Short-fat-bald-ugly

[jkcerda]

Good evening, new here . Been reading a bit and head nearly exploded :killingpc
anyways looking to get strted casting my own, just started reloading & figured I might also give this a try, but WHERE to begin? No clue what 6 cavity mold to get .
trying to load for .45 ACP-230 GR and .223-62 gr.
Can someone Forrest Gump it for me as to what I need? Getting the lee small pot furnace. Although it seems I might need a ladle for that one?
Anyways. Thanks for the help

[sigep1764]

If you wanna go the ladle route, look up the master caster kit. You'll also need a turkey fryer or some other way to heat lead to smelt it into ingots. I use a turkey fryer and a cast iron skillet with a muffin tin. Makes three pound ingots. You could also get a bottom pour pot from Lee for cheap. Eliminates the need for a ladle. Also a way to size boolits. Lee makes push through sizes on the cheap, or you could buy a lyman/star lubrisizer which sizes and lubes the boolit at the same time. Look up fortunecookie45lc on YouTube for some video. AND KEEP READING HERE AND ASKING QUESTIONS!!!

[jkcerda]

If you wanna go the ladle route, look up the master caster kit. You'll also need a turkey fryer or some other way to heat lead to smelt it into ingots. I use a turkey fryer and a cast iron skillet with a muffin tin. Makes three pound ingots. You could also get a bottom pour pot from Lee for cheap. Eliminates the need for a ladle. Also a way to size boolits. Lee makes push through sizes on the cheap, or you could buy a lyman/star lubrisizer which sizes and lubes the boolit at the same time. Look up fortunecookie45lc on YouTube for some video. AND KEEP READING HERE AND ASKING QUESTIONS!!!
going to buy the ingots here, no smelt for me.

are this it?
its a .451 size , not sure if it would fly using a .452 mold.
http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-0-451-Lube-Size/dp/B00162PX6C/ref=sr_1_3?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1422684583&sr=1-3&keywords=Lee++sizer


http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-4500-Sizer-Heater-115-Volt/dp/B000N8LCP6/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

mold considered

http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-Mold-Tl452-230-2R-Cavity/dp/B005KW5G4S/ref=sr_1_2?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1422684232&sr=1-2&keywords=lee+6+cavity+mold+.45

[1989toddm]

Sigep1764 gave ya good advice. 45acp or 45 Colt? The lee sizer is used in a reloading press to size boolits after tumbling a batch of them in a baggie with the included lee alox. The lyman 4500 lubesizer takes lyman or Rcbs sizer dies, different than the lee. Keep reading! And fortunecookie45lc's videos are very good.

[jkcerda]

.45 ACP on a Glock and 1911

[Cmm_3940]

The Lee TL452-230-2R and a .452 Lee push-through sizer die kit will meet your stated requirements and get you started loading 45ACP.

for .223...

not a lot comes to mind for 62gr. Keep your eyes open for a HM2 225-62-1.

if you are willing to go 55gr, the Lee Bator mold is easier to find. Either way, you will also need .22 cal. Gas checks and a .225 push-through sizer kit. You will probably need to pan lube :-( these; I've never attempted to tumble lube rifle boolits.

I strongly recommend you start out with .45ACP before attempting to cast for .223

[Digital Dan]

JKCERDA, with minor trepidation and knowledge other members may feast on my bones if I suggest something incorrect, but I am suspicious of the wisdom that might lead to teaming up a 6 cavity mould with ladle pour cast methods. My understanding has it that such things are more complementary to bottom pour pots due to the need to keep things hot and rolling along. 2 cavity, yep, maybe even a 4 cavity mould though I cannot speak with any authority on the latter. I can attest that a simple 2 cavity mould that is up to temperature can churn out a surprising number of bullets in fairly short order. Few weeks back I was running a 2-cav Lyman mould for the .25-20 and cobbled up 250 bullets in just a little over 2 hours. My trigger finger will get tired before I need to do it again.

[Cmm_3940]

+1 agree with the above. For someone starting out, especially with a 6-banger mold, I would recommend the Lee 4-20 pot. They drip a lot, but get the job done. You will have a hard time keeping a 6 cavity mold fed with the small 10 pound pot.

