Recommended CB for .357 Magnum

[BrassFerret]

Howdy all!

I have just joined this forum and would like to introduce myself before I ask questions (I do not see any other place to do it...so here goes...)

I live in South Africa and am very interested in the outdoors, hunting, reloading and casting bullets (in no particular order...). I participate in IPSC, and am planning to hunt my first animal with my newly acquired Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Magnum (a lifelong dream!!)

I would like a bit of advice from all of you guys regarding cast bullets for hunting in this revolver. We have one powder available here to load the .357 Mag to 'full' potential, S265 which is very similar to IMR4227. The most common source of alloy is Wheel-weights, but these are getting hard to find. I have been considering getting foundry lead at a steep price (94 % Lead and 6% Antimony). My choice of mold would be from Accurate Molds (Tom). I have molds for the .45 ACP 201gr SWC & 230gr RN, 9mmP 120gr RN & 124gr TCP , .38/.357 170gr Lyman SWC. I feel something heavier would be better suited for hunting here. I plan to hunt Impala, Blesuck, Fallow deer, Warthog (small to small-medium game)

Then I want to get a Ruger Super Blackhawk in .44 Mag...

Thanks in advance for the advice!!

Cheers,

BrassFerret

[dondiego]

Welcome aboard BrassFerret! I prefer any of the 150 to 160 grain Keith style semiwadcutters that all mold manufacturers carry. Size to .358 to start and work from there. Good luck and good shooting.

[BrassFerret]

Thanks dondiego

I have a .357 sizing die, will go and look for something larger...

[John Allen]

Hello, welcome. My favorite is the 158 grain keith. It can be loaded down to a plinker load or pushed hard if you get the gas check version. It is also great for hunting.

[AggieEE]

I haven't hunted with it yet but Mehec's, MP Molds, 358640 cast nice and accuracy seems good. I haven't tried to find THE load for it yet but sometime. I haven't use Accurate molds but based on the other members here that would also be a good choice as well as NOE. I would suggest something in the 158 - 180 gr weight catagory and again based on the members comments a good sized metplate on the nose. Then practice, practice and practice some more. Yes, I need to heed my own advice but time and money. Good luck and good hunting.

[John Allen]

Brassferret, you definetly want at least a 358 to 359 sizing die. Do some google searches on the site and you will find all kinds of stuff.

[dondiego]

You could try the 0.357 die and see what happens. You can also hone it out to .358 pretty easily using a spilt wooden dowel and some sand paper.

[fecmech]

The Lyman 170 gr SWC(I'm guessing 358429)I believe will shoot through any of the animals you mentioned with the possible exception of the Warthog and it may work just fine there also. Load it up around 1200 fps and give it a try.

[dragon813gt]

I haven't hunted with it yet but Mehec's, MP Molds, 358640

The correct mold number is 359640. The 358640 is a lightweight bullet for 9mm Luger and Mak. All I really use is the 359640 in my 357 revolvers and rifles. It's extremely accurate in everything I've shot it in. Mihec just ran this mold so he might have some over runs left.

[wlc]

I also have the 359640 from MiHec. Nice mold and bullets.

[ballistim]

Slug your barrel before you decide on a mold to find out what will work best in your gun, i.e. a gun slugged at .357 should be at least .358, never had a problem at .359 yet in a .357 bbl.

[sghart3578]

I cast and shoot the Lee 358-158 RF in all of my Smith and Wesson revolvers and my Marlin 1894CS. It drops at .359" with WW alloy. I size it at .358" and tumble lube for my S&W's and I lube and load "as cast" for my Marlin.

Shoots great with multiple powders.

[fredj338]

Are they now allowing you more than one handgun? last time I was there, that was the law but for people willing to jump through some significant hoops.
Congrats on the new RBH. I would stick with the 170gr LSWC you now have. Push it along 1250fps +, it won't stay inside any of those antelope species. A heavier bullet will only take up more case cap for a bulky powder like 4227. IF you just have to have a heavier bullet, Tom's 36-185F offers a wider meplate than a SWC.
I have a Ruger Bisley Hunter, one of my fav for hunting. I run my cast lead cup points. It wont stay inside a deer size animal.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/44-272.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/44-272.jpg.html)

[texassako]

I agree with the posts above with trying the 170 gr SWC first and see how it does. If you don't like it, then you can use the experience to help determine what mold might work better.

[Beerd]

BrassFerret,
Welcome to Castboolits!

Like almost everyone else has said, the 170 grain "Keith" semi-wadcutter is the classic 357 mag bullet.
Run with it first in your Blackhawk and you may not feel the need for anything else.
Good luck with your hunting.
..

[jeepyj]

Thanks dondiego

I have a .357 sizing die, will go and look for something larger...

If your Blackhawk is like mine it likes 358 sizer. Mine will shoot an occasional key hole with anything less. It won't hurt to try. Just keep an eye out for barrel leading and keyholes.
Jeepyj

[pworley1]

My 357 Blackhawk like .359 bullets and my 44 super Blackhawk likes .430 bullets. Any of the Keith bullets should work fine with both.

[GP100man]

When I hunt with my GPs 2 boolits come to mind the 358429 or the NOE 360-180 rnfp .

Either 1 of these boolit at 1200fps will show the full potential of the 357 Magnum cartridges ability to punch holes in game.

But with 4227 speed powder ya may not reach 1200fps with the 180 gr. rnfps.

[jmort]

Tom at Accurate designed this 200 grain bullet for my .357 Blackhawk ( I have the TL design):

http://www.accuratemolds.com/img/bullets/detail/36-200RT-D.png

http://www.accuratemolds.com/img/bullets/detail/36-200R-D.png

[BrassFerret]

Thanks guys!

