The truth about annealing rifle brass

[waco]

Once again I've tried the search function with no luck ( I must be stupid )

I just watched about 6-8 Youtube videos on this subject.

I also got about the same amount of different ways to do it.

Most use a cordless drill. OK... easy enough, but where I have a question is when it comes to using water.

It has always been my understanding that you dont want to get any heat down at the case head. some of these

guys are just heating the brass then just laying it on the table to cool. Seems to me that all that heat is going

straight down the case into the head area. These are the same guys that also say that quenching the brass in water

just makes it hard again. I've heard before to put the case into water to were the only brass exposed was the neck

and just below the shoulder. After heated to just a dull pink, flick the case into the water. So my question to those

who know is, what is the proper way for me, the newbie annealer, to anneal my rifle brass. Also, how often and

when does one want to anneal brass? Thanks again guys in advance for all your responses.

Waco

[geargnasher]

Dull pink is way too hot. Quenching brass, silver, copper, gold, and similar metals doesn't affect the process at all, it just STOPS the heat from spreading. The only way to harden these metals is by physically working them. There's a good article on LASC about it, explains far better than I can at this hour. The only thing I can really add is that if your necks are becoming excessively brittle, you can lightly "draw" them in a pot of molten lead alloy for a few seconds, and the Vise-Grip and Micrometer trick is a good way to judge results (putting repeatable pressure on the case necks and measuring the amount of springback).

Gear

[303Guy]

Quenching does not harden brass. Only working will do that. Setting the cases so only the base of the shoulder is exposed is good but tipping them over is not necessary and makes drying the interior a pain. The important thing to consider is over annealing. You don't want to over anneal. If you do want to then raise the water level to cover the shoulder. I made the mistake of heating the necks to the point that I could see the dull red inside the necks. That's too far. I ended up with runout. Neck tension is also greatly reduced but at least it's consistent.

[waco]

I'll look up the article on LASC. Thanks Ian.

[MtGun44]

The only way to harden brass is to work it, quenching does NOT harden it.

303guy beat me to it.

[silverjay]

Get some tempilaq, I use 650 on the inside of the necks. Heat until it turns black and remove from heat. Lower half of the case never hits 350 withou using water. I use this machine. Cost $70 to build.

[runfiverun]

6mm br also has a super good article on annealing.
understanding what you are doing to the metal will clear things up.

[Love Life]

I use the cordless drill and socket. I dump my brass into a water/citric acid mix. This removes tempilaq, scaling, and after tumbling you can't even tell the brass has been annealed.

[Nueces]

I dump my brass into a water/citric acid mix.

Now, there's a good idea.

[country gent]

I use a copper fitting on a shaft sometimes to anneal with a tourch. I also water quench when annealing. The fitting or socket acts as a heat sink pulling heat out of the cse head. Remeber to occasionally cool the fitting/socket when annealing. I also dedicated a lyman mag dipper to annealing. I made a series of sheetmetal plates one with a ring of 1/2" holes and filled it with very fine sand. Set to 800* Its a very controlled way to anneal

[Bjornb]

Check this out: www.cartridgeanneal.com
This Arkansas company sells an annealing setup for 78 bucks, with Tempilaq for temperature control. I have so far annealed over 1000 cases with good results, and I can recommend the Anneal Rite system.

[geargnasher]

I use a copper fitting on a shaft sometimes to anneal with a tourch. I also water quench when annealing. The fitting or socket acts as a heat sink pulling heat out of the cse head. Remeber to occasionally cool the fitting/socket when annealing. I also dedicated a lyman mag dipper to annealing. I made a series of sheetmetal plates one with a ring of 1/2" holes and filled it with very fine sand. Set to 800* Its a very controlled way to anneal

That is smart, right there.

