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ThaDoubleJ
02-18-2015, 09:33 PM
I got bored over the winter, so I bought these
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc519/ThaDoubleJ/22%20Reloading%20Stuff_zpsxkysmwbz.jpg
Made these
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc519/ThaDoubleJ/22%20Bator_zpsrj76utkz.jpg
And stuck em in these
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc519/ThaDoubleJ/22%20Bator%20Loaded%20in%205.7_zpsgorcjqpd.jpg
It was finally nice today, and I had a really good excuse to get to the range, so I hauled the FsN along to try out these boolits.
I used three different types of lube on them, Lee Liquid Alox (LLA), a mixture of LLA, Johnson's Paste Wax, and mineral spirits called 45/45/10, and some TAC. This was my first try with both LLA and 45/45/10, have used and been happy with TAC in the past.
Here's the data, some notes on the bottom....not everything was awesome

CCI500, 55gr Boolits, GC, Blue Dot, 2x Brass, COAL 1.381 - EA threaded barrel

Lee Liquid Alox
5.2gr Hi 1471, Lo 1419, Av 1443, ES 52 - No Pressure, clean neck
5.4gr Hi 1563, Lo 1499, Av 1531, ES 64 - No Pressure
5.6gr Hi 1620, Lo 1579, Av 1597, ES 41 - Slight primer flow
5.8gr Hi 1675, Lo 1638, Av 1656, ES 37 - Medium primer flow (Less than 197)
Primers just starting to show flattening

45/45/10
5.2gr Hi 1522, Lo 1403, Av 1465, ES 119 - No Pressure, One boolit sideways
5.4gr Hi 1633, Lo 1534, Av 1573, ES 99 - Very slight primer flow
5.6gr Hi 1610, Lo 1557, Av 1590, ES 53 - Same as 5.4
5.8gr Hi 1689, Lo 1585, Av 1647, ES 104 - Same as 5.4

RandyRat TAC Lube
5.2gr Hi 1622, Lo 1452, Av 1563, ES 170 - Slight primer flow
5.4gr Hi 1602, Lo 1516, Av 1561, ES 86 - Slight primer flow
5.6gr Hi 1666, Lo 1559, Av 1629, ES 107 - Slight primer flow, recoil higher than 197
5.8gr Hi 1683, Lo 1652, Av 1668, ES 31 - Medium primer flow, brass landed 5 feet closer

SS197 Hi 1731, Lo 1713, Av 1722, ES 18

As you can see
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc519/ThaDoubleJ/Leonidas%20and%20Ultralight/Sideways%20Bullet_zpsvmrxmpbw.jpg
One early boolit hit the target sideways, from 7 yards away. About 30% of them exhibited some form of keyholing, though never as bad as the one above.

I'm a pretty mediocre caster, my lead melter is probably too cold, so my guess right now is that my bases are crooked, meaning my gas checks are crooked, meaning my boolits come out crooked.

Some things I learned:
Do not lube with TAC prior to seating the gas checks, they won't seat properly, and the boolits won't seat in the case mouths properly.
This is the cheapest way you can shoot your 5.7, if you don't mind some keyholes, or you're a better caster than I am.
There was no leading at all in my barrel at any point during this testing.
Function was 99%, had one FTF, first round in the mag, maybe my fault.
TAC smells wonderful when you shoot it, LLA not so much.
This method of reloading takes forever.
If I was going to pursue this route, and I may, I'd get me a case mouth expander and a Lee factory crimp die, pretty tough getting those flat gas checks into the case mouths.
Accuracy was acceptable for plinking, you'd be on steel all day, even with the keyholes.

Harter66
02-19-2015, 03:06 PM
Apples and oranges .

I had a 40 that key holed with the alloy and ageing that worked fine in 9mm and 357 . Water dropping was the change that fixed the key holes. It closed groups also but I attribute that to the boolits going straight line.

ThaDoubleJ
02-19-2015, 09:24 PM
Harter, you lost me there, can you clarify your post please?

Harter66
02-19-2015, 10:04 PM
The cure for the tumbling of the 40 was a harder finished boolit . I was using the same alloy air cooled in 9mm for top loads and in 357 for both a pistol and carbine in loads well into 357 speeds .

I figured someone would have chimed in with fit causing the tumbling which is probably more common.

I don't have experience with the 5.7 but some times other things can be applied to a situation.

ThaDoubleJ
02-19-2015, 10:17 PM
Ok, makes sense. I've never quenched boolits before. I only cast .38, REALs, RBs, and these Bators, and all my boolits kinda suck, but the keyholing is new to me.

ThaDoubleJ
02-20-2015, 12:27 AM
Dies are Lee, and yeah, the seating stem is for Vmaxs and such. I also had to apply quite a bit of force to get the flat gas check to start in the heavily chamfered, but un expanded mouth.

quilbilly
02-20-2015, 12:50 AM
I slightly open the mouth of all my 22 cases (Hornet, 222, and 223) after sizing and before seating. Makes seating easy and removes a variable (shaving etc.). The tool I use to open the mouth of all my rifle cases is an old sharpening steel I bought at a garage sale. The tip of the sharpening steel is nicely tapered and round so I can use it on any for my rifle brass from 22 to 338.

ThaDoubleJ
02-20-2015, 08:56 PM
Added an expander and crimper to my wish list on Midway, I'll check back in after I've tried that route.

45-70 Chevroner
02-20-2015, 09:41 PM
Question first. Is you mold a six cavity? I had that same boolit in a six cavity, and the biggest problum was getting the mold hot enough. Sprue cut timing was critical also. If you cut to soon you will have lopsided bases. If you wait to long it can be difficult to cut and you can break the sprue cut handle. I have also found that for shooting 22 cal., they need to be water quinched. This will help in the sizing process as the boolit can handle the pressure of pushing it in to the sizing die better. You really need to get a top punch that fits the nose of the boolit better.

ThaDoubleJ
02-21-2015, 02:03 AM
Mold is a two cavity. When the sprues started getting hard to cut, I'd place the mold back on the melter to heat it up some more. The nose damage is from my seating die, don't have a top punch with the Lee system, they just go up into that can on top.

45-70 Chevroner
02-22-2015, 12:07 AM
What is causing the little ring on the nose of the boolit. That should not happen when you push it up through the Lee sizeing die.
Sorry about that it just came to me, the ring is caused when you seat the boolit in the case.
I think you can get a different bullet seat that will work better. Just call the company that made the reloading dies and tell them what the problem is. Good luck.

khmer6
03-05-2015, 12:49 AM
Nice work in the cast. I haven't been able to shoot cast thru the FsN. Still have a boat load of those blue tips EA was selling for dirt back then. Maybe the bullets are too big for it? Have you tried the NOE 37gr? I'm not sure if 55gr lead could stabilize? If I remember 55gr jacketed was barely stabilizing. I use about the same charges with blue dot as well. Shot a hell of a lot better with a hot load of blue dot than the ss197

ThaDoubleJ
03-12-2017, 01:12 PM
Update on this old thread. I sent some of these to a friend, and he seated them longer and they flew straight. I located an old Lyman 225450 and quit using Bators in the FsN, and that solved my problem. I do plan to pick up a 22TCM9R at some point though, and I think these Bators will be perfect for it.

joatmon
03-13-2017, 12:36 AM
What weight does your 225450 drop at?
Aaron