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JSH
09-29-2005, 09:24 PM
I started to put this the classifieds, but didn't want to start a long thred there or make it longer than necssary.
K-31 Swiss
I have a set of Lee7.5x55 dies, they work but not to my liking. So I ran across another set on ebite, RCBS. I am thinking they will work better.
The RCBS dies work the living crap out of the Graf's brass and reformed 284. Where as the Lee's seem to be more in line with the way they should be.
Any thoughts or input to this? I am thinking the RCBS may be for the earlier straight pulls?
Jeff

jh45gun
09-30-2005, 01:02 AM
No idea I use the Lee dies and I am perfectly satisfied with them. I use mostly reformed 284 brass.

Rick N Bama
09-30-2005, 03:52 AM
I'm satisified with my Lee dies as well. I've not had a single chambering problem using reformed 284 brass.

Rick

Willbird
09-30-2005, 07:15 AM
Are the ctg. different dimensionally across the 3 models of rifle ?


Bill

Shepherd2
09-30-2005, 08:17 AM
I have a set of Lee dies that work fine for me. I've only used them with Graf brass.

brimic
09-30-2005, 09:14 AM
I use RCBS for reforming .284 and haven't had a single problem yet. I haven't tried Graf's brass, only a few hundred win 284s. I don't know about the RCBS dies 'working the living crap' out of brass either, it doesn't take a whole lot of force to form the brass. Regardless of what die set you use, the shoulder of the .284 brass needs to be set back a bit or it won't chamber. I've found that the most reliable way to resize using my dies to set the shoulder back far enough to chamber is to follow the standard RCBS instructions of screwing the die down 1/4 turn past contact with the shell holder so that the lever cams over.

JSH
09-30-2005, 09:42 AM
Well let me ask another way here. Any of you fellas have the other two Swiss rifles, # doesn't jump here now. I was thinking the earlier rear and mid lug actions had a some what different case spec? Some list dies as the Shmidt Rubin others list as K-31
This was not meant as a rant on lees dies, yes they work. But final finish does leave somthing to be desired IMHO.
The lee starts sizing about 1/3 of the way down the case and will bump the shoulder.
The RCBS startsabout 1/16"-1/8" from the shoulder and sizes all the way down to the web.
No, this is not dirty cases, dirty dies or a lube issue either. Dies have been polished, imperial sizing die wax, dillon spray lube, hornady spray lube. Cases shine like a new penny.

Maven
09-30-2005, 10:11 AM
JSH, Go to the Swiss Rifles site (link below) and look first at "Schmidt Rubins & K-31's" (on the left side of the screen) for dimensional differences between them. If that doesn't answer the question, go to the bottom of the menu and ask the question on the "Forum": Very astute posters there. Btw, I have 2 sets of FL dies that I use for the K-31, but they don't work the brass the same way: The CH set works it a bit more than the Redding.

http://www.swissrifles.com

C1PNR
10-01-2005, 09:52 PM
JSH,

If I read your post correctly and you are loading for the K31, I suggest you buy a set of Hornady dies made specifically for the K31. They ARE different!

mike in co
10-02-2005, 01:57 AM
i was told today that the hornady are correct for k31 and the others are smaller for the earlier chambering( so they overwork the chit out of your brass)..i have lee and only 1/2 neck size and get tons of body sizing...gonna buy hornadys soon...

rocklock
10-02-2005, 03:33 PM
I found that .284 brass resized in a Lee die would not chamber in my 1911 while brass from the same lot resized in an RCBS die worked fine.

Go figgur.

jh45gun
10-03-2005, 02:34 AM
Ever think you had both set different????????????

trooperdan
10-03-2005, 11:13 AM
Redding marks their dies set as being for the K-31 chamber.. bad news is they are series "C" with a list price of $93!!

brimic
10-03-2005, 04:50 PM
I did a comparison of resized .284, once fired winchester .284/7.5 brass, and also a fresh piece of .284 brass resized to fit the chamber.

I used a stoney point headspace tool to measure the shoulder at the base of the neck. If a piece of brass is full length sized with the rcbs dies, it pushes that portion of the neck a good 0.015" beyond where the brass springs back from firing. Screwing the die down to where it just touches the shell plate will resize it more than enough to chamber. I'm guesing that with a 14 pitch thread, backing the die out about a bit past 1/8 turn from the shell plate will give pretty close to the right amount of resizing. I'll experiment with this tomorow and post the results.

