Asking for 7mm-08 cast boolit help

[toddrod]

Well, hunting season is about over for my son and I down here in South Louisiana and it has been a success. I have shot 2 deer with the rifles we bought during the summer and my son has had the chance to shoot at 6 deer but unfortunately he missed all 6 times due to the ranges the deer were at. Part of him missing is that he did not get much trigger time on his rifle for many different reasons. What I am wanting to do now is find a good cast bullet for his gun so that I get him on the trigger plenty this summer. 1 member (whom I do not remember) sent me some rounds loaded with a flat tip lead bullet that would not chamber in either of my 2 rifles and when I seated the bullets deep enough to chamber, the bullet just feel in the case. So I would like some other recommendations for a cast bullet mold and below is what I can do with it.

Caliber 7mm-08
Lube - I have a Star luber and I also coat my pistol bullets with Red Copper Hytek coating.
Powders - in my area I can get IMR 4895, Imr 4350 and H380 routinely. I have all 3 on hand. There is no Accurate or Allaint powders to be seen in my area. I also have Ramshot Sillouhette, 231 and Titegroup available.

[ballistim]

I have a Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08 and have never had acceptable accuracy with any load combination tried with jacketed, possibly due to an extremely short throat. I've considered having it re-throated & using cast. Here's what I considered;

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/12/e557efff532731c9e8a378ac1198671f.jpg

[dh2]

for my son's youth rifle I have a small ring Mauser in 7x57mm it like many military rifles of it's day the throat is cut on the large side. I started using a Lyman mold 287641 which is a 160gr silhouette boolit it worked ok , but it is very much a long nose bore riding boolit. I have started casting a Lyman 287346 which is a 135gr RN it is a not shorter no the nose and for entree level young shooter I think it will do very well.

[bobthenailer]

I was going to try cast from my grandsons 7/08 but the throat was to short for the RCBS 145gr sil and Saeco#071- 160gr boolets.

[Ben]

I realize that you're asking about cast in the 7 - 08.

However my 7 mm rifle is a Ruger 7 X 57 mm. As to ballistics , the 7 - 08 and the 7 X 57 are VERY similar. Mild low pressure loads for one will often times work in the other one well.

My 7X57 is a nail driver with the Lee, 132 gr. ( sometimes called the Soup Can Cast bullet ). Sized .2863 ", gas checks are my own .014" Amerimax aluminum checks, loaded with 10.0 grs. of Alliant Unique.

A lot of people say there is something magical about 10.0 grs. of Unique. Maybe they are right ...... ? ?

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/004_zpsc381de43.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/004_zpsc381de43.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/001-1_zps6452f6a9.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/001-1_zps6452f6a9.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/004-1_zps15b4b8cd.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/004-1_zps15b4b8cd.jpg.html)

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/012_zps44d61087.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/012_zps44d61087.jpg.html)

Soup can's below that are lubed with Ben's Red and then rolled in Ben's Liquid Lube :

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/006_zps2a39f430.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/006_zps2a39f430.jpg.html)

Can you tell that I like this cast bullet ?

http://i1155.photobucket.com/albums/p545/Ben35049/005_zpsd64ebf2b.jpg (http://s1155.photobucket.com/user/Ben35049/media/005_zpsd64ebf2b.jpg.html)

I can't make any comments about the Hy-tech coatings in the 7 mm as I have no experience with that. This load ( if it would work well in your 7 mm-08 ) would give your son the needed trigger time he needs right now.

Ben

[kevmc]

How's the 7mm soupcan work on deer??

[Wayne Smith]

How's the 7mm soupcan work on deer??

If you hit in the boiler room you will have a dead deer, it is as simple as that. Hit elsewhere and you may not. Course, a hit elsewhere with my 405 Win. may not end up with a dead deer, either!

[dodgyrog]

6 shots - 6 misses!!!!!

[gwpercle]

They don't look like soup cans, why the name? Or did a man named John Soupcan design it ?

[toddrod]

6 shots - 6 misses!!!!!

A 9 yr old - little trigger time - deer at 150-250yds = misses. Funny thing is he looks at me after every shot fired and all I can tell him is the load another round and keep shooting.

[dodgyrog]

A 9 yr old - little trigger time - deer at 150-250yds = misses. Funny thing is he looks at me after every shoot fired and all I can tell him is the load another round and keep shooting.
Load him up a load of ammo and get him some range time.

