Round ball in .223

[BrianL]

I had not seen this posted before so........
I have 6 25 lb bags of #4 buck that I inherited recently, along with a truckload of equipment.
I have been messing with the RB in .30 and .32 cal so I miked up a handfull of these and found them to average .226 - .228.

I had to try them. Primer only was a squibb that had to be knocked out. I settled on 3 grains of Unique (it was in the Uniflow).

I was amazed to say the least. I am no pistolero but for 15 yds offhand, this shows promise. At 378 to the pound, the price of 22 lr has become a little less of an issue. The grandkids are going to love this.

[scottfire1957]

Nice!


Edit: John Barnsness did an article in Handloader magazine last year that included this very thing. Might be nice to find a copy and try his loads.

[BrianL]

Do not get that mag. Do you have a copy of the loads?

[scottfire1957]

Somewhere I do. I will look.

[scottfire1957]

Well, to paraphrase Brian Williams, I "misremembered."

The article is about reduced loads to replicate .22lr and .22mag loading in several other .22 caliber rifles.

The no.4 buck load was in a .22 hornet. If he tried it in .223, he didn't write about it.

Mea culpa.

Sounds like you've worked up a load to be explored!

Magazine was Handloader no. 290, June 2014.

[BrianL]

Thanks for looking that up. Out of curiosity, what was the Hornet loading?

[scottfire1957]

1gr red dot. 887 fps. 3in at 25 yds. Ruger no.1B rifle.

[BrianL]

If the weather ever permits, I will clock these and post the results. I only have the 10' barrel with slow twist.

[Mk42gunner]

Man that's a lot of primers to buy. 378x25x6=56,700 rounds (approximately).

Sounds like fun.

Robert

[BrianL]

Man that's a lot of primers to buy. 378x25x6=56,700 rounds (approximately).

Sounds like fun.

Robert

I will surely need to stock up on primers. From what I am seeing, this may be the only way to let the kids do much shooting this year.
This and the 32 cal muzzleloaders.

The LGS is selling single boxes of 22 lr for $6.50 so that's $13.00 per hundred, but are limited to one box per visit (will that ever end?).
These RB loads cost $2.80 for primers and $1.20 for powder and if purchased, the balls would have been $.52 (based on $50 a bag?) so that is roughly $4.50 per hundred. I am wishing that I had a rifle with a slow twist. I will try a few in the 1-8" AR just for giggles.
Based upon the load listed by Scottfire1957, there are a lot of different possibilities.
Hopefully the weather will improve for the weekend and I can get out to my range.

[aspangler]

This should work pretty well in my 1-12 twist Weatherby. Think I'll try it if I can find some shot.

[BrianL]

Well, I got to looking at these under a 4x microscope. They are very out of round and bumpy, like the bag of shot had been dropped more than once. Anything but what we would consider uniform.
I had ten more of them loaded and when I got home I set up again, same distance but tried to rest it for a better idea of the potential. I started out with a jacket thrown over a lawn chair resting the butt on the jacket. That is the high shot from a cold barrel. Then I repositioned so that I was resting on the forearm and shot the rest of the ten. By the way, am I the only one with a poor Contender trigger?
I feel a little redemption as a couple of my 'friends' were saying that I should not have posted the first embarrassing group. You know who you are!
It dawned on me that while this open bag of shot is useable, there are three or more manufacturers in that pile of bags and that it is 30 plus years old. If I find that I have a bunch that is suitable, I will pass some along.

[scottfire1957]

Nice, again.

Barnsness did state that he sorted for roundness, but what you have looks great already.

[Mk42gunner]

You could try rolling some of the worst offenders between two pieces of steel to get them roundish again. Is that even a word?

I have never seen any bulk stored buck shot that was totally round. I think that if it passes a visual "its kind of round" test, it should be okay; at least for under 25 yards, maybe 50.

Robert

[Earlwb]

I found this quite interesting about using round balls in a .223. it can come in quite handy for those times that 22LR ammo is hard to get or outrageously priced. I still have a old bag or two of #4 buckshot around here too. Thanks for the information.

[Blackwater]

Great post. Thanks, Bryan.

[Dusty Bannister]

I play with both #3 and #4 shot in the 223 and the 243 (6MM TCU) I do size to 225 and to 245 and apply LLA to the balls. A small charge of Bullseye and apply the CFVentures soft gas check, then press the ball into the case mouth. Align the ball so the sized portion is touching the mouth of the case and press firmly. The LLA will help hold the ball in place. And a fired case is just fine for this purpose. Great for small pests and plinking. At 15 yards, a ragged hole, at 20 yards sub inch group, at 25 yards, you are going to chance missing a beverage can. Just fun shooting and cheap.

