Need ideas for a youth rig.

[JeffinNZ]

OK, so my eldest daughter (10 years) has taken to shooting and small game hunting. The Savage Rascal is great with both girls for plinking and bunnies but the peep sight is limiting and where we hunt closest to home the terrain is dead flat and the hares large. As such I tend to favour my .223 Rem for out on the plains. I am wondering what would be suitable for the girl. Missed an opportunity to buy a .22 K Hornet on a Vickers Martini action a while back due to a lack of foresight on my part which is a shame as it would have been great.

Weight and fit are major considerations but so is cartridge. Must be able to handle our large hares and wallabies and have the legs for 150m. Beginning to think 7.62X39 might be the option.

Ideas?

[Pb2au]

Good morning!
Just a thought,
I wonder what the availability of any lighter rifle in the 30-30 chambering would be in your neck of the wood?
The reason I suggest it is this;
1)My wife is very sensitive to the concussion of any firearm. She lost most of the hearing in her left ear, and as an added bonus, that ear reacts painfully to concussion. An avid shooter is she, so we had to try different rifles to find one that was pleasant for her to shoot. We arrived to the 30-30 in a Marlin 336. My nieces and nephew when young were also put off by concussion, but loved to shoot her 30-30. So this might be very user friendly to your little one.
2) The recoil of the 30-30 is very manageable due to the fact we are all handloaders.
3) The 30-30 and cast bullets are a match made in heaven.
4) For sure with a little load development, it will reach the ranges you are specifying.
5) With the right boolit, it will deliver fine terminal ballistics on hares, and wallabies.

I hope this helps!
Also

[GhostHawk]

Single shot rifles are still being made, Handi rifles by H&R are still made in the USA (not for much longer though)

300$ and 75$ for scope and you should be set.

Or set her up with a good .22LR and teach her how to ambush those big hares!

I grew up hunting the same thing only in Minnesota near Fargo ND, big long flat valley.

.22LR will kill a rabbit at 150 yards if you hold high, bout the tips of his ears if I remember.

[carbine86]

I would go with a contender or encore. That way she can always "barrel up" if the need arises. I am in the process of getting my 3 year old a contender and will end up cutting the stock down to size and ad in buffer extension the lengthen the pull as needed.

[Screwbolts]

Jeff, can you whittle out a small short stock for your Husky? I know this wont justify another rifle in the house.

Ken

[badgerblaster]

7.62 x 39 might just work fine.
A friend I hunt with, his son, is not a very big kid. He was less than 100 lbs when he finally was old enough to hunt, so his dad chose an SKS for him in 7.62 x 39. It has a short stock and recoil was manageable. He killed a nice buck with it.
How it does on smaller game, I don't know. It might tear up a rabbit.
His rifle was accurate out to 100 yds with open sites.
That's as far as we shot it.

[Mk42gunner]

Kind of depends if you want a repeater or a single shot for her Jeff. Will this be a shared rifle in a few years, or will you be buying another one? Since you already cast and know how to develop loads, the big hurdle is over with.

Smallish game, (I'm not real sure of just how big a wallaby is) and 150 meters sound like anything in the range of a .22 Hornet or .25-20 Winchester on up could be made to work. The beauty of the 7.62x39 is that it can act as a slightly smaller .30-30 or a .32-20 equivalent, depending on how you load it. The Zastava Mini-Mauser isn't a bad choice if they are still available to you.

Robert

[Beerd]

a lot of kids have a hard time opening and closing a TC Contender.
a bolt action is more better.
..

[nagantguy]

My daughter is also 10 and slight of build 78 pounds and short like her mother. She uusesa 10/22 we built together with short end stock for small things and plinking; for her first deer season this year she practiced with and carried a win 94 trapper carbine in 44 mag with a mid power level hand load of a 255 grain gas check boolit. Recoil wasn't an issue the weight was good and the length was great and she could keep all shots on a deer sized poster target out to about 90 yards.... So with different power levels from a plinker 44 special equivalent to a house a fire 310 grain stuffed full of h110 from bunnies to bears could be readily hunted. Her rifle also wears a Lyman peep sight and pop cans are not safe at 50 yards.

