I Need Some Bullet Seating Die Advice

[Treetop]

I haven't bought new bottleneck sizing dies in 30-40 years. I have Lyman P-A (precision alignment) dies for my .30 calibers and they work well with cast boolits, but are no longer produced.

I have recently acquired a Savage model 11 in .223 Remington and a NOE 55 gr. FN mold. Also, I have already bought a Redding size die, a Lyman "M" die and a Redding taper crimp die, so all I need now is a boolit friendly .223 Remington seating die.

So my question is:

Is there a particular brand of bullet seating die out there that is better suited to boolits than the other ones or are they all about the same? I'm sure there are no "Cowboy" seating dies available yet. :-P

What are you .223 cast shooters using? Thanks, Tt.

[CJR]

Treetop,

I'd recommend either Forster or Redding Benchrest Seating Dies. They use a sliding cartridge holder that holds the cartridge case precisely aligned as the bullet is seated. However, depending on what press you use you may still get some bullet runout. A Hornady Concentricity Gauge will measure the bullet runout and allow you to correct it at the same time. The Sinclair Concentricity Gauge just measures the bullet runout.

Best regards,

CJR

[Wayne S]

Just my $ 0.02, probably the best would be the Forster / Bonanza BR seater as it has a spring loaded collet that holds the case and bullet in alignment, 2nd would be the Hornady ,as they have the sliding collet, it's just not spring loaded.
One think I have been doing that almost elements run out is to start the bullet seating till it's about half way seated then rotate the case & bullet in the shell holder about 180 * then finish seating the bullet.

[runfiverun]

I rotate 2 times, for three handle runs total.
one to start the boolit, one to almost fully insert it, and the final one to seat everything fully.
this seems to make the most concentric ammo for me.
you have to pay attention to how far you seat each step and try to use the same amount each time, after a bit you can feel the distance the boolit is going in the handle.

[gwpercle]

I do the same thing as runfiverun, plus I make sure the boolit is started as straight as possible into the case as I can get it. If it goes in tilted, even just a little, it will not straighten itself out and will shave a little lead.
Starting straight and rotating during seating works best regardless of the brand of seating die used. All of mine are just standard dies, no Bench Rest or special seating dies.
Gary

[geargnasher]

FORSTER BENCHREST SEATER. You don't have to buy the micrometer version, but they're nice too. Regular BR seater is 50 bucks well spent.

Gear

[cbrick]

Cannot use the Redding Comp seater with boolits. The collar inside the die that aligns the boolit IS .223" and it will grab and pull the boolits back out. I use the Redding in my 357 match revolver but I size to .357" for the FA throats. If your boolits are ANY over nominal jacketed diameter the Redding will not work.

Rick

[Nueces]

I think the best option for boolits is the Hornady New Dimension sliding sleeve seating die. They're inexpensive. The sleeve inserts are simple parts that can be custom made on a small lathe. The originals can be polished out larger just as one would a boolit sizing die.

Oversized dies for the 30 calibers can be had in 32-20, 7.62x39 or 303 Brit.

[btroj]

FORSTER BENCHREST SEATER. You don't have to buy the micrometer version, but they're nice too. Regular BR seater is 50 bucks well spent.

Gear

This is what I turn to when I wan bullets seated straight.

[geargnasher]

I think the best option for boolits is the Hornady New Dimension sliding sleeve seating die. They're inexpensive. The sleeve inserts are simple parts that can be custom made on a small lathe. The originals can be polished out larger just as one would a boolit sizing die.

Oversized dies for the 30 calibers can be had in 32-20, 7.62x39 or 303 Brit.

I tried one of those and have to disagree. Mine was in .308 and the sliding sleeve only supported the case neck, not the case body. If there is any misalignment with the case body and seater die, as in you didn't get the case in the shellholder just exactly right, or the press has slight alignment problems, OR if the case neck is slightly crooked relative to the body due to using a non-supporting expander die, the end result will be the bullet/neck being wongo with the case body, which is not good for cast bullet accuracy. The Forster die fully supports the entire case BEFORE the bullet starts being seated. The whole assembly is held in snug alignment as the bullet is pressed into the neck.

