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loveruger
02-25-2015, 01:00 AM
I can understand people looking for loads for a certain gun but I think some people are looking for shortcuts. When me and I think quite a few other people on this forum started to reload no internet we experimented and worked our loads. I think the computer has taken away the learning of reloading and for that matter a lot of things gun related. Just my late night rant.

waksupi
02-25-2015, 02:34 AM
Plenty of learning here. Cast bullets are for people who really love every step of the process, from dirty wheel weight, to a hole in the target. Some don't have the love, and will never be fully successful with lead projectiles. They want every step given them, and their hand held every step. That is why the serious people are handloaders, not just reloaders.
With the internet, if we find an odd ball gun, we can find a way to shoot it. Before the internet, it could be a long and many times fruitless search before satisfaction was hopefully achieved.

dragon813gt
02-25-2015, 08:07 AM
They're just LAZY people. Why they ask for load date on a forum instead of going to the powder manufacturer's website is beyond me :rolleyes:

NC_JEFF
02-25-2015, 08:16 AM
Doesn't it seem at times that some come with questions that almost any manual will answer. In a hobby/addiction like ours, where not only the final product is lethal, but anything that goes wrong after primers are inserted can cause injury. Anybody even dabbling in such endeavors should acquire for themselves as good a knowledge foundation as can be had. I respect/fear explosive components enough to make sure and acquire as much knowledge as possible before I ever think about making my first reloads. Maybe I read them wrong, I hope I'm just assuming some aren't reloading without first studying this wonderful craft. A lifetime of enjoyment can come to an end early if certain safe procedures aren't diligently followed and every manual I own explains this in detail. Anyway.......I'll help anybody who asks, I want everybody to enjoy reloading.

JD

Tatume
02-25-2015, 08:54 AM
My concern is not so much with people asking for data, as it is with giving data to them. If I publish my load data, even if my data are less than maximum loads in a manual, am I assuming any liability?

People will sue over anything. Someone can load a cartridge, fire it in a junk gun, get hurt, and sue. His suit may not have any merit, but the person who is sued will still have to defend himself in court. That costs money, and often it costs a lot of money.

A lawyer told me two things many years ago: 1) He could sue anybody for the color of shirt that person was wearing and probably bankrupt him. 2) He was willing to sue his own grandmother for $5.

Take care, Tom

Sticky
02-25-2015, 09:09 AM
A newb to casting chiming in... yes, I have handloaded since waaay before the wonders of the net, but.... I also have always tried to use as much data and info as I could collect before even beginning to load a new cartridge combination. It seems that cast data is a little more scarce from mfr's than it is for jwords, so.... I have found this site and pretty much every thread that I have read to be very informative and full of valuable information.

I don't have a mentor to help me along, nor did I when I started to brew my own ammo, back in the days when you couldn't just go out and buy submoa ammo off the shelf, so the learning process is invaluable to me and all the guidance I can get is much appreciated.

As for specific load data that is posted, well, I understand from loading over the years, that every gun is different, there are too many variables to allow duplication from one to the next and be exact. You need to learn each gun, what it likes and doesn't and the only real way to do that is to experiment, but.. you also need to be experimenting safely, bad things go really bad when a kaboom occurs and so far, in all my years, I have managed to avoid that... and plan on keeping it that way.

I am starting to explore loading casts for a 308AR and this will be pushing the envelope a little, so all of the info that I have been gleaning over the past weeks from reading threads here is going into a large doc that I will later collate into more legible load info. This, along with research from the mfr data will hopefully guide me to a starting point for this journey into previously by my uncharted territory.

No, I won't take 'your load that worked well' and just load and shoot. I will take that little bit of info and file it away with all of the other similar info that I have been able to collect and then, only then, will I think about the different powders, alloys, charge weights, etc. that lead to a final cartridge combination and start to work up some loads and see how things work. There is a lot to be learned and I find others experimentation and sharing it here on the forum an invaluable piece of the puzzle that I am trying to assemble.

So please, there ARE some of us out here that don't yet know, want to learn and really appreciate all the input we can get. This site is an invaluable piece of that, as you guys are pushing the envelope, venturing into areas that would never have been even considered by most if it weren't for internet forums like this, where members share.

