You can't shoot that in a 1911

[Friends call me Pac]

Stopped at Wally World tonight and saw they had some 45 acp lead round nose cartridges in the showcase. I pointed them out to the clerk and said I was surprised to see them. We got to talking and he said he had just recently bought a Rock Island 1911. When I asked if he had shot any of the lead round nose to save any money he said there was no way he was shooting them in his 1911. I asked if it was because of a leading problem. He told me leading wasn't the problem. The problem was that he had a 1911 pistol and 45 acp ammo was not designed to shoot in a 1911. Only cartridges marked 1911 would work. 45 acp would work fine in any other .45 acp pistol just not 1911's. I thought he was joking at first but it didn't take long to realize he was dead serious. :shock:

[Dhammer]

My head hurts. But I have heard worse sadly. Seen 10mm and 9? Both firing as single shots idiots couldn't figure out why. Ummm because you are shooting wrong caliber out of em.

[Frank46]

I was in wally world the other day. No worries about getting the wrong info or ammo. Shelves looked like they always have. Little or no ammo. Lady said they got what was sent. Either that or the employees are saving it for their friends. Or selling to the gun show dealers. Truly pitiful. Frank

[JB Weld]

I love it when I hear the gunslingers behind the counter cranking out the great advice! :veryconfu

The WM I normally go to has the shelves full of ammo. EXCEPT 22LR!

[nagantguy]

Feel your pain while ago at a public range I was shooting at cause I didn't own the farm yet and it was close to home, saw 3 older guys and a young kid all standing around in what I call the duh head scratch confused look. I said what's the trouble guys? Wish I wouldn't have asked!The 22lr cartridges kept falling out of the 222 Ruger 77 they were loading them into. I said guys that's a center fire rifle, got the look again, it won't work wrong ammo for that gun. The oldest of them asked me for real if .22 mag would work. The other folks with him got what I was saying, the lost guy owned all the weapons they had at the range and was giving some friends and a kid a shooting lesson!!!!! And he didn't know what ammo his rifle.fired and was just gonna try stuff until SOMETHING went bang!

[gray wolf]

Yes it's truly pathetic, the bad news is it's getting worse by the Minute.
Just check out youtube and search for fools with ( add your own search term ) or fails with. I was amazed at the total lack of brain cells of any kind.
Most of these folks would last about 5 seconds around my camp. The gun stuff ? totally mind blowing.

I see it constantly at my little range. At times I wish I had some soft body Armor, and my range is a semi privet range.

Humanity is in a downward spiral.

[Artful]

I see it constantly at my little range. At times I wish I had some soft body Armor, and my range is a semi privet range.

Body Armor is cheap - what's your life worth? - remember most soft armor is only good against handgun rounds.

https://drmorgear.wordpress.com/
soft
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/body-armor.html

plate armor
http://www.maingun.biz/Body_Armor_Steel_Patriot_Plate_p/patplatepair10x12twocurve.htm

[MaryB]

I picked up a box of 380 at WalMart on Monday to replenish my stock until I am totally setup to reload it. Dweeb behind the counter starts going on how that wasn't any good past a few feet etc etc then asked what gun my husband used. I told him it was for my pistol and I was headed to the range if he would care to watch me hit the steel flip targets at 20 yards with it... silence was golden...

[Artful]

:-P
Funny stuff there MaryB

[doc1876]

I really enjoy a good story before I turn in for the night.........thanks, I will chuckle all night as I dream of silly people instead of the bad stuff on the news.

[tommag]

Where does one find this ammo marked 1911?

[Bzcraig]

The scary thing is they are buying guns instead of trying to buy common sense which we all know is getting more and more uncommon!

[retread]

Where does one find this ammo marked 1911?
It the ammo with green stuff growing on it.

[Plate plinker]

Ouch that's gonna heart at some pont. Err bang.

[Petrol & Powder]

On the .380Auto topic: I encountered a truck driver with some type of Soviet era Makarov pistol and noticed that he had .380 cartridges in the magazine. Now a lot of Makarov's are rebarreled in .380 but this one clearly had the original 9x18 barrel. I politely attempted to tell him that it wasn't chambered in .380 but he would have nothing to do with my warning. He said it cycled fine and therefore it was "A 380" .
Another individual that had a Sig P230 purchased 9mm luger cartridges for it because the slide was marked 9mm Kurz. He was shocked when the 9mm Luger cartridges wouldn't chamber. When told that the gun wasn't chambered for the 9mm luger; he said "it is a 9mm". I commented that technically he was right and wished him luck.

[rondog]

Keep in mind those people vote. And drive. And breed.

[6bg6ga]

You just can't fix stupid.

[FISH4BUGS]

Stopped at Wally World tonight and saw they had some 45 acp lead round nose cartridges in the showcase. I pointed them out to the clerk and said I was surprised to see them. We got to talking and he said he had just recently bought a Rock Island 1911. When I asked if he had shot any of the lead round nose to save any money he said there was no way he was shooting them in his 1911. I asked if it was because of a leading problem. He told me leading wasn't the problem. The problem was that he had a 1911 pistol and 45 acp ammo was not designed to shoot in a 1911. Only cartridges marked 1911 would work. 45 acp would work fine in any other .45 acp pistol just not 1911's. I thought he was joking at first but it didn't take long to realize he was dead serious. :shock:

What is scary is that these kind of ignorant (I can't call them stupid - just ignorant - there is a difference - I am ignorant of nuclear plasma physics but I COULD learn) eople actually WORK behing the gun counter in places like this and give advice to customers. Man, that kind of stupidity will get them sued someday.

[Lloyd Smale]

about like the gun salesman at gander mountain I herd telling a customer that was looking at a 454 raging bull tarrus that he knew of two grown men that broke there hands shooting one just like it.

[TheDoctor]

Someone here has a signature line that I love. Something about not arguing with people whose education exceeds their intelligence. I swear some of the wm gun counter people I talk to do not even have a GED.

[Love Life]

Wow. Just wow.

[Rick Hodges]

Damn, and I don't have any 1911 ammo....going to have to sell the Colt....It is amazing what the gun counter hero's come up with.....buy this latest whiz bang magnum rifle because you can hold dead on and kill a deer from 50-1000 yds...shoots so flat....
You hear of the .22 cal confusion often what with 22lr, .222, 22Hornet, 223, 224, 225, 22-250 etal.....is 30 cal. confusion as bad? I guess so. What is so difficult is you can't convince them they are wrong.

[Love Life]

^^I'll give you 5 boxes of 1911 ammo for your Colt. Straight across.

[Smoke4320]

Someone here has a signature line that I love. Something about not arguing with people whose education exceeds their intelligence. I swear some of the wm gun counter people I talk to do not even have a GED.

Ones around here can't even spell GED

[rosewood]

I swear some of the wm gun counter people I talk to do not even have a GED.

Why do you think they are working at WM?

[rosewood]

about like the gun salesman at gander mountain I herd telling a customer that was looking at a 454 raging bull tarrus that he knew of two grown men that broke there hands shooting one just like it.

Can't remember what post it was, but a guy on GBO or Encoreclassifieds said he had broken his wrist with one of the big boomers in the contender so he didn't shoot the big boomers anymore. Can't remember what caliber it was. I suppose if you were not strong enough and or had some brittle bone issues, it could happen???? However, the Taurus is quite heavy and my 5 3/4" model 629 recoils a bit more than my brother's 8 3/8 .454 taurus. I do recall my sister shooting the Taurus though. She is 5' and about 120lbs. She fired, took step back to keep her balance, stepped back up and fired again, nary a problem. :) Needless to say, we were quite proud.

I do hear a lot of BS "shop talk" coming from a lot of folks that seem to think they have to 1 up others. Sometimes it is the salesman, sometimes it is the customer. It is hard to walk away sometimes being a gun nut as I am, but sometimes, I just let them be wrong.

[JD74]

Where does one find this ammo marked 1911?

its actually out there I was shocked.
http://www.winchester.com/library/news/Pages/win1911-ammunition-line.aspx

[M-Tecs]

But that will only work in Winchester 1911's:kidding::kidding:

[Handloader109]

It isn't that they vote and breed, they are the ones spreading ignorance about the rest of us. These are the folks the anti gun crowd can point to and honestly say look at that dumb smuck.

[bob208]

this is not new anybody remember the Remington 14 and 141 that had the head of a cartage imbedded in the left side of the receiver? it was in hopes they would match up the ammo to it. then there is the .303 savage used in a .303 enfield. after all thy are both .303.

[flyingrhino]

Wanted: 1911 dies in trade for my well used 45acp dies. I guess I've been shooting the wrong ammo for the past 30 years. Damn!

[Thin Man]

This story has been building for years and will only get worse. Most younger people (from where I'm at that is almost everyone!) were not raised by a father, older brother or role model who was a hunter or shooter. Very few have military experience. Short story, no exposure to firearms and associated activities. They learn (?) on their own by the various media to which they are addicted. Thus "9mm" is the same as "9mm Kurz", a 1911 pistol requires ammo branded "1911", and so on. Only through the help of experienced shooters will the next generation be able to catch up. Don't get down on them, give them a helping hand. Those wise enough to learn and benefit from being taught about these issues will make safer individuals. For those who reject the message and stumble along on their own, there will always be more Darwin Awards to pass out.

