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View Full Version : RINO Herd Leader Boehner did us all at the same time



ohland
03-06-2015, 07:55 PM
Folks, I just sent a short note to Paul Ryan, one of the 75 RINOs that voted for the Pelosi DHS bill.

http://getliberty.org/75-republicans-who-voted-to-fund-amnesty/

Reince Priebus, a questionable "Republican" Party Chair (until proof positive, I will use gender neutral) shames all Wisconsin conservatives by remaining quiet on this betrayal.

IMHO, Priebus rode the 2010 conservative wave in Wisconsin. Old truism, screw up, move up. He went from GOP chair in Wisconsin to national. I think he took credit for something that happened in SPITE of his lack of ability.

If someone can prove me wrong on how Reince buddy is the second coming, please do!

I will support actual conservative candidates, like Walker. We may quibble on the purity of his conservatism, but he fights. What I will NOT do, no way no how, is support ANY group that purports to support "Republican" or "conservative" groups as an amorphous whole. Reince buddy promised us that the Republicans were going to do certain things prior to the election, and now we see what our money bought...

RED333
03-06-2015, 08:36 PM
Well I can say not one from TN voted for it, for what that is worth.

DR Owl Creek
03-07-2015, 11:56 AM
My Congressman voted against it. I called his office and thanked him for at least trying to stand up for us, even if he had to buck the establishment and still loose.

Dave

jmort
03-07-2015, 12:08 PM
This makes my blood boil. RINOs and democrats are a toxic mix.

popper
03-07-2015, 06:21 PM
Too much money involved. Bank accounts, personal property, loans, etc. for them to shut it down. Big bank vote.

Wis. Tom
03-08-2015, 10:06 AM
Why don't we draft them out of a large pool, with the names of everyone that wants that job? They are paid the same as what a buck private makes, and stay in the barracks while working, just like our military. Also, pass a law stating no lawyers allowed, we would be better off in this country, and have a better chance, to see alittle common sense, in our govt.

shooter93
03-08-2015, 07:33 PM
And to think......Boehner and the others who voted this way.... were simply the lesser of two evils.

jaystuw
03-09-2015, 02:22 AM
Well heck guys, this vote suggests that we are starting to get along and agree a little bit. Isn't that a good thing that we should be happy about? Jay

texaswoodworker
03-09-2015, 02:33 AM
Well heck guys, this vote suggests that we are starting to get along and agree a little bit. Isn't that a good thing that we should be happy about? Jay

Agreeing about allowing Obama to give millions of criminals who don't belong in this country a free pass? Absolutely not.

freebullet
03-09-2015, 02:34 AM
Well heck guys, this vote suggests that we are starting to get along and agree a little bit. Isn't that a good thing that we should be happy about? Jay

No not really when what they are getting along about is the snuffing of our rights, incomes, privacy, property, and individualism.

ohland
03-09-2015, 10:27 AM
Well heck guys, this vote suggests that we are starting to get along and agree a little bit. Isn't that a good thing that we should be happy about? Jay

Yes, this is the "bipartisianship" that the Democrats and the MSM press have been salivating about for decades. What's mine is mine, what's yours is mine.

adkpete
03-09-2015, 10:34 AM
Don't we have the "pit" for stuff like this?

snuffy
03-09-2015, 10:42 AM
Well, this belongs i the pit, but I'll comment before it gets moved.

If the real republican conservatives could have stood their ground, insisted on the amendment to NOT fund the criminal in chief's illegal amnesty , they would have been labeled "obstructionists"! AGAIN!

No amount of words by conservative pundits like Krautammer, Steve Hayes, or others can be heard anywhere besides Fox snews, because the liberal leaning press won't report the truth!

I don't like Boehner either, OR most of the rest of the rhino's. Led by weak-in-the-knees Reincey Priebus, we have little hope of doing any real changes as long as O'bummer is in office. We already tried to get the pipedream passed, he simply vetoed it.

bhn22
03-09-2015, 10:55 AM
Whatever is going on in Washington these days certainly isn't democracy.

montana_charlie
03-09-2015, 12:21 PM
Well heck guys, this vote suggests that we are starting to get along and agree a little bit. Isn't that a good thing that we should be happy about? Jay
We gave the Republicans a record-breaking majority so they could effectively oppose Obama's actions.
If we wanted somebody who could 'work with Obama', we would have elected Democrats!

Not to be outdone by Boehner's perfidy, McConnell just announced that he will not use the raising of the credit limit to pressure Obama in any way.

CM

Don Purcell
03-09-2015, 12:25 PM
The top "leaders" in both parties are scum. They get to be "leaders" because they are scum. They work both sides of the fence because they are scum.

jmort
03-09-2015, 01:01 PM
The top leaders in the democrat party do exactly what liberals want, they do what their liberal religion requires, and do it enthusiastically. The RINOs bend over and compromise and do what they think is in their own best interest. Huge difference, but yes they are scum, all of them.

jaystuw
03-09-2015, 01:46 PM
I don't think its much of a stretch to suppose all of us on this thread share the same working class background. Now, what I don't understand and am in fact bewildered by, is the overwhelming support for the Republican party here. It seems, on the surface, pretty cut and dry - if you are weathy, support the republicans. A Working class guy? go with the democrats. Not the case here.

