Unexpected results from .44 magnum

[waksupi]

I didn't really expect these results. I suspect a good cast bullet would have went deeper.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=blGNsJl7Ku8

[DougGuy]

I saw that, I was going to guess 4! Gf asked how many it would go through and I said depends on what bullet he uses. I figured they would use a 180gr but he said it was a 250gr bullet, looked like a jacketed soft hollowpoint.

Maybe one of our members will dupe the same experiment with a 7 1/2" Ruger, Lee 310 RF boolit in 50/50+2% over 21.5gr H110. I don't think they have enough balloons to catch one of these. I'm thinking more like 10 gal milk jugs in a row and still go through all of them.
______________________________________________

O/T from Waksupi's post, but dead on for the topic if the thread, "Unexpected results from .44 magnum"

This was a factory Remington High Velocity 240gr LSWC GC hunting boolit, I fired it into a can of compressed air like you use to blow out cameras, computers, etc, same size as a 1lb can of freon, very high pressure can, sitting on a big oak tree trunk that had fallen. From a distance of 35yds, hit the can dead center and it went about 40' in the air. Went to look at the can, it was split vertically and opened up but showed no exit! There to the right I saw a glint that caught my eye, and it was the boolit I had JUST fired, laying on the log like it fell out of someone's pocket! I picked it up, touched it to my face, yep still a little warm, no way it was not the boolit I just fired.

The pressure in the can, had STOPPED this .44 magnum boolit in full charge! It split the front of the can, and stopped right there by the rush of high pressure air exiting the can.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Guns/24077625-e437-4a26-bb76-89b6de809f4c_zps9j9wifg8.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Guns/24077625-e437-4a26-bb76-89b6de809f4c_zps9j9wifg8.jpg.html)

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Guns/cb275087-4d8d-4d1d-b491-2e184eb728c9_zpsnqcozcnb.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Guns/cb275087-4d8d-4d1d-b491-2e184eb728c9_zpsnqcozcnb.jpg.html)

[rking22]

Freeze it at 2:12 , bullet is below #5. I also think a 310 would have cleaned the table :)

[MtGun44]

HPs do that. SWCs do not.

This is why I always mention that you will never recover a Keith 250 gr in .44 Mag shooting
deer or elk if velocity is 1000 fps or higher.

[45coltnut]

I'm planning a similar experiment with a 45-70 as soon as weather breaks. Will be testing Barnes solid copper HP vs cast boolits with FN, cup point and deep HP. I'm planning 10 water jugs minimum with a stack of water soaked phone books. Can't wait :)

I guess after watching this, I too will have to include a jacketed soft point into the testing.

[DougGuy]

I guess after watching this, I too will have to include a jacketed soft point into the testing.

Do it with a Lee C452-300-RF cast 50/50+2% over 22.0gr H110/W296 :bigsmyl2:

[rking22]

Several years ago I had some Rem 300 gr 45 70 bullets loaded to Ruger levels for a #1(as to why I did that, I have no idea). They made a grapefruit size hole in a wet clay bank, something like 3 inches of penetration! 250 gr cast from a smith696 went over 9 inches into the same bank the same day.

[MT Gianni]

Freeze it at 2:12 , bullet is below #5. I also think a 310 would have cleaned the table :)
Below, but contained by balloon #4.

[osteodoc08]

This mimics the "swimming pool" test done on myth busters where they evaluate how deep a bullet penetrates the surface. The faster it expands the shallower it went with any significant energy.

[pworley1]

I don't remember all the details of this (it was too long ago) but read about some testers firing various modern rifles and pistols into a swimming pool with most everything stopping after 3 feet or less. Then they fired an old 44 walker loaded with black powder and a round ball and the thing bounced off the bottom.

[GhostHawk]

Lord haven't any of you guys ever tried to shoot a fish? ROFLMAO.

A he used BIG balloons and under filled them, not stretched. That lets them expand in the direction of travel.
They also don't pop and shatter at the first touch. Makes a big difference.

B Most of the energy goes in the first 6". Impact with the surface can create a LOT of turbulence, turns all that water into spray, but that acts like a drag. I bet a sharp pointed arrow going 1/5 the speed would go through more balloons. Lower speed, less drag, less turbulence, less energy released.