Please keep the good advice coming, it is appreciated very much! I am very new to handgun hunting (zero on experience). I have done a fair amount of rifle hunting all over the country and my choice has always been heavy bullets. This has changed somewhat with these monometal bullets!

I will look for a .358 sizing die, they are very thin on the ground here but I am sure it can be found with some effort.

Just out of interest. My RHB is a convertible model, .357 Magnum/9mmP. I think it was made inn 1976/77 judging by its serial number which starts with 33-XXXXXX. It is a 'New Model' and is impressively accurate!! I have only put about a 100 rounds through it to date and am very impressed.

Sellier & Bellot 158 grn JSP factory ammo achieves 1250 fps out of my 6.5 inch barrel. I have managed 1200 fps with our Frontier CMJ 180 grain bullets with one group of 1 inch at 25 meters (only one!). My Std deviations were 6 fps with the accurate load. Maybe this should be for another thread?

Thanks again for the advice! I guess I could just buy 180gr Hornady XTP's and use those...but I will get more out of my hunt if I put more into it and this includeds making my own bullets. Casting is great fun, new to it as well and have tons to learn...!!!

[Bigslug]

You're already locked on with Accurate Molds - no argument there. I'd be looking at: 36-158V, 36-160H, and 36-162V . . . but I REALLY like the look of the 36-165M. Light enough to drive fast, heavy enough to penetrate deep, wide enough to make a decent splat, and it's got a very beefy front driving band - should be a good grouper. Or the 165MG if gas checks are your thing.

[jmort]

"I feel something heavier would be better suited for hunting here. I plan to hunt Impala, Blesuck, Fallow deer, Warthog (small to small-medium game)"

I agree. I would go 180 plus. The penetration will be worth it. The 1 in 16 twist will stabilize the heavier bullets and the cylinder is more than long enough. I believe you can go with a .395 nose and still have .010 left over for bullet creep from your brass. With your 6" barrel you will get good velocity.

[bobthenailer]

180gr WFN or LFN configuration with a max nose to crimp length to maximize your handguns cylinders length. with about .020 less for wiggle room. in case the bullet should jump crimp and tie up the cyl rotation

[robg]

heavy boolit 180g going slower might not need a gas check ,makes things cheaper ,just lube lla shoot as cast saves time if they shoot well your laughing.

[EDK]

I have shifted to round nose/flat point designs because I also shoot lever action rifles. The NOE 360-180-WFN is a current favorite. MIHEC 359640 is similar.
BUT if you are primarily a revolver shooter, look up LYMAN 358627 and various clones from LEE or NOE(?) Glenn Fryxell, the man on cast boolits, did a write up at lasc.net (?) entitled a bullet for all seasons on this excellent design. Only problem is a 200 grain+ eats your lead supply a little quicker.

LYMAN 429640 or MIHEC 434640 for the Super Blackhawk and my Marlin Cowboys.

[youngmman]

LBT 155 Gr WFN with 9.7grns of Blue Dot for the .357

[BrassFerret]

Hey Guys
Thanks for the responses...keep em coming please! I have learnt so much going through this forum! Its awesome!

I have just been looking at NOE molds...impressive! I could have as many molds as my wife has shoes! I wonder if there is a point when a handgun hunter begins to get diminishing returns as he trades off velocity for bullet weight? I have read about J.D. Jones and SSK with the heavy for caliber bullets and there has to be a lot of merit in this...

An 'all-round' bullet weight would be great and for me with my limited (very) knowledge on this subject a bullit weighing between 180 and 200 grains seems to be the best of both worlds...

The next trick for me is to get a steady source of lead/alloy.

With regards to motion lotion, a.k.a propellant. The slowest propellant we have here in SA for the magnum cartridges is S265 it is an extruded propellant similar to IMR4227, H110, H4227. The next fastest is S221, this is a ball type propellant with a dense loading density. It is similar in burn rate to AA#7 and AA#5 and Hodgdons Longshot Ball. Next up is MP200, a flake type propellant similar to Unique, HS6 and Winchester WAP. Not much to play with, but they do work very well!!

I have just loaded up some 165 grn bullets from my Lyman 170 SWC mold, they are pretty hard and lets see how the perform. When I do get something the photo will show part of a Ruger Blackhawk and impala and the rest will be shiny (hopefully) teeth!!!

Thank again everyone!

[MtGun44]

Impala is like a SMALL whitetail, a 150-160gr cast will exit from almost any angle. Blesbok is similar sized
animal, maybe slightly larger. Heavier will not hurt but not really needed unless expanding with HP.
Lee 158 RF is extremely accurate for me at full power, like 16.3 of H110 as is the Lyman 358429
Keith over the same load, which is a max load, but will not be any sort of an issue with the
Blackhawk, a very strong pistol. Also, note that gas check designs are not needed at all with proper
fit to the throats and barrel groove that is correct for the throats (about .001 or so larger)
and a good lube like NRA 50-50 or LBT soft blue. I'm not sure which lubes may be available in
RSA, hope you can get these standard ones rather than have to depend on home-brewed mixes,
some of which are excellent, but some are poor performers and all put another unknown into
the mix.

My blesbok made fairly well up into the record book and the PH, not a big guy, carried it to the
truck on his back about 150 yds, a bit difficult, but he did it. Americans tend to overrate African
animals that they are unfamiliar with, I know I used to. Like he said - medium game. Think Florida
whitetail does for the impala and blesbok. Warthogs are usually in the 110-180 lb range where I
hunted, in RSA, although they are pigs and a few pigs will always grow far larger than average.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127356&d=1421179449

Bill

[fredj338]

Impala is like a SMALL whitetail, a 150-160gr cast will exit from almost any angle. Blesbok is similar sized
animal, maybe slightly larger. Heavier will not hurt but not really needed unless expanding with HP.
Lee 158 RF is extremely accurate for me at full power, like 16.3 of H110 as is the Lyman 358429
Keith over the same load, which is a max load, but will not be any sort of an issue with the
Blackhawk, a very strong pistol. Also, note that gas check designs are not needed at all with proper
fit to the throats and barrel groove that is correct for the throats (about .001 or so larger)
and a good lube like NRA 50-50 or LBT soft blue. I'm not sure which lubes may be available in
RSA, hope you can get these standard ones rather than have to depend on home-brewed mixes,
some of which are excellent, but some are poor performers and all put another unknown into
the mix.