[Handloader109]

As a relatively new caster, I'd tell you to get the Lee 4-20 pot also, 65 lbs of lead from one of the dozen guys on the site, (I've bought from 5 different and everyone was great to deal with), DO only start with the 45, cheap Lee 2 banger mold of your choice and get to work. May need sizing die, Lee again is you are starting out, Alox comes with it. I see powder coating as next step, then about three or four other molds, and then and then, it never stops.. :-) good times ahead

[markshere2]

Nobody says you have to fill all six of the holes in your mould, especially at the start of a casting session. Until you get the knack, fill two holes, cut the sprue, and dump them. Do that 20 times, then graduate to 3 or 4 holes, then work your way up. Trying to cut 6 cold hard sprues at once is hard on the machinery.

[dondiego]

Sounds like you are considering the 4 pound Lee pot???? That is for sure a ladle pot only and if you get that one, you will be better off with a 1 or 2 cavity mold.

[Foto Joe]

As a lover of 6 hole molds I'll also state that I wouldn't recommend one for a beginner. It's not because they're hard to operate 'cause they're not. Although I don't ladle pour I'd have no issues doing so with a 6-cav mold, keeping the Lee aluminum ones hot isn't the problem, it's keeping them cool enough that's the problem so ladle pouring shouldn't be an issue.

I'd also be a little cautious about recommending a bottom pour right off the bat too. It's not because they drip a lot because they don't. If they drip it's because of the operator not the pot although a muffin tin under the spout relegates any drip to a non event. If I had to make a choice though I'd recommend a bottom pour for a beginner before I recommended a 6-cav mold here's why:

I can pretty much promise you that the odds of you as a beginner causing damage to a brandy spanking new aluminum mold are pretty high. I might even go so far as to say that your first mold might as well just be considered "disposable". I'm not being mean here or anything but there's so much a beginner doesn't know yet about the art form that is casting boolits. It's for this reason that I recommend spending $20 for a 2 holer rather than $40 for a 6-cav and then another $20 for the handles.

[gray wolf]

20 pound pot for sure, a thermometer, and please consider a 2 cavity mold to start.
A couple of hours and some steady casting will easily get you 500 bullets.

[bhn22]

I would start with the 45 ACP. To ladle cast, I'd also suggest a 2 cavity. The primary reason is to simplify troubleshooting if things don't go well at first, and they usually don't, for some reason. With a 6 cavity mould, you have 6 individual situations to evaluate, and that's enough to make you head explode at first. Cavity one could still have some residual oil in it, cavity two could be perfect, cavity three could have venting issues that are unique to that cavity, and the other three might not fill out because the heat up slower than the first three. I cannot recommend LEEs ladle. It is a cruel joke to refer to that as a ladle, it's a spoon. It does work well for fluxing and scraping, but it is not a ladle by any stretch of the imagination. Get a Lyman or RCBS bottom pour type ladle. Just pay the extra for their far superior performance in pouring. A LEE ladle/spoon is needed too for the tasks mentioned above. All alloys need to be fluxed and tuned, so be prepared for that as well. A lead thermometer is an exceptionally good idea as well. After that, all you need to do is decide how to lube and size your bullets. Glocks require more care to cast for, and I'm sure you've already read the thread on them in the handguns section. Relax and enjoy!

[leadman]

Any mold you buy should be treated gently but especially an aluminum one. The Lee molds are soft aluminum so when closing them set it on a hard surface so the pins align properly. Make sure to lube the mold pins and sprue plate pivot. I use Bullplate lube ( 2 cycle engine oil)
On the top of the mold and bottom of the sprue plate. Instructions can be found on this site.
I also recommend a larger pot for use with a 6 cavity mold. The Lee is listed as a #20 but actually only holds #15.5 of pure lead. If you buy a 6 cavity Lee use caution when operating the sprue cut-off as they break if used improperly. If the sprue is too cold it takes excessive force to cut it. Once the beveled part of the handle bottoms out back it off and insert a flat tip screwdriver blade and you will regain the mechanical advantage to cut the sprue.
If you want to shoot cast in the 223 it is doubtful if the tumble lube will provide enough lube. You can buy some of Lar's Carnuba Red lube and use it like a crayon to fill the lube grooves and then seat the gas check and size in the Lee push thru sizer. Probably the cheapest method to lube and size the boolits.

