Marlin 1894 Cowboy cast and BP loads 45 Colt?

[RPRNY]

Just picked up an early 1894 Cowboy Limited 24" barrel in 45 Colt. Was trying to take some of the guess work and time out of load development with your help.

Anyone have bore and groove dimensions available?

My experience with cast in my 336 30-30 micro groove is that .311" bullets at 1600 - 1700 work very well so I'm guessing that in the 45 Colt, 25 - 26 grs Old Eynsford FFg under .454" sized 255gr RNFP are likely to work. Guessing.
(EDIT: this should have read 35 - 36 grs OE, sorry)

Would appreciate hearing what has worked- or hasn't - for others.

Thanks very much.

[btroj]

I shoot .452 in mine. I don't use black so I can't help there. Be prepared for lots of fouling in the chamber and action, mine has a huge chamber. I mean HUGE.

[RPRNY]

Oh. That's no good. That means stiff loads rather than poofters. Swaged .454" should help. Loads o' lube too I guess [emoji19]

[btroj]

Swaged 454 won't help at all unless you shoot loads that expands the case enough to seal the chamber. Just learn how to trea the rifle down completely for cleaning each year. Makes 45 minutes start to finish and I do it annually. In the meantime I just use an old bore brush and patches to get most of the grunge out of the action. Never had it make the gun stop runnng.
I look past this issue as the rifle shoots very well, is easy to find good loads for, and is a handy rilfe in the woods. It was the first leveraction I bought and now I own six.

[Foto Joe]

Loaded properly you really shouldn't have much issue with fouling the action using Black Powder. I would however recommend 3f instead of 2f as the former will produce "less" fouling than the latter, of course "less" fouling with Black Powder is a pretty relative term.

Before you load 45 Colt brass with BP I'd suggest that you fire form the brass at least twice with smokeless loads to your chamber. Then when reloading "do not" resize the brass, this will cut down greatly on the blow back that 45 Colt is famous for. Of course you're probably going to have to size boolits to .454 to keep them from falling into the unsized brass. Your powder charge of 25gr under a 255RNFP sound pretty reasonable although the muzzle velocities are probably going to be slow enough to see with that heavy boolit, make sure that you use filler to take up any extra space between the powder and boolit. Cream of wheat or corn meal works good.

Remember to use soft boolits and have fun, it's pretty addicting to shoot BP cartridges.

[bigted]

here is what im doing with my winchester '92' in the 45 colt to make it shoot;

-take a fired case from your rifle and measure the mouth with no previous crimp.
-take this diameter and find a boolit that will fill the mouth of the fired case.
-with your clean UNSIZED cases ... just slightly flair to keep from shaving lead when seating with your thumb.
-load these boolits into your unsized cases and compress your blackpowder [I use 2F GOEX as of now] around 1/8th to 3/16ths inch.
-just remove the slight flair from the loaded cases so they will not hang up on stuff as it is worked thru the rifle action.
-load should be dropped a slight distance into the case to settle it and prolly be around 35 to 38 grains of the 2F powder.
-this will seal the chamber and allow the fouling to remain in the barrel instead of the action.
-have fun with these rounds as this is what the 45 Colt was designed for.

cleaning a marlin is easy peasy;

-open the action around half way.
-pull the lever thru bolt out and remove the lever from the bolt.
-laying the rifle on its LEFT side [opposite side from the port].
-pull the bolt from the receiver.
-without moving the rifle from the left side ... peer into the action in the groove where the ejector is located and remove the ejector.
-you can remove the ejector from its perch with a snappy smack on the receiver on the left side while holding your hand over the shell port to catch the lil bugger as it comes out of the receiver.

NOW you can clean your rifle with 1 way shoves from breech to muzzle with no dragging back crud from your barrel. 2 wet with water n dish soap patch's will remove most of the BP fouling. continue till no dirty patch's are found then follow with dry patch's followed by an oily patch or 2 to preserve the clean metal from any rust of corrosion that may want to reside in there till the next time you go shooting.

[RPRNY]

Thanks very much. The advice on case treatment is very helpful.

[Gunlaker]

Your load is almost exactly what I've used in my Marlin. I use the same bullet in 20:1, unsized at .454", SPG, 30gr of Goex FFg. The cases sealed far better than when using Unique, as black powder has a pretty quick initial pressure spike. Accuracy is comparable to using 9gr of Unique and a 250gr HP/XTP at 100m.

Chris.

[blackpowder man]

I shot a bunch of bp loads in my 1860 henry .45 and man the action got nasty and required a complete tear down to get it clean. Was planning on shooting some through my 1894 marlin cowboy limited, but I think it would need complete disassambly to get it clean. I thought about annealing the brass.... Just don't have as much time as I used to. Maybe that unsized brass idea is worth a try. I don't size any of the rifle brass I shoot with bp in my single shots. I aslo think 35-38 grains will give you better performance. I absolutely love how accurate my marlin cowboy is. Give us a report after you shoot some.

[w30wcf]

The pards have given great advice. If you are using standard Goex, you will need a bullet that will carry enough lube to prevent "foul out" which is a hard ring of fouling beginning at the muzzle and extending back into the barrel which kills accuracy.

What bullet are you using?

