9mm bulge

[SINGLE_SHOT]

I am reloading 9mm For a cz75 bd.
Lee 120tc@1.050coal
Does not pass plunk test or go all the way into Wilson max cartridge gauge.
I painted loaded cases with Sharpe and found just towards bottom of case it is barely bulged, not enough to see without marker. Not enough to feel. Just below where resizing die sizes it. I was using fcd but that was sizing bullets. Have tried Lee sizer and Lyman, although only using lee shell plate holder. I am tempted to shave some metal off sizing die so it sizes deeper but idk if that's okay.
Not really sure what to do now.

[Bonz]

I had an issue where the base of the bullet was bulging out the case where the taper begins for the web of the brass. I was forced to seat the projectile that deep so that it would chamber.

[SINGLE_SHOT]

It's not at the base of the bullet but just before extractor groove. I guess you could call it

[bhn22]

Your dies are not sizing the case fully. Are you loading on a progressive press, or a single stage? Many of todays die sets have an unnecessarily large chamfer at the entrance to make the dies work "faster" in progressive presses. If you have an oversized chamber, like so many 9mms do, you'll develop a "belt" just above the extractor groove. It won't be obvious until you fire and size cases a couple of times. You may want to re-examine how your sizing die is set. To double check this, set your sizing die up in a single stage press and adjust it until the press "cams over" center. This is the point of maximum case sizing with your dies. If the base bulge doesn't go away, you may need a different sizing die. I search the world, buying early Pacific Durachrome, RCBS, and other pre-progressive press dies. They generally only have a minimal chamfer at the die entrance. LEE now offers a "bulge buster" kit for 9mm as well http://leeprecision.com/bulge-buster-kit.html, which requires the purchase of the larger diameter 9mm Makarov sizing die. Brass with bulged bases is often referred to as "Glocked" brass, in honor of the poster child of loose, unsupported chambers.

[groovy mike]

I am reloading 9mm For a cz75 bd.
Lee 120tc@1.050coal
Does not pass plunk test or go all the way into Wilson max cartridge gauge.
I painted loaded cases with Sharpe and found just towards bottom of case it is barely bulged, not enough to see without marker. Not enough to feel. Just below where resizing die sizes it. I was using fcd but that was sizing bullets. Have tried Lee sizer and Lyman, although only using lee shell plate holder. I am tempted to shave some metal off sizing die so it sizes deeper but idk if that's okay.
Not really sure what to do now.

If it will cahmber and function in your gun, why worry about it?
Sounds like your sizeing die is set too high. Can you just lower it?

[45-70 Chevroner]

I think you are compressing the powder charge and that is what's bulging the case, I would look at changing powders, maybe a faster powder or a lighter boolit. You don't mention what load or boolit weight you are using.
An easy way to check if you are compressing the powder is to check the diameter after sizing the case then check the diameter after loading it. Buy the the way, a little powder compression is ok but you have to be careful as to much will bulge the case right where you found the bulge.. 45-70 Chevroner.

[MtGun44]

See if you can borrow another 9mm sizer and size a couple of cases. Are these
range pickup or where they fired only in your gun?

The chamfer being too deep sounds like a real possibility.

You are sure that there isn't any throat or taper crimp involvement here?
I would start by tightening the taper crimp a bit and see if
that helps, and also seating the boolit deeper - all in a dummy round,
to see of that will pass the plunk test.

Will an empty case that has been ONLY full length size drop into
the chamber fully?

[SINGLE_SHOT]

I tried Lee and Lyman dies I adjusted for small brass quantity where die is stopping ram to no avail. Range pickup brass. I think I tried empty brass but will have to recheck tonight

[Shiloh]

Does a sized, unloaded case pass the plunk test??

Shiloh

[runfiverun]

the ram is hitting the shell holder when you set up the die but is it hitting when you have a case in there?
usually not and you have to turn the die down another 1/4 turn or so.