C As far as people are concerned, we are the first balloon, soft tissue tends to take an incredible amount of damage. Higher speed = greater shock damage, slower but heavier = greater penitration. Either way with a chest shot our lungs are like that first balloon, they are shattered, rupture blood vessels, etc. That is why a shot in the boiler room almost always works. It just sometimes takes creatures a few seconds to realise they are dead.

[bhn22]

Now, let's try it again. But with my ammo!

[Outpost75]

A bullet which expands stops like a parachute. A solid, flat-nosed bullet is more effective than a JHP on heavy game. A blackpowder. 44-40 will exit a 30" block of gelatin when a .44 Mag. JHP won't do more than 15-18".

[sw282]

Bullet construction makes ALL the difference.. l remember buying a box of NORMA 44 Mag ammo in the late 70s that would shoot thru virtually anything. These were 240gr jsp rounds and the jacket material was Steel. That's right .STEEL !! l remember trying to recover one of those bullets by shooting into the side of a steel drum full of water. The bullet went all the way thru that drum..

[Char-Gar]

Water when stuck by a speeding object has a resistance about like hitting concrete. If you don't believe me, just jump off a high bridge into some water. Wait, better yet fill your bathtub and hit it with the palm of your hand as hard as you can. Be aware, it will smart a bunch!

[44man]

Might need 20 balloons to stop my Lee hard cast or my 330 gr.
My 420 gr .475 boolit made it through 17 one gal jugs in a straight line and blew four sky high, split number 5.
I quit using the 240 XTP's because I could not get them through deer. No blood trails!
I need to gather 20 or more jugs to try the .500 JRH.

[Tatume]

I'm a little curious about the claimed velocity for the 250 grain bullet. Up to 1800 fps from a S&W revolver?

[44man]

I'm a little curious about the claimed velocity for the 250 grain bullet. Up to 1800 fps from a S&W revolver?
Not to be!

[Larry Gibson]

Can't say I hunt a lot of water filled balloons but I do hunt deer and pigs with handguns and have shot a few goats too with the .44 Magnum using JSPs, JHPs, hard cast SWCs and softer cast HPs. I've never had insufficient penetration with any of them with and frontal, broadside or raking shot. I suppose if was prone to Texas heart shots, which I am not, there may have been a problem on a large deer or pig with penetration. Some of the bullets kill quicker than the others, especially the quicker expanding ones, with heart/lung shots which is my preference for a shot and for putting the animal down quickly.

Not saying a hard cast SWC or WFN out of the .44 Magnum won't effectively kill game because I have used them and would again. Then again I'm not saying the faster expanding SPs and HPs won't effectively kill game either because they do and are my preference. With cast bullets choosing the correct alloy given the bullet weight and HP design for the game intended at the impact velocity expected is necessary for best results. It's easy enough to figure out and not hard. These days I've gone away from the HP'd 429244 to the 429640 Devastator for use in my .44s. Cast of 1-20, 1-16 or COWWs + 2% tin mixed 50/50 with lead I use them in 4, 6, 6 1/2 barreled revolvers, a Contender and have used them in a 16" Carbine. They weight about 270 gr and run from 1200 - 1650 fps in those guns. The Devastator gives all the penetration needed (I've yet to not have complete through and through) and the expansion as evidenced by the wound channels was excellent giving a quick kill.

Such videos only prove the ignorance of whomever made the video (the claim of "1500 to 1800 fps with a 250 gr bullet" from a S&W handgun, "the most powerful handgun on the planet") and the fact that you can kill at least 4 water balloons with one shot...........other than that...........was there a point?

Larry Gibson

[Don Purcell]

Last week I put two NOE .44 Keith hollowpoints thru 4 detergent jugs full of water from around 20 yards. First bullet was 50% pure lead and wheelweight loaded with 10 grains Unique out of a 4 inch M-29. Went thru all four jugs and found it under the snow. Bullet weight 240 grains before shot and 151 grains after with nose gone from crimp groove forward. Second shot with same load but bullet at 14 Brinell hardness and 235 grain. Went thru all four jugs not recovered. Most of the noses from both bullets found in first jug.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Water when stuck by a speeding object has a resistance about like hitting concrete. If you don't believe me, just jump off a high bridge into some water. Wait, better yet fill your bathtub and hit it with the palm of your hand as hard as you can. Be aware, it will smart a bunch!