[barrabruce]

how about a h&R 300 blk
short... light..n handi.

But me 30-30 H&R with 150 plainbase loping along sedately would sure fix a wallabie or rabbit.
Me hornets althou quieter than a 222 has a lot more bark than a slow 30 cal which sort of sounds like a 22lr.
It that matters any.

What do you want when they find horses..and make-up an boys...besides a shotgun

[45 2.1]

A Martini Cadet in the original 310 Greener........ easy on young shoulders and an excellent killer scaled to a size for younger shooters.

[texassako]

How about a Savage Axis youth model? I have several nieces and nephews that have started out deer hunting with one in .243, but they also have .223 and 7mm-08.

[leadman]

Not a reloadable cartridge but how about a 22 magnum? There are many used rifles along with the ammo available here in the states, don't know about there. I hunted for many years with a Savage 24 in 22 mag/20 ga.
Another rifle that comes in youth models is the Rossi. It is available in 223, 243, etc.

[runfiverun]

she's about the same size as dawn was at 8 when I started her on the bigger stuff.
at first I was using my 308 with lighter loads [and lighter bolits] and gradually worked her forward.
eventually I found a milsurp 7.65 argie [for cheap] I whittled everything down to her size, the stock and barrel both got chopped down to something manageable in weight and length for her.
as she got a bit bigger a thicker recoil pad and a couple of spacers kept pace with her growth and the rifles recoil.

she's 21 now and still uses that rifle to hunt deer with just about every year.
with loads a tick above the 30-30 level for deer in the thicker stuff [with a special tube jacket boullet hybrid I designed, we worked loads from scratch for her rifle]
she also uses it for rock chucks with a varmint load we worked up [with a 175 gr bullet made from 5.7 cases] I know it sounds a little overkill but it works.:lol: and it doesn't tear them up.
with those 2 specialty loads [and countless amounts of lead down the barrel] she has become pretty dang proficient with it.
it's not her only rifle but it's the one she is super familiar with and really likes using the most.
not only because it's hers and it's the only one like it.
but it's the one she took her first deer with, learned to change a scope setting for the different loads, learned about shooting a ladder, trigger control, how to tune a load to a rifle,,, etc. over the years.
now she knows the loads for it by heart and learned to reload and cast because of wanting to shoot it.

it's kind of special to me too when I get to see it now.

[dh2]

what about the Ruger all American you could go for the .223 Rem, or if you wanted some thing for deer down the road go with .243

[Treetop]

Jeff, I just bought my granddaughter (15 years old and very petite) a .357 Rossi levergun and mounted a 2.5x Leupold on it.

I loaded 100 rounds of NOE 147 gr. boolits with 3.5 gr. of Bullseye in magnum cases. In no time she was shattering small prescription pill bottles and other similar sized targets at 25 yards and loves her newest rifle. She also has a Savage Rascal with a fixed 4x scope.

My plan is to load some progressively hotter loads during the year, so by next deer season she will be comfortable with a Lyman 358429 HP in front of a near max dose of 2400 or H-110. The .357 is so versatile, especially out of a 20" barrel. It should easily handle anything from small game up to 150-200 lb. feral hogs, here in central Texas.

There are lots of good responses here, let us know which way you go and good luck to the both of you! Tt.

[Mike H]

Jeff,
What about that 32-20 Martini you have?It would need more than subsonic velocities to do 150 yards though.
Mike.

[JeffinNZ]

Jeff,
What about that 32-20 Martini you have?It would need more than subsonic velocities to do 150 yards though.
Mike.

Yeah, the Martini is a bit chunky especially with the suppressor. OK for prone for her but lugging it around could wear thin.


A Martini Cadet in the original 310 Greener........ easy on young shoulders and an excellent killer scaled to a size for younger shooters.

Yes, I have one of those and intend to put her behind it but we need a flatter shooting, scoped rig for the plains.