Thank you all for what you do share, I for one, really appreciated it! [smilie=s:

Tatume
02-25-2015, 09:09 AM
A good (but not gun savvy) friend of mine once bought a Savage 10MLII smokeless muzzleloading rifle. I advised him against it, but he bought it anyway. Then he came to me for loading advice. I told him to go to the LGS and buy a pound of a particular powder, and I would teach him how to safely load his rifle. He came back with a pound of Bullseye. I said "This is not what I told you to buy." He responded that the guy at the LGS told him to get Bullseye instead, so he did.

I bought the pound of Bullseye from my friend so he wouldn't take it home, and I loaded his rifle for him from my supply of appropriate powder. I also weighed several charge tubes of powder so he could reload it.

I saw the same thing happen with another friend who wanted to load for his 44 Rem Mag revolver. I gave him a good talking to, he put his loading tools away and bought several manuals (he had never loaded a cartridge in his life), and he studied them. Then we talked again, and he has been loading safely ever since.

I am extremely cautious about providing loading data. Even well-intentioned, honest folk can get into trouble through ignorance. You tell them one thing, they add erroneous information gleaned from a not-to-be-trusted source, and they get hurt.

Oh, and NEVER believe anything the clerk at the LGS tells you, unless you know the person personally.

dragon813gt
02-25-2015, 11:06 AM
My concern is not so much with people asking for data, as it is with giving data to them.

Your concern is the same as mine. Which is why I rarely post load data. On the rare occasion I do it's a published load that is usually in the midrange. There really is no need to ask for load data w/ canister powder. Use published data and work up accordingly. If there isn't anything published then work up a load like you would any other time.

Animal
02-25-2015, 12:18 PM
A lot of it goes back to how you were raised. By the time I learned how to read on a 3rd grade level, I learned that I wouldn't get an answer from my family members if I didn't attempt to look for my own answers in a Dictionary or Encyclopedia first. I push my youngens the same way.

Harter66
02-25-2015, 12:24 PM
By using a suggestion for a particular gun or bullet I cannot even begin to count the unfired development loads.

I have had several guns that just wouldn't work with published data,a particular 1-9.5 twisted 06' comes to mind followed by a model 66 clone that turned out to have a 355 groove and 356 throat ideal for cast ,but not so much for the magnum JHP I was trying to feed it and the cases jammed tight with start loads. How about huge conflicts in data or my personal favorite the wildcat that is the correct length and capacity but the shoulder is in the wrong place (by a lot) . The Lee data with the 280 AI dies matches Lyman 280 Remington data but their 264 WM data starts just below Hornady, Lyman,Speer and Serria max and exceeds them by a huge margin.

I'm all for working up (or even down in several cases) a load for my particular needs but if 10 others have been there with 5 guns 2-10 digits before or after me then odds are good that working from their favorite load (or a believed/expessed/implied/extrapolated pressure/velocity) might save a guy 3 powders ,2 primers and 3 cases totaling possibly into 100 of rounds. Sometimes you have to just drive out through the bushes and make the double wide goat trail but it is usually a faster trip where someone else has already found the hidden wash-outs and suddenly blown primers in start loads.

mdi
02-25-2015, 12:36 PM
Much of our society today is what I call the "Instant Generation". Instead of research, they can get an "instant" answer on a forum. They don't have to spend precious seconds either going to google or looking in a book. They have spent years with a cell phone attached to their heads, only reading done is a computer screen, and info. is delivered to them in milliseconds. Can't really blame them though, it's the state of the civilized world.

I too started reloading pre-web and I often recommend a new reloader get published manuals for all their reloading info. (one exception would be powder manufacturer's information on line, but that should be checked with a printed manual). I tell every new reloader that will listen that I don't pay much attention to an forum expert, range rat, gun counter clerk, pet loads website, or gun shop guru for any load data, period. Also I don't offer up any load data either, it would be just holding the new guy's hand, leading him through the process. Mebbe I'm just an old phart that prefers the printed word over a digital display/computer screen (not really, generally speaking), but this has worked quite well for me for over 30 years (but I do use a modern turret press and smokeless powder!)...:mrgreen:

country gent
02-25-2015, 01:00 PM
One issue I have with giving load data out is, I dont know the firearm and its chamber dimensions, condition and history. All of these have a direct affect on pressure levels and saftey. A load that may be safe in my firearm may not be in yours due to this. I have a short throated M1A ( 155s at mag length touched rifling when chambered) and most factory loads federal gold medal, M852, and others would flatten primers due to the short throat and tighter chamber dimensions. Not knowing a rifle and blidly giving load info out can cause issues.

