Stupid Question Time

[histed]

I'm pretty new at casting and loading CB in a rifle. In October I loaded some Lee 309-170 FN over 8 grs of Unique and got very good accuracy. Long story, but, after have heart surgery, I just got around to cleaning the rifle this week and found lead in the barrel. Not much, but then I only shot about 30 rounds. My lube was 50/50 LLA/JPW and these were shot w/o gas checks. My bore slugged .3085 and my boolits were shot as cast at or near .310. All boolits were air cooled COWW + 1% 95/5. So the question is, do I need another lube? Or is there something else I missed along the way? FWIW, the rifle is a 94 Winchester. Thanks for the comments.

[ballistim]

Others more knowledgeable than myself will weigh in, but I'll start with a few suggestions. Bore condition needs to be smooth & clean as possible, I try to remove all copper fouling before shooting cast. Search for threads on slugging your barrel, & then measure the cast Boolits to compare with the slug from your barrel once cleaned. Should be at least .001 sized over bore size. Lube can make a difference, many here like Felix lube or Ben's Red although I have no experience here & use White Label lubes, I like BAC quite a bit myself. Now that you already have leading I can recommend using Chore Boy copper cleaning pads as well as bronze steel wool, threads can be found here on that as well. Gas checks work best for me in rifles & full power handgun loads, others do well with plain base & harder alloy. Best of luck to you in your efforts to shoot cast in your Winchester without leading.

[btroj]

First thing I would do is add a gas check

[armexman]

First thing I would have done, is clean the rifle with Ed's Red. Not trying to be heartless, but gentle reminder; before I went to the hospital.
No apologies.

[Scharfschuetze]

+1 to the gas check suggestion.

8 grains of Unique should be pushing your boolit at about 1,300 to 1,350 fps. I my experience, that's about the top end velocity wise for non gas checked boolits from COWWs. A harder alloy might help a bit and perhaps a filler might also help, but in the end, a gas check is probably your best solution for an easy fix.

I hope that your recovery is fast and trouble free. Range time should be a good stress reliever for you. When my uncle had a heart attack, he was put on blood thinning medication and I remember his Model 100 Winchester with full power loads leaving one heck of a bruise on his shoulder. Of course your light load should be no issue in that regard.

[bhn22]

One of the most common areas for leading to start is at the origins of the rifling. I'd clean the barrel really well, making certain to remove all traces of possible jacket fouling. Then perhaps a light treatment with JB Bore cleaner on a tight patch, following the directions on the JB container. Set the rifle in a warm place for a bit, then run a patch through with your tumble lube on it. Work the patch back and forth to assure complete coverage. Then run clean patches through until they come out clean. The goal I'm suggesting is to completely clean the barrel, then give it a light coating to eliminate bare metal contact with the bullet. I used Eds Red in my bores as a final step to coat the bare metal. I think your light leading will probably go away in fairly short order. I'm guessing it is some minor issue, since Ive seen barrels lead heavily after as few as 5-6 shots when something major is amiss.

[leadman]

Yes, add the gas check. If you ever want to go up in velocity water quenching or heat treating will help maintain the accuracy.

[prs]

The gas check and NRA 50:50 lube is a great starting point and later on you may want to try to stir off a batch of Felix Lube or try BAC. Once you are leading free, then go back to tumble mix if you wish. I am one of those nuts that advises removal of as much copper fouling as is possible. Another fairly recent anti-leading technique involves coating boolits with tough bake on finishes. Check out the "ALTERNATIVES" section on this site.

Almost forgot, if you are new to all of this, you may not realize how critical it is not to let the case mouth shave your boolits when you seat. The M dies are excellent in this regard. Any shaving will almost certainly lead to leading.

Best wishes for a quality post op healing.

Rooster

[geargnasher]

Use the right lube and you shouldn't have to clean the bore, ever.

+1 on gas checks. Or at least add some Dacron filler. And cut that COWW metal in half with pure lead and AC them, your bullets are too hard and too brittle for your load.

Gear

[longbow]

In my somewhat limited experience, "small" bores like .30 cal. seem to be very unforgiving with GC boolits shot barefoot at anything beyond extremely low velocity.

I had shot lots of .45-70 loaded with both BP and smokeless at velocities from low to max. Ruger #1 loads with little to no leading problems but then I tried cast boolits in my .308 and it was a whole new ballgame! I started out with the Lyman 31141 without gas check because I was living in a little isolated town up north and no ready access to much of anything. They were shot as cast at about 0.310"+ so not undersize but I could not get the gun to shoot those boolits well and without leading without a gas check. A neighbour had a part box of old Lyman gas checks he gave me and that solved it right now. I also had a limited powder selection but did try a few and from light to moderate loads using the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook with no success until a gas check was added.

Never had a problem with .44 mag. in rifle or handgun or with .45-70 in both Marlin and Siamese Mauser using PB boolits but that .308...! Same with my .303's ~ gas check or filler required for anything beyond very mild loads.

So, +1 on ad a gas check and that will likely solve your problem.

I will also note that I have had better success using PB designs than GC designs shot barefoot in my .30 cal.'s Not sure if the narrow base band above the GC shank is the issue but same diameter and weight with GC shank and no GC leads and accuracy is poor but a PB design works well, for me anyway, but again these are mild loads.

Longbow

[histed]

armexman - no offense taken. You're absolutely correct.
gear, you said use the right lube. At this point I need to pan or tumble lube everything. You've done a lot of work with lubes. Any suggestions?
Gas checks should be on the way. I also had no idea that air cooled WW would be too hard, but I do use a 50/50 mix for pistol bullets, so that should work OK. Thanks one and all for the advice and comments. I appreciate your time and experience.

[MtGun44]

Try NRA 50-50 as a starting point, there are many good lubes, and unfortunately, some real worthless
homebrews. Ben's Red is a good one, as is Felix's world famous lube. LBT soft blue has worked well
for me, too. GC will help, but may not be needed if the lube is improved and probably soften the alloy
a bit. I generally shoot GC boolits in rifles, although some have done fine without GCs.

Bill

[histed]

Thanks Bill. From checking out Ben's Red I'd guess that this is a job best done outside. Always something new to learn.

[Ben]

Please...........outdoors only ! !

Ben

[John Boy]

histed - your leading issue: a 50:50 mix of PURE Spirits of Turpentine and Marvel Mystery Oil. Soak bore with a patch and then bronze brush
The Lee bullet is a GC bullet - add the gas Check. Then shoot with your current lube & powder charge. You should be OK

[bangerjim]

Add a GC.

And consider powder coating. I PC all my cals and do not have any leading.....only clean barrels. B4 PC, I used 45/45/10 and did have some leading problems with some boolits and cals.

Now, a patch or two and the barrels are shiny & clean, even after 100+ rounds!

banger

[Blackwater]

If the leading doesn't accumulate or build up, I wouldn't worry about it IF you're getting good accuracy. Just MHO, but that's how I deal with it. Sometimes, we "moderns" over think things like this, and expect spotlessness where it just ain't likely to occur. If the loads are doing what you want, and the leading doesn't build up, forget it and go shooting, and have a great time. You just might want to clean the lead out before shooting jacketed in the gun, and vice versa when going from jacketed to cast. Before shooting cast after shooting jacketed, I like to run a patch with a light coating of lube down the barrel, and follow with a clean patch to remove the excess. I find little to complain of when doing this.

[Certaindeaf]

First thing I would do is add a gas check
Eight grains of Unique is probably going what, 800fps? They don't gas check .22lr and those are pure lead going easy 1200. so no
and it's a heeled bullet