A site full of Working class Republicans? I don't get it. There has to be something else going on that I am not seeing. It must be the demographics of the site. A more rural membership base maybe? That might explain it. The value of the democratic party is first realized in the large population centers - the big cities, and then radiates to the outlying areas. So, liberal ideas here on Castboolits, are perhaps a little before their time. Anyway, I wish I could do more to ease your fears and worries, and get across that we, the Democrats, are the champions and defenders of the regular guy. Guys like you. Jay

montana_charlie
03-09-2015, 02:19 PM
I don't think its much of a stretch to suppose all of us on this thread share the same working class background. Now, what I don't understand and am in fact bewildered by, is the overwhelming support for the Republican party here. It seems, on the surface, pretty cut and dry - if you are weathy, support the republicans. A Working class guy? go with the democrats. Not the case here.
To answer in the most fundamental way ...

As working class citizens, we conservatives have been raised, and have lived our lives, under the idea that you make you own way according to your skills and industriousness, and you assist your neighbors when they have trouble.

The Democrats (as a party) want to 'equalize' the standard of living for everybody ... including those who can't, or who refuse, to pull their weight.

As a party, the Republicans go the opposite way.

CM

jaystuw
03-09-2015, 02:31 PM
"As working class citizens, we conservatives have been raised, and have lived our lives, under the idea that you make you own way according to your skills and industriousness, and you assist your neighbors when they have trouble."

Jeez Charlie. That's exactly how I was raised as a working class liberal. How did we get so far apart? Jay

dtknowles
03-09-2015, 02:33 PM
Maybe members here prefer, freedom from government interference, independence, self-reliance and personal responsibility to government dictated collectivism, social welfare overreach, political correctness and overregulation.

Tim

Plate plinker
03-09-2015, 02:40 PM
Maybe members here prefer, freedom from government interference, independence, self-reliance and personal responsibility to government dictated collectivism, social welfare overreach, political correctness and overregulation.

Tim
Yeah that's a great summary Tim that's me anti big government.

Springfield
03-09-2015, 02:42 PM
My father was a working class Democrat. When I asked him once, about 1971, what the 2 parties stood for, he said the Republicans were mostly for the weathy and business owners and the Democrats were for the poor working man. And that the middle class had no one representing them. He said he tried to vote for the guy who seemed the most honest, but that it was difficult. This still seems to be true.

montana_charlie
03-09-2015, 03:33 PM
"As working class citizens, we conservatives have been raised, and have lived our lives, under the idea that you make you own way according to your skills and industriousness, and you assist your neighbors when they have trouble."

Jeez Charlie. That's exactly how I was raised as a working class liberal. How did we get so far apart? Jay
Your party changed ... changed so much that 'change' is all it stands for anymore, and all change must support the change which has preceeded it.
Now, the 'change' is so overpowering even Zell Miller-style Democrats have disappeared.

Ever hear the phrase, 'change we can believe in'?
Has the guy who used that as his campaign tag EVER said anything you can believe?

Garyshome
03-09-2015, 04:18 PM
And to think......Boehner and the others who voted this way.... were simply the lesser of two evils.
Just A bunch of liars saying they are R's when they are really D's. So now it's the D's against We The People, no help from the R's

drinks
03-09-2015, 04:33 PM
I am really having a hard time telling the difference between demonrats and republicraps , what happened to Americans who believe in a constitutional , representative republic?
We are NOT supposed to be a democracy!!!!!!!!!

pressonregardless
03-09-2015, 05:02 PM
I am really having a hard time telling the difference between demonrats and republicraps , what happened to Americans who believe in a constitutional , representative republic?
We are NOT supposed to be a democracy!!!!!!!!!

Thats because there really isn't a difference between the two anymore. We had a constitutional loving candidate run the last two election cycles, but sadly he was unelectable. One thing for sure, had he been elected we would not be in the mess that we are in today. This is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

dtknowles
03-09-2015, 06:05 PM
Thats because there really isn't a difference between the two anymore. We had a constitutional loving candidate run the last two election cycles, but sadly he was unelectable. One thing for sure, had he been elected we would not be in the mess that we are in today. This is going to get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

There is still a difference between the parties. The parties are lead by politicians so they will behave similarly, that is they are most interested in getting reelected, dealing effectively with our issues is only secondary.

On the Gun Control, the parties differ, for the most part.

On spending, the parties differ and Rino's differ from Fiscal Conservatives

On the military, the parties differ unless it come to spending in the districts then they are in agreement.

You can count on most politicians to go for pork, party does not matter.

You can count on most politicians to try to divide us on hot button issues.

Tim

Riverpigusmc
03-09-2015, 06:51 PM
I don't think its much of a stretch to suppose all of us on this thread share the same working class background. Now, what I don't understand and am in fact bewildered by, is the overwhelming support for the Republican party here. It seems, on the surface, pretty cut and dry - if you are weathy, support the republicans. A Working class guy? go with the democrats. Not the case here.