Thin Man

[country gent]

One bright,warm and sunny Sunday afternoon I was talking with a new member at our club and offering some pointers as he was new and asked for some help. I was looking at ammo and saw 10mm, 40 S&W, 9MM and 380 along with some others on the bench stacked neatly of to the side. I asked to see the 380 and 40 as I thought I had seen all his handguns. He informed me that the 40 and 380 were just light loads for the 10mm and 9mm just like 38 and 44 specials in magnum revolvers. I tried to explain that the rounds he was using headspaved on the case mouth not a rim but got nowhere with it.

[dakotashooter2]

Makes one wonder how the gangbangers come up with the right ammo for the stolen guns they use. Suprised we don't here more about them blowing themselves up..............

[Love Life]

I'm a mixed bag of reactions to these things. If it is an older gentlemen, then I'll usually let them wallow in their ignorance of a subject. If someone close to my age or younger, then I'll try to help and educate. I always try to help and educate women who may have gotten bum scoop from somewhere.

[nagantguy]

I picked up a box of 380 at WalMart on Monday to replenish my stock until I am totally setup to reload it. Dweeb behind the counter starts going on how that wasn't any good past a few feet etc etc then asked what gun my husband used. I told him it was for my pistol and I was headed to the range if he would care to watch me hit the steel flip targets at 20 yards with it... silence was golden...
Great, as always a classy lady comes out on top during an exchange with a mental midget.

[Harter66]

I have picked up some 9mm brass with a decidedly obvious flat ring around the mouth and a huge fish belly . My guess is 9x19 in a 9x18,also a steel 233 fired in a 6.8spc ,7mm Rem Mag with the most perfect Weatherby shoulder and a short neck. My favorite Wal Mart guy was looking for 7.62 brushes and a cleaning kit for 7.62x39. I don't if he actually took the advice on just using his 30-30 kit or not . He did tell me he had pistol kits for 9mm,38/357 and 32 Auto. It was about the time the last big surge of caliber specific rods came around ,so I suppose it's possible that he just really didn't know that 30,31,32 cal would share a sized rod just fine.

[dakotashooter2]

It is somewhat amusing about what and what not some shooters get technical about. I'm envisioning a shooter having no issues with buying 9mm Kurtz for their 9mm luger but making a fuss because all they can find is cleaning brushes for the 357 but none for the 9mm.....................

[Pb Burner]

And if you think .22LR is hard to find, try finding some 10/22 ammo for your Ruger!

[Harter66]

Looking for a light boolit for my GF to shoot in my K38.
Do you have a 9mm mould?
Yes but the 356-85 RN for my 9mm Kurtz is too small for my 38.

You know you've read that.

[Artful]

On the .380Auto topic: I encountered a truck driver with some type of Soviet era Makarov pistol and noticed that he had .380 cartridges in the magazine. Now a lot of Makarov's are rebarreled in .380 but this one clearly had the original 9x18 barrel. I politely attempted to tell him that it wasn't chambered in .380 but he would have nothing to do with my warning. He said it cycled fine and therefore it was "A 380" .

Used to see this all the time with imported 9mm largo Pistols.
Especially the Blow back's like Astra 400.
People would show up with anything that would fit in the chamber
- and darned things would usually function.

[oldred]

When I first saw this thread I thought hey I got one to tell also but after reading the other replies mine won't seem like much!

A couple of years ago I was in WalMart (wow, how many of these stories start out with that line, but honest it's usually true) and a 50ish guy there holding a bunch of camping gear was inquiring about some "30 by 30" rounds, -30 by 30??????[smilie=b: He was telling the guy back of the counter about his big up-coming deer hunt, as if the poor fella was interested, and somewhere in the conversation he mentioned that he had been hunting there for years, hunting for years but yet asking for 30 by 30 ammo??? :groner:

[Beerd]

At least the WM gun guy in post #1 understands (sort of) that the numbers and letters on the "bullet" has to be the same as the numbers and letters stamped on the gun.
I wish him luck and hope he doesn't hurt himself or someone else.
..

[Cowpoke]

Makes one wonder how the gangbangers come up with the right ammo for the stolen guns they use. Suprised we don't here more about them blowing themselves up..............

Another while at Wal-Mart story..... I was looking over the guns there a while back and a wanna be "banger" walks up and ask the lady behind the counter "Gots enny nines?" I'll be durn without even blinking an eye, if she didn't turn around and hand him a box of 9mm Luger.

[gwpercle]

I was looking at a Weatherby scope once and the "sales person" said they would only fit on Weatherby rifles. Unless I had a Weatherby rifle there was no use in me buying it. WOW!
My friend said he had a Weaver scope and wanted to buy a Weaver rifle to go with it, "sales person" actually looked around for a Weaver rifle! They didn't stock them....We left in utter amazement !
Gary

[jcwit]

At least most of these folks are working, and not having their hand out for a welfare check.

[oldred]

At least most of these folks are working, and not having their hand out for a welfare check.

True but it sure sounds as if they would qualify for a check!

[DuckHunterJon]

I've got a recent one. Was at Gander Mountain on Friday to pick up some things for ice fishing. Took a stroll back to the guns, and had to stand in line to take a look at an older used S&W model 36. The guy in front of me was looking at every different AR in the rack, and asks if there's anything else he can mount on the rails, besides the scope, laser, and flashlight that's already on it. When asked to clarify, he says "can I mount knives, or other guns to it". The guy behind the counter says no, not really and I'm thinking fwew, glad he's talking to someone that will keep him straight. Then (I swear, I couldn't make this up if I tried) the clerk proceeds to tell him he really needs this gun, and hands him an AR carbine in 9mm. The clerk goes on to say that its a much more powerful bullet because its a bigger round! The two of them sat there, looking down the barrels comparing the hole in the end.

I almost said something, but I just quietly went to the next clerk, bought the 36, and left. Unreal...

[Springfield]

It's not just ignorant gun people, they are in all walks of life. Many years ago when I worked as a motorcycle Mechanic, a guy came in with a wheel and tire and wanted the flat fixed. So I fixed it for him while he watched, and when I went to put the air in he said hey, don't do that. I asked why, He said " I rolled that over here from 6 blocks away , and it is kinda heavy, and if you put in another 38 lbs of air I don't think I will be able to roll it home". And he was dead serious. So I told him I had to put in at least a little bit to re-seat the tire, and then filled it all the way up. He took the wheel from me, rolled it a bit and said, yeah, this seems ok, good thing you didn't fill it all the way up, though.

[Artful]

The two of them sat there, looking down the barrels comparing the hole in the end.

Can't wait for comparison between 300 win mag and 30-30 with that clerk.

[Kent Fowler]

Where does one find this ammo marked 1911?

If you had paid attention in math class, instead of having dirty thoughts about the cheer leader who sat in front of you, you would have known you could find it between the 1910 ammo and the 1912 ammo. Education is a wonderful thing.

[gkainz]

And if you think .22LR is hard to find, try finding some 10/22 ammo for your Ruger!

Wait! What? I thought 10/22 was the ammo combo I needed for my 10 gauge/.22 over-under? :)

[rosewood]

Got a couple of ones myself. Was in Dick's sporting goods. Had a sale on Savage 110 rifles with scope for like $300 and it only came in .30-06 and .270. Guy wanted a .308, I said why don't you get the .30-06 and he said the .308 had more shock power. I told him they used the same bullet but he didn't get it. I just let it go.

Was in Academy (or WM) can't remember for sure. Guy was looking at a 870 with his girlfriend and asked the clerk if they had the 870 in an automatic. The clerk said no. Just shook my head.

[shdwlkr]

Funny about the 1911 not being able to fire lead bullets, I must have one of the mistakes actually several 1911's that shoot lead, and horrors of horrors hollow point bullets.
You need to sometimes enjoy the counter folks as some of them don't even know the difference between center fire and rim fire forget calibers. I once got told that my 22 WMR ammo would not work in any rim fire rifle because it was too big. Even got told once that I didn't need stingers in my 22 as they would blow up if fired in a standard 22 lr firearm.

Walmart, Sportsmans, Cabellas they all hire low paid help that might know the difference between a rifle and shotgun or maybe a revolver and semi automatic pistol but don't confuse them with calibers.

[archmaker]

I just shake my head when I read this. Not because they are idiots, but because in this day and age, when 'SMART' phones are everywhere (I intentionally emphasized smart), there is should be no excuse to take a few minutes and learn something. I might excuse the guy who is looking for 1911 ammo, if he does not have a cell phone with no web browser, and he does not have access to internet, (I would say the library is an option, but that is not always the case anymore), then he is just 'lazy dumb' and why is he even breathing!

I don't know what to call that, stupid or idiot, would be an insult to the people that ARE stupid and idiots.

[35isit]

Not all employees behind the counter are stupid. My wife worked at a K-mart in our hometown in the office. Whenever there was a question about guns and their ammo they used to go get her. If she couldn't tell she would call me. They used to get a lot of mens wives buying for them to go deer hunting.

