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Vel
01-23-2015, 07:48 PM
Hello, Newbie here. Just starting to look into casting my own boolits and am currently in the process of securing sources of lead. Now I have at my disposal plenty of range lead, but I'm wondering on what the best way to clean it all is. Much of the lead has copper jackets and what not. So what are your methods of dealing with range lead?

Sig
01-23-2015, 07:50 PM
Read the stickies. Enough info there on cleaning lead to make your head spin.:smile:

Vel
01-23-2015, 07:59 PM
Ok will do! Thanks

merlin101
01-23-2015, 08:01 PM
^^^ yep , lots of info here , just look in the 'lead' section. BTW Welcome!

lightman
01-23-2015, 08:05 PM
Yeah, reading some of the threads will give you lots of info. Some dump it out in the driveway and hose it off. Others pick out the biggest pieces of trash before dumping it in the melting pot. It depends on how dirty it is. If you wash it, only add it to a cold pot. Watch out for live ammo!

Beagle333
01-23-2015, 08:07 PM
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/google.php?cx=partner-pub-6216953551359885%3A1942134700&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=smelting+range+scrap&siteurl=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fforumdisplay.ph p%3F2-Bullet-Casting-and-Reloading&ref=castboolits.gunloads.com%2Fforumdisplay.php%3F 8-Cast-Boolits&ss=3598j686008j24&sa.x=0&sa.y=0

There's a search showing lots of threads on it.... Have fun and congrats on scoring a lot of lead! :drinks:

country gent
01-23-2015, 08:07 PM
Make a big pot, alot use a 25lb propane tank cut apart. Fill with range lead and add heat melt down to around 700* F and stir with wood shavings or saw dust flux several times and with a slotted spoon skim of the dross on top of melt ( this will be dirt jackets and impirities) flux again with sawdust and then with beeswax or parafin. skim to clean surface and pour ingots. Unless you are completely sure the range lead is dry do not add to molten metal start with full pot and melt getting what you do from it. Adding damp material to a hot pot will bring the tinsel fairy quick. Depending on where you cut te propane cylinder it can hold 100-400lbs of molten metal. Another use for this big pot and heavy stand is blending alloies. Add everything and melt flux and pour ingots a large batch all the same and consistent. A weed burner or even wood coal and a blower will melt lead quick.

JWFilips
01-23-2015, 09:05 PM
Ok This still never made a "Sticky" but it is the best:
A Quote from DukeinMaine ( Now Duke in Florida) I Quote:


"Here goes..... I am VERY fussy with my ingots. From the sounds of it, I would NOT WANT some of the ingots that some of you produce. Not clean enough for my guns.

Here's the basis for how I do it: I want as close to PURE alloy as I can get. NO GRIT remaining. NONE. Every bit of grit that you allow to enter an ingot becomes abrasive that wears out your barrel. At a commercial lead processing plant, they use very expensive ceramic filters that get all grit out. We hobby smelters can't afford the expensive ceramic filters, so we have to FLUX like crazy to get the lead as clean as possible.

So, here's my system:

1) I always leave the last inch of molten lead in the pot from the previous smelt. I allow that to cool, and mark what it is, with a Sharpie. Next time I smelt that alloy, I put that disk back in the pot, which maintains 100% contact with the smelting pot, and therefore melts fast, giving me a good lead puddle for the boolits/range lead to melt into. If you skip that step, the edges of the range lead have little contact with the smelting pot, and will take longer to start melting.

2) I add a couple of inches of range lead into the pot, and allow that to come up to temperature and melt. I DO NOT fill up the smelting pot........ To do so would introduce too much copper jackets and other debris that needs to get skimmed off. I do my adding in layers, and that goes very fast. Add/Skim/Add/Skim, etc. Continue adding and skimming the big stuff off the top until you have a pot pretty full. The previous comment about the strength of the stand is worth paying attention to. One summer day a couple of year ago, I was smelting 200 pound batches and was horrified when I noticed that the stand leg had started to sink into the hot top, and the stand was dangerously leaning. I had to be very careful to not knock it over while fluxing. Once you have a safe pot full of molten lead, with only the BIG STUFF skimmed off, it's time to start fluxing.

3) The fluxing is the process or technique for separating the grit and other small debris from the metal. You want to end up with as clean a metal as you can, for the sake of the longer life of your guns. The lead is not only heavy, but very dense. The larger stuff that you skimmed off had enough flotation ability to float itself to the surface. The smaller grit does NOT have enough flotation to push itself easily through the dense metal. That's what the fluxing techniques does........ it opens pathways through the dense metal for the small grit to make it's way to the surface.