borg
02-25-2015, 01:08 PM
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for the day, teach him to fish,,

Jevyod
02-25-2015, 03:40 PM
I agree with what is being said. I usually pound the manuals first. However, being rather new to reloading, I have not had the time or funds to amass a large amount of powder. I think sometimes questions are asked in order to weed out particular powders that the manuals might list, but nobody has had much success with. Now I would say that there is absolutely no shortcut to experimenting and seeing what works for you. But if I can get a head start on my load development by asking a few questions, I have no qualms in doing so!
I have not been blessed by having a mentor, so all you guys are my mentor. All the info is GREATLY appreciated!!!!

NC_JEFF
02-25-2015, 05:36 PM
I've got '06 loads that move at 900 fps and some that travel 3300+ fps, but I made a LOT of '06 loads that were 2700-2800 fps and came right out of my favorite manual with good old H4350. Use these tested loads if your new, develop your technique and become a really consistant and safe reloader before you venture off the well worn path. I, like some others here, hesitate to post my self-developed load for some of my hotter loads because I've already started with a much reduced load and worked it up to where it is safe in my rifle. I also have a dummy round made up for every round I shoot, no one else will have that to keep them from seating a round deeper than I do with my recipe. We'll all help anyone on this site but anybody answering questions like to know that you (the Questioneer) are up to the task with this information. I do have 20+ years at this and I have more questions than answers and I still have a very healthy respect for what I'm doing at the loading bench. OK.....next question, sorry I rambled on so long.
JD

dh2
02-25-2015, 08:18 PM
yes I see many asking things like how much powder X for gun 123 like they have not opened a reloading manual , over the years I have got in to working with some wild cats that I have found nothing in a manual for and I have a book shelf full of them, some times I get lucky and some one will give me a source for the data I am after. I am leery of putting data from unknown in my gun . I prefer a paper book in from of me if I can get it

jonp
02-25-2015, 09:08 PM
Money. With powder hard to get and getting more expensive I see no need to reinvent the wheel. If something someone else has tried dosnt work there is little sense wasting time, effort and powder doing it again.

I am having trouble with a WC at present. I posted a thread and got many answers. Turns out that the printed load data is incorrect. I may have been able to figure this out myself eventually but I saved much time and powder drawing on the experience here. Thats what this forum is all about

Indiana shooter
02-25-2015, 10:43 PM
I am new to casting myself and I'll give my input on this subject.

Before I decided to begin casting I read everything that I could and talked to as many people as I could. The end result was that I found many contradictions based on where or who the information was coming from.

I then tried it myself and my results where demoralizing to say the least. I mean come on how hard is it to melt lead and pour it into a mold. I then joined another forum and began asking questions on where I went wrong. The members of the forum where very helpful and in turn pointed me to here.

I feel that I am among experts here and if I can't figure something out after many attempts, or I'm looking to buy something I'll ask. I don't ask in hopes of finding an easy solution but to draw from the knowledge of wiser men/women that have been there and done that. Then I'll draw my own conclusion and see if it helps.

This is as true with casting as well as load data. Nothing personal to anyone but I take everything with a grain of salt until I prove it myself.

BrianL
02-25-2015, 10:58 PM
Ask yourselves how many people were saved from hurting themselves and others by realizing that they were unable, or unwilling to read reams of archives trying to find the one nugget of information that pertained to a question that they wanted to ask. There are two sides of most stories and for every one of us that is bothered by noobs asking the same old questions, there is another who takes pride in offering guidance. I DO NOT mean particularly in the area of data as that is not the direction that this thread has been going. It has been about the ease of access and instant gratification.

Many of us look to the forums as a social interaction. Few of us would be hesitant to suggest someone to talk to a mentor more experienced when you need help. This is one of the places where they should be free to ask the same old questions.

If that wasn't the case in the whole sport, Why do we keep seeing gun writers being lazy and putting out articles like "30-30....enough gun?"
It isn't that the information can't be found. It is more along the lines of, "If I have a question about shooting cast boolits, where should I go to find information?"