My blesbok made fairly well up into the record book and the PH, not a big guy, carried it to the
truck on his back about 150 yds, a bit difficult, but he did it. Americans tend to overrate African
animals that they are unfamiliar with. Like he said - medium game. Think Florida whitetail
does for the impala and blesbok. Warthogs are usually in the 150-200 lb range where I hunted,
in RSA, although they are pigs and some pigs will always grow far larger than average.

Bill

Agree, but I do think they African game can be more tenacious because they see more predators. Still, you are correct, size wise, nothing bigger their than a large wt deer (Fallow). A 165-170gr LSWC, pushed @ 1250fps+, isn't staying inside any of those shot broadside or 1/4 angles.

[BrassFerret]

MtGun44, That is a nice blesbuck! Looking at that photo I can smell the bush...about four months to go before our hunting season opens. And I still have lots of work to do! The Lyman 358429 mold is the 170 SWC mold is'nt it? The one they recommend for silhouette?

I did get some bullets cast from this mold that a quite hard (cannot mark them with my thumbnail and hard pressure) and they weigh 165.8 grains. Should be a good hunting bullet.

I have Lyman NRA Alox-Beeswax (50/50) Lube. Is this a good one?

[Bigslug]

I wonder if there is a point when a handgun hunter begins to get diminishing returns as he trades off velocity for bullet weight? I have read about J.D. Jones and SSK with the heavy for caliber bullets and there has to be a lot of merit in this...

An 'all-round' bullet weight would be great and for me with my limited (very) knowledge on this subject a bullit weighing between 180 and 200 grains seems to be the best of both worlds...


One thing I've been recently coming to grips with: these cast solids penetrate more than what many of us learned to think of for similar weights of jacketed soft or hollow points. If you're shooting mbogo, sure, you want the deep-drill capabilities of top end weights for caliber. For smaller critters, one or two weight classes down will still penetrate through, but it's debated by some that the added speed may give more tissue disruption off the nose. It WILL have a flatter path to the target - at least over normal handgun distances.

[MtGun44]

Yes, good design and good lube. The only issues I have ever found with the 358429 are that
it has a long nose and the short cylinder S&Ws (strangely, the large frame guns) will not accept
it crimped in the normal crimp groove. I think the BH has no issue here, but not sure.

Second, it tends to do best accuracy at hot loading, which should be no problem here. Hardness
will be good for breaking bones but is not actually required to avoid leading. I have repeatedly
fired PROPERLY FITTED (i.e. large enough) very soft (8 BHN) versions of this over 16.3 of H110 with
very good accuracy and no leading. This load is a max load although shows no pressure signs
and 4 of 6 cases will literally fall out of the cylinder of several of my guns without the extractor,
the others need a slight touch of the extractor.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50446&d=1244513448

And yes, the Lyman NRA 50-50 lube is a very good one, great way to start and expect to "take the shortcut"
to the best loads. If you run into some LBT soft blue, it has worked extremely well for me, too.

That blesbok resides on my trophy wall now and I am pretty pleased with it, IIRC it went
16" which I was told was a pretty nice one. Learning a whole catalog of new game animals
is interesting.

Rereading my previous post, let me clarify. The cylinder throats (front end of cyl) should be
about .001" larger than the groove diameter, and if the boolits are sized to throat diameter,
or even .001 greater in some guns, you can expect no leading with good designs and good
lubes. The big problems come with undersized boolits and if you add in poor lubes, problems
can happen. In my experience, if you launch magnum handgun boolits with the normal slow
powders like 2400 and H110/W296 you have no real need for any hardness greater than
10-12 BHN of normal wheel weight alloy, air cooled, and I have tested range scrap at 8 BHN
with very good results, too.

One test for very hard boolits is to put one on the base on an anvil or similar hard surface and whack it a
good one with a hammer. It should smash down and not shatter. Linotype alloy is brittle and
will shatter. I worry that this would lead to a boolit shattering on bone rather than punching through.
Water quenched wheelweights, although I judge them to be unnecessarily hard, will not shatter.

Bill

[fredj338]

A nice Blesbok there. I also have one on my wall, fun to hunt, but they need no more killing than our pronghorn. I would actually prefer a softer 170grLSWC for game in that weight class. Funny, my best trophy from three trips is my little common Duiker, about 30# worth! Many hunt them with 12ga & buckshot, almost like shooting rabbits in the tall grass.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/duikermount2.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/fredj338/media/duikermount2.jpg.html)

[MtGun44]

That is really a great mount! I love the piece of silverthorn there, a wonderful reminder
of the way the bush will always protect itself.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127427&d=1421260216

I agree that softer alloy would be my choice, get a bit of expansion, perhaps. These are
not large animals and 3-4 ft of penetration is not really required on most shots.

Bill

[wistlepig1]

Welcome, I shoot 158 gr swc with chex in my S&W mod. 27 8 3/8" sized .359 at 1250 fps with no leading.
Last week I shot a coyote with it and he is still dead!;)

[MtGun44]

Aww! Using a GC is cheating. :kidding: :bigsmyl2:

'Course, the 'yote won't know any difference.

