PB cast boolits in a .357 mag contender?

[rosewood]

Well, been learning a lot about cast boolits and think I have dilemma that can't be overcome. The general consensus is that to prevent leading, the boolit has to properly fit the throat to seal off hot gases from torching the edges of the boolit on the way by. My .357 mag contender barrel has such a long lead, that you can not seat a boolit far enough to contact the rifling. So no matter what I do, the gases will pass the boolit down the chamber before the boolit enters the throat area. Ergo, I am not gonna be able to shoot a PB boolit without leading correct?

Anyone have a solution to this, next to rechambering the barrel to a max or using a ridiculously long boolit? Or am I missing something? I suppose powder coating the boolits may be a solution? By the way, I did drop in a max cartridge, and it is too long and would need to be trimmed back to chamber.

Thanks,

Rosewood
"Boolit caster in training."

[MtGun44]

Over thinking.

Try it, it will probably be fine. Don't worry about problems that haven't actually come up yet.

People successfully shoot lead in long throated chambers, although it is possible that
accuracy will be less than maximum if the boolit is unsupported quite a ways.

[btroj]

Less thinking, more shooting. Never, ever solve a problem that doesn't exist. You don't know you have a problem, do you?

Load up some ammo and go shoot. See what happens. Leading is more than just fit and fit is far more than just seating to touch the lands.

[JohnH]

Have no idea what your chamber actually looks like or even when the barrel was made. However, NEF made 357 barrels that would accept 360DW brass, you can find it here... https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/360-DW-Brass/ The case is longer than 357 Mag yet shorter than 357 Max. Another approach is the RCBS 35-200 or the Lyman 358205. TC for a time cut their barrel throats deep as a great many of thiem were being used in the sillywet games. My Contender barrel is an early vintage 10" octagonal in original condition. I've no idea how long the throat is, it accepts the RCBS 35-200 just fine yet shoots the Lee 357-158-RF better than well. At 40 yards with 3.5 grains of Red Dot (not more than 750 fps) it is 100% on a 6" plate standing. (I have a Millet red dot mounted on it, any good red dot is highly recommended) Shootin' it will tell you what you need. I cast with COWW, no added anything if you're interested in alloy.

[rosewood]

No, I did try it. Got severe leading. Had to use a bunch of elbow grease to get it out. Then I started thinking and come up with the long throat as the issue. However, after JohnH mentioned keeping it slow, maybe I need to back it down. I was pushing probably close to 1100-1200 with 6.5gr of Bullseye. I had seen where others were pushing PB boolits that fast in guns where they fit the throat well and no leading. Maybe I need to back it down some. I am using COWW. My barrel is a new production 2014 12" barrel. I have dropped the boolit in the chamber and measured the depth to the breech, then add length of the boolit to get the max OAL, and it is outside the case with every boolit I have tried.

Thanks,

Rosewood

[btroj]

What bullet? Why that load of Bullseye? You are hammering the bullet pretty hard with that load.
What diameter bullet? What alloy?
Lots of things can be done to help reduce the chance of leading.
Nothing will ever lead like a hard, undersized bullet.

[rosewood]

What bullet? Why that load of Bullseye? You are hammering the bullet pretty hard with that load.
What diameter bullet? What alloy?
Lots of things can be done to help reduce the chance of leading.
Nothing will ever lead like a hard, undersized bullet.

Lee 158gr PB. Was just trying out a load in one of the manuals I had, maybe the Lyman. 0.358 with 0.358 sizing die. COWW.

Back to my original question, if leading is caused by hot gas blowing around the boolit, how will sizing or alloy make a difference if gas blows around the boolit before it enters the throat?

[725]

Custom trim some .360 DW brass and have at it!

[btroj]

Lee 158gr PB. Was just trying out a load in one of the manuals I had, maybe the Lyman. 0.358 with 0.358 sizing die. COWW.