[dondiego]

I really hope that they WERE misses!

[toddrod]

I really hope that they WERE misses!

When the deer just stand there looking and then slowly walk back into the woods I guarantee they were misses.

[toddrod]

Load him up a load of ammo and get him some range time.

I have 200 Sierra 120g prohunter bullets and plenty of 4895 to make reduced loads for him. After that I will start casting for his gun.

[Nrut]

A 9 yr old - little trigger time - deer at 150-250yds = misses. Funny thing is he looks at me after every shot fired and all I can tell him is the load another round and keep shooting.
That's appalling!
I could say a lot more about how you are teaching your son to hunt, but would be banned in 2 seconds flat!

[toddrod]

I do not understand what is appalling? It was clean misses. No deer were injured. I watch every shot he made and he closed his eyes right before he pulled the trigger. Easy enough fix with more practice. He still enjoyed the hunts.

[waksupi]

I have seen times when deer and elk have taken good hits with cast bullets, with absolutely no reaction. Some would eventually fall where they were, others would wander off a few dozen yards and die. Taking any shot at game, and not going to absolutely check to see if it was a miss is irresponsible, and teaching poor habits to a new hunter. Lots of jacketed bullet shooters also expect to see an animal drop immediately, which does not always happen.
His shots should be limited to a range that he has proven he can shoot at responsibly, plus a lot more trigger time. An air gun may help for off season practice.

I am also appalled at this.

[toddrod]

Gentlemen, where we hunt at is in the middle of the swamp. These deer are moving across water covered pipelines. The bullet impact on the water was clearly visible to the right, or left of the deer for each shot fired.

For the off season the above mentioned loads as well as his 22 rifle will be used for more practice.

[garandsrus]

Midsouth has this mold in stock in their special order section.

[Ben]

An ethical hunter that is 9, 19, 29, or 59 years of age should only take shots on game animals where there is a VERY HIGH probability of a clean, quick kill with one shot.

A 9 yr. old shooting 150 - 250 yards at deer who is obviously questionable with his current shooting skills ( 6 rounds fired - 6 misses ), you draw your own conclusions on all this...............


Ben

[michiganmike]

Here is a 7mm mould that I highly recommend from NOE:



http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/286407150GrFNGC.jpg (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/286407150GrFNGC.jpg)
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/286407150Gr.FN4cavityGC%20001.JPG (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/286407150Gr.FN4cavityGC%20001.JPG)

[marshall623]

The RCBS 145 wont chamber in my 7-08 Striker without being nose sized on the bore riding section , but the lyman 160 sil. # 287641's will chamber just fine sized & lubed as normal. The soup cans should work as well as the Lee 130's. I can't seat any of these out, they are seated with the checks below the neck for the bolt to close .

[gwpercle]

I just gotta know! Why is it called a Soup Can????
Gary

[35Whelen]

Called the soup can, cuz it looks like the old Campbells soup can with all those driving bands would be my guess.

[Hamish]

I'm pretty partial to this one:

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=29_189&products_id=1246&osCsid=gg5nv38if09bchiqkp7dp0f2h5

The 150 gr. Hunter is another dandy:

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=29_191&products_id=2731&osCsid=gg5nv38if09bchiqkp7dp0f2h5

I have read of many, many deer killed on this forum by the Soup Can,,,,,

[mrbill2]

Buy the boy a 22 so he learns to shoot with out closing his eyes, that might be a place to start !
Just my 2 cents.

[gloob]

After first wild miss, go home and figure out what's wrong. Except in this case you already know the problem at least includes complete lack of ocular input. So.. if he's having fun, load him up with blanks, lol. What were u going to do after he finally winged a deer? Would that have been more fun or less fun?

I agree this is terrible sportsmanship, and it's all the worse that someone would teach this to a 9 yr old. If he were already grown up and irresponsible, it wouldn't be as bad.