Bill

[Bazoo]

I would buck the trend and suggest the Lyman 358156. it is a 156 grain gas checked semi wadcutter bullet. If you could have only one 357 mould, this would be it. It has 2 crimp grooves. 1 so you can run normal 357 cases, and the second so you can seat the bullet forward to get the same case capacity out of a 38 special case. Running it with a gas check makes it a touch heavier, although i cant recall how much. But of course you dont have to run gas checks if you are shooting lower or mid velocities. I run this bullet with straight wheel weight mix and it does very well. Out of a 4" barrel you can push it 1500+ fps also. I generally use 2400 powder, and a good heavy load, is 15.o grains. Although its not maximum, it is more than whats listed in modern manuals.

[BruceB]

I strongly second Bazoo's recommendation of the 358156.

For almost 45 years, this has been my go-to bullet for both the .357 and .38 Special.

I'm not aware of any other design that offers the broad utility and flexibility of the 156, and I've fired thousands of them WITHOUT the gas check, in both .38 and .357 revolvers.

It just doesn't get any better than this. Simply excellent. I just cast about another 500 last Saturday, and started loading them tonight.

[Beerd]

I strongly second Bazoo's recommendation of the 358156.

For almost 45 years, this has been my go-to bullet for both the .357 and .38 Special.

I'm not aware of any other design that offers the broad utility and flexibility of the 156, and I've fired thousands of them WITHOUT the gas check, in both .38 and .357 revolvers.

It just doesn't get any better than this. Simply excellent. I just cast about another 500 last Saturday, and started loading them tonight.

But the OP already has the 358429. You're not suggesting he should buy another mould are you?
..

[Bazoo]

I didnt catch that he already had the 358429 mould Which is a fine projectile in itself.

[jmort]

It has a .250 meplat. There are better options in the field.

[Echo]

I had a convertible BH - still have the 9mm cylinder, but the gun was stolen, along with some others. (BIG TIME DANG!) My experience with the 9mm cylinder was less than exemplary. That 355 bullet bounces off the sides of the .357 groove bbl and accuracy was non-existant. When hand-loaded with lead boolits, accuracy was much better, but not noteworthy.

[BrassFerret]

Hello Guys

Sorry, been hard at work...this has been one tough week!! Thanks again for all of your posts and cool photos! There are great hunting trophies posted here. Be good to seem more, but only if you hunted them with a .357 Mag.

Was it jmortimer that posted some drawings of molds made for his RBH by Tom at Accurate Molds? Well, I have been e-mailing Tom and all I can say is he is one great guy! He responds quickly to emails, even my confused mails! I have settled on getting one of his molds for the 200 gr bullet. I think it is the 36-200R, but I dont want it to be for gas-checked boolits (see I am getting the lingo sorted out now...).

My reasoning is that I already have a Lyman mold for the 170 gr SWC. As mentioned earlier, I live in South Africa and I would rather be 'over-boolit'ed' than under! I need to just slug my barrel, figure out the diameter of my chamber thoughts...not too sure ho to do this...??? and order the mold with the correct diameter. Easy:killingpc

Then I need to practice, practice and go hunt my animal/s...

[jmort]

If you are using a powder similar to 4227 you may want to get a gas check version. That is the same design I got for my Blackhawk except mine is theTumble Lube version. Cannot beat Accutate Tom is the best.

Here is link on slugging bore, they also sell a kit. http://www.beartoothbullets.com/faq/index.htm

[BrassFerret]

If you are using a powder similar to 4227 you may want to get a gas check version. That is the same design I got for my Blackhawk except mine is theTumble Lube version. Cannot beat Accutate Tom is the best.

Here is link on slugging bore, they also sell a kit. http://www.beartoothbullets.com/faq/index.htm

Thanks jmortimer! Blue moons and hens teeth are way easier to find here in SA than gas checks! I suppose I could buy them from the USA? I have the RCBS luberisizer, can it seat gas checks? Or, can you still shoot a gas check bullet, without a gas check?

I also have the Lee TL kit, but only in .357". The Lee agents here say that is the only sizing die for the ..38 Cal. I have one 9mm TL mold but have not tried it yet. The TL worked very well on a normal boolit for my .45 ACP, but that cartridge/gun will shoot anything well!

Thanks!

[jmort]

You can shoot without a gas check, but at that point I would go with plain base. Your Lube-A-Matic will seat gas checks. Here is a seller for international orders on gas checks:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/35-357-Caliber-Gator-Copper-Gas-Checks-500-Quanity-/131399493199?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e9805264f

It would not be hard to increase the OD of your lees sizer. Many have done it.

Titan ships Lee Precision internationally.
http://www.titanreloading.com/

Lee Precision ships internationally and they will make you a custom sizer if you want:
http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/601/6/shipping-charges

[MtGun44]

Match your boolit diameter to the diameter of the cylinder throat, which is the front portion
of the cylinder, forward of the chamber. Either use a machinist's pin gauges, which come
in 0.001" diameter, or remove the cylinder and drive a soft lead slug or oversized round
ball through the cylinder and measure with a micrometer, not a caliper - not accurate
enough. Also, slug the barrel and measure the groove diameter, if you want to. Ideally,
the cyl throat is .001 larger than the groove diameter, and your boolits should fit the
throats. Don't try to measure the throats with calipers, extremely unlikely to get accurate
info that way.

In practice, try some .358 diameter and if they shoot accurately and don't lead, don't
sweat the gun dimensions. But the best accy and least leading is usually with the boolit
sized to throat diameter.

If you have the Lyman 358429 already, then heavier will be OK, but really you will find
that the 170 gr will already shoot all the way through your medium game from almost
any angle, so why the need for the heavier weight boolits? I think you are worrying about
and solving a non-existent problem. If you have the 358429, you are already there. Heavier
will just be delivering more power to the bushveldt, not to the game.

Bill

[jmort]

If you discount the meplat difference to zero, yes. You only have one mold right? Seriously, it will be more fun.

