12 Inch long double barrel legal

[bouncer50]

Would it be legal to cut down a 12 guage muzzle loader barrels down to 12 inchs I always wanted a coach shotgun, I have ask around and can not find a answer. Since their no paper work to buy one, cash and carry home

[drago9900]

I think Dixie gun works sells one, but don't know about legal.

[Nobade]

Yes, as long as it is a muzzle loader there is no federal law prohibiting you from cutting one to whatever length you like. You state and local laws may be different though.

I had one of those short 12 inch doubles they made years ago, it was fun for a while just for the novelty of it, but I never could hit much with it so other than making noise it didn't have much utility. Now if you had a shotgun and could find a second set of barrels for it, maybe cutting one set down might be an option? I'd try maybe 18 or 16 inches first and see how you like it before cutting it to 12 inches. It likely would be better for actually hitting things.

-Nobade

[StrawHat]

The very few authenticated Wells Fargo messenger guns usually had 22-24" barrels. They wanted to be able to hit the things at which they aimed. You might start with a longer set of barrels, much easier to cut off than to add back!

Kevin

[doc1876]

Illinois did pass a law several years ago making it illegal to cut anything down, including Muzzelloaders. I haven't heard where there have been any enforcement, as there are many re-enactors in the state with cutdowns.

ain't they just the greatest state in the union??

[Good Cheer]

Navy Arms made 12Ga's with two sets of barrels. 14" on the short one for re-enactors I believe.

[bubba.50]

Dixie used to sell what they called the "Confederate Cavalry Shotgun" it was a percussion double with 12 or 14 inch barrels.

[old fogey]

Don't forget the "Howdah" hand-cannon (made by the British during the colonial period-) for the purpose of blowing a tiger off the sides of elephants while hunting (never fired one, nor a blunderbuss either, dagnabit- now I can see another "toy" purchase looming in front of me!).

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The very few authenticated Wells Fargo messenger guns usually had 22-24" barrels. They wanted to be able to hit the things at which they aimed. You might start with a longer set of barrels, much easier to cut off than to add back!

Kevin

Yes, and I would think few original guns carried by others for such a purpose were much shorter. Why would they have to be, if the guard was sitting on the box? 12 or 14in. was unnecessary even for someone inside the coach, and would be a drastic liability for a cavalryman. A good cavalry horse will stand gunfire in all quarters except directly over his head, but a short barrel gives considerably higher terminal pressure, and therefore noise and blast. If the poor beast were endowed with reason, too, he might prefer something too long to fit in behind his head.

I've got a 16ga percussion Mortimer with 38in. barrels. It is slow handling, and even when it was made they knew that you didn't get extra velocity that way. I've always wondered at the reason, and one could be that it was made for someone in the military, who had a free source of rifle musket powder. But it would also make a lot of sense for the horseman.


I think we know in our heart of hearts that most of those original "coach guns" were created, then or last week, to save irrepairably dented barrels, or those rusted some way down the bore. A particularly thin muzzle is a particular giveaway, as most shotguns, even without choke, were made thicker at the muzzle than some way back.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Don't forget the "Howdah" hand-cannon (made by the British during the colonial period-) for the purpose of blowing a tiger off the sides of elephants while hunting (never fired one, nor a blunderbuss either, dagnabit- now I can see another "toy" purchase looming in front of me!).

Yes, they were usually made for either a short .577 or a short 20ga cartridge. They had a certain following in places like the Sudan, where the native hadn't seen any movies, or dime novels in those days, telling him he was obliged to collapse when shot with a revolver. But you have to remember that in both roles they were intended for more or less once in a lifetime use.

[451 Pete]

Several years back I was at my camper at Friendship loading up the truck to go back home after a shoot when a fella came driving up and stopped on the road and got out. He asked if I knew of anywhere he could get a set of barrels for an old black powder shotgun. I asked if he had it with him and he said yes and pulled it out from behind the seat of his truck. I could only look at it and shake my head. It was a W.W. Greener that had been cut down by someone wanting a short barrel shotgun for what ever reason. What a shame. With the barrels intact and as that shotgun would have looked in the original way it was made it would have brought a pretty good price. I guess what I am trying to say is that they are not making any more original guns and if you want one cut down just go out and buy one. Modern steel is a lot stronger than what was used on old originals and should something break you can get replacement parts.

just my thoughts .... Pete

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Well as I said, it might have been someone who didn't want to, but had to. That sounds like the kind of gun that might be a candidate for sleeving, i.e. soldering new tubes into barrels amputated just in front of the hinge pin, rather like the Continental European monobloc system. My picture actually is a one-piece monobloc, from the 1911 Anciens Etablissements Pieper catalogue. Sleeving is nowhere near as expensive as new barrels, but it isn't cheap, as the barrels need to be regulated and the ribs soldered in.


130734

[bedbugbilly]

It may be legal . . . but my question would be "why"? After the "cool factor" wears off, you're going to have a shotgun with 12" barrels that is absolutely useless for much of anything . . . unless you're standing right on a rabbit or other critter and then you'll take some of your won toes off. The only use I can see for a shotgun with 12" barrels is to conceal it for unlawful purposes like a "hold up". Coach guns didn't have barrels that short.

About 50 years ago, I was given a large box of old gun parts, etc. In the bottom of the box, there was a set of double barrels with the forearm attached and the metal frame - it had once been an old Ithaca BP hammer breech loading shotgun. Those barrels were cut to about 12". It looked like the most "useless" thing I'd ever seen - and since barrels shorter than 18" were illegal (this was before all of the gun laws we have now) - I took the barrels and made a nice pool of metal with the gas torch - I didn't want them in my possession.

Everyone has their own "likes" . . . but I'm thinking that after the novelty wears off. . . you're going to regret getting the hacksaw out of the workbench drawer.

[old fogey]

Yeah, but the "Howdah (http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_162_194&products_id=14306)" double-barrelled 20 gauge shotgun/pistol (hand-cannon?) is still available and legal. Now, that one link is to their kit, however, they are available assembled (believe Pedersoli sells them,) over the internet. True, it is a muzzleloader (not a shell-fed gun,) but how many times do you have to kill something that won't die from two 20 ga. barrels of triple-ought (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/153328/lee-18-cavity-bullet-mold-360-diameter-000-buckshot)buck?