Gear

[runfiverun]

I use the auto annealer graf and sons sells.
it's super consistent cause it's timed.
you just set everything up, aim the torches in the right place, and get the time right.
then just keep the wheel filled until your outta brass and keep the brass coming out,, out of the way of the next ones coming.
the little thing will keep you hopping with stuff like 223 which only take about 3 seconds each.
banging out 2-k pieces is just about a 2 man operation.

[PWS]

If a fellow was going to anneal cases by holding them in molten alloy at ~750F or so, anybody have a good suggestion for keeping lead from adhering to the case necks? I've done it this way before and they mostly come out clean of lead but there's always a few that get a little tinning. I was thinking perhaps a quick dip and dry through a soap/water solution might coat the necks enough to keep them clean.

[groovy mike]

I'll look up the article on LASC. Thanks Ian.

What is LASC?

[Bjornb]

CBrick's excellent website for all things cast bullet. Very much to the point.

[Love Life]

I use a copper fitting on a shaft sometimes to anneal with a tourch. I also water quench when annealing. The fitting or socket acts as a heat sink pulling heat out of the cse head. Remeber to occasionally cool the fitting/socket when annealing. I also dedicated a lyman mag dipper to annealing. I made a series of sheetmetal plates one with a ring of 1/2" holes and filled it with very fine sand. Set to 800* Its a very controlled way to anneal

Just to make sure I understand correctly, but are you saying you fill a melting pot with sand, heat it up, and then put the case necks in the sand to anneal? That is pretty awesome.

[groovy mike]

CBrick's excellent website for all things cast bullet. Very much to the point.

Thanks - took some search engine digging but I found a shooting related website with LASC in the name. Here is a link for so no one else has to go through that:

http://www.lasc.us/CartridgeCaseAnnealing.htm

As for annealling - this is not my video but it is what I do and works perfectly with no expense or equipment beyond the kitchen stove. I put 2 cases at a time on an old fork instead of pliers. Doubles production time.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=LASC&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=lasc&sc=8-4&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=607c669f14c74e15a65433bdc3aaa21d&adlt=strict

[William Yanda]

Los Angeles Sillywet Club. Some knowledgeable guys, willing to share hang out there.

[jmort]

At the bottom of the forum site, down at the bottom of this page, and every page
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

[William Yanda]

"Doubles production time."

I think you meant to say Halves the time or doubles the rate. Vastly different meanings.

[brtelec]

I use the Anneal-Rite also. www.cartridgeanneal.com (http://www.cartridgeanneal.com/) Quick, easy, no guess work, no water.

[Doc Highwall]

This is what I bought to use due to the fact that the timing is precise and can be adjusted while the case is rotating and being heated by two torches.

http://bench-source.com/id81.html

[milkman]

I'm really cheap.... I use the Lee universal shell holder in a variable speed drill and a butane torch. I use templaq to find out how long to keep the torch on the shoulder of the turning case ( about 8 seconds ), then just count seconds for the rest of the cases. I keep a damp cloth beside the drill and as soon as the correct count is reached, I release the drill and slide the damp cloth onto the case, cooling it without wetting the inside. It takes a total of about 12 seconds total per case.
Milkman

[GP100man]

Well it takes a lot less heat to anneal brass than ya think . I found my case mouths on a batch of 357 brass that still looked crimped after firing & after flaring/charging a couple split. On the next cycle I decided to anneal the mouths a bit ,I used the socket set up ,drop the brass in gave it a 3 count using a propane torch on med/low & could barely tell it`d been heated.

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_0510.jpg (http://s746.photobucket.com/user/GP100man/media/102_0510.jpg.html)

As ya can see ya can barely tell it had been annealed & the mouths opened upon firing & stopped splitting.
I did go with more heat at first on 10 cases , I loaded em with 358429 & 12.5 gr 2400 & they lost enuff boolit tension/strength the boolit would jump the crimp , but opened & sealed well (no smoked mouths) on some very low bunny poot loadings. I now do my bottle neck brass the same way & have satisfactory results , at least with a bunch of loadings on a batch of 30-30 brass.