This thread is a good heads up. I had just assumed that the K-31 had a tight chamber and from everything I read, I though that I had to screw the die down tight to resize correctly for this cartridge. Now I'm a bit wiser about it.

rocklock
10-03-2005, 08:49 PM
Ever think you had both set different????????????

Well, no. I've kinda done this before.

The RCBS was simply set so that it touched the shellholder.

The Lee was tried that way first, the with an extended shellholder. Nothing worked.

Applying Prussian Blue to a case sized in the Lee and then sizing it in the RCBS showed that the Lee just wasn't sizing down the head of the case enough.

Once the cases were sized down enough with the RCBS the first time the Lee set was fine for subsiquent reloading.

kywoodwrkr
10-21-2005, 04:55 PM
Good review of the differences:
http://p083.ezboard.com/ftheswissriflesdotcommessageboardfrm11.showMessage ?topicID=392.topic
FWIW
Davep

mike in co
10-21-2005, 09:43 PM
guys ...i did spring for a hornady die..and will report as soon as i get a chance..

mike in co
10-31-2005, 12:57 PM
guys ...i did spring for a hornady die..and will report as soon as i get a chance..
it aint hornady...it works the brass like the lee...maybe more....
so who has a redding ??

Maven
10-31-2005, 02:25 PM
mike in co, I have Redding and a CH die set (purchased from EBay; both are in excellent condition). The Redding works the brass (same brass, powder charge, CB) a less than the CH. Other than that, there's little difference that I can see (or feel).

trooperdan
10-31-2005, 03:53 PM
How 'bout trying the collet die from lee that squeezes the neck against a mandril? I would think the .308 die would work for this and likely a few other .30's as well. sooner or later you'll need to full-length resize but this might put off the necessity.

Edited to add that Lee does make the collet die for the 7.5x55! Graf's has it for about $21 if you get the discount, a couple of bucks more if you don't. Graf's also has the Redding die set, specified as being for the K-31, for $43.79 including the C&R FFL discount.

JSH
10-31-2005, 10:44 PM
Dang, there has been some added to this since I last looked at it. I sure had high hopes of the Hornady........
I am to the point of doing a chamber cast and see if a certain friend and associate of mine could open a die up to proper dimensions, figure to use a Lee as I would be out less than the others. But on another thought if Maven has the Ch dies, I wonder what could be done with them on making a die set specific to the K-31's dimensions.
Also on trooperdans input, I don't have anything against the collet or bushing die. But, If I am using the lyman M-die, wouldn't that work the brass of the neck more than needed, thus hardening it quicker? I have looked at the collet die for the 30-30 for quite a while. I had some issues with the 30-30 for a bit, but the M die fixed that, along with making a couple of other 30 cals shoot even better.
Thanks
Jeff

mike in co
11-01-2005, 01:50 AM
what i want...
a die that doesnt touch a thing except the neck if i back it off a LITTLE.

and then just a little shoulder case dia resizie if wanted.

BOTH current dies, at half neck resizing, are working the heck in resizing the rest of the case.

i now understand why someone said my norma case's would not last long....crap they will die soon if i use these dies as they are desgned.

i may call redding

Maven
11-01-2005, 10:01 AM
mike in co, Are reloading for a K-31? If so, "the procedure" as per the Swiss Rifle Forum is to FL size your brass. Having said that, I confess to not doing so, but sizing only enough to leave 1/16" of the neck (above the case shoulder) unsized. Cases sized this way easily chamber in two K-31's. As for case life, I got as many as 18 firings/resizings from the "T-Swiss" marked brass with loads of 22gr. AA 5744 or 47-48gr. IMR 5010 (mag. primers + .7cc Bf) and CB's weighing 155gr. or more. Btw, my Graf's 7.5 x 55mm brass has gone through 4 such cycles (same loads) and appears to be as good as new.

mike in co
11-01-2005, 10:22 AM
yep its a k-31. i dont care what the guys on the swiss formum do when reloading. most of us (??) know that in most bolt guns, re-using brass fired from one gun, neck sized only will perform better and last longer. it fits the chamber , aligns the boolit and increases brass life by minimizing the 'working' that hardens brass.
my half neck sized brass performed excellently putting me in first place with a 199-11x in our yearly 200 yd outlaw sniper match( vintage mil rifles).