BrianL
02-25-2015, 11:06 PM
I went to Castpics and found a load for the 32 Special of 40 grains of IMR4895 for the RCBS 32-170. Every other manual states 32 grains as a max. If I used only one source of info, is this load safe? Why is it so far higher than the rest? Point is, reading published data isn't always definitive.

kfarm
02-25-2015, 11:19 PM
Don't know if I have ever asked for data but I sure look at all the threads, do searches , look in books and then run it in quick load. Then start midstream. I had my dads old Spanish 38 come apart in my hand. Not that will get your blood moving. Took me several weeks before I loaded any thing. Had it looked at an it was a metal failure, the frame liked like it had crystalized.

BrianL
02-25-2015, 11:26 PM
Don't know if I have ever asked for data but I sure look at all the threads, do searches , look in books and then run it in quick load. Then start midstream. I had my dads old Spanish 38 come apart in my hand. Not that will get your blood moving. Took me several weeks before I loaded any thing. Had it looked at an it was a metal failure, the frame liked like it had crystalized.

Now that is a good example of how the forum could help. If someone asks about loading for a Spanish 38, it might prompt you to mention your experience. I would rather speak to people with experience with particular firearms than read manuals that list loads out of a universal receiver only and lasted only long enough to tabulate starting and max loads.

leeggen
02-25-2015, 11:26 PM
This topic has been kicked around alot of times in the last couple yrs. Sometimes the question of what load do you use for blah blah pistol, and it is not to find out your pet load but which powder works for this type pistol. The question is asked in the wrong words. Powder is hard to find and expensive when found, some loads, even in the reloading manuals, have 3, 4, even more powder suggestions so do we spend lot of money or do we ask questions and save lots of money. Expermentation is not cheap presently. The worst and sometimes helpful place new people find imformation is on You tube, we all know about that place, new reloaders need guidance from us instead of some yahhoo that posted an unsave loading practice. JMO!
CD

Sticky
02-25-2015, 11:31 PM
Ask yourselves how many people were saved from hurting themselves and others by realizing that they were unable, or unwilling to read reams of archives trying to find the one nugget of information that pertained to a question that they wanted to ask. There are two sides of most stories and for every one of us that is bothered by noobs asking the same old questions, there is another who takes pride in offering guidance. I DO NOT mean particularly in the area of data as that is not the direction that this thread has been going. It has been about the ease of access and instant gratification.

Many of us look to the forums as a social interaction. Few of us would be hesitant to suggest someone to talk to a mentor more experienced when you need help. This is one of the places where they should be free to ask the same old questions.

If that wasn't the case in the whole sport, Why do we keep seeing gun writers being lazy and putting out articles like "30-30....enough gun?"
It isn't that the information can't be found. It is more along the lines of, "If I have a question about shooting cast boolits, where should I go to find information?"

Agreed.. and I for one, have spent many hours a day pouring over the wealth of knowledge archived here on the CB forum. It's soo much, that I could spend the rest of the year and barely scratch the surface.. but my quest for knowledge is insatiable.. I will pour (no, not lead, over the info here).. and pour.. and pour some more.. and ask questions and share my experiences along the way as I begin my quest.

relic
02-25-2015, 11:35 PM
Geeze, whats with you guys? I thought this was a site to share info and ask questions, now im not sure what the hell to ask or comment about. What good is a site like this if you don't want to share any info? Stop being afraid of being sued and man up. I don't think anyone is going to get sued over any thing posted on the net.

JohnH
02-26-2015, 12:31 AM
A different spin on this... When I began reloading there were 15-20 powders that were suitable for handguns and that covered everything from 25 ACP to 44 Magnum. Now there are that many powders in the Red Dot - Unique range alone. The question I have often is just how does a particular powder stack up against it's brethren. Some information one simply can't get from a manual. This doesn't mean that one shouldn't go to the source, but the reality is even as long as Tite Group has been around, I'd never tried it until the recent shortage. I like it. It is a good substitute for Red Dot and were it more common here I might even consider switching over to it entirely. Now, in just what reloading manual does one get that experience. Yes, too many ask for data when they need to use Google search. Every manufacturer has a web page and data available. Yet I don't consider that a substitute for a couple of manuals. They all have some knowledge and wisdom on subjects beyond raw data that is useful. Everytime I have a conversation about with reloading with my neighbor fully half the conversation is my having to fill in details about things like powder speed, basic external ballistic knowledge like what does BC mean. Think that is a simple conversation? He took up reloading a couple years back, started with a Dillon 650, he's since admitted he should have started with a single stage. So, not everything is in a manual but there are times I wish people would just read one. I don't keep up with gun rags anymore, but some days I wish folks would just get a one or two year subscription to Handloader/Rifle magazine. I fear too many are simply looking to make their gun go bang, but then how many of us that could be considered "seasoned handloaders" started at that same place. Some days all we can do is encourage.