Once you get started post some pictures of your results so if any issues are seen the members here can make suggestions. Good casting!

[claude]

Thanks JK for asking this question, I have been pondering the very question. I was most concerned about what size pot to purchase, I see the small 4# isn't advised.
Personally, I have pretty much determined to go with ladle casting.


Nobody says you have to fill all six of the holes in your mould
Thank you markshere2 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?7825-markshere2), that was another question running around in my feeble brain.

I have been slowly acquiring the essentials and this is helpful.

Thanks for your hard earned knowledge gentlemen!

claude.

[Garyshome]

I don't think that the Lee sizer will work with the Lyman 4500 Lube Sizer with Heater 115-Volt [The sizer is not a reloading press]. I think you need Lyman sizer die.The sizer part should work but the lube part won't. You should just get a cheap lee press for starters until you know exactly what you are doing, then get something better. Get a bottom pour pot, if you want to do some volume casting. I started with the small Lee pot them got the #20, and use them both when casting now, it really speeds up casting volume.

[mdi]

Get some more info before you begin (a bit more than forum opinions). Lyman's 3rd Edition Cast Bullet Hand book is an excellent place to start (if you can find one, the 4th Edition will do though, just not as new caster friendly). Check LASC website for a whole lot of info http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm. This site will give tons of info and you will have an idea of what equipment you'll need.

I too would suggest a two cavity mold for a new caster as temperature control is easier than on a long 6 banger. Check out all the melting pots available (google bullet casting), check with the major vendors (MidWay, Mid South, Widners, Titan Reloading) for price and availability, and figger what will suit your casting needs (only need 100 bullets at a time? A small pot with a ladle will suffice. Want to cast 500 per setting? A bottom pour and mebbe a couple molds).

I started with a stainless steel pot, 1 qt., a Coleman single burner stove, a wooden stick for stirring, a slotted spoon for skimming, some paraffin for flux, a Lee ladle, a two hole Lee mold, and a yellar hammer. I had access to wheel weights and used this alloy exclusively. My mold was a tumble lube design so I didn't size the bullets and I lubed with alox. I kept my 629 fed with this set up for about a year before I went with a bottom pour pot. I slowly added tools as I needed them, and found better methods and supplies as I went along.

But, you need to know, this is a slippery slope you're startin' on. Bullet casting is extremely satisfying, and some say addicting (I can stop anytime I want, I just don't wanna). Soon your mold inventory will grow, you'll add different alloys, you will soon start making your own lubes, and mebbe gaschecks. Another pot will be very helpful, and you'll prolly get a mold preheater (hot plate). Then you'll start walking every where and scan the curb/gutter and cruise parking lots looking for wheel weights. Every time you go to a store you'll scan the shelves thinking "Can I use that for my boolits?". Be very careful my friend, it does happen...:mrgreen::mrgreen:

[jkcerda]

Thanks for the help & the PMs
lee 4-20 and a 2 mould will be the start. Also getting the Lyman 4th edition book
already looking to buy ingots ready to go here

seems .223 is a hassle. How about .308?

[jkcerda]

Quick question
how many bookits per pound can I expect ? .45 ACP 230 gr?

[RayinNH]

JK, the Lee Pro4-20# is a good decision. It will keep up with melting lead added to it as your casting. You can ladle cast with it too if you prefer. Jus tbecause it bottom pours doesn't mean you have to use the feature although you probably will :-P.

If you've got fat fingers like I do the .308 will be a piece of cake compared to .22's.

Enjoy the ride and welcome.

[RayinNH]

7000 grains per pound divided by 230 = 30 1/2 boolits.

[Pilgrim]

:-PQuick answer...7000 grains in a pound, divide by the weight of your boolit (it won't be 230!) = boolits per pound.

