Making a real 38 S&W mold

[SP101GUY]

Has anyone tried to make a real .361 boolit mold for the 38 S&W by taking maybe a Lee .358 mold and lapping it out to .361? Any success or results? I would like to load for a Webley MKiv in 150-158g.

[9.3X62AL]

I didn't use this method to arrive in a similar place. I have both a Webley-Enfield and a S&W M&P chambered for the British service version of the 38 S&W, AKA the 38/200 and a couple other names. The bullet used is NEI's #169A, designed by a member on this site to closely match the service bullet's weight and profile. My throats run .362"-.363", and in WW metal my mold drops castings at about .3645" to clean up nicely in a Lyman H&I die marked .363". It sizes true. I would verify the revolver's throat dimensions if you haven't already done so.

Both of these service revos of mine print low relative to the sights using 148-160 grain bullets, owing to barrel time and recoil arc. The 200 grainers hit close to where the sights are looking. This is about a 3.5"-4.0" difference at 25 yards. It would be good to confirm which loading the revolver in question was regulated for--it can make a difference.

Look on this site for stickies concerning the "Beagling" of bullet molds to prompt a few more thousandths out of a given mould cavity. This involves the use of aluminum HVAC tape to mould block faces, and leaves the cavity unaltered but increases its diameter a skoash or two. There are a number of semi-custom mould makers that advertise on this site that can make you a mould to specs you choose, also.

[georgerkahn]

For what it's worth, I also had challenges for a .38/200 boolit. Another forum member posted a very reasonably priced mould designed for this caliber -- the Ideal 360271 -- which I was lucky enough to purchase. GREAT .38 S&W boolit! You may wish to "Google" this mould for, perhaps, emulation? Or -- maybe someone also has one for sale (There IS a wanted section...)
BEST!
georgerkahn

[SwedeNelson]

Have a section just for them
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=38&osCsid=rtlg6unekhr2aumcvj0mdlnf23

Bullet maker, maker
Swede Nelson

[Char-Gar]

Why reinvent the wheel?

[GLL]

NOE 363-200 RN
http://www.fototime.com/5D4BAC03881A1B0/large.jpg

Jerry

[Bigslug]

Yep. NOE has options and good ones. I'd suggest you stick with one of the 200 grain options (I've got the longer nose version - basically a clone of the later MKII jacketed profile). These are what the sights on the Webleys are set for, and when you are calibrated for slow projectiles that spend a long time in the gun, I found that going lighter and faster can place your hits significantly below point of aim.

[SP101GUY]

Looks like I will go with one of the NOE molds, thanks for all of the info.

[LAGS]

I too am going to get the NOE mold for my two Victory's and collection of Saturday Night Specials

[9.3X62AL]

One of the curious features of the 38/200 loads is that by using a bullet like NEI #169A you are seating a bullet .810" long into a case of .775" length. 3.0 grains of Unique or 3.3 grains of Herco is my usual fuel for 675-700 FPS. I would not run these combos in smaller top-breaks or in small-frame Colt or S&W revolvers. These loads might be a little much for these models. In my Colt Police Positive (4", c. 1920) I use 2.8 grains of Unique under Lyman #358477 sized .359" and get 700 FPS. VERY accurate, too.

[georgerkahn]

A question for 9.3X62AL,SwedeNelson, and any other knowledgeable, experienced .38 S&W casters: For a .38/200 WWII vintage Smith & Wesson Revolver (" U.S. Government Property” S/n 670xxx), which NOE boolit mould would be YOUR choice? I prefer iron, then brass; four, then two cavity. I've heard so many good things re NOE moulds, but there are too many choices :p for me to select the "right" one. Really will appreciate your thought/suggestion.
BEST!
georgerkahn

[Bigslug]

Georgerkahn,

I bought the more tapered 200 grainer (MKII-ish) version when it was Swede's only mold for the caliber (my first NOE and first aluminum mold - boy, did THAT get expensive:mrgreen:). I believe the more rounded MKI showed up a little later as a request for something "more correct" - I wasn't involved so can't give you the blow-by-blow, but going off Wiki, I believe further research may have indicated the MKII FMJ profile of WWII was actually a 178 grain slug. The MKI probably IS a lot closer to the .38 S&W Super Police, which WAS provided to the Brits on Lend Lease boats. Being less pointy, it may smack a little harder as well.