[MarkP]

The NOE 288-132 Thor shoots well in my Rem M SEVEN FS (18.8" bbl 7-08) so does the 7mm Soupcan (available at Mid South Shooters Supply) however I prefer the NOE, very limited experience with the LEE 288-130 RN but would assume it would provide decent results in a 7-08 since it did well in a 7x57 mm; RL-7, RL-15, 2400, MR-2000, RedDot, 7625, 4227. FYI - My NOE mold has both PB and Gas check cavities.I promised my daughter when she was 7-1/2 to 8 yrs old I would take her deer hunting when she could consistency hit water filled bottles (1/2l, 1l, & 2 l bottles) that I placed at various ranges from 70 to 175 yds. We started on paper at 75 yds, Kimber 84 Mont in 243 loaded with RCBS gr 244-95 RN and NOE 245-75 FN with Trailboss 80% full case. After she was shooting decent groups at 75 yds from a bench we switched to shooting at water filled plastic bottles using a bi-pod from sitting and knelling positions. I switched to 65 gr V-Max's for a more dramatic effect, only issue with that I was hoping she would not pick up bad habits by picking up head to look at the explosion. I also explained trajectory and hold over points had her shoot at paper to show her how the bullet will drop over distance.For hunting rounds I sighted the rifle in when she was not around, she went hunting for her fist time at age 9, she endured very cold weather the (5) times we sent out. We saw (2) deer but passed on shooting. The next year when she was (10) she got her first deer (decent first buck), first night out 15 minutes after sunset with 15 minutes left of legal shooting hours. I reminded her that is it usually not that easy and to remember the previous year. She is (12) now and is hooked on hunting, we went out no less than 15 times this year firearm season and Muzzlerloader season. She did get a doe this year but we passed on several opportunities, mainly due to safety concerns, one was a nice buck that would score in 140 /150 range. Deer standing near hilltop and or uncertain of background. I reassured her I would take her out during ML season if she did not get one during rifle season, she was kind of bummed out since her younger brother who is not too much into hunting got one the 2 day of season.My Son (10 yrs old) got his first deer this year with a 350 Rem Mag, he is more of a shooter than a hunter. He got his deer (large doe) second night out, his sister spotted the group of deer coming but they were on his side so he got the shot. He is much less concerned about recoil as compared to my daughter but I still am carful what he shoots when practicing so he does not pick up a bad habit. He is an usually good shot with a J-frame M-60 revolver, he shoots it better than his 22 rifle and can out-shot both Grandpa's. He does not have the same kind of trigger time as his sister, he is quicker likes to shoot several rounds in a session where she is very slow and meticulous. However he can hit 5" lolly-pops at 225 yds with decent consistency using a scoped Rem 700 V in 223 with bi-pod. My Son has a thin solid build 5' tall and 90 lbs daughter is athletic build 5' 2 or 3" ish and 105 lbs. Daughter's rifle has a shorter stock the rifle my Son used it a full length stock. The rifle he used has a 1-3x scope with a generous eye relief, her's has a 2.5 - 8x with the typical 3-1/2" of eye relief. I would have your Son practice shooting from various shooting positions using lower velocity cast loads for less noise and recoil; Trailboss is great for this application, yes other powders will work and are more economical but you have an established safe starting point.Whenever my kids hear a Bob Segar song they say it re-minds them of being on our land shooting; I love it when they tell me that. Hopefully years down the road they will hear a song and remember their Daddy and shooting with him.Good Luck in your endeavor's with your Son.

[michiganmike]

I have the 7mm-08 and compiled the following awhile ago. It's posted here on site somewhere:

I bought the Lee Classic Powder Measure (LCPM) and like using it. I get consistent, accurate weights such as others have reported.

Using the Reduced Load Calculator and the directions provided with the LCPM I developed loads for my 7mm-08 and my 338 Federal. The 7mm is a Ruger Hawkeye and the 338 is a Savage Model 11.

The two moulds for which the the loads were developed are the Lyman 150 grain round nose, gas check; and the Lee 220 grain. Both give good accuracy in their respective rifles. My alloy is WW. I double with Ben's Liquid Lube. Each round is calculated for 1800, 1900 and 2000 fps.

The directions provided with the measure recommend that their figures are estimates only and that one should develop their own data using the powder they have, rather than rely on their data. Even doing that, I found that I still had to find tune the specific CC setting for each load. I did not include the VMD as that will vary slightly with your powder.

The powders used are those recommended by the Lyman Cast Bullet which I had on hand.

Here is the data I developed, 7mm first. I hope you find this helpful.