Maven
11-01-2005, 01:50 PM
mike in co, Reread my last post: 18 firings from partially FL-sized brass isn't exactly poor case life. If you go the route of the Lee collet die, let us know about neck tension and chambering,* and at some future date, case life.

*Straight-pull actions are bolt-actions, though with weak camming power, hence the concern with chambering & FL-sizing.

mike in co
11-02-2005, 01:14 AM
maven,
my concern is i'm currently shooting a 135 condom at 3000 fps.........so i'm not currently using a low pressure boolit load.
the smallest amount of brass sizing that functions in the k31 action is my goal.


so has a k31 shooter out there tried a redding die ???

Bret4207
11-02-2005, 08:47 AM
Someone mentioned using a collet die and another guy was concerned that the collet die would work the brass more than a regular die after expanding with an M-die. I don't see how the collet die would work the brass "more" than a regular die. Especially if you're crimping. The collet die is more of a neck sizer, and much cheaper than buyig a RCBS/Redding neck sizing die. Might just be the ticket. FWIW- my Swiss dies are ancient Herters I got in the back room of a gunny shop. Haven't even had them outta the box yet. Wonder what problems I'll have...

mike in co
11-02-2005, 01:33 PM
just off the phone with redding tech support. he says the dies should be marked 7.5 swiss for the 1911's and 7.5x55 for the k31. having said that i think everyone should look at thier dies and report in. i think some distribution points are using 7.5x55 for marketing, not realizing there is suppose to be a difference in the two.
redding markets thiers as k31...but he could not find his drawing this am...so not sure what the shoulder abd base deminsions are.

looks like i'll have to buy one to find out.

i have access to redding at about $36 for a k31 sizing die......
if i get enough interest i could put it in group buys...

nexttttttttt.........

StarMetal
11-02-2005, 01:45 PM
mike

Who's your access for Redding dies, Vegas Tools in Boulder?

Joe

trooperdan
11-02-2005, 02:29 PM
Graf's lists the Redding K-31 neck sizing die for $32.79, with the FFL discount. Anyone with a C&R FFL can get that price.

mike in co
11-02-2005, 07:20 PM
Graf's lists the Redding K-31 neck sizing die for $32.79, with the FFL discount. Anyone with a C&R FFL can get that price.
the graf price sounds good to me...at 4.35 flat priority mail.
i have access to an ffl, but we gotta pay taxes...so if someone else wants to honcho a deal please step in.
my contact is redding thru my ffl, but we are at step two in thier pricing, it does get better with more volume than we do......

i want the fl die, pn 91235, not a neck die....a fl bushing die would be ideal.
my cost on the fl is aprox 35 with local tax.( no option on the tax, if delivered thru my ffl)

JSH
12-01-2005, 01:34 PM
Well this thread has settled down a bit, so I will see what any one has found thus far. I am going to see what I can find in the way of 30x284 dies. This may be the ticket? I would imagine they are pricey, but what the heck, we already bought some pretty pricey rifles pretty cheap didn't we?
Jeff

djenkins
12-14-2005, 01:46 AM
I've got several of the Lee Collet dies. I have a custom one for the 7.5x55. Before I got that one I used the Enfield die (right length) with the mandrel from my .308 die. The .308 is reputed to work but it is short and requires a washer.

Dennis Jenkins


How 'bout trying the collet die from lee that squeezes the neck against a mandril? I would think the .308 die would work for this and likely a few other .30's as well. sooner or later you'll need to full-length resize but this might put off the necessity.

Edited to add that Lee does make the collet die for the 7.5x55! Graf's has it for about $21 if you get the discount, a couple of bucks more if you don't. Graf's also has the Redding die set, specified as being for the K-31, for $43.79 including the C&R FFL discount.

mike in co
12-21-2005, 12:57 AM
ok after a bit of a wait i finally have the redding die( 7.5x55 , pn 91235)

this is it !
if you have a k31 this is the correct fl die.

i i backed it out about one and a half turns from the shell holder, it does half the neck and just does touch the case at the base.

cost was about 36 or so with taxes and delivery.

i got a lee 7.5 swiss(1911) die for sale !(sold,soldsold)
( i was able to return the hornady die to midway as it was the WRONG die.)

KYRick
12-22-2005, 01:11 AM
I called Grafs yesterday to order a Redding set for the K-31 and they are backordered. She said they should be in soon so if ya want one now you need to look elsewhere. [smilie=b:
Rick