Gear

[GabbyM]

+1 for the Forster bench rest seater die. I also have a Wilson hand die. That will accept a .225" bullet from the top end. I was a bit surprised when the .225" fit as the .224's seamed snug. But I can't speak for Wilsons nominal dimensions. I run the Forster BR Seater in my Dillon 550. With the theory it's floating chamber will stabilize the case. Since as all of us who've run a 550 know. Things shift around. It all seams to work.

Then my new 222 is being loaded with a standard RCBS FL set with added RCBS .224" expander die and Redding neck die. My Redding die sizes the neck down to an I.D. of .218". Sizes the neck almost to the shoulder. I've had other brands of neck dies that over worked the brass. Seams to work out as the 222 is running boolits great. I load all my 222 on a single stage press. I think the standard seat die is plenty good for this hunting 6 3/4 lb. rifle that will only see a bench to sight in scopes.

I allow the bullet to float up into the seat die rather than stuff it into the case neck.

[joesig]

What cbrick said also applies to the RCBS Competition dies. I bought spare bushings and reamed them.

[flyingrhino]

I'm using the Forster micrometer die. For bench rest accuracy It is the bomb.

[geargnasher]

What ever system you use, it's effectiveness is easy to check: Final runout of bullet, neck, and case body. If you have runout, find what part of your process is causing it and fix it. Don't forget to check the runout of fired brass or better yet a chamber/throat cast to make sure the gun is good to go.

Gear

[fatnhappy]

Be advised, depending on your specific die you might need to hone out a thou or two for boolits instead of bullets. I've run into this twice with hornady new dimension dies. This manifested itself by the loaded cartridges being a scooch tight in the sliding sleeve when fully seated. The extra bit of downward force retracting the cartridge would prematurely wear out the retention clip.

I agree with those that recommend the forster dies. I have a 2 forster bench rest seater dies and love them. They're worth every penny.

[wquiles]

Be advised, depending on your specific die you might need to hone out a thou or two for boolits instead of bullets. I've run into this twice with hornady new dimension dies.

+1

I put the sleeve on my lathe and took a "little" bit until the boolit was moving freely on my Hornady dies. Here for a cast 44Mag boolit:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/modifying44mag_dies/20141225_143525.jpg

http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/modifying44mag_dies/20141225_144045.jpg

[happy7]

I am going to answer a question that was not asked, but I think it is helpful to point out that it is difficult to seat lead boolits and not damage them, without expanding the case neck, as we do in straight wall cases.

So for sizing, I dispose of the expander ball and decapper ,which I find is the biggest culprit in introducing runout, and size, and then use a lee universal decapper and then a lee universal expander to expand the case neck mouth slightly to accept the lead boolit without shaving lead. Then I use a crimp die to remove the expansion of the case mouth and bring it back straight, or if desired, crimp.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

You fellows make me want more tools/dies !! :groner:

[tomme boy]

I can not use the Hornady rifle dies for cast. For one the necks seem too small and I end up swaging the bullets down as I seat them. Two the bullets seem to stick in the seater plug.

For right now, I am just using Lee dies. I live by by the factory. I am going to go up there and talk to them to see if they will do a die for me just for cast bullets. I also want to talk to them about doing die just for cast. I don't think it would be too hard for them to do runs on their dies that have a little more clearance in the neck and a little bit of a different plug for the seater.

[DR Owl Creek]

I tried one of those and have to disagree. Mine was in .308 and the sliding sleeve only supported the case neck, not the case body. If there is any misalignment with the case body and seater die, as in you didn't get the case in the shellholder just exactly right, or the press has slight alignment problems, OR if the case neck is slightly crooked relative to the body due to using a non-supporting expander die, the end result will be the bullet/neck being wongo with the case body, which is not good for cast bullet accuracy. The Forster die fully supports the entire case BEFORE the bullet starts being seated. The whole assembly is held in snug alignment as the bullet is pressed into the neck.

Gear

I've loaded 1000's of .308 Winchester rounds using either commercial or military brass for use in my Springfield Armory M1A "loaded package" rifle, which has a tight chamber. I use the both the Hornady Custom Grade New Dimension die set (item #044111), or the RCBS small base sizer (item #15531), depending on the brass I'm using. I generally use those dies in the Hornady Classic single stage press, with the Hornady #1 shell holder, and I've never had that problem. Something else about your set up could be causing the problem you're describing. Sometimes a small, seemingly insignificant item, like the brand of shell holder can make a big difference.