[bdoyle]

I never had any trouble with range brass until I got a SA range officer in 9mm. It has a very tight chamber but factory brass functions fine. I picked up a lee 9mm bulge buster that uses a makarov factory crimp die. It is an extra step but I usually only use it on range brass. Pretty sure it sizes to .392 but I can't remember exactly. I can check for sure if anyone needs the exact dimension.
Brian

[11B-101ABN]

bdoyle is correct, get a Lee Bulge Buster Kit, and a 9mm Makarov Factory Crimp Die. The Mak die sizes to .392 which allows you to use a push-through sizer. The normal 9mm Luger die does not go low enough to catch your bulge when using a shell holder. The bulge buster is not caliber specific, so it works with both.40 and .45 ACP factory crimp dies also. You should notice a big drop in your plunk-test failures.

[Bullwolf]

Rather than trimming the bottom off the die itself, I just purchase an inexpensive Lee shell holder for this, and shave it thinner using a belt sander. The trimmed shell holder will often eliminate a mild bottom of the case bulge. When I have to remove metal, I prefer to do it to the least expensive part first. That being said, I have also taken a little bit off the bottom of a few dies.

Be aware if you go too thin doing this to a shell holder, you can lose some of your shell holder strength and grip on the case rim.

Steel sizing dies seem to do this less than carbide dies, and some dies have more of a bevel or chamfer on the bottom opening - The beveled dies seem to do this sort of thing more, since you cant lower them down far enough to get to the base of the brass. The bevel, or chamfer at the bottom of dies is more forgiving for use with progressive presses.

If my carbide sizing dies do this mildly, I can usually eliminate it entirely by using an old steel sizing die and case lube. Sometimes I have to resort to using the shaved shell holder as well as the steel dies.

This is why folks suggest trying out few different dies. If the bulge is almost unnoticeable, and it plunks in your gun, but not the Wilson case gauge, I wouldn't worry about it at all, especially if you need to blacken a case to spot it.

If the bulge is really severe you can either bulge bust it with a push through die kit (takes lots of effort with the tapered 9mm case when you get to the head) or throw out the case. I typically scrap any case if I can easily see a visible bulge rather than taking a chance on it. I've got a lot of 9mm brass and have little problem finding it.


- Bullwolf

[SINGLE_SHOT]

132634
Okay heres the pic. I tried empty brass and it passes plunk test after sizing.
Round shown has no powder inside so that eliminates compressed powder. Caliper measures .390 on ridge.
I covered in sharpe and forced round into wilson max cartridge gauge. Hammering with sharpee.

[Petrol & Powder]

"Rather than trimming the bottom off the die itself, I just purchase an inexpensive Lee shell holder for this, and shave it thinner using a belt sander. The trimmed shell holder will often eliminate a mild bottom of the case bulge. When I have to remove metal, I prefer to do it to the least expensive part first...."

/\ There's some sound advice !
screw up the cheap stuff first!!!

All kidding aside, a lot of dies have chamfers that are excessive. I've always had good service from RCBS and Redding.
Adjusting the die so that it is as close to the ram as possible without damaging it is also key.

Good luck

[Bullwolf]

132634
Okay heres the pic. I tried empty brass and it passes plunk test after sizing.
Round shown has no powder inside so that eliminates compressed powder. Caliper measures .390 on ridge.
I covered in sharpe and forced round into wilson max cartridge gauge. Hammering with sharpee.


I've seen a few other solutions to your problem besides the ones that have already been mentioned.

Using the stuff you already have:



Get a lee carbide factory crimp die.
Put it in a toolhead by itself.
Unscrew the crimp stem.
It will base size the 9mm and you should be good to go.


I have also seen folks go much farther than this.

You can go full push through using a Lee bulge buster kit, but as I said previously 9mm cases, even lubed are a real bear to push the case head all the way through a carbide die.