Back in my younger days, living on a lake in Minnesota, we did alot of water skiing. Some of us advanced to some trick stuff, like skiing without skis...barefoot style.
Typical skiing, we are going about 25 MPH, but skiing barefoot, you need to go 30 to 35 mph (depending on the person's weight and foot size). let me tell you, wiping out at 25 was fairly pleseant...upping the speed to 35, and wiping out was painful...yep like concrete.

[Blackwater]

This really isn't a hard concept to grasp. ANY bullet, whether jacketed, cast or monolithic, that doesn't expand will, ipso facto, penetrate like the dickens. Any bullet that DOES expand will be trying to move several times more tissue, or whatever, out of the way as it penetrates, so that penetration level will be greatly reduced. With higher velocities, there's also the cavitation effect and compression of the medium that's to be penetrated, so all these things work together to severely limit penetration as expansion and/or velocity rise. Jack O'Connor used to tell of how deadly some of the old .30/30 bullets he used in his youth were on the little Coues deer he loved to hunt so much. Driven at much higher velocities than they'd been intended to be driven at in his '06, they were like little bombs when they hit the little deer, and almost literally "exploded" on entry, penetrating little but causing devastating wounds that did the job on those little deer. Very quick in-the-tracks kills were the result. On the other hand, I really ticked off some young lion in a gun shop some time back. He was bragging a little more heartily than I thought appropriate about how his Barnes TSX bullet had killed his whitetail buck. "Yep," he said, "Only went 75 yds. after I shot and piled right up." I rather nonchalantly commented, "Really!? Huh! I use plain old cup and core bullets, the ones the glossy magazines say 'fail' in penetration, but when I shoot a buck, I've always picked 'um up where they were standing when I shot." The young lion suddenly found reason to find another place in the shop where he continued his conversation with the proprietor. I could only stand there and snicker a bit. The simple Truth is, we "moderns" just don't put a lot of thought into matters like this, and just gawk at the caliber and reputation of the ".44 magnum" or whatever, and what's written about it in the glossy magazines. But it really doens't take much field experience to come to the simple realization of certain Truths that affect our beloved sport. It's just that we've come to trust printed words TOO much, and don't test out the things we read. A little field testing can provide a BUNCH of counter-intuitive resullts. Try it. It's awfully hard, as has been mentioned, to stop a good, heavy hard cast bullet driven to good to high velocity. It's not too terribly unlike the old Britiish "solids" that killed so many elephants way back when. Even after doing field tests, it's hard sometimes for me to really appreciate just how much these things can penetrate. Whether that's desirable or not depends on the game. And we also forget that in reading about much of the old African hunters' exploits, that much of their shooting was done with whatever ammo was available back then, which all too often was FMJ military stuff. They took it and did amazing things with it, which again reflects that it's really where you hit 'em more than it is what you hit them with that matters MOST. It all matters, but placement will always be king. Just look at how many soldiers are and have been killed with FMJ's. They may not be quick killers, but they sure as heck ain't creampuffs! And they're to be respected, and used according to their traits, just as those old African hunters did. They made do with them just fine when necessary, and game just hasn't changed any since then. As Forrest Gump might have said, "Facts is facts," and all we have to do, really, is just to learn what the REAL facts are, and trust the written and spoken word less. It's a fascinating subject and Marshall and Sanow have sold many books detailing their experiments. The old Thompson LaGarde experiments also are insightful. In the end, the old controversy between the light/fast bullet crowd and the big, heavy, blunt/lower velocity crowd are BOTH right. It just depends on what you need or want to do and the circumstances you have to do it in that helps us choose between them, or go somewhere in the middle. I've field dressed well over 300 deer, and autopsied almost all of them. Only takes a few seconds, really. Doing that, I've learned a LOT that was not quite what I'd anticipated. The old .30/30 for instance, causes wounds out of proportion to its standing among modern hunters. Std. cup and core bullets, when well made (and most are today) and designed for .30/30 velocities, do an amazingly good job of stopping and killing deer. Like any other bullet, they have to be well placed. My favorite deer caliber is the old .270, but I'm no prig about it. Any decent modern caliber that'll drive a good, quick opening bullet at or near 3000 fps. should be an instant killer given good shot placement. There'll be an occasional deer that will run, especially if the heart is hit, but they never go far IF the shot is placed right for the angle. Simple, really. There ARE no "magic bullets." Only different types that do the same relative job in different ways. On deer, and I'm speaking of our Southern whitetails here (bigger deer may need something a little different, of course, as will elk and moose, etc.) I'll take the fast, quick opening calibers. I'm getting old and don't like to track, and I REALLY don't like dragging deer out of the woods, so .... that combo just puts them down reliably and very close to where they were standing when shot, if not in their tracks literally. Bear or elk? I'll go with the big bullet crowd. Those animals are much bigger, and MUCH more resistant to "shock" than moderately sized whitetails, and a leaking hole on both sides can, and I understand often DOES, make a significant difference. When I built a rifle for an elk hunt that never happened, I went with a .35 Whelen Ackley. A wise man learns what tools are available, how they work and differ, and chooses accordingly, I think, or at least does so on the basis of all the best available info he can muster up.