[Shooter6br]

On a budget Lee 158 SWC. Then save your pennies and get Tom's amazing brass mold. Lifetime purchase

[Beerd]

BrassFerret

You said your 358429 bullets are weighing 165 grains. I'll bet your alloy is closer to linotype than Wheel Weight. Try mixing in some "pure" lead to make a softer bullet that will perform better.
..

[luvtn]

There used to be a sticky I thought on how to make your own gas checks from aluminum beverage cans. Perhaps someone can chime in that has more knowledge.
lt

[TMenezes]

Hey Brassferret, what do your bullets drop as cast? If it's about .359 or even .360 I would try shooting a few just to see what kind of accuracy your getting with that and if you get leading. If this turns out accurate and doesn't give leading then just try a hunt with this and see how it goes. No sence worrying over a problem until you have it. Lead is so much softer that the steel your gun is made of that it may not make much difference.

Now if you do get leading and poor accuracy then you will need to sort out the cause. But I would least try the very good mold that you already have before mail ordering lots more expensive stuff. Start with what you have and see where you need to go from there. It's easy for us here in the states to suggest gas checks, expensive molds, and custom gunsmithing. All of which May be well and good here where that stuff is relatively easy to get, but may not even be necessary to kill a smallish deer at close range.

[BrassFerret]

Match your boolit diameter to the diameter of the cylinder throat, which is the front portion
of the cylinder, forward of the chamber. Either use a machinist's pin gauges, which come
in 0.001" diameter, or remove the cylinder and drive a soft lead slug or oversized round
ball through the cylinder and measure with a micrometer, not a caliper - not accurate
enough. Also, slug the barrel and measure the groove diameter, if you want to. Ideally,
the cyl throat is .001 larger than the groove diameter, and your boolits should fit the
throats. Don't try to measure the throats with calipers, extremely unlikely to get accurate
info that way.

In practice, try some .358 diameter and if they shoot accurately and don't lead, don't
sweat the gun dimensions. But the best accy and least leading is usually with the boolit
sized to throat diameter.

If you have the Lyman 358429 already, then heavier will be OK, but really you will find
that the 170 gr will already shoot all the way through your medium game from almost
any angle, so why the need for the heavier weight boolits? I think you are worrying about
and solving a non-existent problem. If you have the 358429, you are already there. Heavier
will just be delivering more power to the bushveldt, not to the game.

Bill

Yes, we do have some vicious trees here in the bushvelt...you took some photos of them. They have long teeth!! Just kidding!!! Thanks for the sound advice!! I really appreciate it. I will be casting with wheel weights alloyed with 6% antimony. Maybe I will try them as cast and could also try water quenching them from the mold?

Thanks MtGun44!!

[BrassFerret]

BrassFerret

You said your 358429 bullets are weighing 165 grains. I'll bet your alloy is closer to linotype than Wheel Weight. Try mixing in some "pure" lead to make a softer bullet that will perform better.
..

Yes, they are VERY hard, cannot mark them with my thumb nail and it does take a fair amount of pressure to mark them with a scribe!! I am going to dilute them with softer lead. Thanks!!

[BrassFerret]

Hey Brassferret, what do your bullets drop as cast? If it's about .359 or even .360 I would try shooting a few just to see what kind of accuracy your getting with that and if you get leading. If this turns out accurate and doesn't give leading then just try a hunt with this and see how it goes. No sence worrying over a problem until you have it. Lead is so much softer that the steel your gun is made of that it may not make much difference.

Now if you do get leading and poor accuracy then you will need to sort out the cause. But I would least try the very good mold that you already have before mail ordering lots more expensive stuff. Start with what you have and see where you need to go from there. It's easy for us here in the states to suggest gas checks, expensive molds, and custom gunsmithing. All of which May be well and good here where that stuff is relatively easy to get, but may not even be necessary to kill a smallish deer at close range.

Thanks TMenezes, What fun is it not getting a knew shooting toy...? What you say has got merit, I cannot get more guns...saving place for a bigger caliber Ruger or Thompson Contender a .44 Mag or 30-30 Win would be nice....?!?

So I am getting reloading toys... A few guys here hunt things with the 158 JSP and it works. I want to hunt with a boolit that I made.

Thanks for your input, it is appreciated!!

[Certaindeaf]

Maybe I missed it but what measured diameter does that Lyman 170 throw? Even without measuring, I'd a tried shooting them unmeasured/unsized but that's just me.
That's a fine hunting slug.

[TMenezes]

We should send Brassferret some samples from various molds so he can figure out what works well for him. Anyone know the process for international shipping? I can barely figure out how to call my wife's family in Mexico lol

[BrassFerret]

We should send Brassferret some samples from various molds so he can figure out what works well for him. Anyone know the process for international shipping? I can barely figure out how to call my wife's family in Mexico lol

Thanks TMenezes, photos should do! This is how I can be a pain in the !%@, I like to try short cut some of the processes due to some of the shortages we have here as well as the expense. However, I have been reloading a variety of rifles for long enough, to know that if a reloader wants to know what will work there is only one way and that is to...'ask his gun'!!

It is interesting to see what is out there and what works for people. I am new to handgun hunting as well as casting...

[MtGun44]

Dead right on the "ask his gun". I say it a touch differently, "Every gun is a thing unto itself."

Yes, air cooled and water dropped with antimony should be very different in hardness. I think you will find
that there is nothing much to tell about accuracy difference, and you may find that the air cooled
will expand a bit at high velocity and gain a bit of wound channel increase. The water dropped
will just punch straight through. If you are meat shooting, try to miss the shoulder and put
it through the heart-lung area, and accept that they will usually run a bit for the less bone splintered
and bloodied meat.

You may want to consider using HP versions of that same design (molds can be converted) if you
want more damage, less penetration.

