Question On The 45-70 Lead Bullet

[lonewolf5347]

I do not cast my own bullets but a buddie of mine does,I did speak with him today ask him what moulds he had for the 45-70.He did states he cast them in 405 grain but what threw me off was they are .457 diameter I thought the 45-70 needed a .458 diameter bullet.I also mention to him how hard should the lead be or the (BHN) he stated with FPS between 1450-1600 A BHN of 8 should work best or should it be let say BHN 15. My next question is on the POWDER .
I have Goex 3F only can I use this powder and reduce the load by 15 percent compared to 2f.
I just pick up a H@R buffalo classic in 45-70 ,think it would be alot of fun shooting,besides my flinters

I here a lot of talk about a filler or wad ,when is it used and is it used when loading black?

[13Echo]

As a good start go to this site and download the set of instructions for loading the blackpowder cartridge rifle.

http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/Resources/Introduction%20to%20BPCR%20Loading.pdf

It is a good first introduction. Then you need to subscribe to various boards on the web. Oh yes, welcome to the Holy Black. Nothing is quite as much fun as a single shot black powder rifle with a really big cartridge and bullet.

Jerry Liles

[KCSO]

If you are going to shoot black powder, one of your most important factors will be the lube. Without a good lube you will either have to clean every three shots. Bullet diameter with a soft bullet might not be that critical as black will bump up the bullet. The military bullets I have pulled all were soft lead and ran 458 on average and they were shot in guns with bores that ran to 463. The second consideration wuld be how much lube you can put on the bullets. A bullet made in 1880 had wide deep grooves and held a lot of lube, as the lube keeps the fouling soft. Modern bullets for smokless have narrow grooves and don't work well with black. You will need at least some compression on your powder to get a uniform burn. I have used 60 grains of FFFg elephant with a felt wad and have gotten moderatly good results. (3" or so at 100 yards) But by the same token 67 grains of FFg setteled in the case with a 405 HB bullet will group into 1 1/2" from my Sharps.

Don't be afraid to experiment as the gun may surprise you .

[SharpsShooter]

Lonewolf,

45-70 boolits typically drop out of the mould at .457. If you have one that drops at .458 or .460, it is a keeper. Shooting BP typically requires soft boolits and the 8 BNH will work fine as it is soft enough to bump up to proper diameter. Most BP 45-70 loads never exceed 1400fps, so softer is better. Be extremely cautious of reducing loads with 3f that you do not have an air gap between the powder column and the base of the boolit. Air gaps are lethal and not to be tolerated.

Also, the wad between powder and boolit is used to prevent cutting of the base of the boolit and some say it wipes fouling too. For consistency, I recommend you weigh each charge, as this will give you consistent powder column height and will provide a seating depth that is repeatable.

Regards

:grin:

[njmj]

Lone wolf,
You can shoot the 3F without a problem. Forget all the wads and fillers at first. Keep it simple. You can complicate matters later. My 40-65 doesn't seem to know if there's a wad there or not. Use one of the commercial lubes for BP or make your own out of beeswax and crisco 50/50. I haven't seen a lube yet that keeps the fouling soft. Either use a blowtube between shots or wipe with a damp patch. If there is only one undeniable truth in shooting black powder it is that BP fouling destroys accuracy. Either turn the crud to mud or remove it.
A friend has two handi rifles. Both have throats that have one long taper from case O.D. to land dia. These are not suited very well for lead bullets. I hope yours is different. Good luck, Marshall

[wills]

Take a look at the board on the Shilo Sharps site.

http://shilohrifle.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=5

[McLintock]

You need to slug the barrel on your rifle and see what it's bore size is and then look for a bullet about .001" over that size. Use a round lead ball from a 50 Caliber percussion piece to slug it. Does your friend's mould drop the bullets at .457 or does he size them to that diameter? If the latter you may be able to just buy another sizing die and use his bullets with no problem. Regarding the 3F in lieu of 2F, if you want to reduce the load just put in an additional .060" wad and this should do the trick. Messing with fillers is a pain and like has been said, you don't want any gaps between the bullet and powder, ringed chambers can result. Also, in loading 3F in a 38-55, I have found that it takes more capacity for the same amount, grains wise, than 2F, so I have to use less weight; this is with Swiss powder, don't know about Goex, etc. Also, using a powder like Swiss, which doesn't need as much compression to shoot well, will reduce your loads. Read the stuff from the sites that has been suggested, they will answer a lot of questions on loading black powder in cartridge guns. Good luck, you'll have lots of fun with it,
McLintock

[lonewolf5347]

McLintock: mould drop the bullets at .460 he size them to .457 diameter

[McLintock]

Great, if you don't want to slug your gun, just get a .459 sizer die and go for it; that should work with about any 45-70. My 45-70 BPCR slugged at .459, so I had a custom .460 sizer die made for it. Make sure as others have suggested that the bullet has big enough lube grooves and get a black powder lube and you're in business. One thing to think about is that 3F powder normally shoots dryer than coaser grained ones and tends to foul out the barrel easier, so the lube and lube capacity is important. Use 1.5F or 2F and it'll shoot cleaner with most powders. Some BPCR shooters go to 1F in large capacity cases (45-100 and bigger, 50-90) and long barrels (32-34"er's) for this reason.
McLintock

[JohnH]

I've nothing to add about the 45-70, it's bullets, guns, loads or anything else, I just continue to be amazed that this old timer keeps on ticking. It ain't one I'd run out and buy, I've had several, my last reminded me why I didn't need one (I forget) but I must say...45-70..... Salute!