Reallistic 100 yard group size?

[Muddydogs]

What should a guy expect for accuracy / group size at 100 yards shooting a modern inline muzzy and jacketed sabot bullets? With center fire I expect 3 rounds to be touching or darn close to touching at 100 yards.

[tomme boy]

1"-2" or less.

[Rick Hodges]

You expect a lot....My Omega does about 1 1/2" center to center and I am happy with that. My TC Scout 4-5" with full .54 cal real bullets and 2 1/2-3" with Sabots.

Both have low powered scopes, the Scout a fixed 2.5x and the Omega a 1-4X. I cant hold "bullet hole" close with these. LOL.

These are from the bags.

[dondiego]

That is some darn good offhand shooting!

[docone31]

Why two hits on the cap?
Looks like a great rifle.

[NSB]

If you really want to talk "realistic" group size, use five shots and not three shots. Also, get an average of three 5-shot groups. Everyone gets a good three shot group once in a while but it's no indication of what the gun is really capable of. Talking three shots is about a waste of time. My Savage ML2 will shoot five shot groups at 100yds off bags that average 1.5" with select loads. Every other muzzle loader I've seen a couple of TC Encore Pro Hunters shoot about as well with select loads also.

[Muddydogs]

If you really want to talk "realistic" group size, use five shots and not three shots. Also, get an average of three 5-shot groups. Everyone gets a good three shot group once in a while but it's no indication of what the gun is really capable of. Talking three shots is about a waste of time. My Savage ML2 will shoot five shot groups at 100yds off bags that average 1.5" with select loads. Every other muzzle loader I've seen a couple of TC Encore Pro Hunters shoot about as well with select loads also.

With metallic center fire rounds I usually finish with more then one 5 shot group. When I start working up a load its usually 3 shot groups until I figure I am getting close to something good just to save on components. Just wanted a reality check to make sure I'm not expecting to much out of my muzzy.

[koehlerrk]

If you really want to talk "realistic" group size, use five shots and not three shots. Also, get an average of three 5-shot groups. Everyone gets a good three shot group once in a while but it's no indication of what the gun is really capable of. Talking three shots is about a waste of time. My Savage ML2 will shoot five shot groups at 100yds off bags that average 1.5" with select loads. Every other muzzle loader I've seen a couple of TC Encore Pro Hunters shoot about as well with select loads also.

And if you REALLY want a good check... have someone else that can shoot similar sized or smaller groups than you take your rifle and components, load it, and see what they can get it to do.

My dad was one helluva shot, now, at 72, his eyesight isn't that good anymore. But I remember one day he took me to the range with him and another guy was cussin' up a storm about how his gun wouldn't shoot better than a 6 inch group at 100 yards. Dad asked him to let him shoot it, put 5 rounds down range that were nearly touching, sub-moa for sure. Dad hands it back and says "It's not the guns fault."

Point is, if you can get two or more people to get a rifle to shoot a given group size, yeah, you've got a good handle on it's capabilities.

[idahoron]

The argument 3 shot vs 5 shot is a waste of time. How about a 30 shot group or a 80 shot group. The fact is no one shoots more than 1 to 3 shots at game. Where are those first 1 to 3 shots going to hit is the most important. In fact when I get close to hunting season I will shoot only one shot at the target. The point is know where that one shot will be hitting. I don't care where the 5th one is going to hit. Shooting 5 shot groups are for guys that waste powder and lead. three shots are fine for the hunter. Three shots are more than fine for the hunter with a muzzleloader. Lets say a 3 shot group is over 5" why shoot 5? If you go out and shoot 3 shot group and it is good, You go back the next time and shoot another 3 shot group in the same spot. Why is this not good enough? If you want to shoot 5's go for it. I will stick with 3's.

[Nicholas]

Why not shoot 1 - 3 shot groups over several different days and overlay the targets to get a better picture of functional 1st shot accuracy?

[Muddydogs]

The argument 3 shot vs 5 shot is a waste of time. How about a 30 shot group or a 80 shot group. The fact is no one shoots more than 1 to 3 shots at game. Where are those first 1 to 3 shots going to hit is the most important. In fact when I get close to hunting season I will shoot only one shot at the target. The point is know where that one shot will be hitting. I don't care where the 5th one is going to hit. Shooting 5 shot groups are for guys that waste powder and lead. three shots are fine for the hunter. Three shots are more than fine for the hunter with a muzzleloader. Lets say a 3 shot group is over 5" why shoot 5? If you go out and shoot 3 shot group and it is good, You go back the next time and shoot another 3 shot group in the same spot. Why is this not good enough? If you want to shoot 5's go for it. I will stick with 3's.