Concensus on this board is the .45 ACP is probably the easiest handgun. 9mm might be one of the hardest. With rifles it's a bit of a crapshoot with caliber and case size being the predominent factor. The .30-30 and .45-70 are probably among the easiest rifles. The .22 cal rifles among the hardest. Going up in caliber starting with the .22 cal it gets easier and easier. Part of that is due to the greater ease of casting good boolits as size increases, part of it is case capacity (smaller case capacity to bore size is easier), and lower velocity goals are easier than high velocity goals. For example, the .35 Rem is generally easier than the .358 Win. (but by very little), which is easier than the .35 Whelen, which is easier than the .358 Norma. An exception is the .22 Hornet is harder than the .222 Rem which is easier than the .22-250. Sorry about that. Reading here will give you a great heads up that you WON'T generally find in the commercial texts like the Lyman handbooks. All things are NOT the same and they are not equal. Some factors can mask others. Boolit BHN can be a factor, but boolit size is always a factor. Barrel condition (smoothness) will usually make one cartridge seem easier than another if the other cartridge is chambered in a rough barrel.

Your question re: .30 cal in a .308 Win. Is a good example. Generally the .30-30 is easier than the .308 Win., but the .308 Win. case is not immensely larger than the .30-30, so barrel condition, and bore size (.308 vs. .309 vs. .310) can mask the case capacity difference. Get the right boolit diameter, and a good lube for the velocity desired, and a good boolit design can make the .308 Win. rather straight forward, IF you have a smooth clean barrel. Anyway, you should be getting a better grasp of your goal. I'm through rambling now! Read. Learn. Have fun. It's a fascinating, rewarding hobby, but not appreciably cheaper than buying jacketed bullets and stuffing them over an appropriate powder. You'll prolly get immersed in sizing, lube choices, boolit designs, gas check vs. not gas check, ad nauseum just like the rest of us. BUT you will most likely have fun along the way and will learn a helluva lot more about rifles and shooting than you most likely will otherwise. FWIW Pilgrim :-P [smilie=b:

[TXGunNut]

Welcome to the affliction! When I first came here I read for hours at a time, it's a wonder my head didn't explode. I prefer the 20# Lee bottom pour pot, doesn't cost much more than the smaller or standard 20# pot and much more versatile. Volume casting is easier for me with a bottom pour but sometimes a ladle works better. More than a few folks ladle everything, do whatever works best for you and your moulds.
Lee moulds and sizers are a good place to start if you're feeding a handgun and don't want to invest in a Lyman/RCBS/Star sizer right now.
Have fun, be safe! Lots of good info in the Lyman and Lee manuals in addition to many of the sticky threads around here.

[clintsfolly]

7000\ 230 = 30.43 boolets Clint. Miss the 2nd page but I was right too!

[Blackwater]

FWIW, when I started casting nearly 50 years ago now, I was getting WW's for free and lube was @ $1.25 a stick, IIRC. I stole one of my wife's stainless cooking pots and used it to melt the lead in. Used the stove to heat it. Had a 20cav. Lee mould in .357, and cast literally TONS of bullets with that modest equipment. this was back when I was in college full time, married and with a child. Pretty busy fellow back then!

Biggest thing you'll need to watch for is controlling the temp of your pot and your mould. It doesn't take long to watch how the lead flows, if you just pay attention and focus. The hotter the mix, the more "liquidy" it becomes and the faster it flows. When the mould or metal is a little too hot, the bullets come out sort of "frosted" looking - more of a matte finish but still shiny. You have to learn what number on your dial to keep the thermostat on from experience and experimentation, but it comes pretty quickly, again if you just pay attention. Temp control is the biggest asset you'll learn, and the mould and your pot will teach you that if you just let it.

As someone already said, "Welcome to the affliction." I can't think of anything more appropriate to say. Enjoy! And BTW, casting won't save you much, if any money. We all just shoot a lot more for the same (sometimes even more) money, but THAT is the only way for a fellow to become a good shot, provided he gets good advice/tutelage to start with. Not many of us get furnished free ammo like the big names who shoot for the big companies, so casting is the biggest asset an aspiring handgunner, or any other type of shooter, can really have in his corner. It really hasn't been that long ago when most folks were pretty good shots, even the moms at home who had to take care of things when Dad was gone. Casting helps us get back to that at a price most of us can afford. And don't worry if you get something wrong at first. We've ALL been through that. Just learn from any "mistakes," and you'll be casting like a pro very quickly.