Basically if you don't know what a bulge buster is, you are pushing the brass all the way through a size die w using a Lee size spud insert on the ram of the press.

http://www.titanreloading.com/image/data/D2g/90487_2.jpg

Link to Titan Reloading's Lee bulge buster kits below, and as noted in the link below

For full push through bulge busting...
NOTE: 9mm cases are not able to be used in the Bulge Buster with a 9mm Factory Crimp Die because it has a slightly tapered case and the rim is not completely flush with the case. To get the 9mm Luger to work with the Bulge Buster Kit, a 9mm Makakarov Factory Crimp die is needed.

http://www.titanreloading.com/lee-bulge-buster-kit?filter_name=bulge%20bust

Here's a creative think outside the box solution, with a huge hassle factor that I read about here. Sadly I can't easily find it with a search to credit the original author.

1. Remove the shell holder from your press ram.
2. Place a LUBED and empty 9mm case on the top of your press ram.
3. Ease it up into the sizing die until your base bulge is re-sized.
4. Using a brass rod, or wood dowel and a rubber mallet, tap the 9mm brass back out of the die.

Presto its really full length resized now, and ready to be re loaded.

Honestly I wouldn't ever go through all that trouble for 1 piece of 9mm brass. Knowing it's an option however is a good thing.


- Bullwolf

[country gent]

Is the bright ring 1/8" from the case heads face? if so the dies may have more radious than is needed. Carbide dies have sometimes have a heavier radious to combat the brittle nature of the material. Another is that newer dies have a heavier radious to help with progressive machines. Some can be taken from the bottom of the die and help with this. Another is the bulge buster from Lee. You also might try sizing off the press in a solider machine then going to the other. Range brass can be fired thru pistols with larger or unsupported chambers lightly bulging cases in this area also.

[SINGLE_SHOT]

Okay im confused now.
If i take a piece of brass(no powder) and size it it plunks. If i take that same piece of brass and load bullet in it and crimp it will not and gets that weird belt on it. Its not just a few pieces of brass its every one. I understand the concept of the bulge buster but i am confused on if that will actually help because i dont have this problem before loading.
Could it be overcrimping causing case to buckle? I have reduced crimp to the point where i can barely feel it and i think only thing really holding bullet from seating deeper is that bullet it cast and larger than the case.
Yes belt is about .350 a hair over 1/8 from case rim.

[Latheman]

Is it possible your bullets are out of round? Im sorry if I didn't see but did you size them to your barrels groove diameter ? I was having the same problem using lee dies. What I did was measure a factory loaded round and tried to replicate those dimensions. It turned out I was over crimping my loads causing a slight bulge just below where the bullet stopped. I backed out my seating die from the lockring and my loaded bullets started passing the pluck test. Just some ideas.

[Iron Mike Golf]

When does the bulge occur? During case mouth expansion or boolit seating? The case wall of the 9mm tapers thinner as you get to the case mouth. If your expander (like a 38 Spl/357 Mag expander) is too long, it can cause the case to "accordion". Happens to 380 auto, too.

So, take a sized case and expand the mouth. Then try the plunk test. If it fails, you need a shorter expander.

[SINGLE_SHOT]

Bullets are sized to 357 in Lyman sizer. I did shim mold to get fat enough bullets. More tests when I get back home

[NY_Treeguy]

I had the same problems when I got a bunch of 1x fired from a friend. A guy at the LGS recommended an EGW sizing die. Works great and has less of a throat. Removes the bulge every time. I had the same bulge that your pic shows and had problems chambering in a Hi-Point. Sold the rifle but still use the die.

[SINGLE_SHOT]

I kinda did as iron mike said and backed off expander die and viola it passes plunk test. Still slight resistance in max case gauge but I can live with that. Thank you everyone for responses.

[gloob]

I am tempted to shave some metal off sizing die so it sizes deeper but idk if that's okay.
Not really sure what to do now.
You can take a little off the die, but not very much. The carbide ring can fall out, then you're screwed. You might want to start on the shellholder, first.

If that doesn't work, you can apparently debulge 9mm cases by passing them through the 9mm MAK FCD die with the crimp ring removed.