[DR Owl Creek]

Here are a couple of links to great articles on annealing brass. They are both "must reads":

The first one is the one that r5r previously referred to from 6mmbr.com. The title is "The Art and Science of Annealing" by Jim Harris and Ken Light. Go to: http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

The other one is titled "Annealing Cases" by Kenny Howell. Go to: http://www.24hourcampfire.com/annealing.html

Dave

[popper]

Been annealing 300BO cases with a candle. Hold onto the base till is too hot to hold, then drop into H2O. No lead to remove, just some soot. I can tell the difference when I neck turn - annealed spins off, non annealed chunks off. I anneal after forming the re-size. When I start to get some neck splits I figgure it's time to anneal again.

[Shiloh]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?49033-Building-annealing-machine-need-electronics-help!!&p=524183&viewfull=1#post524183

See post 11 Thats how I anneal mine.
I have been full length sizing every sevral lirings. I used to neck size eclusively, but would get hard bolt closures which scared me.

Shiloh

[Moonie]

If a fellow was going to anneal cases by holding them in molten alloy at ~750F or so, anybody have a good suggestion for keeping lead from adhering to the case necks? I've done it this way before and they mostly come out clean of lead but there's always a few that get a little tinning. I was thinking perhaps a quick dip and dry through a soap/water solution might coat the necks enough to keep them clean.

I aneal using molten alloy, leave the spent primer in the case so the lead doesn't enter the case. Once you have held it in the lead for the proper amount of time I drop them into a bucket of water and then remove the primers and tumble with SS pins, this removes anything that might have adheared to the outside which is usually minimal.

[waco]

If a fellow was going to anneal cases by holding them in molten alloy at ~750F or so, anybody have a good suggestion for keeping lead from adhering to the case necks? I've done it this way before and they mostly come out clean of lead but there's always a few that get a little tinning. I was thinking perhaps a quick dip and dry through a soap/water solution might coat the necks enough to keep them clean.

I thought I heard once that having tin in the lead will make it wan to stick to the brass.

[waco]

I aneal using molten alloy, leave the spent primer in the case so the lead doesn't enter the case. Once you have held it in the lead for the proper amount of time I drop them into a bucket of water and then remove the primers and tumble with SS pins, this removes anything that might have adheared to the outside which is usually minimal.


Having a a spent primer in the case, I would think, is irrelevant. You don't want the case head dipped into the lead. Or am I missing something about your procedure?

[s mac]

Having a a spent primer in the case, I would think, is irrelevant. You don't want the case head dipped into the lead. Or am I missing something about your procedure?

Having a primer in place creates an air lock, very little lead enters inside the case.

[country gent]

Love life and all who asked. I have a lyman big dipper electric lead pot ( ladle version) I made 3 discks of sheet metal one is a base that keeps everything cetered in the pot with a 1/4 20 rod in the center. On this is a another plate with a solid ring around the out side and 3/4" holes in the center. this is the stop plate for case mouths to set on. the top plate is above the sand and has a series of 1/2" holes drilled around the out side. This sits in the pot full of sand I had access to a very fine sand used for making glass that I use. In use I drop lead thermometer into the sand and bring up to 800* and let normalize for a short time. Then insert a case in eah hole to stop plate until there is only one empty hole. Remove the first case inserted and insert one into empty hole before and keep working around the ring like this. I do water quench when removing cases. Any sand that sticks to cases is washed out during rinse. I tried the lead and alloies like the consistency but had the issues of lead sticking to cases. This works for me very well but I mmostly work with straight walled cases also.

[borg]

Many, many moons ago, after reading in the gun rags in the early 60's, I tried the alloy method.
Started off w/primer in and met the tinsel fairy from the expanding air in the case.
When I punched the primer out and dipped in alloy, left a beautiful, shiny coat of alloy.
Gave up on it after that and went with a propane torch in a Lee case spinner.