[Digital Dan]

After thousands of people tried to shoot me with the world famous 7.62x39 and failed I hold little respect for the cartridge. Due to it's ***** dimensions I eschew having it in my house. It lags behind the .30-30 in every measure of ballistic performance or evaluation. Just like the .30-30 lags most everything else in its class.

With that said, if one loads a .30-30 with a pointy end bullet of 150 grains or a bit more and shoots it from a quality single shot, bolt action, or single loads a good tube fed rifle it is a different creature entirely and performs suitably out to 300 yards for deer sized game.

[NavyVet1959]

I vote for an H&R in .357mag. You can load them down to the point where they are quieter than a .22LR or up to a good deer rifle, especially if you lengthen the throat / rechamber it for .357 max. Easy to load it with a round ball load or the 105 gr SWC on the low end or the 250 gr in the RCBS mold. On the low end, it's cheaper to shoot than .22LR these days.

A single shot will give you the most flexibility on ammo, but a bolt action will give you nearly as much. For a beginning shooter, I say go with the single shot. When you know that you only have one shot, you tend to make it count.

[crawfobj]

I've debated this a lot. My current thinking is that the new Ruger American Ranch in .300 BLK throwing 125gr pills would be great. They make a compact model, and it comes threaded so I can protect my sons' hearing. My 8yr old already proved the concept on his first deer with my .308 American Predator and suppressor.

Plus, i'd get to play with it using heavy chunks of lead at subsonic velocities.

[Greg Skinner]

That Ruger American Ranch compact model would probably work very well. It is important to have something with a short enough stock that it fits correctly. The 300BLK has very little recoil and should do well out to 150m with 110 grain bullets. The Ranch compact model is also made in .308 Win. and also has a threaded muzzle. That could be loaded down nicely with a variety of bullets, cast as well as jacketed. I've hefted one and it is a lot of weapon for the dollars. If you went the AR route in either 300Blk or 5.56 you would have the advantage of stock that collapses to adjust for length of pull. I love my K-Hornet but it is harder to find one set up the way you want it, and it still is perhaps not as versatile as some of the other choices.

[crawfobj]

Well said Greg. I like the idea of throwing a light bullet/boolit but larger diameter for a youth gun. Shots will be relatively close, so you don't need to be all that fast. I prefer to manage recoil with bullet weight and velocity vs diameter. .223s and 243s have killed lots of deer, but if you can throw a 110-125gr 30 cal with acceptable recoil, why wouldn't you?

[sirgknight]

Since I just purchased an H&R Handi-Rifle in the 300 Blackout you can include me to recommend this caliber. It is like handling a "toy" rifle. It is very short, very light and it can handle anything from 90gr up to 220gr ammo. Loads can be achieved with subsonic or supersonic velocities. We have already decided that my granddaughter (who is only 2 right now) will definitely get her initial rifle training with the blackout. A suppressor coupled with subsonic ammo is a no-brainer for training. No recoil, no noise and no bulky firearm. The HANDI-RIFLE is one impressive little firearm.

[bruce drake]

Jeff!!!
You have the answer in your gunsafe! 303 Pygmy! or the American equivalent to your Wildcat...the 300BLK. You could even get that 223 bolt rifle of yours rebarreled to 300BLK with no changes to your rifle's boltface or magazine!

[NavyVet1959]

Although I prefer reloading for straight-walled cases, I can definitely see a justification for a .300 AAC for such a rifle. Since the brass can be made from .223 cases, it would be easy to come by. As a single-shot, you won't be losing brass (as long as you keep you hand over the breech when breaking it open) like you would with an auto-loader. The .300 AAC would allow you to go to even lighter bullets than the .38/.357 H&R while still allowing for bullets in the 230 gr range. For the lightest loads, a round ball mold would give you 45.16 gr in a .311" round ball vs 70.04 gr in a .360" round ball. That's a 35.5% savings on lead compared to the .3" round ball. Figuring $1/lb for lead, you're looking at $0.323 for 50 .311" round balls vs $0.50 for 50 .360" round balls. Not exactly something that is going to break the bank either way you go.