captaint
02-26-2015, 09:30 AM
Relic - Welcome. You need to relax a little. It's not like anyone here has a problem sharing information. We do that readily and often. That said, too often guys just want a load for their whatever. Also, too often, it's obvious that the person has no idea how the actual process works. When I started handloading I knew NOTHING about the process. I went and bought the Speer #9 manual and read it. That book is excellent for explaining the process - the why and how things work. How to avoid problems.
What mdi said a while back - he's exactly right. It's not so much some of the new guys are simply lazy, it's just how they grew up doing things. The net makes information finding so easy. Then guys want to go to the new Dillon and produce ammo, quickly. I actually do enjoy the entire process.. I've always believed I could make better ammo than I could buy. Customized to MY guns - every time. I still load on a single stage and I still really enjoy the process. Well, maybe not cleaning primer pockets......One other thing - I don't get squibs - EVER. It's just all about shortcuts, shortcuts, shortcuts. That's all I got.

garym1a2
02-26-2015, 09:41 AM
I rather look for many of my loads here than in the manuels. Dumb as that sounds the manuels do not provide much info on loading cast bullets and what works well with them.
Try to find a good 300 blackout load for a Lee 155gr bullet in a Lyman/lee/hodgen/sierra manuel. Don't exist.
I also like useing the internet for learing things in hours that many people took years to learn. If they want to teach it and share the information than we both learn.

runfiverun
02-26-2015, 10:50 AM
well in my rifle that load is 13 grs of AA#9.
and titegroup sucks compared to red-dot.

Love Life
02-26-2015, 10:57 AM
I have looked everywhere, read the manuals, and even searched this site, but I couldn't find ANY data for a 150-160 gr SWC in the 38 special. can somebody please give me the info? Yes I read the books!!! I've reloaded 10,000,000,000 rds!!!


Oh, and even though I have loaded 10,000,000,000 rds, can somebody tell me why these bullets won't seat all the way?

132126

1Shirt
02-26-2015, 11:13 AM
A lot of people rely on the net, and do not buy the manuals, or at least print off data. You just cant have to many reloading manuals for reference.
1Shirt!

jonp
02-26-2015, 11:29 AM
I have looked everywhere, read the manuals, and even searched this site, but I couldn't find ANY data for a 150-160 gr SWC in the 38 special. can somebody please give me the info? Yes I read the books!!! I've reloaded 10,000,000,000 rds!!!


Oh, and even though I have loaded 10,000,000,000 rds, can somebody tell me why these bullets won't seat all the way?

132126

10 Billion? With a single stage Lee and 1 cavity mold no doubt.

Your a stud Love Life

Btw: id load that boolit backwards with the pointy end against the primer. The hammer and primer hitting the boolit should give you another 100fps. ;)

prs
02-26-2015, 11:32 AM
The "sticky" at the top of our page titled something like: "Why some people will do better here than others" comes to mind.

I think is best to offer good advice, if you have it. That advice should be backed-up with a link or guidance to reference source(s) that are/is published and respected, if possible. It is also appropriate to suggest that the person inquiring do more research and not to rely upon your suggestions alone. The powder manufacturer should have a resource, Lyman's books are reliable (I question a particular 45ACP Unique recipe they have published for years, but I just don't go there). Lee is probably safe in general. But to just lung ahead with internet advice is method for impending doom.

prs

Love Life
02-26-2015, 11:33 AM
10 Billion? With a single stage Lee and 1 cavity mold no doubt.

Your a stud Love Life

It's what I do.

Since all I have is anecdotal, and that is frowned upon, I tend to stay out of the data and figuring out how to reload threads.

I work hard for my data and load info...at the reloading bench and on the firing line. I feel that all should do the same.

Love Life
02-26-2015, 11:57 AM
That cartridge won't work in your 38 Special. It is a NOE 325365 smacked down sideways on a 45 Colt casing using a rubber mallet. You'll need at least a 45 caliber, but I do not guarantee reliable function. It's my favorite wild cat and is sub MOA to the moon...

borg
02-26-2015, 12:34 PM
I have looked everywhere, read the manuals, and even searched this site, but I couldn't find ANY data for a 150-160 gr SWC in the 38 special. can somebody please give me the info? Yes I read the books!!! I've reloaded 10,000,000,000 rds!!!