Check out Erik's excellent site for hollowpointing services.

http://www.hollowpointmold.com/

Here is a pic one of my 358429 double cavity molds that I had converted to Cramer style
HP pins. One is a deep HP and one is for a shallow "cup point". At .357 Mag velocity, I think you
will find that the deep one will blow the whole HP off and the rear will continue on, not likely
what you want to do, but may work on medium game, certainly best suited to varmints where
blowup is fine, nothing will be eaten in any case. The cup point, with a careful match of alloy
and hardness to velocity, may get a nice expansion, but at the cost of a good bit of test work
to sort it out.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50576&d=1248747376

Bill

PS
Worth reading.
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellExpansionOfCastHP.htm
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell358477HP.htm

[BuckRimfire]

Just to muddy the waters: if you feel the need to shoot your beasts from dead astern, there is the Lyman 358627 GC 215 gr SWC. Should penetrate rather persistently! I purchased a bag of these from Western Bullet, and over 9.5 gr of AA#9 at 25 yards they were as accurate as anything I've tried in my S&W Model 19 (the 180 gr XTP also did very well). Sorry, did not chrono them yet.

Crazy boolits! They're as long as the first knuckle of my thumb. A brief discussion and image is here:
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell38SWC.htm

I seated them over the canonical COAL (out at 1.643" vs. SAAMI 1.59" (40.39 mm)) to take advantage of the K-frame's long cylinder. Not sure if that's an option in the Blackhawk. If not, you're on your own with guesses at what powder charge to use, since the standard COAL will cut into the chamber volume drastically with this long slug.

But given that your 358429 is the classic boolit for the .357 Magnum, has plenty of trustworthy load data, and is already what most people consider somewhat heavy-for-caliber, this is probably only of academic interest, if that! If the Keith doesn't kill critters dead, it's probably not the boolit's fault. ;)

[BrassFerret]

Dead right on the "ask his gun". I say it a touch differently, "Every gun is a thing unto itself."

Yes, air cooled and water dropped with antimony should be very different in hardness. I think you will find
that there is nothing much to tell about accuracy difference, and you may find that the air cooled
will expand a bit at high velocity and gain a bit of wound channel increase. The water dropped
will just punch straight through. If you are meat shooting, try to miss the shoulder and put
it through the heart-lung area, and accept that they will usually run a bit for the less bone splintered
and bloodied meat.

You may want to consider using HP versions of that same design (molds can be converted) if you
want more damage, less penetration.

Check out Erik's excellent site for hollowpointing services.

http://www.hollowpointmold.com/

Here is a pic one of my 358429 double cavity molds that I had converted to Cramer style
HP pins. One is a deep HP and one is for a shallow "cup point". At .357 Mag velocity, I think you
will find that the deep one will blow the whole HP off and the rear will continue on, not likely
what you want to do, but may work on medium game, certainly best suited to varmints where
blowup is fine, nothing will be eaten in any case. The cup point, with a careful match of alloy
and hardness to velocity, may get a nice expansion, but at the cost of a good bit of test work
to sort it out.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50576&d=1248747376

Bill

PS
Worth reading.
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellExpansionOfCastHP.htm
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell358477HP.htm

Thanks for the links and info Bill! Nice picture! I am going to slug my chamber mouths now...

[BrassFerret]

Well everyone, after some great advice from you guys I have slugged both my RBH barrel, which mikes out at .3575" and my cylinder mouths, which mike out between .358"-.3585". I slugged them both a few times just to be sure. I have also just finnished casting some boolits from my Lyman mold and dropped them in to a bucket of water from the mold. Just drying them now and will them weigh and measure them. They are from WW. Will they also age harden?

Thanks everyone!! It has been great hearing from you all, I think I will post a photo or two and also let you all know how they work out...

[lightman]

Your 170 swc is a great choice and wheel weights with a little tin added should do you a great job. I've always liked the Lyman 358429, but I had problems with the top of the mold getting galled (?). I called RCBS and they made me a 170 grain mold from their 150 swc mold, probably by readjusting the height of the cutter. Its a great mold but I do miss the 4 cavity Lyman. I hope to find a H&G some day!

[Beerd]

................ given that your 358429 is the classic boolit for the .357 Magnum, has plenty of trustworthy load data, and is already what most people consider somewhat heavy-for-caliber, this is probably only of academic interest, if that! If the Keith doesn't kill critters dead, it's probably not the boolit's fault. ;)

Well said.

and welcome to Castboolits!
..

[BrassFerret]

Well, just weighed 50 of my (water quenched) boolits from that Lyman 170 grain SWC. They drop from the mold at .360" and weigh between 169.7 and 170.1 grains. Whats more, they are a bit harder!

Now for the correct sizing die/s, I only have a .357" die so I will need import .358" and/or .359" dies. As mentioned earlier, my barrel slugs out at .3575" and my cylinder at .358"... This has been a major learning curve and I still need to test these boolits for accuracy...aah! the joys of reloading! Got to love it!

Thanks for the help guys!!

[Certaindeaf]

Yea, I'd try shooting those as cast. Sizing bullets just screws them up even more. Only size when necessary.

[Beerd]

Someone speak up if this is not a good idea for BrassFerret.

Pan lube with your Alox/Beeswax and shoot as cast.
Or work some of the same lube into the bullet with your fingers & shoot as cast.
Maybe you don't have to try and find that .358 sizer, could be you need a .360.
..

[MtGun44]

The will gain hardness for a week or so. Sounds like your guns are just near dimensionally perfect, throats
a tiny bit larger than groove diameter. Size the boolits to about throat diameter and lube with your
50-50 and you will be set.

I have never found sizing to damage boolits if a proper top punch is used and the tool is not
out of alignment, and it makes the diameter more consistent. Size before long as they will
continue to get harder as time passes. You may find that you can chamber a round with
the .360 diameter 'as-cast', and it will be OK, but sizing to .358 or .359 would be better.