[jkcerda]

Picked up a small box of free WW from China world. Now I need to order my pot & moulds. Ordering ingots from a member here

[jkcerda]

seems its not all lead, going to have to learn how to sort it.

[country gent]

Also invest in a piece of sheet metal or ply wood to use between bench top and casting pot equipment. Saves on burns on the surface. Gives a "safe" place to sit hot utensils also. A Lee mould and pot is how most started out. Cast in the garage or outside as smoke, fumes and heat in the house can be an issue

[Bullwolf]

It can be a big help if you update your profile information with a location. Give us a rough idea at least of where you are located.

Perhaps an experienced hand loader and boolit caster already lives close by, maybe even close enough to become a mentor.

It's much easier learning this stuff if you have someone who has done it all before sitting next to you, to help things along.


- Bullwolf

[jkcerda]

I'm in ontario CAlif. Hands on instruction would be GREAT

[bruce381]

all good info, go slow go small to start. But I would try to start off with high qauilty standards as far a defects go you can always remelt and practice more.

[RayinNH]

seems its not all lead, going to have to learn how to sort it.

Here ya go http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?139839-Guide-to-Hand-Sorting-Wheel-Weights.

[Foto Joe]

The wheel weights you picked up undoubtedly have some "steels" and some "zincs" in there and in California there may not even be any lead ones, it's illegal in your state, go figure.

As far as the ones that aren't lead you don't have to sweat the steel ones, they'll just float to the top of the melt. The zincs on the other hand WILL melt if you get your pot too hot and then you'll have a really nice door stop when it cools, zinc is a no-no in your boolits. When you're first starting out just use a set of dikes or side cutters to "bite" each weight as you sort. If you can get a "bite" mark then it's lead. Once you've got a few hundred pounds under your belt (lead that is) you'll be able to smelt without sorting by keeping a good control on your smelting temps even without a thermometer.

Also VERY important: DON'T smelt wheel weights in the same pot that you're going to cast out of. It's not the end of the world if you do but it really makes a mess out of your casting pot. Some of us have learned this one the hard way.

[MtGun44]

Strongly recommend H&G 68 clone for .45 ACP. This is a 200 gr SWC. 230 gr RN just wastes
an extra 15% lead each shot for no gain. RN is less effective in targets and small game
than SWC. This design will feed 100% reliably in any modern 1911, and others with early
XDs the only known problem child, later ones have that fixed. Accurate Molds 45-200H is a
very good clone. If you use an H&G 68 clone set LOA to 1.250 to 1.260.

Size to .452, lube with NRA formula 50-50 or LBT soft blue. Recommend Bullseye or
Titegroup powder, 4.0 gr is min that will reliably function in most pistols, 4.8 is about
850 fps, nice working load. In this cartridge, the two are essentially interchangeable.

RN is not one whit more reliable in feeding in 99.9% of modern pistols, although there
is a common claim that it is. Setting LOA to match the requirements of your pistols
to not 'fail to close' and taper crimping as a separate operation are mandatory. Drop
test into dismounted barrel is how you set LOA and TC degree, although I prefer
about .466 diam at extreme end of case. Many will claim that any TC beyond removal
of flare is somehow bad, this is not correct information. .470 is case diam, crimp to this
diam is just acceptable, with no actual crimp occuring, no margin for error, and no margin
for crud in the chamber being scraped forward by case mouth. A few thousandths smaller
gives a bit of margin and better grip on boolit, pushing a boolit into case during feeding
causes severe overpressure.

Alloy can be anything, wheelweight hardness of 10-12 BHN is very good, harder is
wasting alloy components and money. If you tumble lube, this caliber is likely to
succeed when it fails in less forgiving calibers like 9mm.

No or inadequate taper crimp is the number one cause of failures to close, often
described as "jamming". I repeat - "overcrimping" by .004 or so (smaller than .470 diam) is a
myth, never caused any problems while undercrimping is THE MOST COMMON
problem in semiautos.

Most serious safety error is double charging cases, be extremely careful in any of the
large cases (.38/357, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, etc) to not double charge.

Bill

[Fishman]

Don't know if it was mentioned, but a $15 hot plate is really good money to spend, particularly with a small pot. Getting the mould up to temp without cooling off your melt is a good thing.