Penetration? That can be an asset, definitely, and there are those who don't mind following a deer a short ways. I just do, so I choose accordingly. But let's never forget, it's WHERE you hit 'em that matters, and there ARE no "magic bullets," only bullets that provide different sets of assets and liabilities. It's not nearly as complicated as the gun writers often try to make it out to be in order to sell more magazines. I miss guys like ol' Elmer Keith, who wrote from actual goal-oriented experience, and plenty of it, and reported what he ACTUALLY thought, whether any advertisers got their panties in a wad about it or not. He got a lot of less than sparkling reviews published out of the force of his sheer tenacity and reputation, and I just don't see his like in the crowd we have now. He observed and reported. Very simple. Very direct,and his writing has stood the test of time. Roy Weatherby's exploits have also stood the test of time as well, and though they seemed to differ when viewed from our "modern" perspective, they agreed on many more things than they ever disagreed on, and any differences were met with respect on both ends. Elmer would allow that the little bitty bullets at high speed do indeed kill well MOST of the time. He just preferred a big bullet that made big holes in game since that ALWAYS worked for him, again, given decent placement, and the way he hunted - for FOOD - he often HAD to take shots we modern sportsmen would have turned down. His way, his choice, and he was right within those parameters. So was Roy. Roy fond bullet construction a big factor. Wonder of wonders! For all the wondrous developments in rifles, ammo, bullets, etc., there's really nothing new under the sun, and isn't likely to be until we start shooting with lasers or particle beam guns. The right, or at least an adequate bullet, placed right, and you'll eat well. The wrong bullet might not let you eat so well, and the right bullet wrongly placed doesn't do a lot of good, either. As with most skills, it's the application that matters, in the end. Thank God we have all the different bullets we do today, including the Barnes stuff. It hasn't always been so. We just have to learn how to choose better among the plenty that exists now, and that requires some knowledge, and preferably, experience, or at the very least knowledge BASED on experience. If a person claims "good luck" with a certain combination but can't explain why it's so great, chances are, their advice is worthy of a generous helping of skepticism. Test mediums, too, it must be noted, are NOT the same as real flesh and bone, but we CAN get "close enough" for testing to be instructive. It just takes some intelligent and reflective evaluation. This really shouldn't be a biggie. So next time you go shooting, take some balloons, wet newsprint or magazines, or whatever you have handy, and play around experimenting with it. Chances are, you'll note some very interesting things.

[fecmech]

Many years ago I used to hunt woodchucks with my .44 mag SBH. I used 429421 HP cast 40/1 and it really did a job on chucks. One day behind my home I shot a chuck who was facing me at about 20 yds and noticed I had no exit. Being really surprised I cut open the chuck to find the bullet and discovered she was pregnant and had a belly full of clover. I found the slug pictured below in her back end and it's about 1" in diameter. The load was 25/296 and velocity out of my 7.5" SBH was 1400 fps. The bullet entered just under her chin and traversed her whole body. I would not believe it possible if someone told me beforehand.
It was the last woodchuck I ever shot. Some of the babies were still moving after I opened her up and that really bothered me.