[richhodg66]

I was just going to ask if you lubed the shot before loading.

I've been wanting to try some of the plain based NOE 45 grain WFN I use in .22 Hornet in the .223, I need to get moving on that.

[MarkP]

You could try rolling some of the worst offenders between two pieces of steel to get them roundish again. Is that even a word?

I have never seen any bulk stored buck shot that was totally round. I think that if it passes a visual "its kind of round" test, it should be okay; at least for under 25 yards, maybe 50.

Robert

"Spheroidicity"-----

I have never seen a 25 bag of buck shot. Headed buckshot is tumbled in a rotary tumbler with a few rags until polished and round. Ball bearings use a similar procedure, for initial processing prior to the lapping operations. Tumbling removes the satellite rings. Old process tumbled steel bearings in a lime (cement not the green fruit) water mix if tumbled too long they would become ellipsoidal.

I have used 22 cal air rifle pellets in 22-250 & 22 Hornet with similar results primer only and small changes of Reddot; always thought about turning a solid brass case and machine for a 209 primer.

I had surprisingly good results using 0.361" RB's in my 350 Rem Mags out to 75 yds. (3 gr Red dot yielded 850 ft/s)

[BrianL]

I play with both #3 and #4 shot in the 223 and the 243 (6MM TCU) I do size to 225 and to 245 and apply LLA to the balls. A small charge of Bullseye and apply the CFVentures soft gas check, then press the ball into the case mouth. Align the ball so the sized portion is touching the mouth of the case and press firmly. The LLA will help hold the ball in place. And a fired case is just fine for this purpose. Great for small pests and plinking. At 15 yards, a ragged hole, at 20 yards sub inch group, at 25 yards, you are going to chance missing a beverage can. Just fun shooting and cheap.
I have never heard of the soft checks. What is the max speed that they are recommended for in rifle? I had been wondering about the #3 buck in 243. I am assuming that there is no belling of the case? Where did you get your shot?

[Dusty Bannister]

I have never heard of the soft checks. What is the max speed that they are recommended for in rifle? I had been wondering about the #3 buck in 243. I am assuming that there is no belling of the case? Where did you get your shot?

Following is the URL

http://www.caversham16.freeserve.co.uk/

You are shooting a pure lead round ball that only grips the rifling by a very small area of contact. Forget "speed". If you expect speed, shoot a cast bullet. I do not bell the case if I am shooting these with cases that have already been fired in the firearm. It would not hurt to use the "M" die if you have one, so give it a try both ways.

Hornady #3 buck comes in a 5 pound box and is product number 6413. It is not cheap, but a little goes a long way. Use a fast pistol powder, one that is not position sensitive and does not require a lot of pressure to burn clean.

You are pretty much on your own for data, but like most cast bullet shooting, you will not find a happy spot trying to shoot a round ball at any significant speed. I mostly use the SGC for it's ability to seal the bore and to keep the powder in the case if the ball falls out in handling.

The URL will give you answers to any other questions you might have. Good luck.

[BrianL]

Thanks for the link.When I asked about the soft checks in rifle, I was referring to use with a cast bullet. Considering my absolute lack of clarity in that regard, I can see how you didn't get the connection. Have you tried them with regular cast bullets?

Edit: I had gone to this link http://cliffsgunsmithing.com/Cat_SGC.htm and it didn't have any info.

Your link is much more informative

[Texas by God]

I have used #1 buck with a little Red Dot in my 30-30 Win model 94. Single shot only- had to raise the aperture all the way up but shot well enough for a brace of squirrels!

[Digital Dan]

There be a couple of twists that may be of interest to those shooting balls like this. One is to dedicate specific brass to the task, enlarge the flash hole and use primer only for power. A wee pinch of powder won't hurt, but should not be necessary. Another is to incorporate a shelf in the case neck by starting with a sized neck and only partially expanding, sufficient that the hall is half diameter or greater within the neck. If expanded properly a thumb seat will work.

Lubing with LLA works, but so do just about any style of soft wax based lube. SPG, beeswax etc....

[GhostHawk]

So I'm reading this and BING! Light bulb went off.

I have a sharpshooter buckshot mold in .22 caliber. A single Shot Handi rifle in .223.
Several pounds of Red Dot. Sounds like fun!

[dudel]

Thanks for looking that up. Out of curiosity, what was the Hornet loading?

For 22Hornet, I use a .22 pellet, with primer only. Surprisingly good accuracy out to 25 yards out of a Handi rifle.

I seat the pellet flush with the case mouth.