[Blackwater]

Popper, your observation "I can tell the difference when I neck turn - annealed spins off, non annealed chunks off," is very timely here. Good way to tell when the cases need annealing BEFORE one cracks a neck! And all we have to do is just pay attention. Most of us "moderns" are so conditioned to work by rote that we forget that simple observations like this can save us money and time and trouble. There never has been, nor is there likely ever to be a substitute for just paying attention to what we're doing, and inferring from what we see the things we need to know. Just doing "as we're told" hasn't ever been enough. We have to LEARN stuff by OBSERVING the process, and when something is different, we have to take note, and find out the ever present question "Why?" It's THEN that we can become autonomous, and don't really need much help from others. If it all ever comes tumbling down, this could be significant.

And re annealing, I and millions of others used to do things the old, antiquated and (I'm now told) "WRONG" way, by standing the deprimed cases up in water, heating the neck with a Bernz-O-Matic, and tipping them over into the water when the necks glowed a barely perceptible cherry red. Doing this in a dark or near dark room is much easier and more reliable and consistent. It may very well be "wrong," technically, but I've shot '06 cases over 50 times, and NOT with mild loads, by this simple expedient. When case trimming I'd notice the shards came off flaky, I'd re-anneal, and kept on shooting those cases until I just plain felt bad about continuing, and got replacements. It worked, and nary a trouble involved, so .... wrong or not, it IS useful, and danged if it didn't work, too, and WELL, to boot. With that kind of record, I've seen no need for any of the fancier setups, and will likely keep doing it the old fashioned "wrong" way for the remainder of my time left here on earth. Sometimes "wrong" works in spite of itself. Go figure!

[GabbyM]

Last few weeks I've annealed 4,000 5.56mm cases.
All I used was a ten dollar propane torch, coffee can half full of water and bare hands. Hold case in flame, rotate between fingers three times then drop in water. Speed you rotate sets final brass temp. Aim is important. I hit the shoulder with flame point. I count to three so it's about three seconds in the flame. I dry them after with a hair dryer. Do about 330 at a time as that's what my tumbler holds. A pair of torches instead of the single unit may speed up things. Past that I cant see much advantage in complicating things. Pistol brass would be another matter as it would be impractical to hold them in hand.

[rbuck351]

I use the lead dip method but dip the neck in oil of some type first so the lead won't stick. Hold the case neck in 750/800 degree lead until it starts to get warm to your fingers then drop in water to keep the heat from spreading too far. After you figure out how long you can hold a case before it burns your finger you can hold them with pliers and do a count, usually about 7 to 8 seconds. Also I anneal before cleaning the cases which helps to prevent lead sticking. It does a very consistent even job without fear of over annealing and we do all have lead pots.

[ascast]

Has anyone tried the SELF CLEANING OVEN method? It was talked about several years ago. I would be interested if anyone here has an opinion. For those who don't know it: basically, stand up your cases in a cake pan in which you have added water. Then bake or use the SELF CLEANING cycle on your oven. Primers must be removed first and water up to about mid body ( use judgement ). I have used this method for rimless cases, it seemed to work. You8 want to check that the cases have filled with water first.
For rimmed cases I use the lead dip method, I have some sections of screen ( large hole ) with every other hole rounded out to accept 45-70, 38-55, 11mm cases, etc.
I dunk the cases first in graphite powder then hold them in the lead melt. This seems yo have eliminated the "tinning" problem. But, I do this with straight wall cases only 'cause I like to inspect for tinning before reloading.
I really like that hot sand idea for bottle necked cases. I will be trying that. thanks

[country gent]

The media used isnt important as the ability to transfer heat is fery fine sand hs few voids to hold air. I had considered glass beads as used for bead blasting, steel shot in finer sizes, sand, and some others some have said to use salt but that salt worried me with brass. It works for me as the cases dont spring back when passed over an expander after the annealing like they do before. But I get very little color change to the cases.

