Weird off set sizing issue

[CLP]

Mould is a Lee 430-310-RF, alloy is 96Pb3Sb1Sn. Hornady gas checks.

I cast some to work up a load and chrony them. Using a RCBS Lubrisizer. Lyman sizing die- .430. Now the top punch I used was whichever one is used for Lyman's 44cal Devastator. That one had the best fit of the two I had, and you can see that it beveled the meplat. Using some 'ol all purpose blue RCBS lube.

Now here's where it gets weird. As I start sizing these bullets I notice that the front driving band starts getting a taller on one side of the bullet. It's minor, so I don't give it much thought at first. Possibly a soft bullet that doesn't harden evenly? No, it's progressive. And it progressively worsens as you can see by the photos. I rotated the bullets 180 degrees so that you can see how it's affecting only one side of the bullet. To the point that the one side is squashed to the point of a mirror like finish and the loss of the lube and crimp grooves.

What gives? Anybody have any idea what might be causing this? Appreciate your help! Thanks

PS- I'm also posting this on THR to see if anyone there knows what's going on.

[bowenrd]

You need a top punch that fits not just one that you have that is close. Looks like your top punch is pushing out of alignment.

[CLP]

I think I would agree if not for the fact that it progressively worsened. It never got better or varied. Also the beveled impression the top punch left was consistent and didn't show any variance from one side compared to the other. I think a different top punch would be more suitable but I don't think it's the cause of this particular problem.

[w30wcf]

CLP,
Welcome to the forum. The best fix is to use a flat faced punch. You could use a short flat faced bolt or just the face of the ram with no top punch. The best option would be a flat face top punch like the ones offered from http://www.accuratemolds.com/order.php

http://www.accuratemolds.com/img/aluminumPunches.jpg

w30wcf
.

[GP100man]

Just a plain TP is what I use .

What`s happening the meplat is slipping in the TP & cocking the body of the boolit to 1 side .

Ya can just fill the TP with hot glue or JB weld until it`s flat.

GP

[44man]

A dab of lube on the FP or boolit nose will help. It is a common problem with lube sizers. A Lee push through will solve it too.
That is a very good boolit. I push them through base first if there is a GC, keeps them tight to the boolit.

[theperfessor]

Top punch issues. I can help. See sig line. Also, try starting bullet a little way into die, raise ram a little, then in and out.

[btroj]

Get a flat punch from theperfessor and be done with it. The flat punch works as it can slide across the top of the bullet pushing it downward with no lateral pressure. Your current punch is pushing the nose down AND to the side causing the problem you see. A flat nose punch isn't capable of applying very much, if any, lateral force.

This is why guys like the Star sizer or Lee push thru sizers so much. This just doesn't happen.

[TomAM]

129122Alignment defect with the press. Fitted top punches are a bad idea with a press of this type.

[HeavyMetal]

Flat top punch is the answer but a Star is the cure, LOL!

[Yodogsandman]

Top punch cross reference for Lee molds to RCBS/Lyman top punches...

http://www.castpics.net/subsite/TopPunches/Lee.html

[leadman]

Use a flat top punch as stated. Also the die in the RCBS is somewhat capable of being aligned with the top punch. Use a top punch with an outside diameter that will just enter the die. With the retaining nut loose run the top punch into the die and then tighten the retaining nut.
There is a section in the RCBS instructions on checking the alignment of the top punch and die. It does not go into the fact that the die has a little movement to allow it to be aligned a small amount. The instructions are difficult to find on the RCBS website so go to the search bar on the website and type in "instructions".

Also an easy way to get the retaining nut started is to place a large nut on the top and lower the ram gently while turning the retaining nut. The nut keeps the retaining nut level so the threads start easier.

[geargnasher]

Top punch issues. I can help. See sig line. Also, try starting bullet a little way into die, raise ram a little, then in and out.


129122Alignment defect with the press. Fitted top punches are a bad idea with a press of this type.

This! Get a flat top punch from either gentleman (I have both of the sizes Tom made from before The Perfesser started making them) and do the lift-off thing to equalize sideways pressure from the ram once you get the bullet started straight in the die, you'll be fine.

As a side note, with either the Star or the Lee push-through systems, the "lift off" trick is also invaluable to keep from forcing the bullet into the die crooked. It seems there is no truly perfect system.

Gear

[stubert]

I have the devastator mold, I took an old top punch that I had and ground it to a point, approx. the same shape as the hollowpoint. it seems to self center and doesn't change the profile at all. Best of all it was free.

[Pilgrim]

Had an alignment problem with my 1st RCBS lube sizer, maybe 20 -25 years ago. RCBS replaced it with a new unit PDQ. If you have an alignment problem with the press, contact RCBS instead of fighting it. They will make the problem go away for you. That is a much better, and simpler solution. Pilgrim

[CLP]

Not an alignment problem. Haven't had this problem with other bullets. But...

It's not from sizing oversized bullets. The cast diameter is 0.43005 to 0.431. So I'm sizing a thou or less.


Top punch was clean; no gunk or shavings in there.


There was plenty of lube in the reservoir.


However, the sizing die was of interest. I'll have to get a picture up later. I'm heating it up so I can push the sizing die "rod" out to inspect it further. That RCBS blue lube is like glue when room temp. Anyway, the bottom of that rod has some gouges from something, about four of them, one at least a quarter of an inch long. Maybe they're a couple thou deep. Rubbing against something I'd think. COuld there have been grit in the reservoir or lube that couldve gotten in there? The die is ruined I'd imagine.

And I'm definitely going to get that flat bottomed top punch!

[geargnasher]

Not an alignment problem. Your pictures indicate a severe alignment problem. Haven't had this problem with other bullets. But...but...maybe you didn't notice it because they were a different shape? How do you KNOW the other bullets were still concentric, did you actually measure them in a vee block or do a runout test?

It's not from sizing oversized bullets. The cast diameter is 0.43005 to 0.431. So I'm sizing a thou or less.


Top punch was clean; no gunk or shavings in there.


There was plenty of lube in the reservoir.


However, the sizing die was of interest. I'll have to get a picture up later. I'm heating it up so I can push the sizing die "rod" out to inspect it further. That RCBS blue lube is like glue when room temp. Anyway, the bottom of that rod has some gouges from something, about four of them, one at least a quarter of an inch long. Maybe they're a couple thou deep. Rubbing against something I'd think. COuld there have been grit in the reservoir or lube that couldve gotten in there? The die is ruined I'd imagine.

And I'm definitely going to get that flat bottomed top punch!

Yes, get a flat-bottomed punch, and carefully guide your bullets into the die.

Gear

[btroj]

Something is going on with the sizing, that is obvious. Easiest, most likely, and fastest solution is a flat bottom punch.

Why do people say this is the problem? Easy, they had the same problem. Tom and Keith make the flat bottom punches for a reason.

[gray wolf]

Flat faced top punch sounds great, do they make them for 44 mag and 357 bullets?
I have that same problem some times.

[Geezer in NH]

Never use the screw on the top punch IMHO use a bit of lube to hold it in the press

[btroj]

They really don't have to be caliber specific. I would want something a bit larger than the flat on the bullet nose but that is all. Too big and it may not let you fully size a short bullet but otherwise size doesn't really matter.

Get 3 or 4 and you are prepared for all size bullets. My Star only gets used with 3 punches even though I size 313 to 460.