[44man]

Many years ago I used to hunt woodchucks with my .44 mag SBH. I used 429421 HP cast 40/1 and it really did a job on chucks. One day behind my home I shot a chuck who was facing me at about 20 yds and noticed I had no exit. Being really surprised I cut open the chuck to find the bullet and discovered she was pregnant and had a belly full of clover. I found the slug pictured below in her back end and it's about 1" in diameter. The load was 25/296 and velocity out of my 7.5" SBH was 1400 fps. The bullet entered just under her chin and traversed her whole body. I would not believe it possible if someone told me beforehand.
It was the last woodchuck I ever shot. Some of the babies were still moving after I opened her up and that really bothered me.
Sure not good for deer!132325 these are 240 XIP's recovered from deer, all behind the shoulder, double lung shots. Some say they penetrate but not me. Hit bone once. Need shot slower.

[quilbilly]

Pretty much matches my own terminal ballistics tests with my 444 using either a plain base 265 gr SWC at 1200 or the 310 gr RF-GC at 1800 FPS. All of mine were done at 40 yards into soaked, compressed phone books with a small thin piece of plywood inserted to simulate a rib bone. Penetration of the 310 boolit was only about 10" while the slower SWC was about 8-1/2" with little expansion of either. On the other hand, my 308 using a 163 gr RNGC at 1800 FPS penetrated over 18" with massive expansion (same alloy in all). My 30/30 using the same boolit at 1550 fps penetrated 17" while tumbling making a massive wound channel.

[BruceB]

). let me tell you, wiping out at 25 was fairly pleseant...upping the speed to 35, and wiping out was painful...yep like concrete.

I had to laugh, remembering.

On a few occasions as a youth in Northern Ontario, I water-skied behind a Cessna 180 (on floats, of course!)

With the airplane "up on the step" (floats ON the water like a planing boat, not IN the water), it becomes a delicately-balanced high-speed watercraft, and if the skier pulls turns too hard, he can actually "trip" the airplane and cause a disaster,

Therefore, it was simply straight-ahead speed, like 70 mph or more. If one falls at that speed, the water is just like a floor, and the skier will skip a long way, maybe a hundred yards or more, before finally falling through the surface...and yes, it did hurt.

How did I EVER live to survive this long???

[W.R.Buchanan]

I am surprised at you guys, And I want to say right off any one who says that "their boolits in their loads is going to do much better than this video has never shot into a swimming pool. Any short fat boolit is going to get slowed down just about as fast as those JHPs did. I would bet that a 250 gr SWC solid would get 2 more balloons at best.

Any .44 cal SWC or other cast boolit is going to be lucky to get 4 feet deep in a pool! A FMJ Spitzer from a .30-06 might get 6-8 feet. Guys what to you think they shoot into in crime labs?

First you are shooting water which dissipates energy like nothing else, and secondly the balloons hold the water in position but allow for tremendous expansion and movement in the boolits direction while still keeping the water contained. All of this soaks up energy at a rate much higher than virtually any other medium besides dirt or sand.

One of the guys here shot some of my .44 cal. boolits thru blocks of Ballistic Jello. My 245 gr SWC hps at 1300 fps got 27", my solids went thru 36" and kept going. Jello is not like water, it is like meat.

Shooting plastic jugs filled with water is nothing like the test shown. Shooting an animal is nothing like the test either. When you dive strait down into a pool how deep to you go? maybe 6 feet?

We all know that a 250 gr boolit will go clean thru an Elk at 900 fps, and one of the JHP's that this guy shot at 15-1800fps yeah right!, would probably nearly go thru the same critter.

But what is being missed here is that there is no comparison between the medias. An Elk is NOT a big bag of water! And water jugs don't expand like balloons do.

It has been a well known fact that I have known about since before my 10th birthday that if you want to shoot someone under water you use a bow and arrow! I have yet to see any of the boys from down south shooting Carp or Gar Fish with guns? They all use arrows.

This is all about Short and Fat versus Long and Skinny.

My gawd! have none of you guys ever watched a movie where guys were being shot at under water. Those are usually rifle bullets too, but once you're 8 feet deep you are pretty much safe from any of them.

Randy

And Bruce,,, I have gone down at 70mph plus on the Colorado River.. I only did this once! Alcohol had a major influence on me surviving that impact.

The Float Plane idea is a novel way of doing it, and I can see that you probably didn't have that many Flat Bottom Ski Boats in Yellowknife.