[303Guy]

Primers must be removed first and water up to about mid body ( use judgement ).

I have used this method for rimless cases, it seemed to work. You want to check that the cases have filled with water first.Why the water inside the cases?

I've flame annealed cases standing in water with spent primers and got the necks red hot and still there is no heat staining near the waterline. The conduction of brass is pretty good.

If I could get the temperature right, annealing in the oven seems like a more controllable concept. Brass does anneal at lower temperatures with longer times. so temperature and time would need to be controlled. That would be what the self cleaning cycle is doing.

[Digger]

Love life and all who asked. I have a lyman big dipper electric lead pot ( ladle version) I made 3 discks of sheet metal one is a base that keeps everything cetered in the pot with a 1/4 20 rod in the center. On this is a another plate with a solid ring around the out side and 3/4" holes in the center. this is the stop plate for case mouths to set on. the top plate is above the sand and has a series of 1/2" holes drilled around the out side. This sits in the pot full of sand I had access to a very fine sand used for making glass that I use. In use I drop lead thermometer into the sand and bring up to 800* and let normalize for a short time. Then insert a case in eah hole to stop plate until there is only one empty hole. Remove the first case inserted and insert one into empty hole before and keep working around the ring like this. I do water quench when removing cases. Any sand that sticks to cases is washed out during rinse. I tried the lead and alloies like the consistency but had the issues of lead sticking to cases. This works for me very well but I mmostly work with straight walled cases also.

Very interesting !! .. thank you for the description , is there a chance that we could get a pic or two ??
I am fascinated with the concept ..
thanks
digger

[mart]

I'm a finger roller. Hold the case just above the base and roll it in a flame, candle or torch until it's to warm to hang onto. Drop it in a can of water at that point. To dry them I stand them, necks down in a loading block and let them stand over night. If I need them right away I'll put them in the oven at 170 with the door ajar for a half hour. That drys them right out.

[GabbyM]

OK ,,, My hack job annealing yields rounds that deliver the same accuracy as new Lapua brass. So can anyone tell me how I am doing anything wrong by heating handheld brass under a torch then dropping into water. IMHO annealing without water dropping is poor practice. Just yesterday. I took out a bag of about twenty 30-06 cases I'd picked up on a DOC range in Arizona. About half would not slide into the shell holder. Upon inspection. The rim was so compressed as the shell holder would not fit in the grove. Primers did not look abnormal. Perhaps annealing to far down as in no water drop. ??? I just threw them in brass scrap bucket. Ticked me off as the dirt bags just left junk on the range. These cases were obviously annealed to the case head.

For the sake of cheep grass. Stick-em into a flame. Count one two three to the right. Count one two three to the left then drop in water.

I do like those fancy machines Graffs sells. However I just finished up about five thousand cases. Given annealing will be three shots out. I'm good to go for a few months.

I have a Little Crow case trimmer but a fancy trimmer / deburr would take first dibs over a case anneal machine. With all this new prepped 223 brass and the great RCBS X die. I think I have 223 covered to my next generation.

[GabbyM]

to dry:
Dump on a towel. Gather ends. Rock back and forth to roll cases. Then dump out and blow dry with hair dryer on low for four minutes. Then trim to length deburr or whatever needs to be done. Toss in corn cob media tumbler.

Way I run rounds. After I do intensive case prep on first load. I shoot cast boolits in a good rifle. Use bushing neck dies to prep. I don't tumble clean brass. Just wipe clean then dip in graphite and inside neck brush. Neck size die then reload with cast bullet.
Keep my cases in MTM 100 round boxes and reload per box. Usually five boxes for a run. My data records are kept in a spreadsheet. Lot numbers start with year then batch. like year 2015 batch 15. Written as 2015-15. When I get to a certain caliber I may have loaded ten lots of ammo that year in other calibers. So I start with 2015-11. Trick is to never loose the spread sheet. My children know my system and will inherit any left overs. Sheet is huge with notes on all sorts of case prep and ballistics information. Without such notes the thousands of rounds of loaded ammo here would be pretty much so much junk per pound.