4) Stirring and the addition of fluxing agents assists with making pathways. It also, and this is an important aspect of fluxing........... it also provides "bonding agents" for the small grit particles to stick and adhere to, clumping them into bigger pieces, for easier removal. So, stirring with anything, a metal spoon, a wooden stick.... when done correctly, will open eddy currents (think whirlpool action) that will allow the grit to make it's way to the top for skimming. And, agents like sappy pine, motor oil, pine sticks (dual purpose), old candle wax, parrafin wax, etc act as perfect fluxing agents for the other part of the fluxing action. Pine saw dust is just about one of the best fluxing agents you could use. It's sappy enough to provide the sap agent that allows the grit to stick to it. And, the small particle size assists with creating nice pathways to the surface, when stirred into whirlpools through the lead. Hard wood saw dust isn't as good, but better than nothing. Get bales of pine sawdust at your local feed and grain store. They use it as horse bedding. You could also use pine shavings, but it's not quite as good as pine sawdust.

5) I grab a handful of pine sawdust, and toss it onto the surface of the molten lead. I use a stainless steel slotted spoon with a long handle (bbq type spoon) and start stirring right away. I stir right to the bottom of the pot, pulling up all the grit I can from the bottom. Keep stirring.... The sawdust will eventually become charcoal, and will soon burn into ash. You want to skim the charcoal and all the grey powder grit that floats to the top off the lead with the edge of your spoon, before it turns to ash. Go slow with moving the edge of the spoon through the lead, and you will see that it's easy to pick up the skimmed material. Pull it slowly towards the edge of the pot, and turn your wrist, and you'll see the grit (grey powder) in the spoon. When you are done with the initial sawdust flux, the top surface of the lead should be somewhat shiny. However, the lower portions of the lead are still nasty! I do this sawdust flux about 4-5 times, or until I start to see dramatic reductions in the amount of grit I am picking off the surface. For some really sandy range lead, I have been known to flux with the pine sawdust as many as 10 times before moving to the next step. Be as fussy as you want to be. It's your lead! And, your guns!

6) Once I have achieved some level of cleanness with the pine saw dust fluxing, I switch over to paraffin wax, which is finer agent, and will get more of the smaller particles out. Old candles are always plentiful. Yard sales are a great place to get them for almost free. I cut them into peanut sized pieces, and toss a piece onto the top of the molten lead. The candle wax will start to melt, and then, because of it's lower flame point, will burst into flame. Be aware it will happen, and don't get startled. The paraffin will consume itself almost completely (no ash), so be sure to stir whirlpools aggressively as soon as you can. Skim off whatever grit that develops, and repeat as many times as you feel that you need to to get to as clean as you'd like. I like to flux with paraffin wax 4-5 times. By then, the metal is pretty darn clean by my fussy standards. (including the pot surfaces, which I have been scraping the whole time)......

7) When using your ladle to remove the lead from the smelting pot, push the ladle through the surface of the lead, and allow the ladle to "back fill" with only shiny metal. Even though you have done this immense amount of fluxing, you will always see some additional crud floating to the surface as you ladle, and you want to avoid introducing that into the ingots you are making. The back filling technique with the ladle is the best way to keep the grit out of the ingots you are making. When you get to a point where the grit really starts to be a nuisance, and it will...... do some more paraffin fluxing.........

8) Continue making ingots until you get down to that 1" or so of lead left in the pot, and stop. Or, if you have more to smelt, stop making ingots when you have a couple of inches of lead still in the pot. That will give you the good lead puddle for melting.

Notes: Some folks have used motor oil as a fluxing agent. I have used it in tests and find it smelly and full of carcinogens. It works OK, but I still prefer to use the candle or store bought paraffin wax. The store bought version is usually sold in the jam making supplies area of the store. Comes in a one pound package of four blocks, and is very pure, and translucent clear. It's more expensive than cheap used candles. I'm already saving money making my own boolits, and I feel no compulsion to go extra cheap on fluxing agents. I want/demand very highly clean lead to run through my guns. Don't be in a hurry when smelting. It's hard on the back, and hot on a summers day. I find that by pacing myself in a slower pace, I get better alloy because I am taking care to flux well. You cannot flux alloy too much.......... You just can't. The more, the better/cleaner the alloy will be. By constantly stirring, you will keep any tin and antimony in the mix. You can't really skim out those metals, nor do you want to. However, if you stop stirring aggressively, and perhaps have the heat too high, you will allow the tin and antimony to come out of solution with the lead, where it will float to the surface in it's typical yellow/gold and purple hues. Don't skim off the yellow/golds or the purples. Turn the heat down a bit, and stir those back into the lead.