I second or third the 2 cavity mould suggestion. There is nothing wrong with lee equipment. With .45, tumble lube is just fine.

[mdi]

"The only way to learn to cast bullets, is to cast bullets" heard this said often. Another hint; don't melt any wheel weights or scrap in your Lee pot. It takes only a wee tiny speck of dirt to cause a leak, so if you do any smelting, don't do it in your Lee pot...

[jkcerda]

This it?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/336035/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-452-200-swc-45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt-long-colt-452-diameter-200-grain-semi-wadcutter

[RayinNH]

This it?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/336035/lee-6-cavity-bullet-mold-452-200-swc-45-acp-45-auto-rim-45-colt-long-colt-452-diameter-200-grain-semi-wadcutter

Yes to Biil's suggestion.

[popper]

Do this to your Lee dripper http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?266733-Lee-dripper-mod. Get a Lee 2 cav. mould (consider it your bicycle on training wheels), 45acp first. I've got a good 168 gr slightly used Accurate alum 4x mould for the 308 that I could part with, after you get off the training wheels. I just use the slick sided version now.

[Foto Joe]

As the OP has probably already figured out that there are those around that don't care for Lee or any bottom pour pots. I've run a lot of lead through a Lee 4-20 bottom pour, I've never had an issue other than the occasional "single drip". I'm not sure why some folks have problems with bottom pours. One of the tricks that I use is to just keep a little tart pan (miniature pie tin) on the pot pedestal to catch any spills, drips etc.

The only time I've ever had a real issue is when I got carried away adjusting the spout when it was glazed over and ran the stem out too far. When the spout got up to temp and opened up things got interesting real fast since I'd actually run the stem right out of its threads trying to adjust it.

[jkcerda]

do cast bullets need to be resized?

[markshere2]

Sometimes.

[jkcerda]

Sometimes.
guessing its due to the mould?

[1989toddm]

guessing its due to the mould?

It depends on what size the boolits drop at vs what size your gun needs. I've got away many times with loading as cast from lee molds..but they are not all the same. Do a search of how to slug your barrel to determine the size you need.

[Sgt Petro]

Welcome!
All excellent suggestions.
The two top suggestions that saved me the most frustration and discouragement are:

1: Buy a Tel-Tru thermometer. Alot of bad looking boolits are from various heat problems. Lets you stay consistent. Keeps the boolits looking sharp and the cursing down to a minimum. It will also let us help you a lot more when you post a problem or question.

2: Slug the bore of every firearm you cast for. There is lots of threads on how to do it. When you hit a snag and ask for help, it will almost always be the first question asked of you "what did your bore slug at"? It saves you a lot of money in the sizing dept and lets you grab the right molds. Many many people have chased their tail trying to solve accuracy, leading and bullet seat problems without ever slugging the bore.

[jonp]

Yes to Biil's suggestion.

I had an easier time getting the RNFP to work when I was first starting than any swc/tc boolit.

[jkcerda]

I had an easier time getting the RNFP to work when I was first starting than any swc/tc boolit.
Thinking of buying some SWC & loading them BEFORE I buy the mould, just wish I could buy 10-50 instead of the min of 500

[Doggonekid]

do cast bullets need to be resized?

I size all of my cast boolits. It makes them perfectly round. The more uniform you can make your boolits the more consistent your patterns become and that makes improving your accuracy easier. I also feel that sized boolits are easer to load.

I'm with everyone else I would start with a two cavity mold. I have been casting a long time and I still use two cavity molds. I not in a race to see how many I can make in a short amount of time. I cast because I enjoy doing it. I too started with a RCBS pot and a ladle. I loved it for years. I still have them. Don't use them anymore, I now have two bottom pours. Lyman and RCBS. Enjoy your new addiction. Keep reading this form everyone is very kind and willing to help. There are a lot of guys that really really know their stuff.

[Wayne Smith]

Thinking of buying some SWC & loading them BEFORE I buy the mould, just wish I could buy 10-50 instead of the min of 500
There is a boolit exchange portion of the site down in shopping and selling. I would suggest you post your desires for a few (probably no less than 25 each) of several designs before you buy a mold. I'll bet you get what you want.