Paper Patching for .35's

[Marlin Junky]

I was wondering how feasible the following would be:

1) Use RCBS 35-250 to cast bullets out of stick-on WW metal.

2) Have Lee make a .350" push through sizer to remove the driving bands

3) Shoot patched bullets from a 12" twist .350RM

Any input?

My feeling is that the GC shank would probably end up lop-sided after running the bullets through the .350" PT die because they'll probably measure .341"-.342" on the GC shank as cast.

MJ

[Larry Gibson]

MJ

"My feeling is that the GC shank would probably end up lop-sided after running the bullets through the .350" PT die because they'll probably measure .341"-.342" on the GC shank as cast."

Maybe not, I've had really good results with concitricity of the GC shank by pushing the bullet through the sizer base first. With that soft of alloy you might have to do it in steps; say .357...354 and then 350. A good lanolin spray on lube helps also. It is washed off easily when sizing is done. Might need another step in there but sounds feasable to me.

Larry Gibson

[Marlin Junky]

Larry,

Sizing down to .350" in a couple steps sounds logical, but not turning the bullet around and pushing by the much more narrow nose. After checking the price of a new RCBS 35-250 at Midway, I think a better decision would be to have a custom mold made.

Which brings us to:

What attributes are most desirable for a paper patch mold?

MJ

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

MJ, I have to size a Rapine 32-40 195gr boolit down .0045, when I run them thru a Lee style sizer nose first, I can see that the lube grooves on one side get wiped thinner than the other. I tried them base first and the problem went away, much more concentric, I made a punch to fit the nose (filled with PC-7 epoxy), and now all is happy, the nose is perfect!
Nick

[rockrat]

What about using the 348win boolit that is going on with the group buy? Supposed to throw a .351" boolit, but only 225gr.

[Bullshop]

rockrat
Yup that works out perty good. We PP a couple 250gn ers for 348 up to work in a 35 Whelen imp.
BIC/BS

[Marlin Junky]

What about using the 348win boolit that is going on with the group buy? Supposed to throw a .351" boolit, but only 225gr.

In theory that sounds good and I would probably participate in this GB if the ogive started right at the forward band. It just looks like there's too much bore diameter (.340", I would imagine) nose hanging out there for me to use this design as a .35 cal PP bullet. I would also prefer at least 25 more grains too.

Thanks for the post though... I appreciate your interest.

MJ

[jhalcott]

Consider wrapping the 357/8 bullet with 2 wraps of Teflon tape, run it thru the 358 die and load it in your 35 whelen cases. I have done this with the 358318 (245grain) bullet and had better than good results.

[Marlin Junky]

Consider wrapping the 357/8 bullet with 2 wraps of Teflon tape, run it thru the 358 die and load it in your 35 whelen cases. I have done this with the 358318 (245grain) bullet and had better than good results.

What hardness should the lead be? Teflon tape is pretty elastic. How do I know when I've stretched the tape just right? All the teflon tape I've seen is for pipe joints and only about 1/2" wide.

MJ

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I've been patching .358 diameter cast pistol bullets for quite some time now. A soft alloy is the trick.

I just cast, size, patch, size again. The first sizing can be omitted but it does reduce the number of torn patches from maybe 10% to about nil. The first sizing I use a .356" Lee sizing die just to get the bullet as small as possible. Then after patching I size to .358".

If I skip the .356" initial sizing abotu 10% of the patched bullets rip during the final sizing. This is no big deal since I then just re-patch the same bullet and it invariably survives the next trip through the die.

The softer lead may not tolerate .350 RM acceleration forces very well, also a .350 RM might be pushing the velocity limits of a 250 grain soft lead bullet (especially if you get another 100 fps or so with PP).

I've been shooting a 280 grain PP bullet out of a .35 Whelen. That bullet comes from a .350 mold so I use WW alloy and can drive it well past 2200 fps. In fact at 2200 fps the primers are showing signs of too low pressure. Some flatten, some don't which seems to me like the pressures are eratic. Up around 2400 fps the primers begin to look more consistant and groups tighten up. By flattened primers I don't mean excessively flat - just factory ammo flat.

[jhalcott]

They do make a 3/4" size of teflon pipe tape,I have a couple rolls. I make a template like you do with regular paper. I don't try to"stretch" it too much. It irons in to the grooves quite well when you size them.I use a .360 die in a Lee push thru. For this I use an alloy about 12 to 13 BHN or slightly softer.Not below 10 BHN though.

[Marlin Junky]

Thanks for the input but this is not going anywhere until I can find a mold and/or a swagging die that I can use in a reloading press to make .350" to .352" boolits. When I pick up my .350 Ruger from my FFL guy, I'll check the bore and groove diameters and maybe order a push through die from Lee to match the .350's bore diameter. I'd like to start by using soft lead cast with my SAECO #352 mold. I measured some RCBS 35-250's that I cast with clip-on WW metal in a loaner mold and they measure .3505" on the nose so I would imagine 35-250 might have a problem casting fat enough noses with soft lead. I don't know why the .350 Magnum wouldn't work with paper patched bullets if the .35 Whelen does. The .350 only holds a grain or two more water than the basic .35 Whelen.

MJ

[yeahbub]

Marlin Junky, I've not patched .35s much, but I'll relate the method I use for my Marlin .375Win. Apparently, Black Jaque uses nearly the same method and, from his description, gets similar results. I cast the Lyman 375248 of a hardness from air cooled WW down to 8 Br, resulting in an as-cast diameter of .379-.380. I size them while soft (within 24 hours) to .375 and wet patch with two wraps of 100% rag drafting vellum extending from 1/8" up the ogive to 1/2" below the heel so I have enough to twist a decent tail. I cut my patches out of strips cut from the end of an E-size sheet and a length approx .080 short of the ends meeting and roll the wet patch onto the boolit between a cork-backed ruler and a piece of rubber gasket material to stretch them onto the boolit and get the ends to meet perfectly every time. (Strips cut from the end of the E-size sheet have a good bit of stretch available and when rolled on make for a patch which stays tight.) When they are dry, the tails are tightened up with pliers and trimmed off, they get a wrap of 1/2" teflon tape stretched on with a 1/8" or so overlap at the ends and even with the edge of the paper on the ogive. Another wrap goes on abutting the edge of the first and overlapping the heel of the boolit. With the tape smoothed on, I anoint the outside of the tape with a smear of soft bullet lube and size it in a .380 dia size die. The teflon will get ironed into the paper and the paper ironed into the boolit, resulting in what looks like a hard white jacket. This seems like a great deal of sizing, and it is, but this technique gives me 2.5" at 100 yds in my micro-groove barrel. With jacketed, I get 4" and cast boolit accuracy with the same boolit conventionally lubed is more of a shotgun pattern. IIRC, the twist in the Marlin .375s is 1 in 10", so rotational acceleration is fairly brisk, but this seems to not be a problem.

Regarding sizing the boolit before patching and the concern of sizing off-center, my inclination would be to apply a bit of soft lube with my fingers and give it a try. A little can help a lot. It will have to be removed before patching, but wiping with a paper towel or a soak in a solvent will take care of that.

In using a soft alloy like stick-on's, the only concern I'd have is whether the ogive profile is short and beefy enough to not clinch off-center under accelration and create a boolit with an off-center nose or collapsing enough to cause lead to contact the barrel beyond the end of the patch.