View Full Version : SRH Leading Problem...
I have been shooting some 44-250-K’s in my Ruger SRH and I am getting some leading in the groove that is located at approximately 5 o’clock—looking from the breech towards the muzzle. It is about ½ inch long and that appears to be the only place that is leading. It will clean out with a bit of elbow grease and a brush wrapped with a piece of a copper cleaning pad. A bit of Sweet 7.62 and some J&B Bore Cleaner also make the job a bit easier.
Since I want to use this slug for deer season this year, I would like to do some practicing—a few hundred rounds or so—and I really ain’t into the cleaning process all that much. It leads after only a dozen rounds, but I am not sure accuracy is affected at this point. I prefer to stay with this Keith style bullet and not have to go to a gas check slug. I would like to pretend I am Elmer this deer season, although I am certain 600 yard shots are out of the question…
Any thoughts on how a person might lessen this leading? Will bunches of shooting eventually smooth this area? But, in all honesty, this SRH has had a goodly number of rounds fired through it so I don’t think that is going to smooth anything out. Thanks…BCB
09-27-2005, 05:42 PM
Everything I read in the Lyman handbook says a harder boolit will lead less. Is your boolit undersize? This can also cause leading.
I use gas checks in my Super Red hawk 44. Full house loads, no leading.
09-27-2005, 06:16 PM
At what velocity? What alloy? What lube? Load?
The bullets are 0.4310”-0.4315” as cast and they are shot this size. The lube is Lee Liquid Alox. And the hardness is SAECO 6.5 or a BHN of 9-10. Velocities range from 900 fps to 1300+ fps depending on powder selection and charge. What my concern is why is the leading basically at just one location at 5 o’clock. Of course there are bits of leading at other locations just after the bullet enters the barrel, but the vast majority, and the most obvious, is the 5 o’clock position…BCB
09-28-2005, 04:33 AM
I'm betting gas blow-by is smearing lead there. Try a slower powder. Keep velocity 1200 fps or less. Use two layers of Lee Liquid Alox.
09-28-2005, 06:38 AM
BCB, one of my Bisley Vaqueros in 44 Mag does the same thing. I've suspected an alignment or timing issue. Doesn't seem to make any difference what load is put in it. Doesn't affect it enough to worry about it. sundog
09-28-2005, 09:37 AM
Could be alignment like Sundog says, or it could be that groove is a little deeper or rougher than the others. If the groups deteriorate significantly as the lead builds up, but don't if you clean every couple of cylinders, then you have a problem. Otherwise, you don't, and shouldn't fret about it. Bad for the digestion.
Some of the replies sort of scare me! But, being the realist that I claim to be, the cylinder misalignment may be the problem. But the leading does not seem to occur so abruptly with lighter loads (Green Dot or WW-230 both @ 900± fps) as it does with heavy charges of WC-820 or H-110. The H-110 was the load that prompted my to inquire with my previous post. Would it be expected that the alignment problem, if it exists, would be more pronounced with higher velocity? The leading caused by the H-110 looks like it could be dug from the 5 o’clock groove with a dental pick. That is a description of how much is there!
I only shoot one other plain base bullet and it is the 359429. I have no problem with it in my Security-Six, Model 10 Victory, or my Marlin 1894. So from this, I assume the problem my be with the SRH. All is not lost though, as the SRH shoots the Lyman 429650’s (gaschecked) like the proverbial bandit. So it appears the gas check must remove or not allow the leading to occur.
I could use a much harder alloy, but that sort of takes the cheapness away from cast bullets made of wheel weights. I probably will cast some of Lyman #2. I acquired a few lead tips from another person who posts on this site. The tips fit the profile of the 44-250-K and the 429650 real well. I wanted to cast some of the composite bullets and use for deer, but I wanted to practice with the plain bullets of wheel weight construction. Accuracy does diminish with the leading. Oh well, I guess some plans just don’t go as expected. Any other thoughts? Thanks…BCB
09-28-2005, 03:45 PM
Shooting lead, you are going to get some leading. There is no way to escape that fact. You can reduce it by smoothing the bore with condom bullets, clean after a few shots so the bullets touch steel then clean out all the copper fouling before going back to lead. 100 to 500 shots should do it.
You can power lap to speed the process.
09-28-2005, 04:26 PM
In my considerable experience, you should be able to shoot pure lead bullets through that SRH to 1200 fps with no leading. You need either more lube or less velocity.
09-29-2005, 09:03 AM
Here are a couple of other things to consider. H-110 is a great powder for jacketed bullets, but has not worked so well for me with plain base cast. I would look at some of the powders with burning rates between Unique and H-110. My present favorite in the .41 is SR-4756 (not 4759, though that might work also.) A lot of people recommend Herco in this application, too. I did not get as good results with Blue Dot.
Another thing you might try is cleaning your barrel really, really, squeaky clean with your choreboy followed by JB and Ed's Red, then polishing it out with Flitz. That doesn't completely stop leading in my DW, but it delays the start of it some.
09-29-2005, 11:03 AM
Some of the replies sort of scare me! But, being the realist that I claim to be, the cylinder misalignment may be the problem.
I could use a much harder alloy, but that sort of takes the cheapness away from cast bullets made of wheel weights.
Any other thoughts? Thanks…BCB
This could be a myriad of things. But be systematic to determine the cause as it sounds as though you are discouraged.
My guess is beak-in is the problem too. But you can see if you have an alignment problem. Use tape to mark one chamber on the outside of the gun. Shoot 5 out of this chamber, and check for lead. Repeat for each chamber. Clean after every chamber and see if it happens to all chambers or just from a couple. All leaves out alignment, but not necessarily timing. But this is a Ruger. 98% of the time, timing is not a problem.