[303carbine]

I read an article on how Ellwood Epps annealed brass, he would turn the brass by hand and anneal the necks over a propane torch until it was too hot to handle, then he would either drop in water or leave them to air cool.
Everything I have read about annealing brass says what 303guy already said, hi Pete.[smilie=s:

[GabbyM]

I read an article on how Ellwood Epps annealed brass, he would turn the brass by hand and anneal the necks over a propane torch until it was too hot to handle, then he would either drop in water or leave them to air cool.
Everything I have read about annealing brass says what 303guy already said, hi Pete.[smilie=s:

In my experience. If it starts to get hot on your fingers. You've heated it more than necessary. You do need a good hot flame and aim it well into the shoulder. If flame is to low or aim off. It takes to long to heat the neck and heat has enough time to migrates into the base. After watching the video on the simple machine. I think two torches set up opposing would be a good setup to anneal by hand. I'll still drop mine in a can of water.

[Love Life]

Tempilaq is cheap and will tell you if you are hitting the right temperatures and if the heat is transferring to the case head...and how fast.

Get a bottle of 900 degree tempilaq and 400 degree tempilaq.

Do it right and take out the guess work.

[Blackwater]

You know, this is a subject that I've found fascinating for a long, long time, now, and the more I learn about the actual scientifically correct way of doing it, the more I have come to realize that there seems to be a significant amount of "wiggle room" in the process. Otherwise, the old time tested but "wrong" in the more modern and scientifically correct sense way of doing it wouldn't have worked as well as it did for me and many thousands of others. Some judgment is of course necessary, but my experience indicates that this is really nothing to be afraid of getting "wrong" unless one grossly overheats the brass. That should at least take SOME of the fear out of it for the newbies here, and those who've just not yet tried it. There's something very reassuring in that, I think. I know when I first did it, I was very intimidated, and worried about ruining my precious brass. Money was hard to come by to a young man with a family going to college and trying to make enough money to support us all. So if any of you are intimidated by any of this, don't be. If a dumb country boy down in Jawja can do it without anything but having read much LESS than has been given you here, and not ruin the brass, I believe it's highly likely you can too. It just takes a little thought and observation. No biggie at all, really, so if ya' ain't tried it, give 'er a whirl. I'm bettin' you'll be pleasantly surprised and satisfied with the result, and the way supplies are spotty now, THAT might be a big deal in the not too distant future. Knowing how could be a boon then. FWIW?

[waco]

Thanks for all the replies fellas.

[243winxb]

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Firearms%20%20and%20%20Reloading/annealingABC.jpg http://s338.photobucket.com/user/joe1944usa/media/Firearms%20%20and%20%20Reloading/annealingABC.jpg.html

[243winxb]

http://bisonballistics.com/articles/the-science-of-cartridge-brass-annealing and modulus of elasticity- Cartridge Brass-
Material is 70 copper/30 zinc with trace amounts of lead & iron , called C26000. Material starts to yield at 15,000 PSI when soft (annealed), and 63,000 PSI when hard.
Material yields, but continues to get stronger up to 47,000 PSI when soft, and 76,000 PSI
when work hardened.

[geargnasher]

Why the water inside the cases?

I've flame annealed cases standing in water with spent primers and got the necks red hot and still there is no heat staining near the waterline. The conduction of brass is pretty good.

If I could get the temperature right, annealing in the oven seems like a more controllable concept. Brass does anneal at lower temperatures with longer times. so temperature and time would need to be controlled. That would be what the self cleaning cycle is doing.

I assume water inside as extra insurance that the body/head area do not get annealed.

