Noob Alloy mix question

[noob-leader]

Hi all, new to the site and was referred here from another site(national gun forum) with my question. First a little background. I started casting about a year ago just doing some BP balls and bullets with pure lead. Then i acquired some hard lead and began casting for my 9mm and 45 acp but I'm getting low on the hard lead. Right now i have a bunch of lead, maybe 100-150 lbs plus about 20 lbs of solder i made into bars(not sure of the tin content though). I also have a little pewter, maybe a pound or so but i think i have access to more. Anyway my question. I just ordered 2- 5lb bars of super hard lead(70% lead-30% antimony) from rotometals and i need an estimate on how much lead and tin to add per bar so i can make boolits that will travel in the 800-1200 fps range. This will be my first time actually making an alloy mix. Any help will be appreciated!

[RickinTN]

If your are trying to create a 3% antimony alloy, which should be pretty good for your application I think, then you will want a mix of 9 to 1 (9 parts pure, 1 part super hard). So, for every 9 pounds of your pure add 1 pound of super hard. Your 45 bullets won't need an alloy this hard but your 9mm may. As far as adding tin....1% to 2% should do it. 1% tin will be roughly 1.6 ounces of tin per 10 pounds of alloy. Note that this will be 1.6 ounces of tin, not 1.6 ounces of solder. You would really need to know the content of your solder for any accuracy. I would also suggest that in the future if you have roll solder to leave it on the roll and not melt it into bars. It is much easier to meter out and weight off the roll than it is in bars.
Good Luck,
Rick

[Tatume]

Hello, and welcome aboard.

Look in the Lead and lead alloy's forum (three down from this one), and then look at the lead alloy calculators (sticky No. 3).

I like 2/3/95 tin/antimony/lead for most of my bullets.

Take care, Tom

[Yodogsandman]

Some additional info...

http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm

[noob-leader]

Thanks guys. Looks like i got some reading for tonight. The solder i got was drippings from a factory. It was essentially big globs that i melted into 1/2 and 1lb bars.

[Tatume]

I just ordered 2- 5 lb bars of super hard lead (70% lead-30% antimony) from rotometals and i need an estimate on how much lead and tin to add per bar so i can make boolits that will travel in the 800-1200 fps range.

Assuming your solder is 50/50, mix two pounds of solder, one five-pound bar of your Rotometals super hard, and 43 pounds of lead. You will have 50 pounds of 2/3/95 tin/antimony/lead alloy, with a hardness of about 12 BHN. The tin is very important.

[LAGS]

@ Noob Leader
If you are getting the solder from a machine at a factory, ?
Just ask to see the MSDS safety sheets, and it will give you the alloy content, Especially if it is any kind of Lead Bearing Solder.
But most companies have go away from any solder that has lead in it.
They are mostly almost Pure Antimony and a little Tin. like a 95 / 5 lead free soft solder

[Tatume]

@ Noob Leader
If you are getting the solder from a machine at a factory, ?
Just ask to see the MSDS safety sheets, and it will give you the alloy content, Especially if it is any kind of Lead Bearing Solder.
But most companies have go away from any solder that has lead in it.
They are mostly almost Pure Antimony and a little Tin. like a 95 / 5 lead free soft solder

I think you mean mostly tin.

[bangerjim]

Yes. Download the FREE alloy calculator and all questions will be answered for you!
banger

[popper]

Use the hard alloy for the 9mm, 45 shouldn't need it. Anything above 2% SB can be heat treated (WD) to take the pressure better. Try it without the tin, add only if needed.

[LAGS]

Yep, My Bad, I typed it backwards.
95% tin to 5% antimony.
But the stuff is great for adding to boolit lead, Especially if you get it for FREE.
I pick up old solder rolls on my construction sites, that have a wind or two still left on them when the plumber is throwing them away.
But if you have to buy it buy the roll, it can be expensive, and is cheaper in the long run to order pure tin from a smelter and pay the shipping.

[Tatume]

The OP appears to have plenty already, but in my opinion the cheapest way to buy solder is to get it here, in the Swappin & Sellin forum.

[noob-leader]

@ Noob Leader
If you are getting the solder from a machine at a factory, ?
Just ask to see the MSDS safety sheets, and it will give you the alloy content, Especially if it is any kind of Lead Bearing Solder.
But most companies have go away from any solder that has lead in it.
They are mostly almost Pure Antimony and a little Tin. like a 95 / 5 lead free soft solder

A buddy of mine got it for me from another friend who works at a scrap yard. I put the word out i wanted some free lead and that's what i got along with some lead pipe and other oddball stuff. No way to track down the content. I'll try the mix listed above and make a 50lb batch, cast some boolits and see what the hardness yields and if they fill out nicely and remelt them if i have too. The one good thing about casting is the only cost in your mistakes is time and some propane.

[RogerDat]

A buddy of mine got it for me from another friend who works at a scrap yard. I put the word out i wanted some free lead and that's what i got along with some lead pipe and other oddball stuff. No way to track down the content. I'll try the mix listed above and make a 50lb batch, cast some boolits and see what the hardness yields and if they fill out nicely and remelt them if i have too. The one good thing about casting is the only cost in your mistakes is time and some propane.

The scrap yard will have a gun to determine metal alloy composition, since you melted the solder into a big batch you get them to gun one bar and all the others will be close to the same. If it is not a standard solder ratio the lead alloy calculator has two lines at the bottom for you to provide custom alloys. You know if you wanted to be even more precise in your mixing you could ask the scrap yard to gun an ingot or bullet from your main batch of lead and enter its composition as a custom alloy.

Then it is just a matter of playing with the weights of your alloys and hardball in the alloy calculator to get a good Pb/Sb/Sn alloy in the results line of the calculator. Calculator even provides a good approximation of the BHN of that mix.

Yep "do overs" are great. Unlike metal and wood working where more than once I have been know to declare "I cut this three times and it's still to damn short!"

[noob-leader]

Haha I'm a wood worker too and i know all the things you are supposed to do, measure twice cut once, creep up on your cut etc yet i still have that short board problem too. Not sure if our local scrap yard has the gun your talking about. I have been scrapping for years and never heard of it but that don't mean anything. I have a bunch of copper, aluminum and motors to bring back soon that i was going to trade for lead so I'll ask about that. Thanks for all the help!

[prs]

I have yet to find plumbing lead free solder listing antimony as a component. Antimony, I have been told, makes solder less aggressive about bonding with copper; why would it be in there?

I suggest an alloy composed by weight to be 96:2:2 for the speed range specified. If the 9mm rounds are to be hot, then Lyman #2 will serve beautifully and is 90:5:5. Best harmony is usually found in keeping the tin and antimony in equal amounts by weight. 87# if your pure lead plus 10# of super hard plus 3# of tin would give you a wonderful all purpose alloy that you could put into ingots and almost as rich as Lyman #2, that 94:3:3 casts very easily and can be air cooled or chilled. Malleable and tough.

prs