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Andy
01-24-2015, 12:48 AM
Hi everyone, this data may not be overly useful to the more experienced guys on here but I figured it might help out the new guys like me. I have learned so many great things from this board I wanted to share the wealth in whatever small way I can initially. Here is my bullet weight data from my 2nd ever casting session. This is my first casting session with the Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot, first time was with a borrowed cast iron pot and ladle so this includes me learning the ropes with this thing. Should at least be an easy-to-beat benchmark for anyone planning out what to get/what to plan on for yield.

Couple questions at the end if you feel like looking at them.

Info:
- Lee 4-20 bottom pour pot (pour spout was honed with valve grinding compound based on advice from this forum (thanks), almost completely eliminated the dripping.
- COWW +2% tin ingots into pot
- Pot kept at 700-800 degrees according to lyman stick thermometer
- Lee 120-tc 6 cavity mold
- Fluxed at start and at 1/2 full mark with frankfort no-smoke flux
- probably had at least 10% inefficiency due to technique mistakes from learning the new bottom-pour style
- Ohaus 10-10 scale

Bullet data:Total of 234 bullets measured- Center mass was roughly 116.5 grains so I divided into the following categories:
- Main group 116.0-117.0: 167 bullets

- High weight 117.0+-117.5: 21 bullets

- Low weight: 115.5-116.0-: 8 bullets



- Anything outside those numbers became a cull, also the "low weight" quantity would have been higher but I realized many of them were culls (rounded base) once I noticed the weight.

- 38 of the 167 main batch met my arbitrary "match grade" requirement of 116.4-116.6gr and also passed a detailed visual inspection. In this group, anything that had any minor inconsistent defect was returned to the main group. All bullets passed a visual inspection (no wrinkles etc) but the "match grade" inspection was very stringent. I have no competition plans but will use these once I am testing loads for accuracy.
- There were at least 5 "can't explain it" out-of-range over or under weight bullets. Everything looked fine but the light ones must have had an air bubble and I can't explain the heavy ones.


I would have had wider-range low/high groups but that was the most I could accurately discern with the scale tick marks without changing the weight on the scale itself. I started with a shorter weight range and 5 groups instead of 3 but realized I don't want to be sorting 9mm bullets into 5 categories given my intended purpose (mostly defensive training). After weighing I packaged into "standard," "plinking," (high and low groups) and "match" boxes, which seems to fit my purpose for this gun.


For what it is worth I had at least 15 lbs of lead in the pot and once you calculate it out, only 25% of that became bullets (between sprues, bullets scrapped when heating the mold, 10-20 glaring obvious culls, drip/overflow waste, couple pounds left in the bottom of the pot when done etc). And factoring for final culls only about 18-20% of the total weight became useable bullets. So, I can see why you don't want a 10lb pot, glad I have a 20 as this batch size is reasonable to me.
I didn't re-introduce sprues/culls to the pot as I was going, which could be done to increase yield before re-heat, wanted to see what I got out of a known weight.

Lessons learned:
- Aim the pour flow toward the handle side of the bevel on each sprue plate taper, this seemed to be a big deal to help fill the mold better and keep overflow from ruining the next bullet in sequence (pushing mold in toward the pot, not pulling).
- Setting 3-4 kept the alloy at 700-800 degrees (need to refine this more) with a full pot through half pot.
- With a 3/4 full pot of previously melted and cooled alloy, it took less than 15 min to get up to 700 degrees on the highest setting on the pot. This was great news based on what I had read.
- Using this pot was way more pleasant than casting over a stove pot with a ladle, much less heat on the user and far easier to get good pours with. Really worth the $60 unless you just can't spare it.

Questions:
- Are my weight categories reasonable given the purpose? Figure I would like the weight itself (ignore other factors) to affect groups less than 1" at 25 yds. Figure a 3-4" group is normal with this gun off bags.
- I kept having problems with the 1st and 2nd cavity (farthest away as you hold the mold) not filling out the bases fully (needed to be culled ~75% of the time), any ideas/tips?
- Very sick of bullets not falling from the mold, at least half the time I had to tap the bolt to get them to drop, is this normal and I just have to deal with it or is there a solution? With the 6 cavity your second hand is on the sprue handle so it is pretty slow/annoying to have to let go and pick up a mallet to tap the handle bolt. I smoked the mold but probably not as well as I should have.

Thanks, hope this is useful to someone
Andy

jcren
01-24-2015, 01:04 AM
If I have unfilled bases on my Lee molds, that usually means I have burnt lube residue blocking the vent lines. Sometimes they filled out, sometimes not, apparently depending on pour technique and whether the cast could vent. Thoroughly clean the mold surfaces. As far as drop, a good smoke will help until the mold breaks in, but I fou d that a light polishing with JB compound or simular light abrasive will speed break in substantially and improve boolit drop. Check "Lee-meeting" threads here, and don't worry, it is easy and you can hardly skrew up going slow with a mild abrasive, added bonus, mold will cast "rounder" boolits after.