Back to my original question, if leading is caused by hot gas blowing around the boolit, how will sizing or alloy make a difference if gas blows around the boolit before it enters the throat?
Use a slower powder. Slower powder gives peak pressure slower. This lets the bullet get into the throat and seal things off. A larger bullet can also let this happen a bit quicker. Also, cut the alloy 50/50 with lead and see what happens. A softer alloy can help keep the seal along the trailing edge of the lands.

If it were me I would go to a 50/50 alloy, size to .359 or .360 and use a moderate charge of 2400.

[Ben]

If it were me I would go to a 50/50 alloy, size to .359 or .360 and use a moderate charge of 2400.

Now you're getting the hay down where the goats can get to it.

Ben

[dudel]

However, after JohnH mentioned keeping it slow, maybe I need to back it down. I was pushing probably close to 1100-1200 with 6.5gr of Bullseye.

I'd slow down the powder. How about a switch from Bullseye to 2400? You may be asking too much of Bullseye.

[ShooterAZ]

I shoot all manner of cast boolits in my .357 Contender, fantastic accuracy and no leading. I shoot a lot of 38 specials in it too. Don't worry about chamber length. Size the boolit to .358, use a good lube. If you are getting leading, your boolits are undersized or your lube is inadequate.

[ofreen]

My .357 mag contender barrel has such a long lead, that you can not seat a boolit far enough to contact the rifling. So no matter what I do, the gases will pass the boolit down the chamber before the boolit enters the throat area. Ergo, I am not gonna be able to shoot a PB boolit without leading correct?
."

i don't believe you are over-thinking anything. This sounds like Contender barrels from the 80's. Not only were the throats long, they were also way too big in diameter. I had a Super 14 44 mag barrel with a throat that would swallow a 325 JDJ bullet. (Giving new meaning for the term "Deep Throat). It was a mediocre shooter with jacketed bullets, and hopeless with cast. I did a chamber cast and sent the measurements with the barrel back to T-C. They replaced the barrel with another that was better, but still too long of a throat in my opinion. It shoots Ok, but just OK. I have a 41 mag super 14 barrel from the late 70's with a much shorter throat that is very accurate. There is a reason why people got into the business of building custom Contender barrels.

[rosewood]

May try 2400. Don't have much left and use it mainly in my 10" 7TCU. Haven't seen any for sale since before Sandy Hook. I guess my thinking on the faster powder, is from the reads on obturation. Figured a faster powder builds pressure faster making the boolit fill out sooner. Maybe that is the wrong thinking.

[1Shirt]

Just my opinion, but I don't think there is any place in 357 loading for Bullseye.
1Shirt!

[dudel]

May try 2400. Don't have much left and use it mainly in my 10" 7TCU. Haven't seen any for sale since before Sandy Hook. I guess my thinking on the faster powder, is from the reads on obturation. Figured a faster powder builds pressure faster making the boolit fill out sooner. Maybe that is the wrong thinking.

It would tell you if a slower powder is the right track. There are plenty of powders slower than Bullseye that are appropriate for 357Mag. 2400 is just one of my favorites, that's why I brought it up. H110 works well also.

[gnostic]

I've always had serious leading, pushing cast bullets, with fast burning powders...Why not go to Blue Dot, 2400 or 296?

[rosewood]

I've always had serious leading, pushing cast bullets, with fast burning powders...Why not go to Blue Dot, 2400 or 296?

I have plenty of BD and H110, so will give them a try. Again, was trying Bull because I thought it would be better to prevent leading, I guess the opposite is true. Up to this point, with all the post I have made on here regarding casting and leading, no one has made that statement to use slower powders to reduce leading. By the way, I have always used BD or H110 for 357 mag with Jword bullets. Thanks, Rosewood

[dilly]

I have plenty of BD and H110, so will give them a try. Again, was trying Bull because I thought it would be better to prevent leading, I guess the opposite is true. Up to this point, with all the post I have made on here regarding casting and leading, no one has made that statement to use slower powders to reduce leading. By the way, I have always used BD or H110 for 357 mag with Jword bullets. Thanks, Rosewood

It's true but it's a little tricky. Sometimes the extra velocity given by the slower powders can contribute toward leading. It might be more accurate to say that at the same velocity, or even better at the same pressure, the slower powder will help prevent leading.