Working class Republicans? I don't get it. There has to be something else going on that I am not seeing. It must be the demographics of the site. A more rural membership base maybe? That might explain it. The value of the democratic party is first realized in the large population centers - the big cities, and then radiates to the outlying areas. So, liberal ideas here on Castboolits, are perhaps a little before their time. Anyway, I wish I could do more to ease your fears and worries, and get across that we, the Democrats, are the champions and defenders of the regular guy. Guys like you. Jay



Utter nonsense. The Democrat party is for the homosexual, the ILLEGAL aliens, the murder of unborn babies, and the theft of money from those who work to buy the votes of those who refuse to work. It's been that way since before Jimmy Carter...the liberals have never supported the working man, and the Democrat party as a whole have not supported the working man since 2 generations ago

texaswoodworker
03-09-2015, 07:07 PM
I don't think its much of a stretch to suppose all of us on this thread share the same working class background. Now, what I don't understand and am in fact bewildered by, is the overwhelming support for the Republican party here. It seems, on the surface, pretty cut and dry - if you are weathy, support the republicans. A Working class guy? go with the democrats. Not the case here.

Working class Republicans? I don't get it. There has to be something else going on that I am not seeing. It must be the demographics of the site. A more rural membership base maybe? That might explain it. The value of the democratic party is first realized in the large population centers - the big cities, and then radiates to the outlying areas. So, liberal ideas here on Castboolits, are perhaps a little before their time. Anyway, I wish I could do more to ease your fears and worries, and get across that we, the Democrats, are the champions and defenders of the regular guy. Guys like you. Jay

The only things the Democrats are champions of are unconstitutional gun laws claiming it's for the children, while at the same time promoting the killing of unborn babies, taxing the hell out of the middle class and making us support the mostly nonworking class. (the middle class is in a lot of pain because of Obama), forcing people to buy a product from company that they may not want/need, and proclaiming that it's free while they once again pickpocket the middle and upper classes, allowing the illegals to come in and trying to give them amnesty because they know that the illegals will vote for them when they become citizens, and race baiting in order to get more votes from the minorities.

The Democrats are NOT defenders of the regular guy. They only want a nanny state so that they can control everyone and force socialist laws on us. You've been living in Commiefornia too long.

mj2evans
03-09-2015, 07:13 PM
Until there are term limits and true accountability none of this is going to change. The Founders never imagined career politicians.

fatnhappy
03-09-2015, 07:17 PM
Well heck guys, this vote suggests that we are starting to get along and agree a little bit. Isn't that a good thing that we should be happy about? Jay

Absolutely. Let's just flush the constitution and sing kumbaya.
I'm a big fan of the Constitution. Not so much of gutless elected sychophants utterly devoid of moral courage.

jmort
03-09-2015, 07:33 PM
"...we, the Democrats, are the champions and defenders of the regular guy."

Liberals are scum, harmful scum. They want to kill babies, take my guns, tax me, regulate me, take from me and give it lowlife layabouts. There is nothing liberals do that is not harmful to good and decent people and liberals are opposed to all that is right, lovely, and worthy. Stop trolling this nonsense. This is a site for gun enthusiasts and liberal scum want to take away my right to keep and bear arms. You help liberal scum do all of this.

ohland
03-09-2015, 07:34 PM
Some questions on how both parties could claim to be trying to do the same thing.

Consider gerrymandering. Incumbent protection, but also making it much more likely that a politician only has to play to their base, and stick it to the smaller groups. Instead of trying to serve most of the constituents, as long as the significant group is pandered to, the pols are a lot less likely to care.

Consider direct election of senators. We are reaping the bitter fruits of that action. Now we have both houses directly elected. Some are the beneficiaries of gerrymandered districts. Some the beneficiaries of national parties. No longer selected by the states, they are not reliable when it comes to standing up for the states. Not talking of pork, I mean keeping the feds out of the state's responsibilities.

:popcorn:

shooter93
03-09-2015, 07:39 PM
Jay...the Democrats quit thinking about the working guy long ago....if they ever did. The collective wealth of the Democrats in Congress surpasses that of the Republicans. Wall Street owns Schumer, Clinton etc. They sell out to the big donors and the working man never enters into the equation. Follow The Constitution....that is all that needs to be done and it is getting to be a dream....not our guidance system.

smokeywolf
03-09-2015, 08:08 PM
Some questions on how both parties could claim to be trying to do the same thing.

Consider gerrymandering. Incumbent protection, but also making it much more likely that a politician only has to play to their base, and stick it to the smaller groups. Instead of trying to serve most of the constituents, as long as the significant group is pandered to, the pols are a lot less likely to care.

Consider direct election of senators. We are reaping the bitter fruits of that action. Now we have both houses directly elected. Some are the beneficiaries of gerrymandered districts. Some the beneficiaries of national parties. No longer selected by the states, they are not reliable when it comes to standing up for the states. Not talking of pork, I mean keeping the feds out of the state's responsibilities.

:popcorn:

Politicians don't work for people who give them votes, they work for people who give them money. And, according to the SCOTUS, bribing politicians and political parties is a Constitutional right protected by the 1st amendment.

smokeywolf

FLYCUTTER
03-09-2015, 08:43 PM
The Demoncratic party was for the working class years ago but was high jacked by liberal communists (progressives). Look at that excrement we have in the white house that is giving away everything and the working class has to pay more for their frivolous spending. They in power want to live high on the hog with vacations every couple of weeks and golf games every day etc. etc. while you have to work for less, and pay more to the king. We want to keep what we work for and not have it stolen from us, and that makes us Republicans, jaystuw.

jaystuw
03-10-2015, 12:29 AM
Hi guys. nice to see everyone has posted much thought provoking stuff. a lot of things to consider. That's good, but I hardly know were to begin to separate the facts from fiction.

