View Full Version : load density and light loads

03-01-2008, 07:51 PM
I am about to try some paper patch bullets . I am very new to paperpatched bullets in centerfire cartridges . I want to start with light loads but 100% load density is supossed to a very good idea with PP cartridges. I am thinking of using dacron filler to top up the rest of the case to achieve 100% load density. has anyone tried this before? what were the results?

45 2.1
03-01-2008, 09:18 PM
I wouldn't use filler for this at all. You don't say which cartridge and patched boolit specs your useing. It will make a difference.

03-02-2008, 05:15 PM
I am trying these bullets in the 250 savage case. not my first choice for a paper patched cartridge, but I got myself into this by my ussual over active enthusiasm. After reading Ross Seyfreid's article on paper patching and seeing his molds for straight sided PP boolits I got all fired up and did a check of the goodies in the shop. I machined up a universal holder and sprue cutter for these machined molds. I also had some 1" aluminum round in the shop so
I had to try to make a mold . having a .250 reamer in the shop I decided to try and make a mold for my savage. More as a proof of concept than anything. well it worked the boolits slide right out and they looked pretty good. So I have about 75 of these 105 grain smooth sided trunicated nose bullets patched up and ready to go . The bullets a .250 in diameter and are a slide into the bore with just a little pressure. They have been patched to .257 . I have machined up a custom M die to the specs suggested in Paul Mathews " The Paper Jacket". so I think I am ready to give this a shot.Most loads that I have found that will keep this bullet below 2200 fps, where PP boolits are suposed to shine, leave a air space in the case. Again having read " The Paper Jacket " to many times I was hoping for 100% load density. I actually prefer this in all my handloads even with J-word bullets. Light loads may work fine without a filler but I have very little experience with PP boolits so I am trying to follow the guidlines that I have read . This is the first attempt in cartridges but I have been useing them in my muzzleloader. I think that most PP boolits get loaded in front of a casefull of Black powder so this is a bit off the beaten path but I really think that PP boolits have great potential in a lot of centerfire cartridges.

03-03-2008, 01:42 AM

Sounds like you made a push out mould. I have been making those for many years both for PP boolits and even for naked lead with a grease cookie behind the boolit. Quick and easy to make and they work well.

I'm no PP expert but have done some for .303 British, .308 Win. and .44 mag. The advice I have gotten is boolit at bore size for smokeless powder then patch to groove size. Looks like you are about there. Also, a fairly hard boolit would likely be required for the 250 Savage probably a wheelweight lead mix or even ACWW.

If the boolit is hard you may want to roll them under a file as Ross Seyfreid did for "J" bullets. My .303 seems to like knurled boolits better than smooth.

As for fillers if you are going to use one, be very careful and start with a very light load then work up. I have loaded PP in the .303 British both with and without filler but I use either cornmeal or Cream O' Wheat. You can't just go tossing a filler into any old load - even dacron - as it will increase pressures. I start well below the "J" bullet starting load if I add filler then work up.

I think you should start with standard cast boolit loads from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook or another cast bullet loading manual using same weight boolits and see how it goes. Maybe choose the bulkier powders that fill more of the cartridge. I don't think you will need a filler.

Also, the Lyman manual does have several PP boolit loads for .30 cal. using slower powders and reaching much higher velocities than typical cast boolit loads. This may give you an idea of the types of powders used for 250 Savage "J" bullet loads that may be suitable. If all goes well you may wind up using "J" bullet loads and have a real screamer. Lyman claims velocities of 3000 FPS are possible using PP boolits.


03-03-2008, 11:28 AM
I think I am going to try without the fillers for now and see what types of results I get. You are right this mold is like the push out molds but by useing a material with a high expansion rate when heated such as aluminum or brass the boolit simply slides out.
Right now if I can get the boolits to work at any velocity I will be happy. When I get a little more experience I may try pushing the velocity envelope .

I noticed that you are from Castlegar .I worked with real pleasant fellow from there a couple years ago. His name escapes me at the moment but He used to run the greyhound station there with his wife . He had a convertable mustang and I have a old streetrod so we had a fair bit to talk about. from his descriptions it seems like you live in a pretty nice neck of the woods.

03-04-2008, 01:36 AM
I generally make my push out moulds from steel. Preferably decent machining steel but I've used plain old cold rolled too. For larger bore of .44 and up I just single point bore them and for the smaller ones like .30 cal. I make a D reamer. After machining/reaming I usually lap them then make the nose form full diameter and a very close slide fit. As long as they are smooth inside the boolits slide out easily.

I just made a 12 gauge slug mold for a fellow to test slugs of a design he came up with and it was ideally suited to the push out mould. Those literally fall out of the mould.

With a full diameter nose form you can make an adjustable weight mould easily but I have also made them with a bullet shaped reamer and just an "ejector" pin to push on the nose. That worked too.

Yes I like Castlegar. I moved here from Vancouver in the early '80's to work for the Cominco lead and zinc smelter. Got layed off in the mid '80's so went North to Kemano for a bit then Yellowknife NWT then back to Castlegar in 1989 and been here since. It is a beautiful area with lots of lakes, rivers and wilderness and not many people - just the way I like it.

Was the fellow from Castlegar an older fellow? If so I think I know who you mean. He and his wife ran it for years. After they left there was a fairly young fellow there for a while. Now he's gone and there seems to be a regular turnover in staff.
Back to PP boolits - do you have cast boolit loading info? I have the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook which will certainly have some 250 Savage loads in it. I could scan them or write them out for you if you need them. They are likely on the ligher end of the load scale but could be a good starting point.


03-04-2008, 11:11 AM
I may try my hand at the push through molds. I like the idea of being able to adjust to different lengths . it may be particularly useful in .311 for me . I have a .303 brit a7.62x54 and a7.62x39 , one mold that could cast boolits for all of the would be handy.

The fellow I knew was an older fellow he was semi retired. He came to Kenora because he had family here but it didn't really apeal to him . he moved to somewhere in Sask , again because of family.

Thanks for the offer of the loading info but I do have the Lyman Cast bullet handbook in the collection . I think these lighter loads will be perfect to start and get a feel for PP boolits.

This is going to be mostly for the learning experience. If the boolits hit the target sideways and I figure out why I will be just as happy as if they punched a nice ragged hole. Well OK I admit the nice ragged hole would make happier but as long as I learn something about PP boolits I will be happy.

03-04-2008, 08:36 PM
If you are going to make a mould for PP'ing .303 you will likely want it at about 0.303"+ then patch up to groove diameter.

I made a mould at 0.301" for .30 cal and figured it would work for .303 Brit too but the .303 seems to like the knurled version which is about 0.304". The boolits grow about 0.003" when knurled. I have done very limited testing but the last time out with these I got very good (for me) accuracy in comparison to buckshot type groups at 50 yards with smooth 0.301".

Again, not sure if it is diameter, better grip on paper or both.

The .308 doesn't care and shot well with the smooth boolits as does my .44. If you have a shop you can make a knurling tool easy enough or the push out moulds are so easy to make you can make a couple of diameters to suit standard .30 cal and .303 if necessary.

Good luck and keep us posted.