Oh, and even though I have loaded 10,000,000,000 rds, can somebody tell me why these bullets won't seat all the way?

132126




You need a little more bell on that case to get proper seating. :kidding:

dragon813gt
02-26-2015, 12:36 PM
I work hard for my data and load info...at the reloading bench and on the firing line. I feel that all should do the same.

But powder is expensive if you can even find it. And the other components are expensive as well. Just give me load data so I don't waste any money.

In all seriousness it's usually easy to tell if a person has a clue. If he does than all of us are more inclined to help them. If they don't know the basics then they should read the manuals until they do. None of this is hard. And I doesn't require that much effort either. No one is saying don't ask questions. But you should search before you start a thread about a subject that has been asked over and over.

Dick, no wonder that bullet doesn't work. You forgot to put the gas check on and we all know you can't shoot a gas check design w/out a gas check.

runfiverun
02-26-2015, 12:37 PM
so it might work in my 8 mauser with the tight throat if I tweaked things a bit?

mdi
02-26-2015, 01:19 PM
Big, big difference in asking for casting or reloading method info. than wanting load data. There is very little danger to a caster or reloader if they make a mistake in casting or sizing, bullet choice, etc., but to take a load from an anonymous screen name and load that in your gun is at the least reckless and dangerous. Perhaps one of the easiest things to find is reliable load data, available on powder manufacturer's websites and in plain old reloading manuals that are available nearly everywhere (I just picked up the 2015 Hogdon manual at my local grocery store, and every library I've seen/been to has reloading manuals and copy machines). And, if a reloader has enough experience to try/reload/shoot a wild cat cartridge, then he probably has the insight, experience and info. to reload for a cartridge with no "instant" data available (although I don't "wildcat" I have found data for some cartridges not in "normal" reloading manuals; "The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions" is the latest I found).

I like the "give a man a fish..." reference; very fitting...

Love Life
02-26-2015, 01:57 PM
so it might work in my 8 mauser with the tight throat if I tweaked things a bit?

Maybe, but you'll have to tweak the magazine box and the bolt face.

echo154
02-26-2015, 04:35 PM
I must put my 2 cents in……the only stupid or wrong question is the one not asked….yes people are lazy….some that is….but I would rather have them ask, than be afraid of ridicule for doing so….JMTCW!

kfarm
02-26-2015, 07:41 PM
Lube, man you forgot the lube.

Love Life
02-26-2015, 07:51 PM
More bell, a gas check, and lube. I'll give it a try.

BrianL
02-26-2015, 08:53 PM
Maybe I am looking in all the wrong places but I find it hard to find cast bullet info at the powder manufacturer's sites. I have a few manuals but even the cast bullet manual from Lyman doesn't acknowledge that the 7-30 waters exists. One of my favorites is the statement that the 30-30 and 32 special are ballistic twins, yet they do not even list the same powders used in the same bullet weights in the same manuals.

BrianL
02-26-2015, 08:58 PM
I must put my 2 cents in……the only stupid or wrong question is the one not asked….yes people are lazy….some that is….but I would rather have them ask, than be afraid of ridicule for doing so….JMTCW!
I would rather have them ask then make an assumption and end up shooting right beside them when their gun becomes a pipe-bomb.

Harter66
02-26-2015, 10:37 PM
So where should I look for data for 150 gr boolits in a 6.8 Rem ? Or 255 s in 45 AR?

JohnH
02-26-2015, 11:22 PM
well in my rifle that load is 13 grs of AA#9.
and titegroup sucks compared to red-dot.
I think that is part of the whole point of the direction this thread has taken, everyone's mileage varies. I can't tell enough difference between Tite Group and Red Dot in a 44 Special, a 45 ACP and a 45 Colt to matter. They both meter well, burn clean, deliver groups that are better than I can hold the gun. Same is true for the rifle. I'm not commenting back on this to "be right" (got nothing to win or lose) just that when someone asks what data people are using for a given boolit, cartridge, firearm, what works for me may not work for others and vise versa. Lyman always shows a "best load" in their data. I've never experienced that to be the case with any gun/cartridge I've used. Each is a universe unto itself, including universal receivers. Some of the worst groups I've shot were at the same time some of the most consistent on a chronograph. It shouldn't be that way, but it is. Asking for data as a starting place is one thing, asking for data expecting to get a shortcut is quite another.