Gear

[Nrut]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=Fred+Barker+candle+annealing+method&rlz=1C1GGGE_enCA399CA401&oq=Fred+Barker+candle+annealing+method&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

[rockrat]

I think I remember reading many years ago, to dip the case necks in powdered graphite before you dunk them in the molten lead. And to only use pure lead. When I anneal my larger calibers, there seems to be enough boolit lube on the neck of the case(residue) to keep the lead from sticking.

[TXGunNut]

Check this out: www.cartridgeanneal.com (http://www.cartridgeanneal.com)
This Arkansas company sells an annealing setup for 78 bucks, with Tempilaq for temperature control. I have so far annealed over 1000 cases with good results, and I can recommend the Anneal Rite system.

I think I like this one, production doesn't seem to be much slower than the $500 machine. My pile of "tired" brass is growing so I guess I better do something about it. Thanks for the tip, Bjornb.
Good thread, Waco.

[ascast]

on ovens- I always filled the cases with water 'cause it seemed like a good idea. It probably is not necessary, as long as they don't float. I just checked my new oven. It will roast at 560 degrees F. No data on the self clean cycle, but the net says anywhere from 900 to over 1,000 degrees. My stove will do a 1, 2, 3 or 4 hours clean cycle. I think I will try 560 deg for about an hour and call it good. In the past ( old stove) I used the self cleaner on some 222 Rem and 30-06 that was giving several neck splits. No more splits and the brass seemed to hold up fine.
For lead dipping, I always had cleaned brass, ( tumbled) dipped in graphite, My lead was always cleaned just prior to dipping. I used that white powder stuff as it leaves a mirror finish on the lead surface. Of course, the lead wad really well fluxed, ready to cast with. hope that helps

[303Guy]

Hi John. [smilie=s:

I'm thinking it isn't necessary to fill the case interior when standing in water but won't do any harm and is extra insurance. Tipping them over gets them out of the way and prevents double annealing and stops the annealing process. Just don't do what I did - dried them in the oven and forgot about them. The next morning they had a dull appearance. I tried one and sure enough, the case head bulged. Had to throw the rest away. I set the temperature to just over boiling, that's all.

I'm going to try the oven trick on some scrap brass first and see what happens.

[ascast]

I have been reasding all the links guys have posted. Somewhere one said "600 degree OK but takes 1 hours", or words to that effect. So my oven at 560 ish, maybe 1 1/2 hours. Truth is I am lazy and the oven will do a couple 1,000 at one time. ON days like today , about zero, that's not a bad thing.

ON the "don't do " list. I once drilled out some reloading blocks, like Midways, so my black powder cases could be washed in the dishwasher, mouths down. It seems to have worked fine but the dry cycle cooked them to a very deep rich black color that was very hard to polish off. NO more dry cycle. lol

[243winxb]

The truth about annealing rifle brass is only the factory can do it correctly in special chambers with a controlled atmosphere. http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/sniper3006/0261.gif

[geargnasher]

That's not the silliest thing I've ever heard, but close. Guess I'd better stick to only shooting factory ammo too, huh?

Gear

[btroj]

Only factories can do it in controlled atmospheres? What? Got a source for that?

I sure hope it wasn't a chain email or off FB.

[Love Life]

Doe run used to anneal all cartridge brass for the ammo companies.

[dragon813gt]

Doe run used to anneal all cartridge brass for the ammo companies.

More half truths spread by a rabble rouser ;)

I tried the lead pot, didn't work. I tried potassium nitrate, salt bath. That one severely burnt me and made a mess all over. I don't need high volume at this point so a socket on a drill works best for me. You can physically see the color change work it's way down the neck. It's extremely easy to control. You don't need to do it in the dark and if you get it red you went to far. One day I will buy the bench source machine :)

[borg]

Has anyone looked at the annealer in the reloading equipment forum?
Jmorris sells a disk and the plans to make one that works very well.
I got one from him , didn't go with the case feeder, and built it for less that $100.
A friend has one of the Girauds, and it's a great machine without having to tink with it.
The Jmorris is faster, but you have to tink with it more.
But for over $400, guess which one I went with.
I've had Jmorris for over 7 or 8 years, and am very happy with it.