To start, Are Dems a scrouge of the earth that moves across the land taking away God, guns, your freedom and leaving in its wake dead babies? I think I'm going to have to go with fiction on that. Are we supporting lowlife layabouts? yeah, that's a fact. Are libs saddling the middle class with that burden, again yes, our hand is forever in your pocket. However, if it makes anyone feel any better, we would much rather be picking the pockets of your social/economic betters, unfortunately, For the time being , those pockets are out of our reach.

And with that I can see the frustration you fellows experience as members of the middle class. We the dems , lacking a way to effectively fully tax the rich, must hit you up in order to fund our seemingly never ending supply of layabouts. And in turn, the rich hustle you with reduced pay and benefits to reward themelves to an ever higher degree for reasons that are not entirely clear to me.

Jeez what a mess, and I havn't even scratched the surface of this stuff. Jay

jmort
03-10-2015, 12:49 AM
"However, if it makes anyone feel any better, we would much rather be picking the pockets of your social/economic betters, unfortunately, For the time being , those pockets are out of our reach."

Do facts ever make into any of your thoughts? Specifically, "rich" people pay all the income taxes as a general matter. How much more of their money do you want? Further, the liberal notion that all of this is a zero sum is not true. Just because there are rich people, is not the reason there are poor people. There is no man made global warming, now that all the lies have been exposed, babies are good and deserve to live, guns are good and useful, taxes are generally regressive, and regulation hurts our economy. There are around 100 million people who are out of the workforce under democrats and close to 50 million on food stamps. The democrats have ran up more debt under the current administration that in all the previous administrations combined, think about it. All records, the bad kind of records. This is a firearms related site, stop trolling for people who want to take away our gun rights. You are so glib about it, and that is disgusting.

fast ronnie
03-10-2015, 01:23 AM
Absolutely. Let's just flush the constitution and sing kumbaya.
I'm a big fan of the Constitution. Not so much of gutless elected sychophants utterly devoid of moral courage.

Not devoid of moral courage: devoid of any morals AT ALL.

texaswoodworker
03-10-2015, 01:56 AM
To start, Are Dems a scrouge of the earth that moves across the land taking away God, guns, your freedom and leaving in its wake dead babies? I think I'm going to have to go with fiction on that.

Sounds like fact to me.

Guns

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/8/obama-ar-15-ammunition-ban-targeted-in-gun-groups-/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/20/assault-weapons-ban_n_2919544.html

http://rense.com/general85/obs.htm

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20140930/california-three-more-anti-gun-bills-signed-into-law-today-and-one-anti-gun-bill-vetoed


"I don't believe people should be allowed to own guns"
-Obama

Freedom

http://rt.com/usa/obama-ndaa-detention-president-288/


introduction of a provision last year that allows the military to detain United States citizens indefinitely without charge or trial for mere suspicions of ties to terrorism. Under the 2012 NDAA’s Sec. 1021, Pres. Obama agreed to give the military the power to arrest and hold Americans without the writ of habeas corpus

http://www.wnd.com/2013/06/1st-amendment-free-zone-facing-high-court-review/


A Massachusetts law that allows the suspension of First Amendment rights to shield women seeking abortions from pro-life activists will face scrutiny from the U.S. Supreme Court.

Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick in 2007 signed the “buffer zone” law that requires a 35-foot “zone” around the entrance of abortion clinics barring anyone who wishes to exercise their constitutional rights to express pro-life opinions.

God

http://blog.adw.org/2010/05/anti-christian-bigotry-in-california-school-district-is-rebuked-by-judge/


n a closed-session meeting held on Monday night, the Poway Unified School District board in San Diego, California, voted to appeal the ruling of Federal District Court Judge Roger T. Benitez that held school officials violated math teacher Bradley Johnson’s constitutional rights when they ordered him to remove two patriotic banners from the walls of his classroom because they referred to “God.” The appeal will be filed in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. Notice, the specific reason they said they wanted the posters removed was because they referred to God. The posters did not endorse a specific denomination or even reference Jesus, they simply mentioned God. Note too, they were all quotes from official US documents such as the Declaration of Independence, the National Seal, and the usual conclusion to any presidential speech: “God bless the United States of America.” Now the School officials SAY that they were concerned about references to God. But where they? As we shall see they allowed other religious references to remain. It would seem that their objections focused only only on religious references to God that emanated from the traditional Judeo-Christian heritage of this Nation’s past.


Are we supporting lowlife layabouts? yeah, that's a fact. Are libs saddling the middle class with that burden, again yes, our hand is forever in your pocket.

And I suggest that the Dems get it OUT of our pocket before they get a big black eye. Your doing nothing but STEALING money that we earned and giving it to people who don't want to work for living.


However, if it makes anyone feel any better, we would much rather be picking the pockets of your social/economic betters, unfortunately, For the time being , those pockets are out of our reach.