My Roommates 16 ft Hondo had a 600 hp 454 in it! We had a guy named BR Roberts from Needles CA who skied behind that boat clocked at 106 MPH,, with 6 Reds in him!

I believe that record still stands!

Randy

[44man]

I just watched a diver belly flop into 1' of water from 40' and survive. Have to be crazy but his area took the shock.
Water is like concrete. It does not compress.
Might sound funny but if a deer just exhaled and has less air in his lungs, is he easier to kill then one that took a breath?

[Four-Sixty]

I used to shoot into the side of steep hill that was thick with trees, and leaf litter. I set up cans on a rotting log and shot them both with cast boolits, and Hornady XTP bullets.

I would set up the targets in the same area with the hopes of recovering any bullets I could. I don't think I ever found but a 1/3 of the cast bullets after digging into that hill. I found just about everyone of those XTP bullets though - often sitting on top of the dirt I just shot them in to.

[44man]

I use a lot of calibers for deer and all have shown different results. The .44 and .475 can use very hard boolits but not the .45-70 or .500 JRH. Velocity and boolit weight is a factor. The 45-70 at 1630 fps pokes a hole with hard lead and I lost a few, those recovered went over 200 yards. This caliber needs some expansion. The JRH had deer going 100 to 120 yards with no blood trails. I cast a softer nose, just a little, maybe 1/8" or a little more and it is a monster now dropping almost every deer right now. I dropped 4 out of 5 last season but the last 7 point made 20 yards with a huge blood trail. I lost no meat at all.
I don't think you need to blow up deer to drop them.

[TCLouis]

On the other extreme I was shocked how many milk jugs it took to stop a cast slug from the LOWLY 380 ACP.

Would be interesting to try this with suspended ballons and milk jugs.

No doubt the 429421 would have penetrated much more.

Years ago when I had the phone books I shot the 45-70 cast and 6.5 RCBS 150 (6.5 TCU) both cast from very hard lead. I dug both of them out of the berm behind the stack of phone books that stopped everything else.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have many more stories of water skiing on the Colorado River from when I worked at the Mohave Steam Plant in Laughlin NV in 1975.

Going down at 70 wasn't all that bad as I was half drunk and pretty much Rag Dolled until I slowed down enough to sink. I simply lost my grip on one of the turns from too much G force. They said I was pretty limp during the whole episode, and I also hit on my back with a ski vest on. But I got back in the boat under my own power and drove home, towing my Room Mate. In 1975 we all were pretty much drunk or stoned or both when not at work, but that is pretty much the way all 25 year olds were at that time. I quit all that stuff 2 years later.

We normally skied at 45 mph, and we skied everyday after work. You could ski all the way to Needles from our dock in River Bend, at some point you had to turn around. I went down hard once during one of those whips and was probably doing near 70 when I lost my grip and just slapped the water hard with the side of my head.

I didn't get in the boat under my own power on that one and ended in the emergency room with a broke right ear drum and a fat head which lasted for a few days.

I now am practically deaf in the right ear and really don't even need an ear plug in that ear to shoot. This bugs my wife to no end as she usually sits to the right of me! It also tends to filter out needless drivel.

BruceB: We are still alive because God seems to take care of Drunks and Idiots!

I don't drink that much any more but my friends would quickly point out that all the other symptoms are present.

Randy

[BruceB]

Yeah.... drinking was (is!) the second-most-popular indoor sport in the Northwest Territories. Per-capita annual booze consumption is over TWICE the average for the rest of Canada.

Water-skiing.... the mine I worked at was about a mile from the shore of Great Slave Lake. On that shoreline was the mine camp, with bunkhouses, cafeteria, houses for married staff.... and the Staff House for single staff members, one of which was me.

In front of the staff House were docks for employees' boats.

The town of Yellowknife was several miles away across the water, and there was a very handy bar just above the shoreline on a bit of a hill.

At the end of a hot summer day in the mine office, there'd be a rush to the dock where one staff house resident had an 18-foot cedar-strip boat. Once the boat was fully loaded, the LAST guy had to water-ski behind the boat (fully clothed) to the bar in town.... we'd make one pass at the dock, and if the skier made a successful semi-dry landing, all was well. If he DIDN'T make a good landing.... there'd be one of us drinking beer while dripping puddles on the bar's floor.