[JohnH]

Lee 158gr PB. Was just trying out a load in one of the manuals I had, maybe the Lyman. 0.358 with 0.358 sizing die. COWW.

Back to my original question, if leading is caused by hot gas blowing around the boolit, how will sizing or alloy make a difference if gas blows around the boolit before it enters the throat?

Your lube can make one heck of a difference in this. A few years back a gave a friend who was new to reloading a batch of that boolit. He loaded up a max charge of H110 and was shooting them in a Ruger Blackhawk, no leading. I was shocked. At the same time another friend was using them in a Blackhawk as well as using the Lee 429-200-RF in a Freedom Arms "94 in 44 Special. He was loading a charge of Power Pistol that was clocking 1200 fps, no leading. He had used lots of commercial cast and told me whatever I was doing was the best cast he'd ever used. He was shocked when I told him it was simple COWW and Felix Lube. I've never had a problem using Felix and I've shot some bad combinations that should have leaded ike the dickens, just to see what would happen. I'm pretty well convinced that where Felix Lube is concerned, there is something to the idea that some lube is blown ahead of the boolit as it leaves the case mouth and pre coats the bore. It is the only explanation I have for shooting boolits at 1600 fps+ with a wrinkle in the driving bands and the boolits didn't lead. Not once or twice, but I regularly don't cull such stuff I'm going to lube with Felix cause it don't create problems. If you've not tried this lube, make some and try it, it's hard to walk away from, it's that good. All that said, if I was going to be shooting full velocity loads, AA#9, 2400, H110 and Lil Gun would be my likely choices. Leave Bullseye, Red Dot, Green Dot, TiteGroup and similar speeds for light loads.

Edit: PS I need to add that the miscast wrinkled driving band boolits I shoot are rifle boolits wearing gas checks.

[rosewood]

JohnH, I don't own a lubrisizer, will it work as tumble lube? Thanks.

[Mr Peabody]

I use two plain base designs in the 357 with 5gr's of Unique. I size .359 and no leading.

[popper]

Try HiTek gold 1035 coating. $35 to coat >50K of boolits. Also go to the slower powder. Using WST in 9 & 40 I get leading, change to 231 - no leading. Both using coated boolits. Shot ~ 50 PB AC in 300AAC @ 1750 - no leading.

[rosewood]

I had leading in .40 and .45 and bought some powder coat and put some on the .40, but have yet to load and test. Tumble lube is so much easier than any of the other options and I was hoping it would be that easy, but starting to seem to be a bit more difficult.

[JohnH]

No you gotta have a sizer to apply it. I imagine that the firmness could be upped so that you could pan lube with it, but I couldn't tell you how to get there. do you apply more than one coat of tumble lube? Are you using straight Lee Liquid Alox or an alox blend like 45-45 -10? I too tried powder coating and found that it was too time/attention consuming for my liking. I had good results with it, but processing 300 boolits took near three hours time. I'm using 45-45-10 right now in my 45 ACP, 45 Colt and a low velocity loading of 44 magnum in both handgun and rifle, have had good results with it, but not driving anything faster than 1000 FPS, so I don't have any experience with higher velocities/pressures. I know that straight Lee Liquid Alox works quite well at magnum hadgun pressure and velocity, better than I care like to admit. It was knowing that which made me OK with trying 45-45-10. I think most of the problem you've described though is just too fast a powder for the velocity.

[rosewood]

Yes, I use 45-45-10

[Lonegun1894]

At least I'm not the only one experimenting with Contenders. And I LOVE the .357 Mag in just about anything.