Many of them already pay more in a year than you will in a lifetime. Why don't YOU give more instead of electing people to steal it from other under threat of violence and prison.


And with that I can see the frustration you fellows experience as members of the middle class. We the dems , lacking a way to effectively fully tax the rich, must hit you up in order to fund our seemingly never ending supply of layabouts. And in turn, the rich hustle you with reduced pay and benefits to reward themelves to an ever higher degree for reasons that are not entirely clear to me.

Don't try to push off some of the blame to the upper class. The Dems have done several times more to hurt the middle class than the upper class ever could.

popper
03-10-2015, 10:29 AM
"Five Illinois Republican lawmakers are reviving the call for Congress to act on comprehensive immigration reform that includes provisions to expand visas for high skill, low skill and agricultural workers, and a path to citizenship for the undocumented population. At an immigration reform panel discussion (http://thecube.com/event/immigration-summit-474697%22) sponsored by the Illinois Business Immigration Coalition (IBIC), Reps. Aaron Schock (R), Adam Kinzinger (R), Bob Dold (R), Sen. Mark Kirk (R) and Gov. Bruce Rauner (R) remarked that it was time to their colleagues in Congress to move on a comprehensive immigration bill.

“It’s naive to think that the 11 to 12 million people are going to disappear,” Schock said, citing a new right-leaning American Action Forum study (http://americanactionforum.org/research/the-budgetary-and-economic-costs-of-addressing-unauthorized-immigration-alt), which reported that mass deportation of 11 million immigrants would cost the government anywhere between $400 billion and $600 billion. The study found that the impact on real gross domestic product would drop by about $1.6 trillion. "
And they don't know how to handle all the loans & property of those deported. Plus they will give SS to the 'new' citizens?

DR Owl Creek
03-10-2015, 10:55 AM
...

To start, Are Dems a scrouge of the earth that moves across the land taking away God, guns, your freedom and leaving in its wake dead babies? ... Are we supporting lowlife layabouts? yeah, that's a fact. Are libs saddling the middle class with that burden, again yes, our hand is forever in your pocket. However, if it makes anyone feel any better, we would much rather be picking the pockets of your social/economic betters, unfortunately, For the time being , those pockets are out of our reach.

And with that I can see the frustration you fellows experience as members of the middle class. We the dems , lacking a way to effectively fully tax the rich, must hit you up in order to fund our seemingly never ending supply of layabouts. And in turn, the rich hustle you with reduced pay and benefits to reward themelves to an ever higher degree for reasons that are not entirely clear to me...




Jay,

I want to thank you for being honest about what the liberals/progressives/socialists/Marxists/democrats really stand for. From the libs I've had discussions with, I think you should add to your list the fact they want to break down and destroy the middle class, along with the other "so called" rich in our society.

They start by destroying the family with social programs that supposedly eliminate then need for husbands to help raise the children, and replace them with taxpayer funded programs administered through the government. They encourage the elimination of the unborn children to do away with accepting personal responsibility and to supposedly make life for the mother more convenient. They eliminated the need and desire for someone to go out and work to try to raise their standard of living. And, they do all this by taking away the earnings of people who have worked hard for what they have, just to give it to those who won't go out and work for it. Also, when too many people start to understand what's going on, and refuse to go along with it any more, they want to bring in millions of more people who will gladly go along with what they're doing and support their failed agenda, just for a hand-out.

These are the tactics laid out by Karl Marx years ago to break down society. They have been tried by other liberals/progressives/socialists/communists like Lenin/Stalin/Hitler/Mao/Pol Pot, etc. They have never worked out well.

In your earlier post, you asked the question "Isn't it a good thing when the liberal democrats and establishment republicans are starting to get along"? My answer is that it's never a good thing when you compromise with evil!

At least once we can identify what the problem really is, we can take the necessary steps to deal with it.


Dave

sparky45
03-10-2015, 11:15 AM
Well written Doc, and exactly expresses my feelings and beliefs.
I am so sorry "we good people" have allowed this corruption to flourish by idly standing by. My hope is for one of two things to happen with the 2016 election cycle: 1) that Repubs. take a super majority in both Houses of Congress and capture the WH, or, 2) the Dems. accomplish the very same thing. Either way basically the same outcome will be achieved. With Repubs. a reorganization, with Dems a total destruction. We the People have got to get some relief from the greed and corruption. Classic example: How did the Clinton's leave the WH broke and within a few years become Billionaires?

freebullet
03-10-2015, 11:21 AM
Hi guys. nice to see everyone has posted much thought provoking stuff. a lot of things to consider. That's good, but I hardly know were to begin to separate the facts from fiction.

To start, Are Dems a scrouge of the earth that moves across the land taking away God, guns, your freedom and leaving in its wake dead babies? I think I'm going to have to go with fiction on that. Are we supporting lowlife layabouts? yeah, that's a fact. Are libs saddling the middle class with that burden, again yes, our hand is forever in your pocket. However, if it makes anyone feel any better, we would much rather be picking the pockets of your social/economic betters, unfortunately, For the time being , those pockets are out of our reach.