[DLCTEX]

My pastor loaned his nephew a rifle to hunt deer with that he had gotten from his father. The nephew came to me because he was unable to find 303 Savage ammo. We ordered dies and brass and when it arrived he brought the rifle over. I looked at it and immediately knew it was an Arisaka 7.7 x 58. He showed me the partial box of 303 Savage he had left that came with the rifle and said he had shot those and another box. I checked with pastor, who confirmed that was what he and his dad had always fired in it.. When I discussed it with the dad, he said maybe that was why it never shot well.

[archmaker]

Ok, my wife just informed me of something similar. She worked for a law firm, and they were talking with a client and asked the client what was the name of the Doctor that prescribed his medicene. He said he could not pronounce it, but he could spell it.

Dr. A-u-t-h-r-e-q-u-i-r-e-d

[dakotashooter2]

Not all employees behind the counter are stupid. My wife worked at a K-mart in our hometown in the office. Whenever there was a question about guns and their ammo they used to go get her. If she couldn't tell she would call me. They used to get a lot of mens wives buying for them to go deer hunting.

Your statement makes somewhat of a point. Many employees these days are too ignorant, stupid or embarassed to ask for help if they don't know the answer. It's easier for them just to say no or fabricate an answer. Fortunately some know where to go for help....

[jcren]

Sadly, it's not just wm employees. Last year, my father in law bought a Rossi revolving rifle from a family owned gunshop that had been in business for 15+ years. He asked me to load him something hotter than the cowboy loads he was finding, so when I was in that town the next day, I stopped in the shop. Signs on the door proclaiming "certified glock armorer" and "gunsmith on site". Asked the older man at the counter (the owner) if said gun was +p rated or not. Was informed that only 38 special is available in +p and that was the 158gr swc that police used. I politely tried to explain +p when a younger guy (son/"gunsmith") assured me that there was no such thing as a high pressure 45 Colt load, only cowboy loads.

[Cmm_3940]

When I first saw this thread I thought hey I got one to tell also but after reading the other replies mine won't seem like much!

A couple of years ago I was in WalMart (wow, how many of these stories start out with that line, but honest it's usually true) and a 50ish guy there holding a bunch of camping gear was inquiring about some "30 by 30" rounds, -30 by 30??????[smilie=b: He was telling the guy back of the counter about his big up-coming deer hunt, as if the poor fella was interested, and somewhere in the conversation he mentioned that he had been hunting there for years, hunting for years but yet asking for 30 by 30 ammo??? :groner:


Would that possibly be .30"x30mm? :-P

[alamogunr]

I guess I'm just lucky or living right. The range I belong to is usually deserted during the week(I'm retired). The few that are there are well versed about guns, reloading, etc. But not casting. I have never seen anything close to the things mentioned here.

A nearby gunshop has a very good gunsmith by reputation. I don't know if he goes beyond repair, but the few things he has done for me have earned my trust.

The owner is very knowledgeable. The problem is he is unbearably overbearing at times. Catch him in a good mood and he will educate you. Another problem is his prices. The shop has some very good high end stuff but is priced even higher.

[jcwit]

True but it sure sounds as if they would qualify for a check!

LOL, everyone does.

[LUBEDUDE]

I was looking at a Weatherby scope once and the "sales person" said they would only fit on Weatherby rifles. Unless I had a Weatherby rifle there was no use in me buying it. WOW!
My friend said he had a Weaver scope and wanted to buy a Weaver rifle to go with it, "sales person" actually looked around for a Weaver rifle! They didn't stock them....We left in utter amazement !
Gary

I bet they had sum Tasco rifles! :bigsmyl2:

[LUBEDUDE]

It's not just ignorant gun people, they are in all walks of life. Many years ago when I worked as a motorcycle Mechanic, a guy came in with a wheel and tire and wanted the flat fixed. So I fixed it for him while he watched, and when I went to put the air in he said hey, don't do that. I asked why, He said " I rolled that over here from 6 blocks away , and it is kinda heavy, and if you put in another 38 lbs of air I don't think I will be able to roll it home". And he was dead serious. So I told him I had to put in at least a little bit to re-seat the tire, and then filled it all the way up. He took the wheel from me, rolled it a bit and said, yeah, this seems ok, good thing you didn't fill it all the way up, though.

He WAS Blonde right? :veryconfu

[Harter66]

Or a Bushnell?

[ksfowler166]

This one is closer to home. When I was 8 my father bought me a Rossi with a 410ga and 22lr barrel. With the 410ga barrel the gun probably weighed 3 1/2lbs which did not go well with the 11/16oz loads he had. Needless to say I hated to shoot it because of the recoil so I hardly ever shot it and when I did it was not well. That was in part due to the large sized shot (#4,#6) in the loads, which I do not recommend for doves. Want to know why he didn't have me shoot Win. AA's? Well because 2 1/2" 410ga shells will not chamber/not safe I forget which in a 3" 410ga.

[smokeywolf]

Just the name WalMart makes me want to grin. Not knocking everyone who shops or works at WallyWorld. Shop there myself on occasion. If I needed a job, was more of a people person, it's honest work. I'll shake the hand of a WallMart employee while I'd spit on a multi-generational welfare breeder. Regardless of I.Q., someone who works for a paycheck earns a certain degree of my respect.

But,,, why is it when I hear the name WalMart, do I immediately think of cousins standing before a preacher and the wedding reception that follows, with buckets of fried chicken being the center piece on each table.

"People of Walmart" youtube vids are a hoot.

Also, there's a Sam's Club and a WalMart less than an hour drive away, that when you walk in you'd swear you just crossed into Mexico. Not so with many of the other stores in that same area.

smokeywolf

[mjwcaster]

Found a half box of 45 GAP rounds in a friends shooing box one day.
Asked him why he had them and he said that is what the gun shop sold him when he told them he needed 45's for his glock (21, full size 45 acp)
I told him that it was the wrong ammo, a shorter version of the 45acp he needed.
He said that they fired Ok, and he even shot the rest of the box.
The extractor on a glock is a strong one, they shoot seem to shoot anything that will fit into the chamber.

For a smart guy he does stupid things. Like the time he got a 22 mag revolver and a baggie of ammo with it, thought there were some blanks in it and was going to fire them in the house.
Luckily I was checking them out and told him that I thought they were rat shot, which they were.

The split cases of 22lr fired from that revolver didn't stop him either, he had to try it even after I told him not to.
You can't fix stupid.

Had another friend that gave me some 22 ammo because it just would not work in his 10/22.
I didn't even look at it, just tossed it in my range bag.
Just a few weeks ago I was getting ready for a range trip and pulling some 22 out.
Looked at the box my friend had given me, 22 long.
Hmm, I wonder why it wouldn't feed in his 10/22.
Still need to call him sometime and let him know.
This one is more forgivable, because most people just don't know.
Heck I didn't even look at the box at first, not even sure why I took a close look at it when I pulled it out, just good habits I guess.

[JSnover]

You all know there's no point in shooting a 1911, anyway. I suggested a .22 rf revolver to a friend as a first handgun. "Worthless. Too small."
How about a 1911? I offered to let him try mine. "I don't want no dinosaur 45."
He bought a brand new .50 Desert Eagle. Did not even fire a single round before his wife made him return it. I hoped I could have made a new shooter out of him but maybe things worked out for the best...

[smokeywolf]

Found a half box of 45 GAP rounds in a friends shooing box one day.
Asked him why he had them and he said that is what the gun shop sold him when he told them he needed 45's for his glock (21, full size 45 acp)
I told him that it was the wrong ammo, a shorter version of the 45acp he needed.
He said that they fired Ok, and he even shot the rest of the box.
The extractor on a glock is a strong one, they shoot seem to shoot anything that will fit into the chamber.

For a smart guy he does stupid things. Like the time he got a 22 mag revolver and a baggie of ammo with it, thought there were some blanks in it and was going to fire them in the house.
Luckily I was checking them out and told him that I thought they were rat shot, which they were.

The split cases of 22lr fired from that revolver didn't stop him either, he had to try it even after I told him not to.
You can't fix stupid.

Had another friend that gave me some 22 ammo because it just would not work in his 10/22.
I didn't even look at it, just tossed it in my range bag.
Just a few weeks ago I was getting ready for a range trip and pulling some 22 out.
Looked at the box my friend had given me, 22 long.
Hmm, I wonder why it wouldn't feed in his 10/22.
Still need to call him sometime and let him know.
This one is more forgivable, because most people just don't know.
Heck I didn't even look at the box at first, not even sure why I took a close look at it when I pulled it out, just good habits I guess.

"For a smart guy he does stupid things."

I have trouble buying that statement.

If someone does stupid things, especially dangerous and stupid things, how can you label them as being 'smart'?

smokeywolf

[kfarm]

Worked part time at a gun shop for a while and had a guy come in handed me his little pink gripped lorcen 32. He was acting kinda funny, said he was in a real hurry and asked if we had any ammo that would fit it. I said no we don't stock that size but I could order some, he just said that would be to late. Never saw him again.

[jonp]

Was at the Wally World looking at the ammo case when a guy walked up to get some 9mm. Chick pointed some out that was 9mm+P. He asked her what the +P was and she told him it was because that ammo was faster. Wife looked at me holding my breath about to say something when the chick started in on the difference between a 5.56 and .223. My wife grabbed my arm and pulled me away.....

[Harter66]

Smokey,
I have a friend like that he as all the book smarts ever but common sense he may as well be a door knob some days .

[jonp]

I've got a recent one. Was at Gander Mountain on Friday to pick up some things for ice fishing. Took a stroll back to the guns, and had to stand in line to take a look at an older used S&W model 36. The guy in front of me was looking at every different AR in the rack, and asks if there's anything else he can mount on the rails, besides the scope, laser, and flashlight that's already on it. When asked to clarify, he says "can I mount knives, or other guns to it". The guy behind the counter says no, not really and I'm thinking fwew, glad he's talking to someone that will keep him straight. Then (I swear, I couldn't make this up if I tried) the clerk proceeds to tell him he really needs this gun, and hands him an AR carbine in 9mm. The clerk goes on to say that its a much more powerful bullet because its a bigger round! The two of them sat there, looking down the barrels comparing the hole in the end.

I almost said something, but I just quietly went to the next clerk, bought the 36, and left. Unreal...
Not unreal. A genuine salesman who just found a mark

[jonp]

If you had paid attention in math class, instead of having dirty thoughts about the cheer leader who sat in front of you, you would have known you could find it between the 1910 ammo and the 1912 ammo. Education is a wonderful thing.
Go easy on him. They don't teach the Dewey Decimal System anymore

[3leggedturtle]

"For a smart guy he does stupid things."

I have trouble buying that statement.

If someone does stupid things, especially dangerous and stupid things, how can you label them as being 'smart'?

smokeywolf

Because some peopel are so smart or educated that they lost their common sense...

I told a clerk at a Gunshop I had a Weaver K4 and needed 1" rings for. He would not help or sell me any other rings cause he didnt have any Weaver rings. "You have to mount a Weaver scope in Weaver rings" was what he told me!......................

[Deep Six]

The other day at work one of my fellow engineers was telling me about how he had 80 lbs of sandbags in the trunk of his Mazda 3 to help with traction in the snow. When I explained that his car was front wheel drive he just looked at me blankly like "what does that have to do with anything?" This is a otherwise intelligent, successful person who is very good at his job. Some people just struggle with everyday application of knowledge.

[3leggedturtle]

I have a Contender Carbine in 45ACP and 223, have had a few people tell me they can only be chambered in auot's, so I must be mistaken or they are mis-marked.

[Minerat]

When I took the mandatory carry conceal class we had a east Indian gentleman that showed up for the shooting portion with a Ruger 454 and had no clue what he had. He said he was going to use it to protect his 7-11 type quick mart. The person who sold him the gun sold him a box of 454 full power loads and a box of 45 colt. Then he found out he needed 200 rounds so he went back and got some more 45 bullets, yes you guessed it 45 acp, but the sad thing is the mooroon at the LGS told him they would work in the 454. The trainer would not let him shoot the 454 rounds and did not want to show the class why. I talked them into letting me fire a couple and the owner decided it was too much gun. I let him use one of the .22's I brought to qualify so it ended OK for him.

[Wayne Smith]

I'm wondering what they would do with the 9mm Kurtz, the 9mm Mak, the 9MM Largo.....

[xs11jack]

I worked in a Wallyworld for a short time on 3rd shift. The sporting goods dept. was manned by who ever was available that night. Most night shift managers would try to put someone in there that had at least a passing knowledge of firearms and fishing. But some couldn't be bothered. Word got around that I knew something about guns and I would get called. But, again some never bothered. So you ended up with a lot of people with IQ's close to a dead flashlight battery were now gun experts. It is really scarey what some of them tell people. No one in their right mind should go to WM for gun advice. One last thing, a lot of the people that ended up in sporting goods knew they were over their heads but the managers wouldn't listen to them and so them just did the best they could.
Ole Jack

[reddoggm]

Stopped at Wally World tonight and saw they had some 45 acp lead round nose cartridges in the showcase. I pointed them out to the clerk and said I was surprised to see them. We got to talking and he said he had just recently bought a Rock Island 1911. When I asked if he had shot any of the lead round nose to save any money he said there was no way he was shooting them in his 1911. I asked if it was because of a leading problem. He told me leading wasn't the problem. The problem was that he had a 1911 pistol and 45 acp ammo was not designed to shoot in a 1911. Only cartridges marked 1911 would work. 45 acp would work fine in any other .45 acp pistol just not 1911's. I thought he was joking at first but it didn't take long to realize he was dead serious. :shock:

All I have to say/think is WOW!!!
DOGG!!!

[DuckHunterJon]

I worked in a Wallyworld for a short time on 3rd shift. The sporting goods dept. was manned by who ever was available that night. Most night shift managers would try to put someone in there that had at least a passing knowledge of firearms and fishing. But some couldn't be bothered. Word got around that I knew something about guns and I would get called. But, again some never bothered. So you ended up with a lot of people with IQ's close to a dead flashlight battery were now gun experts. It is really scarey what some of them tell people. No one in their right mind should go to WM for gun advice. One last thing, a lot of the people that ended up in sporting goods knew they were over their heads but the managers wouldn't listen to them and so them just did the best they could.
Ole Jack
Interesting perspective, but I'd hope they're up front about there lack of knowledge. I for one would never think down on someone, even a store clerk for saying "I don't know". It's the one that make stuff up that drive me nuts.

[MaryB]

No they are working AND receiving a welfare check


At least most of these folks are working, and not having their hand out for a welfare check.

[MaryB]

I usually have it to myself too but one day I was there and a guy maybe 10 years younger than me was having problems with a 9mm Glock. It was FTF/FTE almost every other round. He saw I was shooting 9mm and asked if I could try some of his ammo in my pistol to make sure it worked. He was shooting steel cased surplus that was pretty old but it ran fine in my HiPoint(yes I own a Hipoint, quit snickering). I asked to see his pistol and he said he just got it, his friends had all bragged up how good these glocks were at the local gun store and so cheap... it was a police trade in and was badly worn to the point I would not even try it.

I had seen him there before with his glock buddies(bumper stickers, hats, t-shirts.... that type) and he was upset the pistol was bad when I told him to take it back before it blew up in his face. He started looking at my elcheapo I use for range fun and asked what I paid. $129... blank stare... how much? $129. He said he paid $500 for the used glock and his gun dealer told him HiPoints were total junk and were useless. I am over 1500 rounds now with no issues, cleaned the barrel once. I really should strip it down one of these years and clean it! Guy went off muttering saying he was getting his money back and going to talk to the guy I buy from, last time I saw him at the range he had picked up a nice used 1911 that was like new for the same money he paid for the beat up glock.


I guess I'm just lucky or living right. The range I belong to is usually deserted during the week(I'm retired). The few that are there are well versed about guns, reloading, etc. But not casting. I have never seen anything close to the things mentioned here.

A nearby gunshop has a very good gunsmith by reputation. I don't know if he goes beyond repair, but the few things he has done for me have earned my trust.

The owner is very knowledgeable. The problem is he is unbearably overbearing at times. Catch him in a good mood and he will educate you. Another problem is his prices. The shop has some very good high end stuff but is priced even higher.

[Doggonekid]

I think the guy at WM probably works in the groceries department and thought the ACP stood for assorted cereal products. He would not recommend putting ACP in a 1911 unless you are some sort of fruit loop.

[waynem34]

Had a similar conversations about ammo marked "NATO" in 45acp . Guy standing next to me ask what the diff was. Clerk chimed in.And start to tell us all it was surplus ammo and we would probly like the other.Then I explained to him they were the same caliber and shell casing.I thought nato was just a little hotter than the other thats it. Like milspec?

[Artful]

Had a similar conversations about ammo marked "NATO" in 45acp . Guy standing next to me ask what the diff was. Clerk chimed in.And start to tell us all it was surplus ammo and we would probly like the other.Then I explained to him they were the same caliber and shell casing.I thought nato was just a little hotter than the other thats it. Like milspec?

NATO marking just means it's loaded to the same specifications that the Military of several countries (NATO members) agreed upon. It's usually only found on Full Metal Jacket ammo that has the "normal" projectile weight - example in 45 ACP it would be found on 230 grain ammo loaded to at least 830 ft/s with 21,000 PSI maximum - the NATO cross in circle would not be found on 45 ACP +P (higher pressure load of SAAMI .45 ACP +P standard is 23,000 PSI), or .45 Super ammo with 28,500 PSI maximum pressure.

Now if we talk about 9x19mm NATO spec converts to 115 grain FMJ at 1300 FPS maximum pressure 35,001 psi.
By comparison, Winchester USA 9mm 115 grain is loaded to achieve 1190 fps,
Remington's version makes 1135 FPS.
Sellier & Bellot 115 gr. FMJ goes 1279 FPS, much closer to NATO spec.

The SAAMI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAAMI) maximum pressure limit for the 9×19 mm Parabellum +P (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpressure_ammunition#Commercially_available_.2B P_cartridges) is set at 38,500 psi pressure,
which will give 115 grain a velocity of 1350 fps.

9x19 +P+ isn't offically recognized by SAAMI but examples tested reached over 41,000 PSI pressure!
Not many handguns were approved for such ammo by the makers. (look up 7N21 or 7H21 or Hirtenberger +P+ subgun ammo L7A1)

[VintageRifle]

Local Walmart lady tried to sell me 7.62x51 because it was brass cased and could be reloaded. Unlike the tula 7.62x39 I had asked for because of the steel case.

Another store has a manager that is a gun collector and reloader. He is also a friend. The other employees can really learn from him.

[btroj]

Why is anyone suprised?
Are the kids at the supermarket former chefs?
The kids at the drug store pharmacists?
The kids at the car wash NASCAR drivers?

Do you ask a carpenter to rebuild your saw?

These people have a job. This doesn't make it their passion. They are working at a mass merchandiser and I can assure you they know little of the merchandise. Cops aren't gun experts either.

If anyone goes to the gun counter at Walmart and expects to find a person who is a gun nut and rally experienced then I ask this- which side of the counter has the fool?

[alamogunr]

The problem as I see it, the person on the customer side of the counter, as several have pointed out, is as ignorant as the clerk. WM will stop selling ammunition and firearms when they lose a lawsuit because someone was killed or maimed because their clerk gave out bad information.

[pworley1]

I guess I am lucky to have survived all the 452374's that have gone through mine.

[rondog]

And we wonder how we end up with such idiots in Washington.....

[Deadpool]

Sales people are trained to stare you in the eye and lie to your face while appearing confident. Some of them begin to believe their own falsehoods.

I can't watch Morgan Freeman's "Through The Wormhole" anymore because he has that lying eye like he's trying to portray a quantum physicist.

[btroj]

Sales people are trained to stare you in the eye and lie to your face while appearing confident. Some of them begin to believe their own falsehoods.

I can't watch Morgan Freeman's "Through The Wormhole" anymore because he has that lying eye like he's trying to portray a quantum physicist.

You really think a guy who started at minimum wage gets enough training to lie like that?

They aren't teamed to lie. They aren't traines to be experts, or even knowledgable on the goods. They are trained to put stuff on shelves, show people where stuff is, and ring stuff up.

[Deadpool]

You really think a guy who started at minimum wage gets enough training to lie like that?

He's got to step on somebody to earn that Ferrari and mansion someday in his delusions of grandeur.

[oldred]

I think maybe this has gotten side-tracked a bit about the WM employees, I too was (am) guilty of having a bit of fun at their expense but I think it started with examples of comical exchanges and not that the typical employee at WM is dumb. Just looking back at all these examples and the thing is these are not a "spit-in-the-ocean" for covering all that's going on, that many people now buying ammo for THEIR guns that THEY intend to handle and shoot and they don't even know what ammo fits????? Does anyone else see the REAL problem developing here?

[merlin101]

I've got 2 WM near me , at one the ammo counter (no guns) is manned by the same people that work the craft department. If in a jam they call on of the tire changers over for advice. I don't even bother going there anymore.
At the other store there is one employee that came right out and said he knew nothing about guns but would like to learn, Guess who's going to the range with me when the weather breaks?

[Harter66]

Deadpool you've confused Joe Wallie with a car guy. I wouldn't trust a commission sales associate half as far as I can spit with a mouth full of marbles. The little 5 nothin' with a twang might trip me up but usually if I'm actually there to buy odds are good I know almost as much as trained staff about what I'm looking for as they do. I try to keep impulse buys under 30 bucks unless I've really looked hard at them or its an item that is scarce,like pounce now or look for another 6 months.

[Love Life]

Anybody who hasn't done their due diligence prior to hitting the gun counter of anywhere is the fool. Me, personally, I don't want the person running the counter to talk to me much unless he/she is lowering the price. I've done the research and go in prepared for my purchase.

Concerning Wally world employees, as has been pointed out, they are not there to be experts on anything. They are un-skilled labor.

[Duckiller]

Walmart no longer sells guns in California! Too many of their employees could not follow State and Federal regulations on selling guns. Among other things they didn't understand that the 10 day waiting period applied to EVERYONE including your next door neighbour and your cousin. They still sell ammo. Not sure in how many other states Walmart had to give up their FFL . When you pay minimum wages you get minimual employees.

[jonp]

I usually have it to myself too but one day I was there and a guy maybe 10 years younger than me was having problems with a 9mm Glock. It was FTF/FTE almost every other round. He saw I was shooting 9mm and asked if I could try some of his ammo in my pistol to make sure it worked. He was shooting steel cased surplus that was pretty old but it ran fine in my HiPoint(yes I own a Hipoint, quit snickering). I asked to see his pistol and he said he just got it, his friends had all bragged up how good these glocks were at the local gun store and so cheap... it was a police trade in and was badly worn to the point I would not even try it.

I had seen him there before with his glock buddies(bumper stickers, hats, t-shirts.... that type) and he was upset the pistol was bad when I told him to take it back before it blew up in his face. He started looking at my elcheapo I use for range fun and asked what I paid. $129... blank stare... how much? $129. He said he paid $500 for the used glock and his gun dealer told him HiPoints were total junk and were useless. I am over 1500 rounds now with no issues, cleaned the barrel once. I really should strip it down one of these years and clean it! Guy went off muttering saying he was getting his money back and going to talk to the guy I buy from, last time I saw him at the range he had picked up a nice used 1911 that was like new for the same money he paid for the beat up glock.

Good deal, Mary. I have a couple of Hi Points and they shoot every type of ammo I put through them. Steel case, HP, Cast dosn't matter to them. Ugly but the grip is superb and they go bang everytime. Best time for $125 you can have!

BTW: at my last job one of the kid in the shops friends knew everything about anything in firearms. Glocks were the thing and all other handguns were just junk. I asked our guy what type of Glock the kid had and he said he didn't have one but was saving up to buy one.

I tried to steer the kid in the shop in the right direction when he expressed an interest in firearms. I managed to talk him out of a 50AE for his first handgun but could not dissuade him from getting a full sized 9mm for carry. He then went for an ultra compact 45ACP which I tried to tell him was a little much because of the grip size unless he had some experience. He scoffed at my mention of my 45Colt saying it was way less gun than a 357Mag and was useless in a fight. I brought it to work one day and let him try a couple of 260gr Cast over 19gr of 2400. He gained a new respect for "those old, obsolete cowboy guns"

[jonp]

I've got 2 WM near me , at one the ammo counter (no guns) is manned by the same people that work the craft department. If in a jam they call on of the tire changers over for advice. I don't even bother going there anymore.
At the other store there is one employee that came right out and said he knew nothing about guns but would like to learn, Guess who's going to the range with me when the weather breaks?

Why? You should know what you want in ammo or a firearm when you go into a box store and this go's for Dicks (which I won't shop at anymore) Gander Mt or Walmart. If you don't know what you are doing then go to a LGS and ask but most importantly educate yourself first and take a firearms course from a NRA Certified Instructor.
I have no problem shopping for ammo at WalMart or buying a gun from them. I would never rely on someone there for advice on what I am buying. It's really not their job and your expecting way too much out of them if you do.

[btroj]

Even if go to a LGS you should know most of what you need to know. We have a very large gun store in town but they are largely shotgun shooters. I certainly wouldn't ask about cast bullets, they sell no casting stuff anymore.

The onus is on the shooter to educate themself. Depending upon others to educate is for fools.

[Cmm_3940]

Even if go to a LGS you should know most of what you need to know. We have a very large gun store in town but they are largely shotgun shooters. I certainly wouldn't ask about cast bullets, they sell no casting stuff anymore.

The onus is on the shooter to educate themself. Depending upon others to educate is for fools.

Cast bullets! Those things will ruin your gun, kill your dog, and steal your wife, you know. The guy at the gun store said so! :roll:

[Blacksmith]

Just remember there are a lot of new shooters out there. Between increased interest because of video games and heightened worries about home protection and potential gun bans many people with no practical experience are now buying guns. It is up to the knowledgeable gun owners out there to reach out and help them learn the right way. It is in our own best interest to prevent accidents with the resulting bad press that the anti's will exploit. In addition every new satisfied happy gun owner is a new recruit to help fight the anti's.

Now for a dumb gun story. At the range I found some .410 shells that had the brass head split. On closer examination you could see a ring around the plastic case about 1/2" from the end. Obvious some one had been shooting 3" shells in a 2 1/2" chamber, anyone care to guess what pressure it took to force the shot load and wads out through that restriction? Thank goodness modern firearms are built with a safety factor.

I teach basic marksmanship and coach the junior rifle team. So I now use those in my cartridge collection to help explain the problems of mismatched ammo along with a 9mm shot in a 10mm. If anyone has other examples to donate to a good cause PM me.

[b money]

I was just in one of the local sporting goods stores looking for a donor remington 700 to build a custom. I knew for a fact the kid behind the counter was filling in for the normal people, but I still asked him if they had any short actions/308, 243, 7-08 ect(as I couldn't tell from where I was standing) and he opened the case looked around, presumably for a tag that denoted short action or numbers and after not finding one, he looked at me and said "I honestly don't know, would you like to look at it?" I said yes. As I took it I said I'd show him how to tell what the caliber is. After showing him the barrel stamp and the tag on the rifle he said "hmm ok thanks". Now I did all that because the kid honestly looked like he had never shot a gun in his life nor did he seem like the type of person that would. But he was being honest and doing the best he could with what he had been taught. When I showed him the caliber markings he did not get offended, or upset he simply realized that there is more that he could learn that may prove valuable working in a sporting goods store. Speaking from personal experience on both shopping and working ends of the retail industry not all kids/minimum wage workers are as careless and thoughtless as they are made out to be. Although sadly the vast majority of them are, every so often you may run into someone that is willing to learn and ask questions.

[Artful]

Now for a dumb gun story. At the range I found some .410 shells that had the brass head split. On closer examination you could see a ring around the plastic case about 1/2" from the end. Obvious some one had been shooting 3" shells in a 2 1/2" chamber, anyone care to guess what pressure it took to force the shot load and wads out through that restriction? Thank goodness modern firearms are built with a safety factor.

I have huge respect for .410 single shots. After seeing these Video's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwX9mJvss1k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-lyk1WyyJ4&list=PLLaA_xB6_Oc0K-R0_S-JTgTlY62UXJV6y&index=7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwKydDPY8Xo&index=2&list=PLLaA_xB6_Oc0K-R0_S-JTgTlY62UXJV6y

[Plate plinker]

B money nice work. I would add everybody starts out not knowing anything hence the beginning of employment at Walmart.

[Skunk1]

It's been 5 yrs since I've been in a Wally world, drive right by one every day (twice a day) to work. The last time I was in there the older gentlemen working the counter (had worked there as long as I had been shopping there) telling a customer the the 180grs on the box was the amount of powder in the cartridge. I walked away and never looked back. Everyone at work thinks I'm nuts for not shopping there but I have no regrets.

[btroj]

It isn't just Walmart or gunshops.
My freshman year in college I lived next to two guys who had just finished Army Giard basic. One of them assured me that no, the M60 was not a 308 Win, it fired a 60 cal round, hence the M60 designation. He also told me 5.56 ball ammo was called ball ammo because under the copper jacket was 3 little lead balls.

Be awful careful in assuming anyone who handles, owns, or sells firearms has even a remote clue about anything. I own a set of wrenches but a master mechanic I am not. I own a circular saw but I don't build houses.

[Love Life]

It isn't just Walmart or gunshops.
My freshman year in college I lived next to two guys who had just finished Army Giard basic. One of them assured me that no, the M60 was not a 308 Win, it fired a 60 cal round, hence the M60 designation. He also told me 5.56 ball ammo was called ball ammo because under the copper jacket was 3 little lead balls.

Be awful careful in assuming anyone who handles, owns, or sells firearms has even a remote clue about anything. I own a set of wrenches but a master mechanic I am not. I own a circular saw but I don't build houses.

This is the gospel truth as handed down from upon high. Some of the most firearm, shooting, and safety ignorant people I have met are gun owners an not just young ones.

I cringe every year when hunting season rolls around and all the experts come out.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I was shooting with my good buddy, who is very knowledgable, and a few of his buddies...not so knowledgable. I was shooting my 1911 using 185 grain jacketed reloads and one of the other guys was shooting 230 grain factory loads. Basic stuff. He was very impressed with his new 1911 and was talking about how fast his bullets were being fired) I then told him that if he wanted to bump up the velocity a bit he could shoot a lighter bullet. I told him I was shooting 185 grain bullets, which were coming out a bit faster than his 230 grain bullets. He looked soooo confused and asked me how that was. He then said that his rounds had 230 grains of powder and mine only had 185 grains.

[btroj]

Tell him it is because he is using a ball powder, yours is a short stick. This means each of your grains is bigger, hence more speed. That will confuse him for a while.

[mold maker]

It seams as if Wally World Sporting Goods clerks are a mater of "Woo them with knowledge, or Dazzle them with BS".
If you go for ammo or guns, do your research beforehand. If you don't know what you want, and they don't know what you need, the outcome can't be good.

[gray wolf]

Cast bullets! Those things will ruin your gun, kill your dog, and steal your wife, you know. The guy at the gun store said so! :roll:
And if you turn your head they will take your Beer.

[NavyVet1959]

On the .380Auto topic: I encountered a truck driver with some type of Soviet era Makarov pistol and noticed that he had .380 cartridges in the magazine. Now a lot of Makarov's are rebarreled in .380 but this one clearly had the original 9x18 barrel. I politely attempted to tell him that it wasn't chambered in .380 but he would have nothing to do with my warning. He said it cycled fine and therefore it was "A 380".

Depending upon the how well the extractor holds the round, it's quite possible that would work without anything bad happening. Just like when firing .40SW rounds out of a 10mm. It works very well with the extractor on a Glock and I have even tried it with my RIA 10mm and it seems to also work (but I have not done it many times, so I don't know how well it works over a large number of rounds). OK, technically, I'm using .40SW brass loaded to 10mm OAL, but if it wasn't for the extractor in the RIA, the round would fall too far down the barrel due to the length of the throat in that chamber.

[NavyVet1959]

Walmart no longer sells guns in California! Too many of their employees could not follow State and Federal regulations on selling guns. Among other things they didn't understand that the 10 day waiting period applied to EVERYONE including your next door neighbour and your cousin. They still sell ammo.

I was in Hawaii last year and brought one of my 1911s with me to do some shooting. Just for curiosity's sake, I stopped in a Wal-Mart in Honolulu to see what different items they sold vs what the local one sells. One particular item that I noticed that they sold that I have not seen in any other Wal-Mart that I have visited was surfboards. While in the sporting goods department, I decided to check to see if just perhaps they might have .22 ammo, so I asked the sales clerk where the ammo was. I received a really strange look and then she said that they don't sell ammo there.

[2wheelDuke]

Makes one wonder how the gangbangers come up with the right ammo for the stolen guns they use. Suprised we don't here more about them blowing themselves up..............

They don't always. I remember recovering a gun in the area where there was a foot chase the night before. The night shift guys that chased the gang banger saw a gun, but the guy didn't have it when he got caught, and they couldn't find it. It was a S&W chambered in .22mag. It was full of .22lr and each had a light strike. That could've been a bad night if the bad guy had the proper ammo.

[dancingbear41]

Cast bullets! Those things will ruin your gun, kill your dog, and steal your wife, you know. The guy at the gun store said so! :roll:

They make you run with scissors too!

[oldred]

Tell him it is because he is using a ball powder, yours is a short stick. This means each of your grains is bigger, hence more speed. That will confuse him for a while.


Lol, I actually heard that one used on a guy one night at work! This clueless expert was explaining to us that smokeless powder burns at many times the rate of black powder and since it is so much faster burning that's the reason smokeless can't be used in a muzzleloader, he was insisting that smokeless will always burn faster than BP under any condition. My buddy then set in on him explaining why ball powder used more "grains" than stick powder in the case, thus a 185 (I don't remember the exact example) grain charge was 185 of these little balls and the "expert" agreed with him!!!! :-P Of course my buddy was just pulling his leg and he just about choked when the guy believed it!

I have also heard that one about the ball ammo but in that case the guy was telling us there was "a ball" loaded in the case and the pointy shell was just capped over it so that it would feed properly, seems as if only balls are allowed to be used by NATO member armies as spelled out by the Geneva convention! Wow, we can learn soooo much from these guys!

[sdcitizen]

Hey ease up a bit on the not-so-informed crowd. Way back when I bought my first kimber, I bought a couple boxes of 45 GAP ammo for them, had never heard of the stuff before. A friend at the range informed me it was just a bit shorter than normal ACP stuff, meant for glocks. It still shot fine, I threw away the brass though, at the time I was saving up stuff for reloading.

[Dale in Louisiana]

It isn't just Walmart or gunshops.
My freshman year in college I lived next to two guys who had just finished Army Giard basic. One of them assured me that no, the M60 was not a 308 Win, it fired a 60 cal round, hence the M60 designation. He also told me 5.56 ball ammo was called ball ammo because under the copper jacket was 3 little lead balls.

I learned some truly amazing things when I was an army drill sergeant at Fort Polk, 1970-72. Other than stripping and cleaning, weapons training (marksmanship) was done by "Committee Group" instructors assigned to the rifle ranges. All we had to do was herd trainees into the bleachers, let them sit through "expert" instruction, then keep them from shooting themselves and others on the firing line.

Observing one of those 'experts' I learned that the righthand twist of rifling caused the bullet to leave the barrel, go up a ways, then back down, that the ammo we shot was 'training' ammo and that the REAL stuff was MUCH more powerful.

I can't remember the rest. WalMart does not come close to cornering the market on idiots.

dale in Louisiana

[M-Tecs]

Hey ease up a bit on the not-so-informed crowd.

I don't think anyone here has an issue with the not-so-informed crowd. The issue is with the idiots that think they know what they are talking about and the BS they spread. Nothing wrong with admitting I don't know or I am not sure so I have to check references to get the correct information.

[Artful]

Ah, military instruction - I remember when my best friends older bother came back from the SE Asian war games and informed us the M16 shot little buzz saws - they tumbled thru the air and could tear a limb from a VC. Had to be true he was told it by his Sargent.

[smokeywolf]

We did not have this volume of misinformation and general BS, 100 or even 50 years ago. Why, because firearms were not a forbidden or politically incorrect topic and many, if not most people learned about firearms and ammo as children from their fathers; knowledge was passed down. Knowledge passed on from father to son or daughter is far more likely to be accurate and dependable than that acquired from a stranger, who is often more interested in appearing to be an expert than actually becoming one.
Much of the ignorance displayed and disseminated by those who were not raised with firearms as a normal part of their upbringing is attributable to the efforts by liberals to make firearms and hunting a politically incorrect and taboo subject.

smokeywolf

[NavyVet1959]

Ah, military instruction - I remember when my best friends older bother came back from the SE Asian war games and informed us the M16 shot little buzz saws - they tumbled thru the air and could tear a limb from a VC. Had to be true he was told it by his Sargent.

I've never heard that they would tumble in the air, but it was said back then that they would tumble upon entry and might exit a good distance away from the entry wound. I seem to remember them saying that it was something about the rifling rate been so slow that the bullet was on the edge of instability and as such, it would tumble as soon as it hit something. Now, the M16 of that time had a longer barrel and thus higher velocity than the M4s and AR15s that we see today, so perhaps the bullet could have a different effect upon a flesh target. I've never hunted with a .223 / 5.56 round, so I have no experience on what it does on game.

[Artful]

I've never heard that they would tumble in the air, but it was said back then that they would tumble upon entry and might exit a good distance away from the entry wound. I seem to remember them saying that it was something about the rifling rate been so slow that the bullet was on the edge of instability and as such, it would tumble as soon as it hit something. Now, the M16 of that time had a longer barrel and thus higher velocity than the M4s and AR15s that we see today, so perhaps the bullet could have a different effect upon a flesh target. I've never hunted with a .223 / 5.56 round, so I have no experience on what it does on game.

Yeah, Bobby came back they had taken his M-14 and given him M-16 and told him it was a super weapon. :roll: tear off limbs - never needed cleaning etc. I think he found out different when he went back to finish his time in country. He never had the urge to buy an AR15 when he got back. As far as game with 223 cartridge I only use SP on mine and nothing larger than a 'yote and it will seriously mess up a critter.

[Harter66]

The deal with impact tumbling is a product of bullet shape. At least that is what I observed. I read several articles about bullet design, but can't site source ,it was indicated that the ogive shape caused the effect while providing a stable flight through a wide velocity window . The original M16 was in fact right at its stability threshold "it didn't matter because the rifle was intended to shred jungle not make 1 for 1 hits".

[loaded303]

As a boy I was told by a Medic that the 7.62 or m16 tumbled out of the barrel and was able to run all the way up your leg into your gut.
I don't believe it now but is there a round that naturally tumbles? I could google it...lol

[Dale in Louisiana]

As a boy I was told by a Medic that the 7.62 or m16 tumbled out of the barrel and was able to run all the way up your leg into your gut.
I don't believe it now but is there a round that naturally tumbles? I could google it...lol

.303 British Mark VII ammo had projectiles with either an aluminum or plastic pellet in the nose behind the jacket. This shifted the center of gravity to the rear, making it go unstable upon contact, creating bigger wound channels. Since the Brits never claimed this was the intent of the design ("Honestly, guys, it's just to make the bullet lighter!") so they kept using it. for decades.

dale in Louisiana

[Love Life]

An interesting read: http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2014/5/21/testing-the-army-s-m855a1-standard-ball-cartridge/

[btroj]

Me thinks someone is pulling my leg

[Love Life]

The original M-16 bullet was absolutely designed to tumble in flight. I read it on the internet.

[M-Tecs]

Me thinks someone is pulling my leg

Me KNOWS someone is pulling my leg :bigsmyl2:

When I went through basic one of the TI's claimed the 5.56 didn't get up to full velocity until about 250 yards.

[Rufus Krile]

The early 16's had 1 in 12 twist rate... with the 55gr bullet that left 'em just a bit unstable. Whether that was ol' Gene's intent or by military design is left up to us... but the AK round also has a tendency to yaw and go a$$ forward in ballistic gelatin. They were both treated as bullet hoses in country leaving the precision work to M21's and serious bolt guns on our side and tricked up Mosins with the home team.

[M-Tecs]

The first M16's used a 1 in 14 twist. That was the Model 601. http://www.retroblackrifle.com/

The Model 602 incoporated the 1 in 12 twist.

The 1 in 7 twisted started in 1982 or 1983 with the M16A2 for the M855 62 grain steel penetrator tip.

[Pinsnscrews]

Btw, just curious how many of you knew about the Win 1911 .45acp ammo from Winchester ;-)

of course. It REALLY throws the guys at Walmart when I am there with my 1911...

"Hey, we have some .45acp for that 1911 of yours"

there are a couple of young guys at the one closest to the house who actually are gun enthusiasts. They got a good laugh the first time I had my 1911 with me in the store. i was picking up targets. They got a box of Remington UMC 10mm in by mistake and pulled it aside til either of them saw me. Made me appreciate their customer service more.

[oldred]

I think I know where this thing about the M16 and tumbling bullets comes from, I even asked here a couple of years ago if anyone else had seen this bit no luck. I have since ran into a couple of others who did indeed know about it but still I can't find any of the details. Anyway back in the middle 60's when I was in highschool I distinctly remember reading in a sports/shooting magazine (in the school library of all places, try that today!!!!) about the M16 being a smooth bore so as to allow the bullet to tumble thereby maximizing the damage from the small round. For years afterward I had the false belief that the M16 was a smoothbore, I remember thinking even back then that while it might do more damage wouldn't it be hard to hit anything with it? Several years later on talking with a military arms collector in Atlanta I learned that I had probably misunderstood the article and that a smoothbore M16 was never fielded BUT several hundred were actually built and tested by the army. This was about 66' or 67' and about the time I was reading that was when the testing was going on, I can just imagine the dismal accuracy of such a round. He added that it was also supposed to fire a bullet with a more rounded nose but I didn't remeber reading anything about that, I was absolutely SURE I had read about the smoothbore M16s but it became somewhat of a mystery for years after learning that the military never used such a thing but at least now I know there was such a rifle built and obviously that's where this legend of the M16 tumbling bullet comes from!

[shdwlkr]

I remember when we were being taught how great the M-16 was and that 55 grain bullet was more powerful than the m-14 .308 150 grain round was. Me being stupid asked why we were using woodchuck ammo on people? Got in a lot of trouble for that one. Also called my M-16 my matty matel special, got a lot of pushups for that until one day an officer asked me why I called my m-16 that and I showed him right there in the butt of the rifle was the matel toy corporation stamp, no more pushups.
The m-16's we got were the ones shipped back from Vietnam every once in a while one would fail and a grunt would get hurt real bad or killed because of this re-cycled stuff. We had m-16a1's, m-16a2,s I swore I would never have one and that lasted for almost 40 years then I found one with a 1in 7 twist and could shoot much heavier bullets, ended up getting two just cause. Then went and got one of the 22lr versions and just plain love shooting that little stuff.
I have in my plans to also acquire two M1A's just cause again to play with, hard to find the ammo for it right now as I will only shoot match grade 168 grain hp's through either one most likely. One will remain open sighted the other gets a scope and if I like it well enough so will the first. As I age I use all the help I can to keep enjoying what I like to do and that is hit paper, cans, spoiled fruit, suckers, etc. all the dangerous stuff that one encounters in life. You have to be prepared for a raid of spoiled fruit or a box of suckers sneaking into your place.

[M-Tecs]

I have heard the Mattel thing since the mid 70's. Snopes claims false http://www.snopes.com/military/m16.asp

Posts like these have lots of people stating they have seen Mattel Parts.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63042

http://m14forum.com/bill-ricca/23208-mattel-m-16s.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/472520_.html

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-650250.html

The question I have is what happen to these parts? I have seen 601 green hardware (stock, pistol grip & handguard) sell for over $1,200 on Gunbroker. I would think Mattel marked parts would also sell equally as well.

The market for original parts for Retro builds is very good.

[JSnover]

The M-16 was never made by Mattel.

[oldred]

As many times as it's been debunked I can't believe people are still telling that Mattel story! Some folks claim to have seen such a thing but as of yet NO ONE has been able to come up with a single example of any M16 part with anything even remotely related to the toy maker, not one single thing! After all this time it has been shown again and again that old story is pure USDA certified BS! There have been several suggestions as to where the myth stated, some think it's because the "plastic" guns were radically new when first introduced and reminded people of toys and another popular thought was a take off of the Mattel toy commercials of the day, if a M16 malfunctioned the joke was "you can tell it's Mattel", the well known line from the popular commercial. In any case there's little doubt that Mattel never made the rifle or parts for it, there is a world of difference in the soft injection mold plastics used in the toys vs the high strength composites used in real rifles, different materials and completely different manufacturing methods that would have required different machinery or even different factories that those utilized by toy companies. I have little doubt that Colt subcontracted the composite/plastic parts but it would have done so to a company that builds industrial type composites not a company that molds soft plastic materials using a totally different process than what would be required.

[Artful]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/mwrdyna/M16mattelM16.jpg
:holysheep - it's a photoshop
http://squathole.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/mattel-m16-marauder.jpg
M16 I remember Armalite, Colt, General Motors division Hydradynamic's?
The M16A2-A4 has been made by the following companies: 1.) Colt 2.) FN 3.) a very limited run by Balimoy Manufacturing for a USAF contract in FL. 4.) Knight's Armament Co for SF and NSW The M4 carbine( 723,727,XM4, M4, and M4a1) have only been made by: 1.) Colt---current sole source contract 2.) Bushmaster in 1988 for 350 units for SF and NSW. Martin Marietta, SACO, FN and CAPCO have all had spare parts contracts, but other than FN none have produced lowers. These contracts were for M16A1 uppers and parts for NG units. And in the Case of CAPCO the M16A2 upgrade for USAF units.

[oldred]

I have heard the Mattel thing since the mid 70's. Snopes claims false http://www.snopes.com/military/m16.asp

Posts like these have lots of people stating they have seen Mattel Parts.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63042

http://m14forum.com/bill-ricca/23208-mattel-m-16s.html

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/472520_.html

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-650250.html

The question I have is what happen to these parts? I have seen 601 green hardware (stock, pistol grip & handguard) sell for over $1,200 on Gunbroker. I would think Mattel marked parts would also sell equally as well.

The market for original parts for Retro builds is very good.

I just browsed a few posts on a couple of the links you provided and the only guy who seemed to think there might be some truth to this (I didn't read anywhere near all the posts) used that same tired old reasoning that when Colt won the contract and needed to mass-build these things they turned to the most logical place to have the plastic parts manufactured, the toy industry. However, to repeat, the toy industry is NOT the "logical" place to turn for these parts because they are the wrong kind of material and manufactured using a different method. The thinking is that the M16 used "plastic" parts and the toy industry makes plastic guns right? The problem is there is no such material known as "plastic", the word plastic is of course an adjective that describes, in this case, a moldable material thus any material that is formable or moldable into other shapes is "plastic" but the word has become so common as to be used to generically name a great many different materials that we see and use everyday. The point being the composite tough hard materials used in M16/AR15 parts is a far cry from the soft injection molded materials used for making these toy guns, even the manufacturing process is so different it's actually ILLOGICAL rather than logical to turn to the toy industry for making military quality parts using strong industrial materials and methods as opposed to simple soft cheap materials and methods used to make toys!

[oldred]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f168/mwrdyna/M16mattelM16.jpg
:holysheep - it's a photoshop

M16 I remember Armalite, Colt, General Motors division Hydradynamic's?
The M16A2-A4 has been made by the following companies: 1.) Colt 2.) FN 3.) a very limited run by Balimoy Manufacturing for a USAF contract in FL. 4.) Knight's Armament Co for SF and NSW The M4 carbine( 723,727,XM4, M4, and M4a1) have only been made by: 1.) Colt---current sole source contract 2.) Bushmaster in 1988 for 350 units for SF and NSW. Martin Marietta, SACO, FN and CAPCO have all had spare parts contracts, but other than FN none have produced lowers. These contracts were for M16A1 uppers and parts for NG units. And in the Case of CAPCO the M16A2 upgrade for USAF units.


Let's not forget the KFC version built by Col. Sanders! :mrgreen:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p203/CHRIS65-IL/kfc-m16a1-crispy.jpg

[Deadpool]

As a boy I was told by a Medic that the 7.62 or m16 tumbled out of the barrel and was able to run all the way up your leg into your gut.
I don't believe it now but is there a round that naturally tumbles? I could google it...lol

The AK-47 bore is loose so the round "tumbles" as it rotates, not end over end or anything like that, but it keyholes at most distances. This is for "reliability over accuracy." Technically this is 7.62.. But an M14 doesn't do that. The 5.56 tumbles on impact, as it's designed, so that it breaks in half for cavitation damage... But this only happens at extreme velocities (>2600fps or so?). At 600 yards they don't cavitate like that, but zip through.

lol, a KFC M16A1.

[oldred]

Lol, I just about busted a gut when I saw that KFC M16!

I wish I could claim that pic but the truth is I swiped it from another site.

[Multigunner]

Its not unlikely that many of the early production barrels ended up smoothbore after a few too many mag dumps at the excessively high rate of fire caused by the switch to ball powder rather than the IMR powder the 5.56 was designed to use.

I've seen bullets from a messed up revolver barrel spin sideways on leaving the muzzle, scrubbing off so much velocity you could watch the bullet in flight.
In an early test of maxim guns using cordite the early non hardened bores burnt out so quickly that the gun keep firing but bullets just stacked up in a neat pile a few yards in front of the gun. Maxim wrote about this himself so thats no urban legend.

Many non firearms companies made parts or complete firearms during WW2. Singer made 1911 pistols as did Remington Rand and many MkIII Sten Guns were manufactured by a British toy company.
A odd story about pistols made by a refrigerator company was traced to that company donating cardboard they had ordered for shipping boxes to be made into shipping cartons for 1911 pistols, the company logo still visible on the cardboard.


The AK-47 bore is loose so the round "tumbles"
Its not due to a loose bore. Some 7.62X39 ammo uses a bullet similar to the 5.45 Soviet "poison bullet". The bullet has a nose cavity with the jacket enclosing an empty space that shifts the center of gravity to the rear. This allows the same sort of tumbling effect in flesh as the .303 MkVII bullet which has a light weight nose filler.


A bullet doesn't have to tumble while in flight to tumble inside the body of the victim.

Someone once claimed that it was impossible for a bulet to turn end over end in the body because it passed through too fast.
I then asked him how fast a bullet was moving if it lodged in the spine or disintegrated before reaching the other side.
A bullet can scrub off all its velocity in flesh transfering that energy to the flesh and bone of the victim.

[Artful]

http://www.aacblog.com/wp-content/uploads/dewalt-16batt-600x450.jpg
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm285/SDV10/Glock-Dewalt-Drilled-Perfection-1.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/SDV10/media/Glock-Dewalt-Drilled-Perfection-1.jpg.html)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h261/globemaster_oly/johnDeereGreen.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/globemaster_oly/media/johnDeereGreen.jpg.html)
http://www.armoryblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/John-Deere-FN-Pistol.jpg
http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu275/jbritt67/milwaukee_gun_cool_050906.jpg (http://s655.photobucket.com/user/jbritt67/media/milwaukee_gun_cool_050906.jpg.html)

[Deadpool]

Its not due to a loose bore.

Those bores are intentionally larger so it can shoot with sand and dirt down in there. AK's notoriously shoot unstable bullets, and this is why.

[MaryB]

I know where a real John Deere green AR is...

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/466443000/466443080/pix760157915.jpg

[Harter66]

Hell I've seen torpedoes marked General Mills

[oldred]

Many non firearms companies made parts or complete firearms during WW2. Singer made 1911 pistols as did Remington Rand and many MkIII Sten Guns were manufactured by a British toy company.
A odd story about pistols made by a refrigerator company was traced to that company donating cardboard they had ordered for shipping boxes to be made into shipping cartons for 1911 pistols, the company logo still visible on the cardboard.

I thought I had already mentioned the WWII arms production but looking at my last post apparently I only intended to since it's not there, dang this gitin old is scary!!!! :shock:

And of course at the same time with the country being on a war footing, unlike during the Vietnam era, auto plants made fighter planes and bombers and nearly every little factory in the country was making gun, tank, airplane, ship, etc parts or some other war related material. Those guns were marked with the makers names and examples can normally be easily found, some are in fact rather common and most command a decent markup to collectors. This is in stark contrast to the Mattel/M16 myth where not a single real example can be found anywhere despite the desirability of such and the many challenges to proponents of the myth to produce this proof go unanswered, they can't because it's simply not there. The country during the Vietnam period was not on an emergency production footing that would utilize all industry and besides the toy companies are not suited to manufacturing industrial composites anyway such as those used in the manufacturing of the M16 assault rifle, the "plastic" in M16s obviously is not the cheap injection molded soft plastics used in toys.

I hadn't heard that one about the refrigerator company, that's a good one and an interesting "fun fact", it shouldn't be surprising however since almost every Mom&Pop operation in the country was producing something for the war effort no matter how small it might have been.

[JSnover]

Those bores are intentionally larger so it can shoot with sand and dirt down in there. AK's notoriously shoot unstable bullets, and this is why.
There has to be at least one member who has slugged an AK bore... Can we get some dimensions? Anyone??

[Harter66]

I had an SK s 305x316 but I've read of plenty that were 305x312.

[Deadpool]

The SKS was never intended to be the ultra reliable assault carbine the AK was designed for.

[JSnover]

I think the action had a lot more to do with AK reliability than the bore. It is slightly larger but so is the bullet. What were the actual specs for the barrel and the projectile?

[bgokk]

There has to be at least one member who has slugged an AK bore... Can we get some dimensions? Anyone??
Slugged about 15 minutes ago. Romanian SR1. .3115"129356129357

[Deadpool]

The SAR-1 is an accurate variant, not a defacto standard clone.

[Dale in Louisiana]

I had a couple of M3A1 SMG's on my various tanks over the years. I remember some were stamped "Guide Lamp". Had an Browning M-2HBTT stamped "A-C Spark Plug". We all know about M-1 carbines from Rockola, IBM and National Postal Meter and many others.

Dale in Louisiana

[Houndog]

There has to be at least one member who has slugged an AK bore... Can we get some dimensions? Anyone??

I've slugged several that ran in the .312-.315 range. Keep in mind AK's are built in several different countries and some of them have very poor quality control!

[TCLouis]

WM is not the only source of ignorance personified.

Some "Gun Stores' have the same level of knowledge behind the counter.

I have a collection of rounds picked up on the range that were "fireformed.

Not much of a neck when one fires 300 Win Mag in a Weatherby, but all 20 went bang without incident apparently.