But I would bet after all is said and done that you will find out that all you need is a hydralic lube. Keith style bullets have the front edge scraper that removes everything ahead of it. So each and every bullet HAS to carry what it needs not to lead. While LQA works wonders for me on several designs, Keiths aren't one of them.
Yea, I guess I might be a tad bit discouraged! I sort of got spoiled with the 358429’s in that, they are plain base and I didn’t get the leading problems with them. Of course, I realize that all handguns, rifles, etc are certainly different.
The 44-250-K’s do shoot well @ around 900 fps. I can shoot a box of 50 with only mild leading. Accuracy remains good throughout. I think that is acceptable, at least with my limited knowledge of cast shooting.
When I get the time, I will test each chamber separately to see if just one is the culprit. I suspect that two is all I will need to test. I think it leads from all chambers. I may replace the pawl and see if that helps. Maybe things are a bit loose?
I was hoping to get 1250-1300 fps with fair accuracy and minimal leading, but maybe that might be too much of a challenge for me. Time is always a factor. I actually can use the 429650’s as they are very accurate and produce virtually no leading with this gaschecked slug. It’s just the fact that I wanted to pretend I was Elmer for a day!
But in all honesty, it took 22 years to find the right bullet (358429) to make my Marlin 1894 shoot with very acceptable accuracy. So I guess I might have to work a few more years with the SRH and the Keith style bullet. Thanks for the replies and I will try a middle rate burn powder and some extra lube…BCB
09-30-2005, 06:41 AM
suggested and run a few hundred coated bullets thru it to smooth/flatten any rough spots.
My SRH had a rough spot about 1.5" in the barrel at 6 0-clock. It would leave a strip of lead there every time I shot cast bollits, ESPECIALLY "hard cast" commercial bullets someone gave me. WW lead for me from now on!
Afterabout 25-50 rounds of fire lapping (long time ago so I forget minor details) with a very mild lapping compound (Turtle brand automobile rubbing compound) solved the problem (this worked on several guns of mine and other owners). I have shot an afternoon of shooting of 429421s at 1200-1458 and had no significant leading. This is with Lee 50/50 and FWFWL.
What this gun will do with Lee C430310s at 50 yds surprises me!
I was discussing foot pounds of energy at the Cast Bullet Hunting forum and end up posting some of my findings concerning leading in my SRH. There is nothing there that is earth shattering, but closer observation of the velocities and the leading have shown me some interesting facts. Take a look and see if you are still interested in the leading of the SRH...BCB
10-18-2005, 08:24 AM
I was shooting my Bisley BH in .45 Colt this weekend, using the 280 gr. RCBS SWC. I noticed some leading in the same spot that BCB mentioned in his original post, and Sundog also noted. I wondered why this spot seems to be a common denominator. It occurred to me to ask if either of you have an aftermarket cylinder pin in your guns, as I do.
Since I purchased my SRH used (it was only a few months old though), I can't say if it is stock or aftermarket. Yet, I suspect it is what Ruger put in this SRH. Is there anyway of knowing by looking at the pin? Thanks...BCB
10-19-2005, 09:07 AM
BCB, guess I had a senior moment there. I thought you had a SBH instead of a SRH. The Belt Mountain pins are for the single actions only. OK, back to the drawing board.
10-20-2005, 11:00 AM
Junior, I don't know how you do that. A friend sent me a pile of pure lead bullets with two coats of Lee moly. They were .453 to .454 for my Vaquero. I shot them at around 700 fps and they filled my bore with lead. I melted them down for round balls. I shoot heavy, (335 to 350 gr.) hard cast to almost 1200 fps for hunting with zero lead. None of my Rugers have given me more then a few specks of leading. I have never lost accuracy from leading until I tried the soft ones. I shoot tons of water dropped WW's and harder with tin and antimony added with no leading problems.
10-20-2005, 12:07 PM
It's common sense to shoot the hardest boolit possible using the alloy on hand. If the gun won't shoot that alloy, then those boolits don't fit the gun one way or another. Two choices, tailor the gun, or tailor the boolits to make things right for that chosen application. It's cheaper to tailor the boolits? Not always, considering the cost of alloy augmentation. But, if the gun won't shoot condoms, then the gun has to be fixed.
10-20-2005, 12:17 PM
44man, I've shot several hundred pure lead Lee TL430-240-SWC through my SBH with no leading. Velocity was probably 1100 fps. Just recently I sent several hundred Lee 430-310-RF pure lead bullets at 1200 fps through it, again with zero leading. Lube was double-dipped Lee Liquid Alox. Could you be not getting enough lube?
10-21-2005, 06:39 PM
I dug out a few that I didn't melt yet and put a third coat of Lee lube on them. I stepped up the load with Unique and shot 5. Took me an hour to get the lead out. I have tried the Lee lube on hard boolits also with no luck, getting lead in the bore. I don't like the stuff. No more soft boolits or Lee lube! I will stick with hard cast and Felix lube.
I have tried a lot of the factory swaged junk too with all sorts of lubes, (I was given some from friends that hated them) and they all leave piles of lead behind. I will keep the soft lead for muzzle loader round balls. I don't get lead in my cap and ball because of the burning characteristics of black powder and the lubes, soft lead sucks with smokeless.
11-12-2005, 07:18 PM
I have shot the store bought Pb bullets when there was a great buy & I didn't have any home made. Both in 357 & 44 they are ok if you keep the vel low, but not my cup of tea so to speak.
I prefer ww cast w/ a gc. Also I prefer my sluch quenched bullets in both pistol & rifle.
These are shot in a ruger BH 357, A SBH 44, & A RH 44.
Store bought are limited to 1000'/s or less.
My home made bullets can go faster w/out leading.
3 options are:
1 harder alloy
2 try diff. bullet dia.
3 gas checks
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