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View Full Version : Outside frozen drain, advice appreciated.



cephas53
03-06-2015, 11:02 AM
Lots of experience here so I'll bounce this one off of you. Drain in a detached garage with no heat is backing up. First snafu with it in a couple decades. Only thing that drains into it is snow, slush and water from two vehicles that park in it. Manually ran a drain snake down it and think it's frozen up a few feet from where it empties underground into a rock pit. Only open access is on the floor of the garage. NWPA everything frozen over pretty darn good. Would be quite a chore to dig down into the pit. Any ideas how to attack it from above? Thanks in advance.

Artful
03-06-2015, 11:29 AM
First I would remove what water I could from the drain - (pump it out)
then I would use a heat gun (metal pipes only) or hair dryer to put
some heat down there and periodically pump out any water it makes
- making sure when using electrical items to be dry conditions and plugged into a GFI.

Omega
03-06-2015, 11:34 AM
If its just a drain, remove any ice on the surface and put some salt/deicer down it.

ascast
03-06-2015, 11:38 AM
my 2 cents - wait it out- if it is in fact frozen, all your going to do it is a temporary fix as it will re-freeze as soon as you take off the heat. You might try a gallon or two of hot water with all the salt it will hold dumped in. It will be above freezing next week, most of the week; they say lol good luck

Garyshome
03-06-2015, 12:05 PM
"remove any ice on the surface and put some salt/deicer down it."
this is what I would try first.

RogerDat
03-06-2015, 12:13 PM
There are assorted electric heat tapes or wires you might install in the drain pipe if the drain was clear, but these will probably be useless IF the rock filled dry well is not deep enough to keep the water coming out of the drain from freezing as it comes into the pit. You would just end up clogged at the point the heat source ends.

Since it has worked ok in the past one has to assume this year it has either been colder (frost line is deeper) or the volume of water from snow melt is greater. Or both. I suppose it is also possible that there was an accumulation of debris in the pipe that kept melt from flowing out promptly into the pit and that allowed it to back up where it could freeze.

dakotashooter2
03-06-2015, 02:35 PM
Froze is froze.... FWIW last year in my neck of the woods we had several water service lines (8' deep,main to home) freeze. It took some of them until late June to thaw out.

wlc
03-06-2015, 04:12 PM
When sewer lines freeze up here we get them steam thawed. I had to do that a couple of years ago. fixed in about 10 minutes. Cost wasn't too bad. The "gizmo" is kinda like a cross between a sewer snake and a steam cleaner.

If your pipes are all metal and you can get access to both ends you can use a welder to thaw them out. Put the positive clamp (the one the rod goes in) on one end and the ground clamp on the other. Set the welder on a lower setting and turn it on. Thaws them out in a few minutes. I had to call a guy out with one of the tow behind welders that had a lot of cable on it one time to thaw the water pipe out to my house. It had been 15-20 below zero for two weeks and then we had a cold snap and temps dropped to 35 below. Water pipe froze up somewhere close to where it comes up under the house. He had it thawed out in about 15 minutes. Hooked one cable to the pipe under the house and the other to the well casing. Luckily we have copper plumbing.

William Yanda
03-06-2015, 04:15 PM
How about those thermal blankets used when pouring concrete at freezing or below, laid over where the line runs would thaw the ground and the frozen drain.

markinalpine
03-06-2015, 04:33 PM
Is the garage floor sloped toward the doors? If so, you might consider one or two of those garage floor covers that have raised ridges on both edges, and use a floor squeegee to push the water out.
Or just cover the drain with a flat mat, and use the squeegee to clear the floor when needed.
Good luck, [smilie=s:
Mark

Plate plinker
03-06-2015, 04:45 PM
How about those thermal blankets used when pouring concrete at freezing or below, laid over where the line runs would thaw the ground and the frozen drain.

no good tried that before to thaw ground for concrete work. once frozen your toast.

Ive used a garden hose with hot water on my drain Of coarse I have hot water in the garage ready to go. Blast out the ice and dirt.