Puddles didn't matter much... when that bar (The "Old Stope") closed for the night, they'd open the doors at one end and clean the place out with a FIRE HOSE. It was brightly lit with naked bulbs, and all furniture was the tubular-steel type for durability in the frequent brawls.... not exactly a yuppie lounge. There are lots of Old Stope stories. The place burned down on New Years Day of 1969.

I had my last drink in January of 2012. After heart failure and subsequent surgery. my Doctor gave me some blunt advice, and here is a complete quote: "You drink, you DIE!" Literally, words to live by.

[Rick Hodges]

Several years ago I had some Rem 300 gr 45 70 bullets loaded to Ruger levels for a #1(as to why I did that, I have no idea). They made a grapefruit size hole in a wet clay bank, something like 3 inches of penetration! 250 gr cast from a smith696 went over 9 inches into the same bank the same day.

Funny I have taken 5 deer with the 300 gr. Remington JHP in a 45/70 at 1880 fps muzzle velocity. 2 through the shoulder. None of the deer could hold that bullet and meat damage was not excessive. Evidently live animals don't act like clay banks.

[Tatume]

I tried the Remington JHP and the Marines I hang around with accused me of hunting with hand grenades.

[DougGuy]

I quit using XTP in .44 because they were separating and I was picking out whole jackets and once separated pieces of lead went all in the meat. Not good.

The next boolit I tried, for factory loads were the most excellent Winchester Partition Gold 250gr JHP loaded with Nosler (I think) partition hollowpoints. Never recovered any, never seen a deer run over 10yds from one, and never had to look for pieces of lead in the meat. I don't think you can buy these anymore but afaik there is no finer performing commercially loaded hunting ammo for .44 magnum, this stuff is the king of the hill.

Haven't recovered any of the Lee C430-310-RF boolits either so I don't know what they look like after exiting the deer. Maybe I will get 2 or 3 standing in a straight line one day and the 3rd deer will catch a boolit for me.

[GLynn41]

the shooter may-may be looking at handgun and rifle performance

[1Shirt]

A video for non loading, non shooting public. A good hard cast SWC in the 300 grain bracket is what is needed for multi water filled breaks.
1Shirt!

[GabbyM]

I saw that, I was going to guess 4! Gf asked how many it would go through and I said depends on what bullet he uses. I figured they would use a 180gr but he said it was a 250gr bullet, looked like a jacketed soft hollowpoint.

Maybe one of our members will dupe the same experiment with a 7 1/2" Ruger, Lee 310 RF boolit in 50/50+2% over 21.5gr H110. I don't think they have enough balloons to catch one of these. I'm thinking more like 10 gal milk jugs in a row and still go through all of them.
______________________________________________

O/T from Waksupi's post, but dead on for the topic if the thread, "Unexpected results from .44 magnum"

This was a factory Remington High Velocity 240gr LSWC GC hunting boolit, I fired it into a can of compressed air like you use to blow out cameras, computers, etc, same size as a 1lb can of freon, very high pressure can, sitting on a big oak tree trunk that had fallen. From a distance of 35yds, hit the can dead center and it went about 40' in the air. Went to look at the can, it was split vertically and opened up but showed no exit! There to the right I saw a glint that caught my eye, and it was the boolit I had JUST fired, laying on the log like it fell out of someone's pocket! I picked it up, touched it to my face, yep still a little warm, no way it was not the boolit I just fired.

The pressure in the can, had STOPPED this .44 magnum boolit in full charge! It split the front of the can, and stopped right there by the rush of high pressure air exiting the can.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Guns/24077625-e437-4a26-bb76-89b6de809f4c_zps9j9wifg8.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Guns/24077625-e437-4a26-bb76-89b6de809f4c_zps9j9wifg8.jpg.html)

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Guns/cb275087-4d8d-4d1d-b491-2e184eb728c9_zpsnqcozcnb.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Guns/cb275087-4d8d-4d1d-b491-2e184eb728c9_zpsnqcozcnb.jpg.html)


Those cans of “compressed air” for office use are actually Freon. Which would be in liquid state in the can. I am very surprised it stopped that 44 slug. Freon does have some odd properties.