Well that's just fine, you stick with your 3 shot one time group. Some of use enjoy messing around with our rifles and reloading and don't see it as a waste. If you really want to get down to waste why own firearms and hunt at all? I'm sure I have about $300 in each pound of game meat I put in the freezer by the time everything is figured in. I am sure you would consider me just shooting my rifles to shoot them is a waste as well, I won't mention the 10000 shotgun rounds I blew off at clay targets this past year because I am sure that would blow your mind.

[NSB]

The argument 3 shot vs 5 shot is a waste of time. How about a 30 shot group or a 80 shot group. The fact is no one shoots more than 1 to 3 shots at game. Where are those first 1 to 3 shots going to hit is the most important. In fact when I get close to hunting season I will shoot only one shot at the target. The point is know where that one shot will be hitting. I don't care where the 5th one is going to hit. Shooting 5 shot groups are for guys that waste powder and lead. three shots are fine for the hunter. Three shots are more than fine for the hunter with a muzzleloader. Lets say a 3 shot group is over 5" why shoot 5? If you go out and shoot 3 shot group and it is good, You go back the next time and shoot another 3 shot group in the same spot. Why is this not good enough? If you want to shoot 5's go for it. I will stick with 3's.
You have no idea what statistics are do you? If they built airplanes on your mathematical logic, they'd all crash on the first flight. "One" of anything is less than useless for making a decision about a gun, load, or even the shooter. However, there's lots of "hunters" out there who do just that every year. The OP wanted to know about "realistic GROUP SIZE". ONE ISN'T A GROUP.

[Whiterabbit]

one has to be a group, or else I can't use my joke "I shoot great groups, I just have to resist the urge to pull the trigger the second time."

[Lead Fred]

All this fancy modern gizmos and my flinter can out shoot them all.
Sure is fun to see flatlanders wasting money, and being out done by a real muzzle loader.
Standing up I hit the one inch square tubed dangling target at 100 yards. Lets see your scoped BBQ sparkers do that.
We dont bench shoot flinters, The closest would be hitting lit candles at 50 yards. Using the fort wall as a rest

[idahoron]

It all depends on why your shooting the gun. If a person is getting ready for hunting or if he just likes shooting. If you just like to shoot then shoot 10 shot groups that is better yet. If you're getting ready for a hunt you need to loose the bench and shoot field positions. And 5 shot groups are not needed. One bullet placed exactly where it is supposed to hit is the goal.

[Rick Hodges]

All this fancy modern gizmos and my flinter can out shoot them all.
Sure is fun to see flatlanders wasting money, and being out done by a real muzzle loader.
Standing up I hit the one inch square tubed dangling target at 100 yards. Lets see your scoped BBQ sparkers do that.
We dont bench shoot flinters, The closest would be hitting lit candles at 50 yards. Using the fort wall as a rest

I'm really surprised you flint shooters even go near a building with computers in it. Have you ever seen modern indoor plumbing? Dang silly the military abandoned flint back in the 1850's. :kidding::kidding:

[Muddydogs]

It all depends on why your shooting the gun. If a person is getting ready for hunting or if he just likes shooting. If you just like to shoot then shoot 10 shot groups that is better yet. If you're getting ready for a hunt you need to loose the bench and shoot field positions. And 5 shot groups are not needed. One bullet placed exactly where it is supposed to hit is the goal.

I agree with loosing the bench and shooting real life for hunting. I was asking about group size as I am messing around with a new rifle and looking for the most accurate load I can get from it plus it gives me something to play around with.

Lead Fred
Not sure who you are calling a flatlander? I don't think your flintlock has anything over a modern inline muzzy and as for hitting a 1 inch target at 100 yards I would say it has more to do with the shooter then the rifle any day. I know I'm not steady enough to hit a 1 inch target at 100 yards with my scoped center fire rifle off hand but I can sure put the hurts on a 6 inch steel plate. How about a 120 yard off hand shot with a .54 inline and 1X scope, the cow elk didn't seem to notice that my shot was a couple inches off?

[johnson1942]

idaho ron, you could straighten out a lot of arguments couldnt you, im with ron.

[DIRT Farmer]

There is a very intersting article in this months Muzzle Blasts on shooting the modern sporting rifle by Rick Weber.
There are a group of long range muzzleloading rifle shooters who are playing with the inlines just to see what they will do. Their loads generaly involve moderate loads of powder, wads and a paper patched slug.

[DIRT Farmer]

Btw, I do most of my muzzle loading shooting now-a-days due to cateracts that I hope to have fixed this year, with a flint trade gun. No rear sight,because I can't see them ayway, no rifling.

I may not hit much but I look really cool.

[DougGuy]

I have an older White .50 that comes in with two pyrodex pellets and a Knight sabot, it cloverleafs 3 shots @ 100yds. There is no sense shooting more than 3 shots with an inline to check for group, by the time your third shot is fired the fouling upsets the next 2 rounds and they open groups up considerably. If you can't hit ol' Bambi in three shots, give the rifle away will ya please?