jonas302
02-26-2015, 11:36 PM
I could never understand why people complain about asking questions on a discussion forum its for discussing things kinda like hashing it over with friends you dont have to come up with an answer often the following discussion is more useful than the actual answer I know I have learned tons reading though the posts well at the ones that are not full of sarcastic remarks the have no value from the peanut gallery. Not everybody is stupid or lazy just because they ask a question like load data that more experienced reloaders know isn't a straightforward answer you never know they might be completely discouraged or dive into the books

runfiverun
02-27-2015, 01:50 AM
that's just it john we are here to help I actually gave my opinion in that post about the load and the two powders.

I have titegroup here and have shot it quite a bit.
I have shot it enough to know just how far you can push it before the grip panels bulge out under your hand and it leaves some brass embedded in your fingers.
I have also pushed it the other direction and stuck boolits in the barrel.
I also tried a bunch of rifle loads with it too.
and then worked up some loads in 12 ga shot-shells with it.

I done the same thing with red-dot and it far out performed titegroup in every situation.

the AA#9 load is so far the most accurate load I have tried in my 300 b.o.
it's accurate enough I can see the difference on target if I adjust the triggers pull weight up and down.
it ain't gonna work in your AR though.

all my goofing off was to prove a point, you have to be specific about your questions.
I could probably give you 6-7 different loads for the same gun depending on my interpretation of what you want.
5 of them are probably not printed in a manual and are loads I manipulated or extrapolated through testing.
do you really want those?

harter66 start at 4 grs of unique in the AR, stop around 6. [my 624 likes 5]

hornady308
02-27-2015, 02:29 AM
How many millions of model 94 Winchesters were made in 30-30? I don't know, but I know it was a bunch. So, if someone already knows a great load in their 94, maybe that can save me some powder/bullets/time. Someone on this forum suggested 27gr of IMR 3031 with a 165-170 bullet. I tried that load and it works great in every 30-30 I have tried it in. Why reinvent the wheel? And, as for fear of lawsuits for suggesting load data, you can't get blood from a turnip. Go ahead and sue me. See what you get for your efforts.

Motor
02-27-2015, 02:37 AM
"Oh, and NEVER believe anything the clerk at the LGS tells you, unless you know the person personally."Tatume" This statement should be made into a sticky. !!!!!!

Back on topic. I've been hand loading since 1985 and there are many times when I get kind of irritated by questions on threads. The funny thing is I have myself been guilty of posting stupid questions at times. This wonderful tool (the computer) just makes you lazy sometimes.

But just like the last post states sometimes we are just basically pooling to see what has worked for others. The experienced people like myself will not just "try something" somebody posted but research it first.

Motor

robg
02-27-2015, 06:20 AM
half the fun is finding the load that works best,most accurate in that particular rifle thats what gives me the most satisfaction.

mdi
02-27-2015, 12:58 PM
Maybe I am looking in all the wrong places but I find it hard to find cast bullet info at the powder manufacturer's sites. I have a few manuals but even the cast bullet manual from Lyman doesn't acknowledge that the 7-30 waters exists. One of my favorites is the statement that the 30-30 and 32 special are ballistic twins, yet they do not even list the same powders used in the same bullet weights in the same manuals.Now this is where one is required to think. I saw your post and found 7-30 reloading data in under 1 minute...

Google is your friend...https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=7-30+waters+load+data&ei=utf-8&hspart=att&hsimp=yhs-att_001&type=sbc_dial

Reloading, as we usually all agree, takes some thought. A scatter-brained, Primitive Pete type reloader is a dangerous reloader. If one cannot think enough to find relatively easy information, that one should not be reloading, and anyone feeding him/her reload data is just as guilty...

BTW, this post is not directed towards Brian, I would not attack a member like that...

borg
02-27-2015, 02:07 PM
I could never understand why people complain about asking questions on a discussion forum its for discussing things kinda like hashing it over with friends you dont have to come up with an answer often the following discussion is more useful than the actual answer I know I have learned tons reading though the posts well at the ones that are not full of sarcastic remarks the have no value from the peanut gallery. Not everybody is stupid or lazy just because they ask a question like load data that more experienced reloaders know isn't a straightforward answer you never know they might be completely discouraged or dive into the books


Sorta dating yourself there. LOL

BrianL
02-27-2015, 03:35 PM
Now this is where one is required to think. I saw your post and found 7-30 reloading data in under 1 minute...