I really like the sliding alignment sleeves in the Hornady dies too. They have worked really well for me in keeping everything concentric, and the run-out has always been minimal to nonexistent. I also like that you can easily and inexpensively change out the seating stem heads on their dies with their micrometer seating stem head (item #044090), which I have done on all of my rifle dies. It makes getting precise OAL's really easy, even when the bullets lengths vary a lot. To see the micrometer seating head, go to: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/394708/hornady-microjust-seating-stem

Hornady also has different size expanders available for their sizing dies, or will make custom sizes too.

Dave

[Treetop]

+1

I put the sleeve on my lathe and took a "little" bit until the boolit was moving freely on my Hornady dies. Here for a cast 44Mag boolit:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/modifying44mag_dies/20141225_143525.jpg

http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/modifying44mag_dies/20141225_144045.jpg

wquiles, I really like those six jaw "Buck" chucks. They almost take the place of collets, IMO. What lathe are you using? I'm retiring in April after 38 years as a machinist/tool and die maker. I plan to buy a lathe and a vertical mill for use in my retirement years. Tt.

[Treetop]

Wow, thanks for all of the ideas and advice you all have given! castboolits is so different from other forums. Advice is freely given and taken without all of the bickering that's so prevalent on other boards. This is the only board that I gladly donate to every year because of the positive attitudes and the fact that I've learned so much here.

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that partially seats a boolit, then rotates the cartridge in the shell holder before final seating. I also use the same procedure when applying heavy roll crimps to my big bore revolver loads.

Once again, thanks to all who took the time to respond! Tt.

[geargnasher]

I've loaded 1000's of .308 Winchester rounds using either commercial or military brass for use in my Springfield Armory M1A "loaded package" rifle, which has a tight chamber. I use the both the Hornady Custom Grade New Dimension die set (item #044111), or the RCBS small base sizer (item #15531), depending on the brass I'm using. I generally use those dies in the Hornady Classic single stage press, with the Hornady #1 shell holder, and I've never had that problem. Something else about your set up could be causing the problem you're describing. Sometimes a small, seemingly insignificant item, like the brand of shell holder can make a big difference.

I really like the sliding alignment sleeves in the Hornady dies too. They have worked really well for me in keeping everything concentric, and the run-out has always been minimal to nonexistent. I also like that you can easily and inexpensively change out the seating stem heads on their dies with their micrometer seating stem head (item #044090), which I have done on all of my rifle dies. It makes getting precise OAL's really easy, even when the bullets lengths vary a lot. To see the micrometer seating head, go to: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/394708/hornady-microjust-seating-stem

Hornady also has different size expanders available for their sizing dies, or will make custom sizes too.

Dave

Thousands of rounds with cast bullets? I don't load jacketed stuff much at all anymore, so my remarks reflected my experience trying to use the Hornady CGND dies for cast bullets. I absolutely detest both pieces of the two-die set, the sizer crushes the necks down to .302" OD, for one thing. Only took two ruined cases for me to quit using that thing and go back to good old RCBS GMM neck/body dies. For jacketed bullets, the Hornady CGND dies might be just fine.

Gear

[fatnhappy]

+1

I put the sleeve on my lathe and took a "little" bit until the boolit was moving freely on my Hornady dies. Here for a cast 44Mag boolit:
http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/modifying44mag_dies/20141225_143525.jpg

http://m3coupe.com/Firearms/modifying44mag_dies/20141225_144045.jpg

Funny, one of the die sets I had trouble with was also a .44 magnum.

Not being as well equipped as you, I chucked the sleeve in my drill press and honed it out with 1000 grit Aluminum oxide paper wrapped around a dowel. It took less time than you'd think.

[Boolseye]

I use Lee. Have the same mold for my .223. I'm not a bench rest shooter, and it works plenty well for my needs.

[wquiles]

Funny, one of the die sets I had trouble with was also a .44 magnum.

Not being as well equipped as you, I chucked the sleeve in my drill press and honed it out with 1000 grit Aluminum oxide paper wrapped around a dowel. It took less time than you'd think.

I believe you. Before I had the lathe the wood dowel and sandpaper worked "very" well :)