Case capacity of a .357 mag is 27 gr H2O.
Case capacity of a .357 max is 34 gr H2O.
Case capacity of a .300 AAC is about 26 gr of H2O.

The nice thing about the H&R is that their barrels are pretty affordable. The bad thing is that you have to send your firearm to them to fit the barrel.

Even though the .300 AAC has the potential to save a bit more lead, I still think I would stay with a barrel chambered for .38/.357 (and probably end up getting it rechambered for .357 max).

Another thing to consider, depending up what type of shooting you are planning on for daughter is that a straight-walled case like the .38/.357 will be easier to load for shotshells.

I just noticed that you are in New Zealand, so that might affect your choice also since availability and choice of firearms and brass might be a bit different over there.

[JeffinNZ]

Jeff!!!
You have the answer in your gunsafe! 303 Pygmy! or the American equivalent to your Wildcat...the 300BLK. You could even get that 223 bolt rifle of yours rebarreled to 300BLK with no changes to your rifle's boltface or magazine!

If I lightened up the woodwork and put a scope on it, maybe. Not sure I want ANOTHER one of my toys being taken by a 'Brown' girl. Her mother has tried to claim the .32-20 Martini already. 300BLK has got some merit guys. Thanks for suggesting.

[bruce drake]

Jeff, the kids have claimed all my rifle at one time or the other! But they still reside in my gunsafes ;)

[Mauser48]

I think the ruger gunsite scout in 223 would be a good option. I would go with 223 for what you are looking for. The gunsite scout is nice because it has adjustable spacers in the stock and its nice and light. It also has a rear peapsite that is nice. Either you can mount a scout scope or remove the rear sight and mount there. It's a very nice little gun.

[Blackwater]

With most guns being designed for adults, and understandably so, this is a that's always going to be worth considering. Having already gone through that, my current opinion is that you can't do much better than get her a Thompson Center Contender. Barrels can be had very reasonably, and you can get them in different calibers, as well as in .410 ga. shotgun. Stocks are available ready made in youth length, and can be sawed off or recoil pads added to shorten or lengthen them to the length the child is at right now, and adjusted with spacers as they grow. Calibers in the Contender barrels vary quite widely, from .22 LR and .22 centerfires of all manner, up to the mighty .45/70. It would be very, very difficult to find a more versatile and adaptable little gun that's light enough to fit her, heavy enough to shoot well, and will do as many things as it'll do at what will amount to very reasonable prices as she grows. It even has a visible hammer, which is good for budding shootists, too. Just not much there to DISlike. As she grows and wishes to try different calibers and recoil levels, buying new barrels is the cheapest answer you're likely to find, and trading them even cheaper. Always a good factor for ol' Dad.

There really isn't any wrong answer here, but some really are better than others. Just get her shooting and she'll have a ball, and it'll change her life and attitude. It can't NOT do that! She'll deal with reality and danger in an entirely different way than if she'd never learned to shoot, and as long as we have life, there's always danger, whether some in this world want to face that fact or not. Just be sure she learns to shoot well, and make it fun along the way, and she may well learn to outshoot YOU! That's fair warning. I have TWO generations outshooting me now, and nobody could be prouder of that than me. Sure wish I had my youthful vidion now!

[jcadwell]

Have you considered 17 HMR? It's a pretty amazing little cartridge. No recoil, inexpensive rimfire guns, flat shooting, and relatively affordable ammo. If she did her plinking with a 22, and hunting with a 17 it could pencil out...

[paul edward]

Not sure what rifles might be available in NZ. There are some nice bolt action rifles chambered for smaller centrefire cartridges like Ruger's 77/357 bolt action with rotary magazine. You might be able to find a single shot break open, or a reproduction rolling block in .30/30 or .357 Magnums. For a small person, you probably do not want a cartridge bigger than a.30/30 which is easy to load down. You might want to remove the original stock and make a shorter one until the kids grow into the original one.