Andy
01-26-2015, 11:42 PM
edit: posted previous reply in wrong thread

jcren thanks for the tips, I also wondered if it was not venting properly. The problem cavity is the closest to the sprue hinge, do you think I might have the sprue plate too tight?

I did clean the whole cavity thoroughly with brake cleaner (high pressure spray over all surfaces) then wiped all surfaces down with clean cotton, then rinsed with denatured alcohol, before the first cast. So, I'm hoping that is adequate for cleaning. I got decent bullets out of the problem cavity at least 25% of the time, so I'm not sure why one time is different than the rest.

I've only cast about 3-400 bullets with this mold so far, is this just part of the break-in period and I shouldn't worry about messing with it until I'm farther along?

JohnH
01-27-2015, 12:25 AM
Sounds like your learning curve, while still climbing, has taken a leveling off step. Sometimes I wonder if my learning curve has gone from going straight up to doubling back o itself ;)

Cherokee
01-27-2015, 06:19 PM
I wonder if you alloy is not richer in tin/antimony than you think...both my 6Cv 356120TC molds cast @ 120-121 from my 3/3/94 alloy which I use for that boolit. I usually have to tap the handle bolt lightly to get all the boolits to drop from with mold so I don't consider that unusual, nor a problm for me. I would not worry about +/- 1 gr variation for you intended purpose. I never smoke my molds. You are stil learning and developing thechniques so keep at it.

jcren
01-27-2015, 06:46 PM
In my case, excess lube on the guide pins burned on the mold. You shouldn't see any Brown/black residue on your mold faces. I haven't seen the too tight spru plate problem, but others on here have. I just adjust mine so it has a little drag then loosen u til I can barely wiggle it against the wave washer.

Andy
01-30-2015, 12:08 PM
Jcren I did a search but couldn't find anything but a casual reference to lee-meeting, what is that process or could you link to a thread? I tried google and forum searches but no luck.

I feel like the mold doesn't even really have true vent lines, just deliberately slightly noticeable milling marks on the faces. My mold faces are black from when I smoked the cavities, is that bad?

Cherokee these are from ingots sold as "COWW only" ingots on ebay so your guess is as good as mine as to content.

Going to cast up a bunch of .45 bullets today, off to get the pot started.

1911KY
01-30-2015, 05:12 PM
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?654-Sure-Fire-Lee-Menting-Technique-%28Aimoo-Post-Revisited%29

Are you preheating your mold before casting?

I don't smoke my molds at all, I clean them with hot soapy water. NOE molds instruct you to bring them up to 400 F a few times and let them cool down to room temp before reheating. I did this with my NOE and my Lee 6 cavity. I don't have any issues out of either mold.

You will have to hit handle bolt on occasion to get the bullets to drop, but not every time.

Do you think your first pour is streaming faster than the rest? I have noticed if I open the valve to quickly that first pour can be a bit erratic and doesn't pour as smooth as the others. The sprue will also jump over into the second cavity if I don't watch it carefully. Just something to pay attention to on your next session.

Andy
01-30-2015, 09:04 PM
I set the mold over the top of the lead pot while it is warming up to preheat it and then also very quickly go over it with a torch right before casting just to make sure no water is hiding anywhere.

Thanks for the link, looks like a lot of good info in there, I'll read it tonight.

Probably won't be able to cast 9mm for a week or so, but I cast .45 (200 swc, lee 6 cavity as well) today and had much better luck than I was having with the 9mm mold before. I probably ought to go read a little more on casting in general before I start troubleshooting it, it is possible I am just doing some of the basics wrong.

clintsfolly
01-31-2015, 10:26 PM
Andy your pot will heat up just as fast at your pour setting as on high. The thermostat is full on till it gets the the set temp. Clint

Andy
02-01-2015, 01:06 AM
Clint thanks for the tip, I won't bother heating it up on setting 9 knowing that now. Where is the thermostat in these things? Anyone ever take one apart? It does seem to hold 750 degrees pretty reliably on setting 4 in my environment. I've been keeping tabs with a thermometer and it stays pretty consistent regardless of how full it is, until it drops to about 1/5 or 1/6 full and then it drops down to 725 ish and then closer to 700 as it becomes almost empty.

clintsfolly
02-01-2015, 02:31 PM
Just under the knob Clint

Vinne
02-01-2015, 03:04 PM
I adjust my valve rod to give the smallest allowable stream. That way I can fill any size mold without having to make changes. My pot runs a little bit hotter and it takes a few seconds longer for the mold to cool but I mostly cast with 6 gangers. You have gone too small if the stream no longer flows with each pour.

jcren
02-01-2015, 04:05 PM
Sorry, just saw the post. I think someone posted a link, but basically take a couple boolits and drill a small hole in the middle, thread in a small skrew, coat boolit on fine polishing compound ( you can apply to problem spots if the rest is good) and turn boolit by hand or with a low speed drill driver. It works.