You can polish out the die to .358 or .359 by using a split wooden dowel and a strip of wet or dry
(silicon carbide, black) sandpaper in a drill, about 360 grit will be good, final polish with 600 is nice.
Before you polish, size one or two and measure, some dies do not meet the marking on the
side. What sort of sizing system do you have?

Bill

[BrassFerret]

The will gain hardness for a week or so. Sounds like your guns are just near dimensionally perfect, throats
a tiny bit larger than groove diameter. Size the boolits to about throat diameter and lube with your
50-50 and you will be set.

I have never found sizing to damage boolits if a proper top punch is used and the tool is not
out of alignment, and it makes the diameter more consistent. Size before long as they will
continue to get harder as time passes. You may find that you can chamber a round with
the .360 diameter 'as-cast', and it will be OK, but sizing to .358 or .359 would be better.

You can polish out the die to .358 or .359 by using a split wooden dowel and a strip of wet or dry
(silicon carbide, black) sandpaper in a drill, about 360 grit will be good, final polish with 600 is nice.
Before you polish, size one or two and measure, some dies do not meet the marking on the
side. What sort of sizing system do you have?

Bill

Thanks MtGun44. I use an RCBS Lubrisizer with the Lyman H&I dies. Also have some Lee sizing dies, but not in .357", they are for my 9mm.

I guess I can run them through the sizer without lubing them, and lube them when ready to load. I dont want to lube them before hand as they can attract dust. I am going to make/buy containers to pack them in. I read that the harden most for about two weeks after casting. Is this correct? I do not have a hardness tester...

[BrassFerret]

Someone speak up if this is not a good idea for BrassFerret.

Pan lube with your Alox/Beeswax and shoot as cast.
Or work some of the same lube into the bullet with your fingers & shoot as cast.
Maybe you don't have to try and find that .358 sizer, could be you need a .360.
..

Thanks Beerd, I see someone on this forum makes custom sizing dies, "Buckshot" I think? Tom at Accurate molds has been really helpfull, I am going to get a 200 grain mold from him.

[BrassFerret]

Hi guys,

This tread started off with me asking about the best bullet (boolit) to hunt with in the .357 Magnum, well it just shows how little know about casting...!! I think that there are many great choices that you guys have given me and the tips on actually 'prepping' that boolit for firing has been very informative. The manuals don't give you all of this info! I have learnt a lot from you all!!

Thank you to ALL who have posted comments, it is very much appreciated!!!

[BrassFerret]

Oops, spelling!! THREAD, not TREAD....we are not talking about tires or shoes here!

[725]

I'd recommend the 360-627 boolit. For the critters you have there, deep penetration is desirable. The design of the 360-627 is supposed to weigh out at 220 grs. My alloy casts it at 215. It's been a proven critter getter here in the States, and having hunted over in your neck of the woods, I can say this is certainly a bullet you could use. NOE makes a version of it. I think they just had a run. They may have some in inventory. Load data can be viewed by reading an article from LASC by Glen Fryxell titled "A Bullet for All Seasons". Welcome aboard and best of luck.

[MtGun44]

By the way, I have found that .357 or .358 works best in my 9mms, too, with
the Lee 120 truncated cone boolit mold.

Your avatar is too small for me to be sure, but is that a herd of eland?

Bill

[BrassFerret]

By the way, I have found that .357 or .358 works best in my 9mms, too, with
the Lee 120 truncated cone boolit mold.

Your avatar is too small for me to be sure, but is that a herd of eland?



Bill

Hi Bill
Thanks, I will give that a try. Yes, it is one of many eland herds on a good friend of mine's ranch about an hours drive from where I live. I love hunting there as it is challenging and the game are not hunted to a state of paranoia!! My dream is to hunt an eland with a rifle and my fantasy is to hunt one with a handgun... I will need something bigger than a .357 Magnum for that though!!!

[jonp]

A 158gr should take all of the thin skinned game you mentioned with a nice charge behind it but for the warthog i'd step up to the 170swc due to the heavy bone and muscle and push it with Unique, 2400 or H110.

I've never hunted them but being interested in Africa I studied them in College and talked about them with my Prof, the head of the Biology (F&W), who had a number of times. I went to Tanzania a while back and saw some among other animals. I bet they went 200lbs which combined with the muscle and bone led me to think heavy for caliber boolits. The one and only deer I shot with a pistol was with a GP100 357Mag. It was a 35yrd or so shot, the deer was about 200lbs and I was using a 160gr jhp. The bullet broke the shoulder, passed through both lungs and the deer ran 20 or 30 yrds and laid down. This is the basis for my estimate on the plains game you mentioned. This also led me when looking at other animals to wonder how the caliber would hold up on them. If the pigs are going over 200lbs which they can according to the books I have then I would increase the weight of the boolit to the 170gr. After all, its not an experiment. The goal is to cleanly take the game.

[TMenezes]

I love reading about Africa and hunting African game. Wish I had the time and money to go hunting with you in Africa. Where in Africa are you?

[MtGun44]

For those that would like to hunt in Africa, there are MANY different outfitters.

This one did me very well. When I went, about 10 yrs back, 100% of what they put on the
site was true. I haven't spent much time there recently, so that may have changed but I
doubt it. I tell folks that if they can delay that new F150 purchase for about 1-2 years they
can pay for a trip to Africa to hunt, which will be remembered long after the F150 is in
the scrap yard. By this I mean, keep driving the old beater while putting what would be the new
truck payments into a savings account for the trip. It is less money than you would think.
I did the 10 day hunt with 6 heads, which back then cost about what the 7 day/three head
hunt is now. The 8 day hunt looks like a heck of a deal.

http://www.cruisersafaris.com/

I have no connection to them at all other than being a satisfied customer.