The 45 Big Lube PRS 250 bullet is such a bullet and can be purchased from
http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/BigLube.html

Mold: www.biglube.com

www.accuratemolds.com (http://www.accuratemolds.com) offers the 45-260F which is another good bullet that runs well with the more fouling Goex.
The advantage of dealing with them is that one can order the mold in the size desired. I ordered that mold in a .457" diameter which fits nicely in fired cases from my Marlin Cowboy.

The original 2 groove bullet works best with Swiss or Olde Enysford.

Have fun!

w30wcf

[Nobade]

I can't add much here, you've got good advice so far. I use #454191 sized to .454" over 35gr. Old "E" FFg. Cases are annealed, only ever neck sized (sizer is turned way out) and expander plug is custom to produce very light neck tension. Absolutely zero blowback into the action, cases stay clean on the outside. Very good accuracy, and with the good quality powder I can go 50 rounds easy without having to wipe. Bullets cast from air cooled wheelweights/range scrap mix, and lubed with NASA lube. I went to FFg instead of FFFg to calm it down a bit, since I use the same ammo in my Colt SAA revolver. It's pretty violent with FFFg and easier to manage with FFg. The rifle doesn't seem to care either way and it's great in the cowboy silhouette matches.

-Nobade

[w30wcf]

Nobade,
Glad to see that you're knockin' those steel silhouette's down with the b.p. .45 Colt.:smile:
Are you using the 300 gr 454191 or 250 gr 454190?

As the old expression goes .... "A picture is worth a thousand words."

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/45Coltannealednecksizedjpg.jpg

Here's some bullet molds available from Accurate Molds.
The 2 groove bullets work best with Olde Enysford or Swiss since they will not foul out with them.
On the other hand, the 45-260F carries the additional lube necessary to run trouble free with Goex.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/45Coltbpbullets.jpg

w30wcf

[Nobade]

Hmmm, had to think about it - I do have a #457191, made for the 45-90, but the one I use in the 45 Colt is the #454190. It looks just like the original 45 Colt bullet. Too many moulds and not enough memory available!

But yes, the 32-20, 357 mag, 44 mag, and 45 Colt are all getting plenty of use with black powder for knocking down the steel. They all work great, as long as I can manage to point them in the right direction!

-Nobade

[blackpowder man]

I forgot to mention I use a 454 sized to 452 that is a big lube boolit from noe that weighs 230 grains I believe. It is patterned after a .44-40 boolit mold he does with an enlarged lube groove and a bigger diameter for the 44 that I also shoot with bp. I use homemade lube, I think it's called Emmet's.

[RPRNY]

I like the looks of that 45-250D!

[Dale53]

I have shot a LOT of black powder cartridge loads in my Ruger Bisley Vaquero. My bullet of choice was/is Lyman's 452664. The Accurate bullets look like winners, too. As others have mentioned, size of the bullet vs. the rifle is extremely important.

Another important item is you MUST use a proper black powder lube. My choice has been home made Emmert's. The original Emmert's is 50% pure natural beeswax, 40% Crisco, and 10% Canola Oil. I found that shelf life on loaded rounds was increased by replacing the 10% Canola oil with 10% Anhydrous Lanolin. I can fire approximately 70 rounds before fouling starts causing problems.

Soft bullets will deform if you try to compress the powder too much. When using the bullet to compress the powder, 1/16" works well. Any more and you can damage the bullet. I do NOT use a wad when reloading black powder cartridges for a pistol caliber rifle. 2F will recoil less and give a bit less velocity.

I use a good home made black powder solvent in preference to water for cleaning my handgun. My choice is Friendship Speed Juice. It is equal amounts of isopropyl alcohol, hydrogen peroxide and Murphy's Oil Soap. Keep in mind that Speed Juice will chemically clean your gun. It will NOT preserve it. After use, I simply run a couple of wet patches of Ed's Red through the barrel and wipe off eveything else with same.

The military suggested, for years, that guns shot with corrosive ammo should be cleaned again a couple of days later. A couple of days after I have cleaned my gun as seen above, I run a wet patch of Ed's Red AGAIN through the barrel and wipe off. That helps to insure that no area was missed.

Another thing that must be considered with a lever action rifle, the bullet must be of the correct shape and nose length to function through the action. Just keep that in mind.

My alloy for black powder cartridge use is 30/1 lead/tin. If you use WW's, then I suggest 50% clip on WW's and 50% pure lead then add 2% tin by weight to insure good fillout when casting.

One other item:
I decap my cartridge cases at the range and drop them in a milk bottle filled about 3/4ths with water with a couple of squirts of Dawn Dishwashing Liquid in it. By the time you get home, the heavy work is done. Shake them a bit, pour out the water and fill with hot tap water, shake (do this a couple of times) then I dump in a dedicated collander (not to be used for food, later) and shake excess water out. I then dump them, as is, in my vibratory case tumbler and run for an hour or so. The cases come out sparkling new and will last a LONG Time. Any media that gets in the flash hole will be removed by the decapping pin when you reload them.

Just a thought or two.

Dale53

[RPRNY]

Thanks. My lube is a modified Emmerts I guess that I pinched from Paul Mathews: winter version is 45% beeswax/40% Crisco/and 15% made up of equal parts oil soap and Jojoba oil (allegedly very high boiling point but *** do I know). Summer: the beeswax content goes up.

Smells good too. Use it on my leather and boots, as polish on my wood gun cases, and on my hands too! I'm a rower and it keeps my callouses from cracking and peeling. Handed out in tuna tins at a few regattas as "rower's BPL". If they only knew!!