I like the deicer idea or salt water but you need to get it to the ice blockage.

jcwit
03-06-2015, 04:55 PM
I've freed frozen drain lines already by pouring in windshield fluid, the kind used in winter of course.

Multigunner
03-06-2015, 04:56 PM
I can't remember the details but I do remember seeing a plug in heating element shaped like a short cylinder that could be lowered into a frozen drain to thaw it and left plugged in to prevent refreezing.
That was many years ago.

I think something similar has been used to heat engine crankcase oil in sub zero climes.

bangerjim
03-06-2015, 05:25 PM
Two suggestions:

1. bail it out. Add salt to melt ice. bail again. wait for spring. The bitter cold weather you guys are seeing has proably created permafrost! Saw it a lot in IA and MI. You cannot thaw out the EARTH. just wait for spring. (it IS coming!)

2. move to AZ like I did to avoid carp like this. (had similar problmes in IA & MI!)

good luck!

banger0j

GaryN
03-06-2015, 11:14 PM
If you don't want to use salt/deicer pour some rv antifreeze down it.

dragon813gt
03-06-2015, 11:36 PM
If you don't want to use salt/deicer pour some rv antifreeze down it.

This, have to pour it down the trap after using the shower at our cabin. It will take a long time to thaw it out. But as long as it doesn't become to diluted it will thaw it all out.

Plate plinker
03-06-2015, 11:41 PM
For those who don't know RV antifreeze is typically safe for consumption. Its a sugar based antifreeze that will turn to slush at cold temps down around 0*.

waynem34
03-07-2015, 12:43 AM
When its thawed wrap it up good.Done know much about the resistance heaters. Repair, insulate, and cover.

freebullet
03-07-2015, 12:48 AM
Add heat

MaryB
03-07-2015, 12:50 AM
When I needed to dig a satellite dish mount mid winter we would park a car near the spot, take a hose from the tailpipe and run it under a whole bunch of thermal blankets. Would thaw a couple feet in about 8 hours...

Pepe Ray
03-07-2015, 01:17 AM
Hot water under pressure thru a small tube. Garden sprayer for smaller jobs. Cut a 45* angle on the end so flow will be free to cut. Tube will flex to maneuver corners. Must be long enough to reach the outlet. No chemicals- no electricity. You've already got water,whats a little more to end the job.
BTDTGTTS.
Pepe Ray

jonas302
03-07-2015, 01:38 AM
Wait it out I have tried the salt thing on a frozen sewerline with no luck the winter deicer washer fluid sounds like a good idea otherwise jet it with a hot water hose if your dry well is froze up your going have a bigger than you started with though

Duckiller
03-07-2015, 03:09 AM
It was a very cold winter. The ground is probably frozen. If so it is going to take lots of heat to thaw it out. Bail out any standing water then try a steam cleaner to heat up the surrounding soil. You also have to thaw out your gravel drain. Water in it is also probably frozen and won't drain properly. Do what ever is necessary to survive until June. By then the permafrost will have gone away and everything should work. If you think you are going to have more winters like this one you may want to put some heat tape in the drain and the gravel drain for next winter.

Mk42gunner
03-07-2015, 05:00 AM
Not a real fast fix, but you can build an insulating "blanket" over the frozen spot and let the heat in the ground thaw pipes. If you have snow on the ground, increase the layer until it is about two or three feet deep. I have seen this work when we needed to use a backhoe to dig sewer lines in the winter.

Another option is to stack a layer or two of hay bales over the area, if you have them and are in the country.

Robert

imashooter2
03-07-2015, 09:35 AM
When I needed to dig a satellite dish mount mid winter we would park a car near the spot, take a hose from the tailpipe and run it under a whole bunch of thermal blankets. Would thaw a couple feet in about 8 hours...


Simple, economical... just push the hose down the drain and the hot exhaust will melt through any blockage and keep going into the rock pit to avoid refreezing further down the line. Great suggestion!

aiken
03-07-2015, 10:10 AM
If it not to far to the ice take the gun off a pressure washer and put a zero tip directly on the hose(or add a pressure washer hose after the gun) and push it down the drain to the obstruction, fire up the pressure washer and keep pushing it in and it will cut through the ice like butter. I have a sewer cleaning tip with one jet out the front and four angled backwards to propel itself forward on a 50' pressure washer hose that works very well, I think the tip was about 25.00, really does a great job cleaning drains.