[fredj338]

For those that would like to hunt in Africa, there are MANY different outfitters.

This one did me very well. When I went, about 10 yrs back, 100% of what they put on the
site was true. I haven't spent much time there recently, so that may have changed but I
doubt it. I tell folks that if they can delay that new F150 purchase for about 1-2 years they
can pay for a trip to Africa to hunt, which will be remembered long after the F150 is in
the scrap yard. By this I mean, keep driving the old beater while putting what would be the new
truck payments into a savings account for the trip. It is less money than you would think.
I did the 10 day hunt with 6 heads, which back then cost about what the 7 day/three head
hunt is now. The 8 day hunt looks like a heck of a deal.

http://www.cruisersafaris.com/

I have no connection to them at all other than being a satisfied customer.

Since 1999, Exactly how I was able to afford 3 trips, 3 diff countries. Most truck/car payments run $400-$500/m. Over two years, $10-$12K, enough for a 10day plains game hunt or a 7day buffalo hunt. Life is too short & you may not have your health when you hit retirement age. The way things are going with that, you may not have the $$ then either!

[BrassFerret]

I love reading about Africa and hunting African game. Wish I had the time and money to go hunting with you in Africa. Where in Africa are you?

Hi TMenezes
I live in South Africa in Johannesburg. I have good friends with farms/ranches in various parts of SA with large numbers of game. I am very privileged to be allowed to hunt on these properties. I am also a member of Kwa-Zulu Hunters and Nature Conservation Association, with my Dedicated Hunters. This allows me to buy hunts on the KZN-Natal Reserves when hunts are offered there.

I think we all dream of hunting in different locations. I have lots to see of my own country as well as continent, and I say this when I have hunted in Namibia, Zimbabwe as well as lots of areas here in SA. I have hunted boar in Germany and I would also like to visit Alaska...

I have a list in a BIG bucket!!!!

[BrassFerret]

I agree with MtGun44 and fredj338. Affordable hunt are to be had here in SA, just do your homework when selecting an outfitter. There are lots of sharks!! As a local, I have been ripped off as have many other local hunters. But this dishonesty does go both ways here where hunters (local), have been dishonest with the game ranchers/outfitters.

As a matter of interest, hunting here this year is going to be very expensive (I think mainly for local hunters), as our rare game breeding has had a very big upsurge. Ranchers are now selling game live for up to 10 to 50 times more than they sell them to hunters. Bleak times are here for us local hunters...but it will not last for long! The ranchers need to cut and bail their hay while the sun shines...

[BrassFerret]

Hi there
I would like to thank everyone who replied to my post. I have cast some boolits and assembled some test loads based on the advice that was given here and will be testing these this weekend. I appreciate everyone's help...you guys rock!!

Cheers!

P.S. Am enjoying the other posts!!

[MtGun44]

Waiting for range reports.

Bill

[BrassFerret]

Waiting for range reports.

Bill

I am also waiting for my range report.... I just cannot get time to go and test these glittering little jewels I have miraculously managed to create! Soon I hope...very soon! I will take some photos and post them here (targets, velocities and of course the boolits!). My next trick is to get hold of some decent boolit lube for the .357 Mag. I would love it to work in my 9mmP as well as my .45 ACP, but I understand these are differing demands to place on the lube.

I have been looking around and see there is a contributor on this forum that goes by the name of Glenn, they make amoungst other lubes and skin products a product called 'Carnuba Red', If I understand things, the BAC or 2500 Plus he makes would suit my needs really well? Any agreement from you guys?

Cheers for now!

[jmort]

http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/

[BrassFerret]

http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/

That's the Guy!!! I emailed him yesterday to get some info about his lube and to see if he is willing to see lube to me...I hope to hear from him soon! Any idea about his stuff??

Thanks jmortimer!!!

[EDK]

Glenn and the elves make excellent lube. They're all good. Depending on outdoor temperature range for your shooting, the ALOX or B-A-C might be a bit soft and too low a melting temperature. 2500 and CARNUBA RED have higher temps. I resisted LEE LIQUID ALOX for a long time, but used it with the RANCH DOG boolits and have come to like it for wadcutter and lower end loads.
IIRC they have a sample pack of lubes.

[MtGun44]

I would suggest the 50-50 Beeswax for every thing as a start.

For rifles, some of the others may be more appropriate, but 50-50 works well in my experience.

Bill

[jmort]

If you have a lubrisizer go with the Carnuba Red. If you pan lube mix it with BAC. The 45-45-10 will work and is easy to use. Read his FAQs on the home page and the Recluse 45-45-10 sticky in the Lube forum.

[MtGun44]

I would suggest the 50-50 Beeswax from LsStuff for every thing as a start.

For rifles, some of the others may be more appropriate, but 50-50 works well
for rifles, too, in my experience.

Bill

[BrassFerret]

Hi All

A while back I asked for and received a lot of help from the good folk on this forum. Thanks to all of you! These are the photos of my test results of my first bullets cast in a Lyman mold for the .357". It drops them at exactly 170 grains and I did water quench them. I tried using a std small pistol primer, but had a whole lot of unburned powder blow back into my face (there was a steady breeze). So I swapped to a small rifle primer and that worked well.

134409

134410

I know these do not look as impressive as some other groups I have seen, but I will get better and it was a lot of fun from casting to shooting!

I have now asked Tom at Accurate Molds to make one of his awesome molds to drop a 200 gr .359" for me and also ordered some B.A.C lubr from LAR45 (Glenn). My alloy is now 94% Lead and 6% Antimony...I get this from a friend who makes shot. I hope this will do?

Thanks again to all of you! This forum has taught me stacks of things. You guys all Rock!!!

Best,

BrassFerret