Do your homework, double check my figures and compare with a reliable manual, such as Lymans. I typically shoot in the 1800 to 1900 fps range. And I note for example that my top load for 4198 is higher than the top load recommended by Lymans. I double checked all of my calculations. Nevertheless,Exercise caution




POWDER
VMD
Charge Wt.
Vol. (CC)
1800 fps
1900 fps
2000 fps


SR 4759

22.2
2.4
X




“

24.0
2.58

X



“

25.6
2.7


X











A 5744

25.6
2.28
X




“

27.4
2.43

X



“

29.2
2.57


X











IMR 4227

24.8
2.39
X




“

26.5
2.53

X
X


“

28.2
2.65














H 4198

25.3
2.31
X




“

27.1
2.45

X



“

28.9
2.56


X











BLC (2)

32.3
2.34
X




“

34.6
2.51

X



“

36.9
2.68


X











H 335

29.0
2.06
X






31.0
2.2

X





33.1
2.35


X











H 4895

29.9
2.18
X






32.0
2.33

X





34.1
2.48


X











R 15

32.3
2.65
X






34.6
2.77

X





36.9
2.95


X











H 322

28.5
2.24
X






30.5
2.40

X





32.5
2.56


X







POWDER
VMD
Charge Wt.
Vol. (CC)
1800 fps
1900 fps
2000 fps


SR 4759

18.6
2.11
X




“

19.9
2.22

X



“

21.3
2.35


X











A 5744

20.5
1.93
X




“

21.9
2.04

X



“

23.3
2.13


X











IMR 4227

20.0
2.01
X




“

21.4
2.12

X
X


“

22.2
2.19














IMR 4198

20.0
1.94
X




“

21.4
2.02

X



“

22.8
2.12


X











IMR 4895

25.1
2.29
X




“

26.8
2.41

X



“

28.6
2.54


X

[runfiverun]

well so far we have addressed everything but the boolit fit.
the only way your going to know why nothing fit's is because we have measured nothing.

first step is to do a pound casting so you know what you are looking for.
then proceed to look for the proper dimensions in a mold.
[if we could talk Tom into cutting 7mm molds this would be a lot easier, since one would already be in his catalogue]
but I'm gonna bet this is a simple problem and is also a common one with the 7-08 rifles.
[at least the ones I have looked at]
first.
your 280+ nose won't slide into the rifling and you need a nose sizer from noe.
fix that and I bet the RCBS 145gr silhouette will shoot well, as would the 7mm hunter from NOE
second.
99% of the 7mm molds out there are geared towards the various 7 mauser throats.
and come in shapes geared towards new rifles, to those shot nearly out, and the ones that were made with a long drill bit and a file for the central American troops.
and your short case neck and tight dimensions won't chamber them without 70% of the boolit in the case.

but you won't know any of that or even what you should be looking for or doing by guessing.

[michiganmike]

Gentlemen, where we hunt at is in the middle of the swamp. These deer are moving across water covered pipelines. The bullet impact on the water was clearly visible to the right, or left of the deer for each shot fired.

For the off season the above mentioned loads as well as his 22 rifle will be used for more practice.
I
Enough already! Read what the boy's father is telling you. I'm used to this type of self righteous shaming on Facebook. Not here.

[BK7saum]

I can possibly understand not looking for blood/sign of a hit when impacts were spotted on the water and the deer showed no sign of being hit. That may be justified in this instance IMO. However, I cannot imagine letting a child/new hunter shoot 6 times at a game animal at distances they have not shown they are proficient marksman at. And if any of the water impacts were beyond the deer, that doesn't guarantee the bullet didn't hit the deer first and deflect.

I don't consider it self-righteous shaming, but a matter of ethics. His manner of hunting / teaching a child to hunt is so far out of line with most people's ethics here that it drew criticism. Every hunters ethics example/hunter safety course/etc that I've attended or helped with is contradictory to what he's allow his son to do.

As eluded to earlier, I wonder how long or far he would have looked for a wounded animal if it were hit in the leg, gut, jaw and ran off. Is he legal in what he's doing? I guess so, but I don't consider it ethical by my standards.

[michiganmike]

RCBS sells, or once sold an old Lyman 7mm mould. It is a Loverin design, 150 gr. It casts 145-146 with WW. My Ruger 7mm-08 absolutely loves it. It's so consistently accurate it almost gets boring shooting it at the range. Great design, great bullet. Here is a picture of the little beauty.185514