Google is your friend...https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=7-30+waters+load+data&ei=utf-8&hspart=att&hsimp=yhs-att_001&type=sbc_dial


BTW, this post is not directed towards Brian, I would not attack a member like that...

You saw my post but didn't get the drift of it. I stated that if I relied only on the Lyman cast boolit book, I would have no data, zilch for 7-30 waters so yes, I would find it where I could, the web, other manuals, perhaps in the archives which is just a searchable data base of threads like these, where people asked and answered questions.

I took no offence to your post because I do think and know how to find information but on the other hand do not feel it inappropriate to ask questions of those with more experience and outlook. The 'data' gained is not all cold hard statistics. There is conversation and maybe follow-up questions. Learning takes place through interaction.

SSGOldfart
02-27-2015, 04:35 PM
At times we can all share in the knowledge of others, Knowledge comes from experience, a book or manual is just knowledge on paper each person will take that knowledge and do as they will it doesn't matter were they got the knowledge. I believe the printed manuals are a safer place to start, with loading data but sometimes they don't tell us what we need to know, again each to there own

Brett Ross
02-27-2015, 05:27 PM
I do not ask for load data but admit to searching for it. Many of the old rifles I reload for it is the only option. Now, I never take anything I read online as gospel but gather many resources for a "game plan" for load development. I'm not a peculiarly young man but late to the reloading game and am glad of the resource called "the internet".

Harter66
02-28-2015, 12:21 AM
River run.
The point of quizzing the AR and SPC is that except for obscure references in a gun mag about heavies in ACPs with 250 XTPs it just isn't found beyond places like ours . As for the 6.8 data is skinny as a rail for jackets let alone cast. Forget using the whole of a 1-9 1/2 twist when you've bumped it up to 7x6.8 .

I think that by the time folks get here they have sense enough to question a tablespoon of Red Dot in a 380.

mdi
02-28-2015, 12:58 PM
Yep, a long drawn out thread about sharing information. If I have first hand experience with anything concerning reloading, casting, shooting, or gunsmithing, I'm more than happy to share. But, my stance is not about sharing information, it's about sharing load data, Big difference! One of the most basic aspects/tasks of reloading is determining a powder charge. This info is available in many reliable places, and since reloading requires a bit of plain old horse sense, a reloader should be able to find reliable data easily if he just thinks (and as noted many, many times on every forum I've seen, use more than one manual). Personally, I don't care if someone wants to ignore reloading manuals and just get his data from a forum expert, or gun shop guru, but I think that method is a reckless, hap-hazard way to get reloading info...

runfiverun
02-28-2015, 12:59 PM
I used to know that was how it was here, it was more like the site to get your phd of casting.
it's changed a lot with the huge increase of membership we have had in the last couple of years.

as a side note.
some 9m's I was loading yesterday could just about have been loaded by scooping the case full of powder and seating the bullet, I had to hold my thumb over the case when moving it to get the bullet set on top before seating.

some of the stuff we do here does leave you feeling like your on an island, even with three book shelves full of load data I have to really think through some of the stuff I wanna do.
asking for help to figure it out is always a good idea, but you gotta sort out the good from the not so good.
your example of the 6.8 is similar to my trials with the 357 max using a 250gr boolit in a revolver, or when reducing some loads in a 450 express mag where only like 500 guns were ever made.

your pretty much on your own there.

BrianL
02-28-2015, 02:17 PM
MDI
I agree that there is information out there but following the link that you posted as an example led me to a bunch of sites where I found only one loading for only one cast bullet. Granted, I did not visit them all but probably will as time goes by. And most standard manuals do not cover many cast loads and when they do, it is only with select powders, therefore it is hard to ignore what isn't there to begin with.
You have the misconception that when someone asks a question, the answers are taken as some form of manna from heaven that needs to be followed without any further thought. The fact is that most of us who post questions probably have already done a bit of legwork and ask here to get a feel for what others are doing and melt the information down and make our own, thought out decisions.
Asking questions does not always indicate a lack of thought process or ambition.

Like you, I have developed loads for my own guns based upon experience, manuals, word of mouth and yes, the forums.