And with that I can see the frustration you fellows experience as members of the middle class. We the dems , lacking a way to effectively fully tax the rich, must hit you up in order to fund our seemingly never ending supply of layabouts. And in turn, the rich hustle you with reduced pay and benefits to reward themelves to an ever higher degree for reasons that are not entirely clear to me.

Jeez what a mess, and I havn't even scratched the surface of this stuff. Jay

Your casting a wide brush stroke there. Prejudice as if your owed something or know anything of the people here. You make #2 to achieve ignore list status for me. It's just not worth reading or listening to that level of.......

It must be great to walk, talk, and live as a liberal. Pretending everything you say makes sense. Nothing is ever your fault. Thinking you have a right to what I work for. Telling me not to prejudge while prejudging me and mine. What a life.

Rainbows, butterflies, and unicorns there you go.

montana_charlie
03-10-2015, 12:24 PM
And with that I can see the frustration you fellows experience as members of the middle class. We the dems , lacking a way to effectively fully tax the rich, must hit you up in order to fund our seemingly never ending supply of layabouts.
In my first reply to you, my remarks about being self-sufficient and industrious prompted you to say that you and I were raised with the same values. Your comment (above) shows where we differ.

I am inclined to work hard enough to provide for my needs, and reach a satisfying-to-me level within the society.
Some with more 'drive' will work to become wealthy, while I am content to be 'comfortable'.

Should I change my goals, and begin the struggle to become 'rich' - joining others who are reaching for that aspect of the American Dream - I don't like to see Democrats plotting to take away most of the riches I hope to acquire in order to (supposedly) feed 'more layabouts with increasingly sumptuous meals'.

I was raised to find my level of satisfaction, and be satisfied.
You want me to envy the rich because I don't want to work hard enough to join them, and you want me to condone taxing them more heavily as 'punishment' for their drive.

The progressives have you convinced to support this program while thinking that this ravaging of the middle class is only temporary.
Actually, those progressives want a 'one level society' where everybody is just above the poverty level and the government has ALL of the revenue ... not just the part currently held by 'the rich'.

CM

therealhitman
03-10-2015, 12:55 PM
God bless Texaswoodworker. The patience to paste that list up is much appreciated. Debate over, there's the facts.
And for the record, I am a true conservative. I do not trust politicians period. DTKnowles hit it on the head...career politicians are an aberration.

dtknowles
03-10-2015, 01:13 PM
.................The progressives have you convinced to support this program while thinking that this ravaging of the middle class is only temporary.
Actually, those progressives want a 'one level society' where everybody is just above the poverty level and the government has ALL of the revenue ... not just the part currently held by 'the rich'.

CM

CM

Think it at a deeper level, the rich want the government to grab control of everything so they (the rich) have it right where they want it, the rich control the government.

Almost all the politicians on both sides of the aisle are rich, are controlled or in cahoots with the rich. The battles between the Democrats and Republicans is really about rich people with one vision fighting the rich people with a different vision. Both sides want the Government to control everything that is the only way they can control everything. The truly rich don't really worry too much about transitory tax rates they can dodge them if they want to but they are much more concerned with power and control. With enough power and control you can write yourself a tax exemption. Why do you think some big corporations don't pay any federal income tax even when or especially when they make huge profits off government contracts.

Don't get this message wrong, this is not me being cynical or angry. It is just a recognition of the state of affairs with the Powers that Be. This systems works because of the adversarial nature of the two party system acting as a check on total dictatorship. As long as they keep fighting against each other we can avoid a totalitarian government. The rich will always run the show but as long as they don't form one all powerful group we can retain some freedom.

Tim

smokeywolf
03-10-2015, 04:20 PM
As far as "comprehensive immigration reform" (amnesty) goes, this is just another "Immigration Reform and Control Act (1986), except instead of Reagan shoving it down our throats its the 0. Republicans are pushing what their wealthy business interests want; lots of low wage labor. Dems want the foreign criminals here to produce future voters. We the taxpayers get stuck with the bill for all those babies.

I don't vote Republican because I think Repubs are more honest than Dems. None of them work for John Q. Taxpayer. I vote for Republicans because they are less likely to hand control of our rights over to the U.N. and less likely to slap a big REVOKED stamp across the 2nd Amendment.

Also, I've seen what a Democrat controlled government can do to a State. I have absolutely zero use for any politician that displays liberal leanings.

smokeywolf

shooter93
03-10-2015, 06:50 PM
Something that has never truly been answered for me.....just what constitutes rich? I hear it all the time. Get the money from them. How do I control how much the rich make? Wouldn't that stop me from wanting to expand my business and hire more people? How much can I may a year before I'm rich?....and have to give that surplus to the government? It fluctuates and it always will. Since the collapse and the bank bail out etc. building is for the most part terrible. My IRA's are worth a fraction of what they were and work is slower than I've ever seen it.....so many of you here could be considered rich to me....sound fair Jay?....are you working?...I'm sure if you are your income is far higher than mine has been.....you're rich....send me the surplus ok?

exile
03-10-2015, 07:05 PM
As one of my favorite authors, John Sandford, said, (paraphrase)

"The one thing you need to understand about the world is that a politician will never get a better job once they are kicked out of office."

exile

longranger
03-10-2015, 07:28 PM
John OBoehner, more need to be said ?

smokeywolf
03-10-2015, 08:46 PM
Something that has never truly been answered for me.....just what constitutes rich? I hear it all the time. Get the money from them. How do I control how much the rich make? Wouldn't that stop me from wanting to expand my business and hire more people? How much can I may a year before I'm rich?....and have to give that surplus to the government? It fluctuates and it always will. Since the collapse and the bank bail out etc. building is for the most part terrible. My IRA's are worth a fraction of what they were and work is slower than I've ever seen it.....so many of you here could be considered rich to me....sound fair Jay?....are you working?...I'm sure if you are your income is far higher than mine has been.....you're rich....send me the surplus ok?