WILCO
03-07-2015, 10:17 AM
Any ideas how to attack it from above? Thanks in advance.

Call a plumber. Go from there. http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/yes/two-thumbs-up-smiley-emoticon.gif (http://www.sherv.net/thumbs-emoticon-2718.html)

Artful
03-07-2015, 12:45 PM
Simple, economical... just push the hose down the drain and the hot exhaust will melt through any blockage and keep going into the rock pit to avoid refreezing further down the line. Great suggestion!

I like this Auto exhaust idea - just watch out for carbonmonoxide/dioxide exposure.

cephas53
03-07-2015, 08:19 PM
Thanks all. Would like to report success. Used the exhaust off a small diesel tractor for about three hours. Followed up with some windshield fluid and it's draining like a champ. A plumber would be the logical solution but I like doing things myself, and put hiring one at the same level as buying factory ammo. Have a good one! Time for a cold one.

MT Gianni
03-07-2015, 11:44 PM
A lot of those might not be hooked to the sewer if it is a outside garage. It might be just a pipe to gravel with frozen ground around it. If that's the case you are stuck til the thaw. Sewer lines put out heat and rarely freeze.

Artful
03-08-2015, 02:08 AM
congratulations - now figure out how to keep it from happening again.

jonas302
03-08-2015, 12:15 PM
I will have to remember that one did you pump out first? What kind of hose did you hook to the tractor?

cephas53
03-08-2015, 01:23 PM
Pumped out as much as I could. Had some leftover pieces of generic auto heater hose. A 1" section went into the exhaust then a small section of 5/8" went into it and finally a section of a cut up garden hose fed into the drain. I had to secure the hose coming out of the exhaust to the front axle with some duct tape as vibrations would spit it out. This is on a late model that has the exhaust pipe exiting out the lower front corner of the tractor. Never had a problem before and this was a relatively ez fix. Mileage probably varies with each individual circumstance.

10x
03-08-2015, 07:03 PM
We live in the land of frozen sewer pump outs.
I have a 40 pound propane tank with the valve removed a 3/4 nipple installed and a Tee with a valve on one leg and open to 100 feet of good 3/8 air hose on the other.
Open valve, fill tank 3/4 full with water, close valve, make sure air hose is clear of obstruction. Once steam comes of the end of the air hose feed it down the drain.
It will melt ice at a foot a minute when it is working well.
Never under any circumstances put a valve or block the air hose - you will blow it up.

cephas53
03-10-2015, 10:38 AM
10x, need some help visualizing your set up. How are you making steam?

Artful
03-10-2015, 08:24 PM
The old fashion way
https://www.gec-bsa.org/fs/page/001019/steamer72.jpg

Col4570
03-12-2015, 03:33 AM
A friend at the Clubs neighbour,poured Black Powder down the Drain and set it off.As expected the damage repair was very costly.

10x
03-12-2015, 06:22 AM
10x, need some help visualizing your set up. How are you making steam?


The old fashion way
https://www.gec-bsa.org/fs/page/001019/steamer72.jpg

Remove the valve from a 20 or 30 or 40 lb propane tank.
get a 3/4 bushing that will fit the where the valve was and the male end of a 3/8 air line fitting.
Get rubber 3/8 air line.
Fill propane tank 3/4 full with water, screw in 3/4 bushing where the valve used to be, Screw in the 3/8 air line (about 10 feet longer than the line you need to thaw)
Heat propane tank to boiling.

Alternative hookup a 3/4" bushing in the propane tank with a 3/4" Tee - one leg of the Tee goes to the air line, the other to a valve that you can open to fill the propane tank with water when it runs dry.
At no time is the flow to the 3/8 air line closed or restricted. Steam is a mighty force and will blow up a propane tank if there is a restriction.