But I can say that the MKII-ish bullet shoots well. I've got it sized at .361", greased with Ben's Red atop 2.3 grains of Titegroup, moving at 625fps. It hits dead on to my Webley's sights at 25Y and recycles steel dog food cans wonderfully. Authentic or not, you won't feel bad about it.

[rintinglen]

126883
I used an Ideal 358-430 200 grain before my victory model became a 38 Special snubbie. It cast at .360-361 which worked and shot to point of aim with 2.4 grains of Bullseye. It shoots better as a 2 inch than it did as a 5 inch.

[rintinglen]

126883
I used an Ideal 358-430 200 grain before my victory model became a 38 Special snubbie. It cast at .360-361 which worked and shot to point of aim with 2.4 grains of Bullseye. It shoots better as a 2 inch 38 Special than it did as a 5 inch 38 S&W.

[9.3X62AL]

NOE was not in existence when I acquired the Webley-Enfield and soon thereafter the S&W M&P. My first attempts at loading for the beasts used Beagled Lyman #358430 castings, which I could coax to about .362" before fins started sprouting between the mould halves. A member here (OKSMLE) had established at NEI Handtools that company's #169A, a duplicate of the Mark I bullet IIRC, and I received some samples of that casting. By that time I had a Lyman H&I die to fit my throats (.363"), so I sized the samples accordingly and filled the grooves with 50/50 Alox/beeswax. The Unique and Herco data previously posted came from Ken Waters' "Pet Loads" column in "Handloader" magazine. The samples shot from the Webley with Unique went into 3"-3.5" at 25 yards, and the S&W can manage 2"-2.5" at the same distance. Jackrabbits hit with these loads or with #358430s at 700 FPS show evidence of tumbling after contact and during passage through live targets. The Brits may have been on to something here. Conversely, when I run #358430 to 1100-1200 FPS in the 357 Magnum, the penetration seems more straight-through. Lots more contents comes with it, too. I would also add that in contrast to my #358477 loads moving 700 FPS with 150 grain bullets from a Colt Police Positive x 4", these 200 grain bullets hit at 25 yard steel targets with a lot more WHOMP than their counterparts weighing 3/4 as much at the same speed. Something is going on, for sure. I sure as hell won't be standing downrange to field these slow slugs with a baseball glove.

[Bigslug]

Jackrabbits hit with these loads or with #358430s at 700 FPS show evidence of tumbling after contact and during passage through live targets. The Brits may have been on to something here. Conversely, when I run #358430 to 1100-1200 FPS in the 357 Magnum, the penetration seems more straight-through.

For what it's worth. . .In my early stages of casting before my MKIV came home, I was able to talk an LE ammo vendor I know into letting me shoot some 358430's cast of some fairly hard stuff into his FBI gelatin testing rig in an effort to learn what the Brits were all about. These were soft loads out of a Smith 640 using .357 brass. First one was 3.2 grains of Unique and it chrono'd 561 fps. The second was 3.6 grains at 635. Both of them drilled a perfectly straight, point-first line through the 18" gelatin block, where they were stopped by the hard rubber block placed for the purpose. Deformation? I think the rubber block left a smudge on the nose of one of them.

I am curious about the MKII-ish bullet's stability on impact. I think with its longer nose, it might have a tendency to tumble.

[TXGunNut]

Hard to beat a big, slow boolit.

[dubber123]

For what it's worth. . .In my early stages of casting before my MKIV came home, I was able to talk an LE ammo vendor I know into letting me shoot some 358430's cast of some fairly hard stuff into his FBI gelatin testing rig in an effort to learn what the Brits were all about. These were soft loads out of a Smith 640 using .357 brass. First one was 3.2 grains of Unique and it chrono'd 561 fps. The second was 3.6 grains at 635. Both of them drilled a perfectly straight, point-first line through the 18" gelatin block, where they were stopped by the hard rubber block placed for the purpose. Deformation? I think the rubber block left a smudge on the nose of one of them.

I am curious about the MKII-ish bullet's stability on impact. I think with its longer nose, it might have a tendency to tumble.

Were they the 200 gr. 358430, or the 150 gr. version? I have both.

[Bigslug]

200. There's a 150 with the same designation??

[9.3X62AL]

200. There's a 150 with the same designation??

Yes--it has been out of print for some time. Think of a 195 grain version minus its bottom drive band and lube groove.