Back in the latter half of the '70s I was responsible for security measures at a very well known jewelry store on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills. I saw people stroll into the store, purchase $25,000.00 worth of jewelry, pay cash and come back the following month and do it again. I would call that rich.

Black woman came in one day with a girl friend, 2 boy friends and 2 bodyguards. Spent about $25K. I asked the store director "where do these people get this kind of money?" He said, "shoot, she spends that much and more in our Paris store every month. She's the daughter of an African diplomat. The people in charge of the Country have all the money; most of it from graft and stolen aid shipments. The people who are supposed to get the aid starve."

smokeywolf

dtknowles
03-10-2015, 09:08 PM
As one of my favorite authors, John Sandford, said, (paraphrase)

"The one thing you need to understand about the world is that a politician will never get a better job once they are kicked out of office."

exile

Yes but the millions they can make in the private sector make up for the loss of power.

Tim

dtknowles
03-10-2015, 09:14 PM
Something that has never truly been answered for me.....just what constitutes rich? I hear it all the time. Get the money from them. How do I control how much the rich make? ...........................

There is Rich and then there is RICH. The Rich they want to tax are professionals and small business owners that make between $300,000 and $1,000,000 a year. Rich to most of us but not rich enough to make much of a political impact. The RICH have hundreds of millions of dollars or Billions and they can buy or sell politicians and politicians jump when they call.

Tim

dtknowles
03-10-2015, 09:47 PM
Something that has never truly been answered for me.....just what constitutes rich? I hear it all the time. Get the money from them. How do I control how much the rich make? Wouldn't that stop me from wanting to expand my business and hire more people? How much can I may a year before I'm rich?....and have to give that surplus to the government? It fluctuates and it always will. Since the collapse and the bank bail out etc. building is for the most part terrible. My IRA's are worth a fraction of what they were and work is slower than I've ever seen it.....so many of you here could be considered rich to me....sound fair Jay?....are you working?...I'm sure if you are your income is far higher than mine has been.....you're rich....send me the surplus ok?


Taxing the Rich and the RICH at a higher level does not keep them from expanding their business. They would still make more just not as much more. They don't expand their businesses just for more profit some of it is for prestige and status. Taxing them at a higher rate does provide them more incentive to find a way to avoid taxes.

I am fortunate in that I am very risk adverse and the last three recessions I had half my 401K in cash and bought in pretty heavily (for me) near the low so the recovery has me well ahead of where I was before the recessions. I am soon going to start rebalancing toward cash as we are working toward the next recession. I am not Rich per my definition but I am a different kind of rich (all lower case) I have to pay the alternative minimum tax (AMT) they have not raised that level to keep up with my income. Business is good here and construction seems to be at a pretty good clip. We have some trouble hiring but that is because we are very selective. We I mean the owner who needs to hire me some help that will replace me when I go part time retired soon. Sorry I can't spare any cash until I die as you never know what will happen between now and then.

Tim

jmort
03-10-2015, 10:00 PM
Clueless. People make more money if you tax them more.??????????? Think how rich they could be if they were taxed at 300%

dtknowles
03-10-2015, 10:31 PM
Clueless. People make more money if you tax them more.??????????? Think how rich they could be if they were taxed at 300%


I understand now why I detect a failure to communicate. I don't think the problem is on my end.

Tim

sparky45
03-11-2015, 09:52 AM
I believe you're wrong again Tim.

jcwit
03-11-2015, 10:06 AM
I think what he's getting at is like a salesman working for a commission. Say the company pays a 8% commission on sales, then they see how much the salesman is making, so the cut the commission to 6%, and the salesman just works harder and makes as much or more, so the company cuts the commission to 4% and so on and so on.

I lived thru this once, Started at 8%, ended up at 1% and gave up, wasn't worth it to get a dollar for every 100 bucks sold.

dtknowles
03-11-2015, 10:08 AM
I believe you're wrong again Tim.

I think your beliefs are wrong. In an earlier post you said "Classic example: How did the Clinton's leave the WH broke and within a few years become Billionaires?" How much do you believe the Clintons are worth, how many billions? I suggest everyone go fact check this so you don't have to take my word for it. The Clintons are not even worth a hundred million forget about billions. Sparky until you can get your facts straight I suggest people take what you say with a grain of salt.

I am not defending the Clintons, they are politicians from the classic mould, that is to say they would do anything to cling to power but I would not use lies or exaggerations to attack them, that would be stooping to their level.

Tim

dtknowles
03-11-2015, 10:22 AM
I think what he's getting at is like a salesman working for a commission. Say the company pays a 8% commission on sales, then they see how much the salesman is making, so the cut the commission to 6%, and the salesman just works harder and makes as much or more, so the company cuts the commission to 4% and so on and so on.

I lived thru this once, Started at 8%, ended up at 1% and gave up, wasn't worth it to get a dollar for every 100 bucks sold.

I was not disputing that increased taxes on the wealthy is a disincentive to business development. I was pointing out that the Rich and the RICH are motivated by more than just profit and wealth. They have more than they can ever spend. Those people usually have a passion for their business and the people that work for them and grow the business for more than just profit. Yes, if you raise the tax rate they will get to keep less of the profit, that means they will be somewhat less inclined to grow the business, maybe? When you grow a business you usually add buildings, equipment and employees, those are all business expenses and higher tax rates would be an incentive to spend the money on growth instead of taking a profit so it can work both ways. I also know that my state offers tax breaks and state funds for business investment.

Tim

dtknowles
03-11-2015, 10:29 AM
I think what he's getting at is like a salesman working for a commission. Say the company pays a 8% commission on sales, then they see how much the salesman is making, so the cut the commission to 6%, and the salesman just works harder and makes as much or more, so the company cuts the commission to 4% and so on and so on.

I lived thru this once, Started at 8%, ended up at 1% and gave up, wasn't worth it to get a dollar for every 100 bucks sold.

I don't know why your employer did that to you. In many businesses the more you sell the higher your commission rate. Like on you first million in sales your commission is 5% on your second million your commission is 6% and so on. That is the proper incentive structure if you want to increase sales without increasing sales staff.

Tim

jonp
03-11-2015, 10:32 AM
Which party has more millionaires in congress and has collected over $400 million more in donor contributions over the last $25yrs than the other party?

Democrats mouth platitudes and rake in the cash. Dont kid yourselfn if its us or Congress Congress will always enrich themselves first.

jcwit
03-11-2015, 10:43 AM
I don't know why your employer did that to you. In many businesses the more you sell the higher your commission rate. Like on you first million in sales your commission is 5% on your second million your commission is 6% and so on. That is the proper incentive structure if you want to increase sales without increasing sales staff.

Tim

You would have to work in the RV industry to understand.

I put up with this for 4 years, stayed with the company for another 10 in a totally different capacity. Purchasing in fact.

DR Owl Creek
03-11-2015, 01:29 PM
I really don't care how much money someone makes, or how much they pay in taxes. My only interest in that would be to learn how they managed to make their money, and then how they managed to keep the government from stealing it from them, so I might be able to do it too if I wanted. The biggest problem isn't how much the "rich" are paying in taxes, it's how much more the government spends beyond that amount, and always will. No matter how much the government takes, it will never be enough.

The whole concept of the "rich", or anyone else for that matter, not paying enough comes from Karl Marx and his communist philosophy of class envy or class warfare. There isn't anything about progressivism or socialism or communism that helps lift anyone up; it's only about dragging everyone else down to the same level. I think everyone should put in more effort to force the government to cut back on it's spending and programs, rather than worrying about who's paying enough.

Instead of buying into Marx' philosophy, think about what's written elsewhere on the subject:
Deuteronomy 5: 21 You shall not covet your neighbor's wife, ... your neighbor's house, ... or anything else that belongs to your neighbor.
Mark 7; 20-23 "That which proceeds out of man is what defiles the man. ... deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. ..."
Romans 1: 28-32 ... being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice, ...

Something to think about anyway...


Dave

ohland
03-11-2015, 05:36 PM
A way to look at lobbying, is to accomplish one or more of three objectives. First, get a tax break or credit, second, exempt your business or group from law or regulation. Lastly, throw your competitors under the bus worse than what you got.

A trifecta is getting YOUR $$$, exempt your business or group from law or regulation, and get your competition to be hit with taxes and regulations...

A polititian exists to give away as little power commensurate with staying in office. Why is congress allowed to exercise such favoritism among lobbyists to begin with?

shooter93
03-11-2015, 06:13 PM
Ok...so I'll only buy 20k worth of jewels a month and I'm not rich right?......or if I have 3 billion I'm RICH but at 2 billion I'm just rich?...what am I at 1 billion. You can't define it. You can pick and arbitrary number and that's all it is. And over time that will fluctuate DOWNWARD. Pick your number and tax the 99%. When you deplete that you'll lower the number and keep doing so until they have it all. Give them more money and they will spend even more than they bring in. History sort of supports that. I'm an advocate of a National sales tax and no income taxes. Not a value added tax...a sales taxes on everything. It's virtually impossible to define rich....pick your number is all it is. Someone on minimum wage would think 50k a year is rich so get it from them.

shoot-n-lead
03-11-2015, 07:04 PM
"...we, the Democrats, are the champions and defenders of the regular guy."

Liberals are scum, harmful scum. They want to kill babies, take my guns, tax me, regulate me, take from me and give it lowlife layabouts. There is nothing liberals do that is not harmful to good and decent people and liberals are opposed to all that is right, lovely, and worthy. Stop trolling this nonsense. This is a site for gun enthusiasts and liberal scum want to take away my right to keep and bear arms. You help liberal scum do all of this.

X 2

He does not even know how ridiculous that post is...