[rking22]

Funny I have taken 5 deer with the 300 gr. Remington JHP in a 45/70 at 1880 fps muzzle velocity. 2 through the shoulder. None of the deer could hold that bullet and meat damage was not excessive. Evidently live animals don't act like clay banks.

These were doing better than 2250fps, that bullet works fine at the design parameters it was designed for, 1850fps. I shot a 120 lb deer with that load ONCE, it did not exit and ruined all the shoulder meat. Looked like a bomb went off in the chest cavity. There are some loads out there that push a 300gr to 2500fps in the #1, these (2250fps)were plenty and then some. I loaded the rest of that box at 1800 like Remington intended. Now shoot a 340 at 1600 quite happily!
Also that deer was not "blown off his feet" ,he showed no sign of a hit and ran 50 yards before realizing he was dead. Proved to me energy only needs to be "enough" to push the bullet all the way thru at the intended distance.

[dakotashooter2]

I just about every whitetail I've shot with 210 XTPs out of the 41 mag (1250 fps) I've found the bullet just inside the hide on the opposite side. These shots generally passed through the boiler room plus one shoulder and retained about 80% of their weight. Every one shot with 210 gr cast (ww) at about 1100 fps have been clean pass throughs. Both seemed to do the job equally though the cast has done more damage when hitting bone.

[ridurall]

The talk about shooting fish with a bullet verses an arrow brought back a memory of deer hunting with my father when I was 16 years old and tired of eating camp food. We were hunting up by Guffey Colorado and there was a nice stream chocked full of Brookie Trout. I watched a bunch of them dart into a small pool and decided to try to shoot one with my 30 Belted Newton. I had it loaded with 180 gr Nosler Partition at 2915 FPS. I didn't hit any fish but 5 floated to the surface and we had a nice supper of Trout that evening. Dad gave me a talking to about getting busted by the game warden if there would have been one within sight or hearing and I never did that again. He also brought up a story of him and a bunch of his men during WWII when they were hungry and he tossed a grenade into a large pool of water and the bunch of them had a nice fish fry that evening. A couple of German ladies offered to cook the batch of fish up for them if they could have what was left over. Nowadays at age 59 I've shot many a Gar and Carp with my fishing bow and reel and keep it legal.

[Blackwater]

Gar and dogfish (grennel or mudfish) are my usual targets, and nobody's complained yet about that. Also, my father in law had a really good pond full of bass and bream, and let anyone who asked fish in it. All he asked was that they not use shiners for bait. Of course he almost immediately had a BIG infestation of the silvery rascals, and bass got really hard to catch when all they had to do was park somewhere with their mouths open and wait for one to swim into it. The total balance of the pond got WAY out of whack. In an effort to kill at least some of them, I once took my AR-15 and threw some bream food out, and when a bunch of shiners got to feeding good, shot 5 -7 times into the water, and 50-100 shiners would float up where I could dip them up, stunned by the shock. However, the shock would wear off shortly, and they'd swim off again if I didn't dip them up. A garfish or mudfish 3-4' deep is in trouble using a hard cast heavy .44 bullet and a good load, but it IS kinda' hard to estimate the hold under factor as they get deeper. Get it right, though, and the bullet will take 'em out just fine. Private ponds can make for some real fun, but I don't shoot gamefish, like bass on beds, because it's too much fun and challenge to take 'em with a rod and reel. Still, shooting fish DOES have its place.

[gwpercle]

Water is a lot harder than you think. I knew the soft point wasn't going through too many balloons . I saw a test with 30-06 and G.I. ball ammo ( not AP) and it only penetrated like 36 inches.
I wish they would do that test with a bow and arrow. I'm thinking the arrow is much better at penetration . Dogfish/Grennel....we call them choupique! When in high school we outfitted a bow (duct taped) a big spool to a bow and got some bowfishing arrows and would go after Gar and Choupique...I don't remember shooting through water being a problem, the trick was hitting the fish , light/water diffraction made the fish appear to be somewhere else.
Gary

[BAGTIC]

Actually water does compress, a little. At the bottom of the deepest seas, that is about 12,000 psi, its compressibility is about 1.8%.

[saleen322]

My 'go to' bullet in 44 magnum is a RCBS 240 gas check that I bought in 1978. I have not yet found anything that works better for me in the 44.