[243winxb]

http://www.google.com/patents/US643751 Here is an early one. :bigsmyl2: http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US643751-0.png

[243winxb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ira3dmlclQ4 Want something faster? This one i like. :coffeecom http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ira3dmlclQ4/maxresdefault.jpg Here is another one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYk3_IcB4JI

[btroj]

That is a great setup but what does it really do that we can't do with a torch, lead, or hot sand?
Get the brass to the right temp and it gets softer. End of story. Too hot is bad, too far down the case is bad. Control those two variables and the rest is fine.

I still don't see why it must be done by factories in sealed, controlled atmosphere room.

[mpbarry1]

So. After a lot of research a couple of years ago I decided to just use a small torch and a towel with my fingers. It sounded reasonable that it would get to hot to hang onto way before it softened the case below the shoulder. I got to where I could fairly consistently get the Case to blue before it turned red. That was the sweet spot I figured. It seemed to work fine. I'm not sure of the consistency, but the brass felt fine in the sizing die and shot fine. i would appreciate any feedback. My research led to this:

-Use a small torch at a lower flame
-Roll it in the flame until it turns blue. Cherry red is too much. You just want the break point before red.
- water dropping does nothing to brass. Steel yes, brass no. Just let it cool on a towel.

[higgins]

If a fellow was going to anneal cases by holding them in molten alloy at ~750F or so, anybody have a good suggestion for keeping lead from adhering to the case necks? I've done it this way before and they mostly come out clean of lead but there's always a few that get a little tinning. I was thinking perhaps a quick dip and dry through a soap/water solution might coat the necks enough to keep them clean.

Dip the case down to about the shoulder in powdered graphite, and brush powdered graphite on the inside of the neck.

[blackthorn]

Dip the case down to about the shoulder in powdered graphite, and brush powdered graphite on the inside of the neck.

If at all possible, use pure lead rather than an alloy. Pure lead = no tin.

[gwpercle]

If a fellow was going to anneal cases by holding them in molten alloy at ~750F or so, anybody have a good suggestion for keeping lead from adhering to the case necks? I've done it this way before and they mostly come out clean of lead but there's always a few that get a little tinning. I was thinking perhaps a quick dip and dry through a soap/water solution might coat the necks enough to keep them clean.
Give the inside and outside of the area to be annealed a coat or two of Liquid Wrench Dry Lubricant. It keeps lead from adhearing to the top of a sprue plate , to the underside of the plate and the block top. Stops galling with aluminum moulds. I use the liquid applied with a Q-Tip, two coats and let dry.
Gary

[ascast]

The truth about annealing rifle brass is only the factory can do it correctly in special chambers with a controlled atmosphere.

i cant believe you said that -- and only factory bullets right

[popper]

I think that AC oil Gear uses would work also.

[dtknowles]

So, I guess I should add my two cents. I anneal using the Torch, two fingers and can of water method. I have for years, it works, is easy, does not require more equipment or other disrupting activities. Small flame, hold base with two fingers, rotate the neck in the flame for five to ten count depending on brass size etc. drop in water bucket/can. Drain can shake brass in towel, spread on cookie sheet, dry with heat gun or hair dryer, process as with other once fired brass. Couldn't hardly be easier but I hate doing it and only do it now for hard to find brass or cases that I am forming for wildcats or rare calibers. Other brass I just shoot until the are worn out and then scrap them. I am coming to an decision point on some of my benchrest brass. Do I anneal to get back the consisent neck tension or scrap and start new. I think the pros just scrap and start new.

Tim

[Nrut]

https://www.google.ca/search?q=Fred+Barker+candle+annealing+method&rlz=1C1GGGE_enCA399CA401&oq=Fred+Barker+candle+annealing+method&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8


Again for those who missed it the first time........ [smilie=s:

You guys are a riot! [smilie=p: