375 Winchester from 30/30

[Blanco]

A good friend has a 375 and would like to get some more plinking ammo for a reasonable price.
After a bit of searching I see that 375 ammo comes at a premium.
My buddy is not against making a reduced load from 30/30 brass.
As I have never attempted this what would be involved.... Annealing? reforming ? load suggestions?
Any help and or sources would be appreciated.

[GRUMPA]

I have this posted in a thread, I tried it and this is what I found out.

"Well after spending 2 days working on the 375Win and the 375Supermag I found more than a few ways NOT to make them from 30-30 brass. The length of the 375Win case is 2.020-.020 and when forming those from a 30-30 case that's already at 2.020 the case shrinks to 1.980 which of course is to short for my tastes. Everything else is fine after forming but those aren't something I could stand up and be proud of. So needless to say I wont be doing those."

[fryboy]

depends ... new brass no annealing needed , i wouldnt suggest it with very used brass ( annealed or not ) 1x can usually be expanded decently without annealing first but i do suggest annealing after expanding to save from splitting where the shoulder used to be
now for the expanding part .... several ways to do it best i found is a el cheapo lee universal decapper with their newer tapered 375 ruger expanding rod installed ( yes it fits just fine ) but for best results it should be shortened by removing the decapping pin part and about a 1/4" of the bottom of the rod ( up to just before where the taper starts ) done this way it makes the brass in one pass
another way is to just flare enough of the mouth to seat a round ball ( my fav prior way to do it ) load with 8- 10 grains unique and seat the ball just past full diameter and fire , suggest lubing the ball with LLA btw , one can flare enough to seat a regular boolit and use that route or the cream of wheat method if desired but the round ball load is a great plinker !
yes sir low powered cast loadings only for this conversion and the cases will come out short [shrugz] for full power loads trim starline's short 38-55 brass down , their's a vicious rumor that they may start making 375 brass ( something about tooling but other than trim to length and headstamp i dont see much difference between it and 38-55 )

[groovy mike]

38-55 brass can easily be trimmed to work if you can find that.

[Blanco]

Ok so help me out here...
Even though the reformed 30/30 will shrink a bit when formed, is there any huge reason for concern?
I mean what are we talking here .010~.020?
This is not going to be a target round... Accuracy 1MOA of Pig at 100 yards.
Buddy says the reduced recoil would make his shoulder happy

[GRUMPA]

Ok so help me out here...
Even though the reformed 30/30 will shrink a bit when formed, is there any huge reason for concern?
I mean what are we talking here .010~.020?
This is not going to be a target round... Accuracy 1MOA of Pig at 100 yards.
Buddy says the reduced recoil would make his shoulder happy

When I did those I was going to offer the finished product. Folks are just finicky when they pay for things, which.... I can relate too. I just stopped at that point figuring it's just another conversion that didn't meet my expectations. As far as using them? I don't own anything in that cal....

[fryboy]

shrinkage seems more like 1/8" or so , i dont have any cases handy to measure them but it's significant and wider than the cannelure on say a hornady or sierra j-word loading to normal j-word o.a.l.'s you'll never get close to the cannelure , with cast it's no worries ,it's also less problematic in a single shot vs. a lever action ( see that case length to crimp groove aspect again - you'll lose quite a bit of case capacity setting to the cannelure thereby raising pressures even more )
the pressure difference is the most serious aspect , the 375 case was designed for much higher pressures than the 30-30 ( which is why for years i used the 375 case to make various wildcats such as the 7-30, 30 and 357 herret )

[Blanco]

One more thing I am curious about I see J bullets in 2 Diameters .375 / .377 (this will be for a modern Winchester .375
If I were to procure a mold I would assume a .380 bullet and then squeeze it to about 377?
I wonder how well Powder coating would hold up on this?

[fryboy]

in general the bigger j-words are for the older ( and often larger bored ) 38-55 , many current 375 molds wont work for those ( too small ) years ago i had a lee 250 , at the time it was only fair in my only 375 barrel so i sold it but kept quite a few boolits , years later i acquired several more 375 barrels , so of course i tried it in those - one with great results ! so i bought a newer lee mold ...thinking was it was the same thing right ? wrong [sigh] it was much much fatter and sizing it down to .376-7 resulted in quite a bit of displacement ( from .382 ) those didnt work so well for me ,the older mold cast around .378-ish , definitely suggest slugging the bore in this case ,who knows what it will be [shrugz]

[No_1]

Blanco,
Everything the previous posters have said rings true. It is really no different than what we are doing when we load then shoot 38 special ammo in a 357Mag chambered pistol. Take a fire formed 30-30 case, add either a conventionally lubed Lyman 375449, RCBS 37-250 (both GC'd) or Lyman 375248 for a plain base boolit, use a LR primer and 10 grs of unique. It will shoot good. If you are planning to duplicate factory loads then use 375 WIN brass.

[alamogunr]

Why not just get .38-55 brass from Starline. It would have to be trimmed but that should be easier than forming from .30-30, I'm sure it would be at least as strong as converted .30-30. They don't show a ship date but are accepting orders.

I'm surprised that someone else didn't suggest this.

[EDG]

You need to slug the bore of the rifle you will be loading for.
.375 Wins are supposed to use .375 j bullets but my Marlin barrel measures .3775.

My .38-55 barrel measures .380. You never know what you will get so measuring a soft sulg or cast of the throat is probably the best idea.

I have blown out like new once fired Remington cases using powder with no bullet. I think it works better if you use a few grains of powder and a filler or a round ball. Some of the cases will blow out with wrinkles if you use only powder.


One more thing I am curious about I see J bullets in 2 Diameters .375 / .377 (this will be for a modern Winchester .375
If I were to procure a mold I would assume a .380 bullet and then squeeze it to about 377?
I wonder how well Powder coating would hold up on this?

[groovy mike]

Why not just get .38-55 brass from Starline. It would have to be trimmed but that should be easier than forming from .30-30, I'm sure it would be at least as strong as converted .30-30. They don't show a ship date but are accepting orders.

I'm surprised that someone else didn't suggest this.

Yep, reply #4 ;)

[alamogunr]

Yep, reply #4 ;)

I posted too quick. Should have read all the posts.

I remembered that Paco Kelly had written essentially the same thing in one of his books. His reason was that .38-55 brass was thinner than .375 Win and you could get more powder in it.

I don't subscribe to that line of thinking. He advocates a lot of loading practices that I don't subscribe to and I'm not recommending .38-55 brass for the purpose of stuffing more powder in the case.

[fryboy]

Yep, reply #4 ;)
or #3 lolz

sadly often starline's brass cost more than actual 375 but ...if it can be found when the 375 can not ....[shrugz]
somewhere long ago i read a blurb that starline stated it should handle 375 pressures but there was also a disclaimer that they wouldnt be responsible should you utilize it as such ( wish i could find it again) the shorter brass requires less trimming , the longer brass would work equally as well ( albeit more work )

[JFE]

I've done this quite few different ways but what I have settled on is opening the case with tapered expander. As others have mentioned, you don't need to anneal the neck/shoulder area if the brass is new, but for work or age hardened brass it's a good idea to anneal first. The cases are 2-3mm shorter than factory 375 cases but use a Lee FCD to crimp your bullets at the correct OAL and it doesn't matter, plus you will never have to trim them. I simply load a 250-300 gr cast bullet over a stiff load of R-7 and use them for hunting or plinking.

One point to note though is that I have found more variation in case capacity of 30/30 brass than any other except for 22 Hornet, so try to use one brand if possible. In general though 30/30 brass is more strongly constructed than 38/55 brass but not quite as strong as 375 brass. I've found PMC 30/30 brass to be very strong but is no longer made.

[Blanco]

I will probably wind up doing just what JFE is doing.
This is just going to be used on Texas piggies and maybe if it is accurate on some whitetail.
That was my original intent, just have some shootable ammo.
I have contacted Tim at accurate about a 230 Gr. grooveless Boolit that I intend to powder coat. And just seat the boolit farther out to the correct length and use a Lee crimp die. I think this will be the easiest workable solution.

[nanuk]

to make Whelen brass from 270, I just dropped a 270Win into my whelen and pulled the trigger.

the neck was almost completely formed.
one run through the FL sizer with a tapered expander button and she was good to go.

any reason one just can't buy cheap 30-30 ammo and do the same?


as for brass thickness, has anyone ever tested 30-30 brass to see if it is thick enough?
just saying, 30-30 is lower pressure round than 375Win, so the brass HAS TO BE thinner doesn't really tell us anything but pure speculation.

I have seen pics of sectioned brass comparing 30-30 to 375, and the difference in one example was minimal. in fact, if they hadn't told us which was which, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. (I cannot remember the brand of brass used in that case)

[nanuk]

... you'll lose quite a bit of case capacity setting to the cannelure thereby raising pressures even more )



wouldn't the pressure be lower, all else being equal, as published by Hornady in their discussion on pressure vs seating depth in bottleneck cartridges?

have you tested pressures?

[fryboy]

when one shortens a case and then sets the projectile deeper than standard o.a.l. using the same charge weight pressure will be raised ,in most cases just setting the projectile deeper raises pressures,some ,such as the hi intensity cartridges ,dramatically so ( aka 9 mm and 40 s&w) ,one is reducing case capacity ,setting the projectile out longer ( with the same charge weight ) usually lowers pressure , this is assuming that you arent setting the projectile out to the lands ,weatherby used a long leade ( freebore ) to help reduce his pressure , the running start does tend to reduce pressure to an extent and this isnt what i'd call a bottleneck cartridge more like an overgrown 357 mag that you'll now be trying to load same said mag load in a 38 special case ....yeah pressure would be up

as for actual case capacity ...it varies alot ,as mentioned previously ,in 30-30 cases, try weighing a few keeping in mind that they are close enough to the same length ( before reforming that is )

[Blanco]

I had an interesting exchange with Tom at Accurate
He said that both Winchester and Marlin just rechambered 38-55 barrels in a lot of rifles. The rub is if you go by engineering specs the .375 bullet is just barely kissing if touching at all on the rifling.
He said that he has done a lot of testing and found that the only way to get any accuracy was to use a bullet of .380 dia. He said he uses the 30/30 brass along with a long bore riding nose 250 gr. .380 bullet seated as far out as possible.
So I will definitely slug the barrel first

[Blanco]

Something else interesting
Just got the new Lee catalog in and there is a Boolit mold in 375/ 38-55 (May be an old design, just never noticed it)
I might have to look very closely at this one......
Might put feelers out and see if someone who has it would be willing to send / sell me a few slugs?

[shdwlkr]

blanco
I have a mold that produces 300 grain .379 bullets and bought some 350 grain .379 bullets that I have yet to try. College and kids and having to find a new place to rent every year makes it hard to get into casting and reloading but the good Lord willing I will be done with college in a few weeks and there will be more free time.
I also have a 248 and 264 grain I think it is in .375 caliber from what I have read the heavier the bullet the better the .375 likes it. Mine are earlier manufacture so I would not be surprised to find they are really 38-55 length as I am sure that is what Winchester did at first, my smith at the time thought so too, he was sure that there was enough room to put the 38-55 cartridge in the rifle. We never did get a chance to test it though he got cancer and I lost him.

[nanuk]

when one shortens a case and then sets the projectile deeper than standard o.a.l. using the same charge weight pressure will be raised ,in most cases just setting the projectile deeper raises pressures,some ,such as the hi intensity cartridges ,dramatically so ( aka 9 mm and 40 s&w) ,one is reducing case capacity ,setting the projectile out longer ( with the same charge weight ) usually lowers pressure , this is assuming that you arent setting the projectile out to the lands ,weatherby used a long leade ( freebore ) to help reduce his pressure , the running start does tend to reduce pressure to an extent and this isnt what i'd call a bottleneck cartridge more like an overgrown 357 mag that you'll now be trying to load same said mag load in a 38 special case ....yeah pressure would be

i know it SHOULD work that way but Hornady Ballisticians et al have found the contrary to be true. To understand this you have to disregard the case and think only of the chamber. THAT is what defines the area of contained pressure. Wheatherby freebore makes for a larger chamber. As does firing 357 mag in a Max.

Short brass is irrelevant. Seat a bullet to same COAL and as long as the brass can hold the bullet the preesure WILL be the same.

Giving a bullet a running start allows easier entry into rifing thereby artificially creating more CHAMBER for the pressure before Max pressure and therefore LOWER pressure. A bullet in freebore offers little resistance to pressure. A bullet in rifling, not much more.

I know it is counter to the old wive's tale/myth but that is what the Ballisticians have found. I wish I had a pressure test unit to try some further experiments.
But for now, as long as the Chamber isn't shortened also i would have no issues with short brass and full power loads.

for now i will trust the experts.

[alamogunr]

Nanuk: Is there a paper describing the Hornady findings? This goes contrary to everything I've read or been told. I've always accepted it as gospel.

I would feel more comfortable if I could access a paper that a reputable company had attached their name to and that went into detail about their findings.

Plus, I'm not an experimenter. I wish you had pressure test equipment too!

[Harter66]

Just as a gee wiz ...... 32 Win special is a shorter jump back to straight and might not shrink as much as 30-30 And may have a slightly thicker finished neck.

There is a 6.8 Rem forum that has several builders on it . They also advocate the longer free bore jump to the rifling to increase velocity without raising pressures.

[fryboy]

ummm chop ..** Wheatherby freebore makes for a larger chamber. As does firing 357 mag in a Max.

Short brass is irrelevant. Seat a bullet to same COAL and as long as the brass can hold the bullet the preesure WILL be the same.

*chop..chop
.

but in order to crimp in the jacketed cannalure using shorter brass the o.a.l. will be shorter , put that 357 max load in the 38 special case and tell me that pressure wont doesnt up when you crimp to the cannalure ( just please do not stand beside anyone when you pull that trigger .... )

it's for a lever action so crimping is only prudent ...

[Blanco]

I have been playing with boolit designs again....
Basicallty the Lee Boolit with no luube grooves. Crimp groove moved closer to the middle and a bit more roundness to the nose.
Idea is to use this with the modified 30-30 cases and powder coat
My guess is about 245~250 Grains


129416

[Skipper]

Nanuk: Is there a paper describing the Hornady findings? This goes contrary to everything I've read or been told. I've always accepted it as gospel.

I would feel more comfortable if I could access a paper that a reputable company had attached their name to and that went into detail about their findings.


http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/internal

[alamogunr]

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/internal

Thanks! I just found it a few minutes ago and printed it. Also printed the article on External Ballistics.

After thinking about who might be the source, Hornady came to mind. I don't have time to read it now but will over the next few days.

[Dan Cash]

To feed a .375x2 1/2 inch flanged express, I resorted to nanuk's method, .30-40 Krag ammo; spun the cartridge against a file to reduce rim, loaded it up and pulled the trigger, squared case mouth. Result was 1/4 inch short but I seated the bullet out to standard overall length. Rifle is quite accurate.

[Frank46]

Not to throw a dampener on all this creative thinking but the 375 win case was/is beefed up to take the extra pressure generated by this cartridge. So having said that if all you are doing is 38-55 loadings and pressures then go for it. But as far as taking a reformed 30-30 case and reforming it to 375 win and expect it to serve instead of the origional 375 case then you may have a problem.Just my 2 cents worth. Frank

[Blanco]

Just looking to make the lever gun shootable. I had to have an alternative to no ammo and no components. I was well aware that the 30-30 brass was not as heavy. The loads I am making would just be plinkers.

[longranger]

The problem I have found with reduced loads and cast bullets in my Win.94 B.B. .375 Win. was finding a load that would regulate to the factory barrel sights,without drilling/tapping for after market sights.Using 38-55 load data you will be lucky to be on paper @50 yds. .379 dia. seems to be the prevalent/preferred bullet dia. for cast in the Win. barrels and proven accurate in mine.

[Bent Ramrod]

I have a Hopkins and Allen .38-55 shotgun on the medium frame. At the time I found this gem, .38-55 shells were very seldom seen, so I made them from .30-30 and .32 Spl cases. I annealed the necks with a torch, dried the shells overnight, primed, put in 9 gr Unique with Cream of Wheat to fill the rest of the case, and a wax wad over the end to keep everything in.

The shells blew out to fill the chamber well. A little short, as mentioned, but this is not a benchrest gun, or even a rifle, for that matter. The pressure did not seem excessive, but the fireforming charge can do some real damage at close range. It would blow a hole through one side of a gallon pail at a range of a few inches. Not what I expected from Nonte's book, which said he fired such forming charges in his basement without disturbing the sheets his wife hung down there to dry.

[Harter66]

I formed some 7x57 with a lighter charge than that and experienced a similar event . I never liked that garbage can anyway.

[garandsrus]

The problem I have found with reduced loads and cast bullets in my Win.94 B.B. .375 Win. was finding a load that would regulate to the factory barrel sights,without drilling/tapping for after market sights.Using 38-55 load data you will be lucky to be on paper @50 yds. .379 dia. seems to be the prevalent/preferred bullet dia. for cast in the Win. barrels and proven accurate in mine.

The win 94 BB is already set up for a Lyman peep sight. There are a couple screws on the receiver that come out and the the Lyman sight and it's screws replace them. No modifications are needed and no new holes are added. This is for a top eject model. I don't know if the side eject is the same.

[Elkins45]

FWIW my 375 has never seen a 375 case. I have 100 converted 30-30 cases and 50 38-55 that I use with it. I don't load that light rifle anywhere near max with cast bullets so I don't worry about the slightly shorter or thinner cases. I think of it as shooting 22 long in a 22 LR chamber.

[BAGTIC]

You can stuff more powder in the more voluminous case but OTOH it takes more powder to produce the same velocity.

[BAGTIC]

Mine are set up for a Williams Fool Proof sight. Perhaps both sights have the same hole spacing and thread size.

[BAGTIC]

Nonte probably didn't put the muzzle within a few inches of his wife's sheets. Back up a respectable distance from the jug and see what effect it has. Substitute a fast powder such as Red Dot for the Unique and use a quarter sheet of toilet paper to keep the powder in place in the base of the case.

[BAGTIC]

They went the Roy Weatherby route. Of course the 6.8 was still rejected by the military because of high Pressures. We have a lot more powders available today than back then. Look for a more appropriate powder.

[BAGTIC]

If one shortens the case length by shortening the neck it should have no effect on pressure as long as the same bullet is loaded to the same OAL. It is not the gross case capacity that affects pressure it is the net usable capacity after the bullet is seated. One for example could either lengthen or shorten the neck of a 30-30 without affecting net capacity of the loaded round.

[nanuk]

Case capacity is not the deciding factor. Chamber dimensions are.

[justashooter]

much ado about nothing.

de-prime and resize 30-30 cases. re-prime and load 5 grains green dot or similar under a full case of cream of wheat. load into gun with muzzle pointing up. pull trigger. reload with .375 castings to less than 1500 foot pounds energy. recommended load around 10 grains unique under pillow stuffing for about 1100 fps. missouri bullet company has .375 and .379 castings. done this a lot, no ill effects, accurate enuf for plinking.

as far as containing the blast from forming: i made a bird box about 12" long from 1X6 and drilled a 1" hole in one end to fire into. the back side is a quadrupled bath towel. the box is clamped to a shelf side above my reloading bench.

[Twicepop]

Making .375 cases from 30-30s has a couple of shortcommings. The finished re-formed cases will be shorter than factory spec .375 cases. Another problem is that the .375 is a 50,000 cup loaded cartridge and the 30-30 is loaded to about 38-39,000 cup. The 30-30 brass is thinner from the neck through the lower case wall area than the .375 brass is, and could rupture if loaded to max pressure.

[EDG]

I have yet to section the base of a .375 case but the case walls thickness at the neck are exactly the same thickness as a fire formed .30-30 cases. For full power jay loads it might make some difference but at cast bullet velocities I don't think the case strength difference is significant. The cases are a little shorter. If that is a problem more expensive 38-55 brass can be used if shortened.


Making .375 cases from 30-30s has a couple of shortcommings. The finished re-formed cases will be shorter than factory spec .375 cases. Another problem is that the .375 is a 50,000 cup loaded cartridge and the 30-30 is loaded to about 38-39,000 cup. The 30-30 brass is thinner from the neck through the lower case wall area than the .375 brass is, and could rupture if loaded to max pressure.

[kopperl]

That is how I made my first loads. Bought 30-30 brass put 8 g of unique and a 150g 308 cast bullet and fired it in the 375.

[tygar]

Have you guys seen this by Buffalo Bore bullets?

Using Our 38-55 Ammo in 375 Winchester Chambered Rifles
Using Our 38-55 Ammo in 375 Winchester Chambered RiflesOur 38-55 ammo is designed to work in all 38-55 chambered firearms made with modern metallurgy for smokeless powder. It operates at 38,000 CUP—the 30-30 Winchester operates at an average max. pressure of 38,500 CUP. For those who are not aware, the 30-30 case is simply a necked down 38-55 casing.
OUR 38-55 AMMO WORKS IN ALL WINCHESTER 375 RIFLES
Our 38-55 ammo is also designed to work in ALL 375 Winchester chambered rifles. ALL means ALL. Winchester, Savage, and Marlin all chambered rifles in 375 Winchester. All 375 Winchester rifles utilize chambers long enough to accept the 2.085 inch 38-55 brass, even though 375 Winchester brass is only 2.020 inches long. By using the longer 38-55 brass, we accomplish two things:


1. We get the bullet closer to the rifling’s and this creates a generally more accurate load.
2. The longer 38-55 brass, with thinner case walls than 375 Winchester brass, gives much more case capacity and this allows chamber pressures to drop immensely. i.e. our 38-55 loads give the same performance (a 250gr. bullet @ 2000 fps) as the original 375 Winchester loading, but at only38,000 CUP instead of the industry max. pressure of 52,000 CUP that the original 375 Winchester was rated at.


TIME-TESTED & WELL-PROVEN
The concept of using 38-55 brass to produce ammo for the 375 Winchester may be new to you, but it is not to us, so please simply read carefully and believe me. We’ve sold hundreds of thousands of rounds of this ammo and about half of it has been shot in 375 Winchester rifles. A couple years before I started making 38-55 ammo as Buffalo Bore Ammunition Company, I was shooting Marlin, Savage and Winchester 375 Winchester chambered rifles and was using good old every-day 38-55 brass in all of them. To be fair and give credit where it is due, it was both Brian Pearce and Mic McPherson that pointed out I could use common, readily available and affordable 38-55 brass to make full power 375 Winchester loads.
I’ve been doing it for almost 20 years now and have not over-looked anything. If I sound jaded on this subject, it is because I am. Trying to convince folks of anything new, can be a futile attempt, so I am publishing this short text on our site and those who choose to believe me are invited to and we would love to sell you our excellent 38-55 ammo for use in your 375 Winchester or your 38-55. You will love how it performs and you’ll be glad you found a source of high quality high performance ammo for your 375 Winchester. As a customer, we owe you this type of high quality ammo and this type of time conserving straight talk. In our 17 years of doing business as Buffalo Bore Ammunition, many thousands of 375 Winchester chambered rifles have gobbled this ammo up and I’ve not had even one complaint, which I cannot say for all of our ammo.
BARREL BORE
.375 BORE RIFLES
We use a bullet that is sized .377 inch. I am aware that 375 Winchester chambered rifles utilize a .375 inch bore. When fired, the .377 inch bullet will slug/size right down to .375 without raising pressures (we’ve tested the heck out of this) this is in part due to the construction of the bullet, but also due to our powder choice.
.381 BORE RIFLES
We are also aware that many old 38-55 rifles utilize a bore diameter of up to .381 inch, but most are between .377 and .380 inch. At 38,000 cup, there is enough pressure generated by this cartridge to cause that .377 diameter bullet to hit the rifling lands and slug up to the bore diameter (all the way up to .381 inch) and give wonderful accuracy.
HARD CAST SOMEDAY? - MAYBE
We’ve considered making hard cast loads for 38-55 also, (I personally shoot hard cast 270gr. bullets in all of my several 38-55 rifles) but they are too hard to slug up when fired, so the user would have to know his bore diameter and because of this and the numerous questions it would generate, I am still holding off on making any hard cast loads. Further, when firing hard cast loads, they are also too hard to size down to a smaller bore diameter without raising pressures and the thought of a customer trying to shoot a .380 inch hard bullet down the .375 inch bore of a 375 Winchester, has me a bit nervous. So to date, hard cast loads for the 38-55 are not in production and may never be.
If you email me and ask if what I wrote here is true, I will simply refer you back to everything I wrote here…..I will not tell you something more or different than what I have put in writing here on the site. What is written here is based on decades of my experience with my own rifles and with selling many thousands of rounds of this ammo to the shooting public…… Thank you for carefully reading this information.
Good shooting and God bless.
Best,
Tim


PS
As an aside, because I love the utility of the 38-55 when loaded to full power, I’ll include the following; I own one of each of the Winchester 38-55 commemorative rifles…..Winchester made three different commemoratives. (Chief Crazy Horse, Legendary Frontiersmen and the Oliver Winchester) These are very functional and highly accurate rifles. I did not care about their collectability, so I installed aperture sights and sling swivel studs and have used them quite a bit. With proper loads, these collectable rifles will shoot 1 MOA @ 100 yards, which is super impressive for lever action 1894 design rifles. If you run across any of these commemorative Winchesters, do not dismiss them as useless collectables. They are pretty prevalent on the open market, because folks do not know just how useable a rifle they are. Part of the great utility of the 38-55 is that with our full power loads, they are capable of taking any North American game including grizzly or large AK Yukon bull moose, but they generate only about 50% of the felt recoil (this is a guess based on how the recoil feels to me) of our full power 45-70 loads……just sayin.





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[M-Tecs]

I had not seen that. Thanks

[BAGTIC]

Case capacity is not the deciding factor. Chamber dimensions are.

Imagine the following

One gun
two cases sized in the same die
each sized case has a different internal volume due to case wall thickness
both cases loaded with the same charge
both cases have identical bullets seated to identical LOA.

When fired in the same gun which round will produce the higher pressure?

It is not empty chamber volume that determines the pressure. It is the net chamber volume that remains after the case and bullet have been inserted into the chamber thereby reducing the effective chamber volume.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I didn't have time to read page 2, but does JES convert 30-30 336's to 375 win? I love that cal and am a little bored of 30-30, plus I already have another 30 cal, the 91/30,

[6.5x55]

Back in the 80's I owned both a .375 Winchester Ruger #3 and a 38x55 Ruger #1.

I still have the #1.

I shot cast boolits from a Lyman mold in both rifles using reformed 30-30 brass . My solution to identify the loads for each was to use a black marker on the cases heads of the cartridges to be fired in the .375. At the end I found a load of IMR 3031 that worked equally as well in either rifle.

IMHO I would not hesitate to use 30-30 brass in a .375 for all but hot loads, just seat the boolits out to optimum length for accuracy and feeding . Much like seating .357 boolits in .38 special cases to .357 OAL.

6.5x55

[ibgp3]

When I asked Jesse about boring out a '94 to .375 he replied that the Marlins are stronger and would be a better choice.
What I wanted, and have is a 38-55, with a .375 bore.
...but I took his answer to mean yes, he would.
... but why?
I can even use J-words when (or if) I want.

[jeepyj]

Marked as a referance.

[Harry O]

I picked up a .375 Winchester 94-BB some years ago. I had a 30-30 for years before that (which belonged to my father even before that). So, I had a bunch of 30-30 cases around. I read like everyone else that .375 cases were a lot heavier, so I looked around until I found some .375 headstamped brass. Before I shot it all up, I decided to see for myself if they were actually heavier.

Summary: Heavier, but not much heavier.

Long Story: I found about 25 unfired 30-30 brass and weighed and recorded each one of them. Then I did the same for the same number of my brand new 375 cases. The .375 **ON AVERAGE** was right at 5% heavier than the 30-30 cases. However, MOST of the cases overlapped each other. In other words, there were 30-30 cases that were heavier than .375 cases and there were .375 cases that were lighter than 30-30 cases. I wondered how much variation the weight of the cases had from production run to production run. There is no way I could test that, and it is probably a company secret for case making companies, but I doubt if that would be less than 5%. So I am thinking there is probably no real difference in case weight between the 30-30 and the .375 Win. in average production runs.

[omgb]

I use 38-55 cases in my .375. I have an early gun. The bore size is .380 and man does it have lead. It's got a ton 'o freebore. I've never had a problem with 38-55 brass

[Thin Man]

I am getting into this discussion a bit late. Since the election I have seen a steady increase in the availability of handloading components. Just lately I have noticed more and more Winchester brand brass available, and in calibers that had not been available for a long time. Last week I bought new Winchester brass in 38-55 from Chattanooga Shooters Supply which is a wholesaler for the trade. They have a retail outlet named Natchez Shooters Supply (also in Chattanooga) that sells retail but NOT to orders shipping to TN, GA or AL (this as a courtesy to the CSS customer base). Keep an eye on their site, 375 Win brass may show up there.