My advice has been primarily relating to range lead because that's what you asked about. The same process is used when I smelt clip on wheel weights. However, it's especially important to add weights slowly to the molten puddle to avoid accidentally melting in any zinc to the pot. Zinc will float, but only if you have added a thin enough layer to allow them to float. If you bury zinc weights under 60 pounds of lead weights, and have the pot too hot, you will get zinc contamination. So, my advice for adding new material to the pot slowly and in thin layers holds true whether for range lead or for wheel weights.

I've touched on many of the points that others have made, but I don't think anyone else has covered it as completely, in one place as I have. My system isn't perfect, but it works really well for me. I get good clean alloy. And, I know my bores (barrels) will have longer lives from the extra trouble I take getting the clean alloy.

Perhaps this post/thread might make a good sticky. I'd be happy to amend my post should anyone think of anything additional idea that would improve my system even more. We have many great casters here. And their system works for them. I take no exception to any of that. However, in my quest for CLEAN alloy, my system gets me there."

btroj
01-23-2015, 10:03 PM
I melt it as is. No prewash.
Flux with lots of sawdust. Stir the holy heck out of it too. Scrape the sides and bottom of the pot well.

This is what I do and it has worked for over a ton of range scrap for me. I'm too lazy to prewash and wait for it to dry. Mine sits in buckets in the garage for at least 6 months before I smelt so it tends to be very dry when I smelt. I don't like even damp lead near the smelting operation.

duckey
01-23-2015, 10:15 PM
Fortunecookie45lc has a great video on YouTube where he smelts down a big haul of range scrap. Check it out. Yes watch out for unfired brass!

Gtek
01-23-2015, 10:23 PM
And do not forget all the SAFETY STUFF! Moisture can hide in jackets, under wax, smashed inside. The Tinsel Fairy can be a cruel Beach.

Shiloh
01-24-2015, 10:22 AM
I use a hose to clean the dirt and clods out of my screenings of range berm scrap. Be darn sure it is dry before adding to the smelting pot.

Shiloh

zuke
01-25-2015, 09:55 AM
Melt as is. The heat of the pot will sanitize it all. Pour into ingot's,stand back and wonder how much you can get at your next melt

Sgt Petro
02-05-2015, 09:37 PM
The post by Duke is what I do. I've processed about 3 tons of all manner or lead using the same method.
I never bother with pre-wash. Only time I ever rinsed was when I mined a berm in the rain...lol.

truckjohn
02-06-2015, 05:04 PM
I pick out as much obvious rocks and trash as I can ahead of time...

Be SURE to double-triple inspect for unfired 22's and squib cartridges....

I don't like to get a hose anywhere near my lead... I have had too many visits from the tinsel fairy and have scars on my arms and head to show for it....

Otherwise - melt it down and let it cook while molten with a LID ON IT. A metal trash can lid makes a good "Shield"...

That first melt - be extra-sure you double up on your PPE - wear your leathers, long sleeve shirt, long pants, shoes, a hat, safety glasses, and a bandana on your face, a makeshift "Rug" over your head and shoulders so nothing goes down your collar... There's nothing like hot lead popping out on you and running down your collar or into your eyes.....

Stir it lots and scoop off all the trash. Collect all the trash in a metal can and turn it in to your local recycler... Don't go toss it out in your back yard...

Thanks

62chevy
02-06-2015, 06:10 PM
Welcome to the forum Vel. Lots of good people and info on this site and a ton was left on this thread.

gwpercle
02-06-2015, 06:15 PM
Also read the experiences of unfired 22's finding their way into the pot!
The moral here is to pick up, look at, look inside any crevice, to make sure nothing goes into the pot except lead.
Make sure everything is dry too. Ice frozen inside or water trapped in a hole is just as dangerous
You don't want a visit from the " Tinsel Fairy"
Load safe,
And welcome to the forum!
Gary

JimmyTheDentist
02-06-2015, 07:46 PM
Ok This still never made a "Sticky" but it is the best:
A Quote from DukeinMaine ( Now Duke in Florida) I Quote:

1) I always leave the last inch of molten lead in the pot from the previous smelt . . . . "


i'm a novice but i've done most of this.

i'm still experimenting . . . Step #1 never even occurred to me. what a great idea!

thanks.

J the D

Sgt Petro
02-06-2015, 08:12 PM
Step #1 really saved me a bunch of time and propane!