1894c 357,125gr xtp, 231, h110 help

[dmdracer]

I have the above Marlin lever rifle, 18.5" lenght and have had great fun shooting 158 gr cast hp.

I purchased the 125 gr xtp's and reviewing loading manuels, W231 starts @ 7.3 gr @ 1335 fps., max 8.5 @ 1514

H110 lists 21.0 @1881fps and max 22.0 @ 1966.

From previous shooting of "357's" in pistol then same round in the rifle, fps went up approx 400 fps. humm

I called Hogdon, told them this would be out of the 1894, he mumbled something about pressure being the same but fps would go up some from the longer barrel but he confirmed the same loads. I was quickly writing the info as he spoke but in a hurry because I had another call from wife... mother in hospital and thanked him and hung up, of course I missed her call..

Seems awfully fast when I add on approx 3-400 fps. Is this load correct ??

I thought someone posted about using H110 around 15 to 16 grs for 125 gr pills but thought that was below the start for H110 and have heard this powder you do not want to reduce..

I also have some lil gun which works good with the 158 gr cast, would this be good for the 125gr xtps?

Any help on this would be great.
thanks
Dave

[runfiverun]

you do not want to go below @ 3 percent below max with h110 or win 296
i usually see about 250 - maybe 300 with a 20" over an 8" bbl
pressure in a load is almost the same gun to gun depends on your chamber , throat. etc
thats where the start low and work up thing comes into play

now for my favorite bit of advice

follow your manual sometimes cast and jack data is close but.....
that lil-gun may work. check on hodgons web site it has a ton of data for free

[Baron von Trollwhack]

I use the H110 with the 125 j's in a '92 Navy Arms carbine. That's my deer load for that rifle, if circumstances can be arranged. BvT

[JesterGrin_1]

I feel the Pressure will be higher in the Marlin as there is no exit for the gas as in a revolver. In a Marlin it is a closed chamber but in a revolver the gas will escape between the barrel and the cylinder. But I could be wrong lol.

[Nueces]

Years ago, an experimenter for one of the manufacturers (Speer, I think), Bill Caldwell, conducted some tests using a custom machined one-hole 'cylinder' for a Smith M-28. He had the cylinder made to reproduce the barrel-cylinder gap common to revolvers and to accept a pressure transducer so he could monitor pressures as the slug transited the gap. One article appeared in, I think again, Handloader before Caldwell was killed in an accident.

His results showed a prominent pressure spike as the lead bullet crossed the gap and entered the forcing cone. Don't recall the numbers, but the general result was that revolver loads showed more pressure than were seen in rifles, because of the slug being swaged up and down and into the cone. 'Twas the sort of cutting-edge work a lot of us miss in the modern periodicals.

A rifle does often show larger muzzle velocities, but this is from more time under pressure, not from a higher peak pressure. Interesting stuff...no telling what else Caldwell could have shown light on had he lived.

Mark

[dmdracer]

Thanks guys for the info about pressure.

Any load suggestions for the H110 or lil gun with that xtp or are the loads recommended good to go ? that would be close to 2400 fps... seems fast for a small bullet.

I'll work some up later tonight and test them over weekend.

Well maybe... birthday today, not sure what the wife has planned later :-D

[runfiverun]

just go with the recommended loads you'll be fine

been married more than 20 years, my wife plans
to get some sleep on my b-day

[AllanD]

PEak pressure actually occours with most 357 loads before the bullet completely clears the case mouth and it's mostly downhill from there....

As for H-110, yes it gives max velocities from revolvers compared to other powders, but much of it's power is wasted in a short revolver barrel

Pay attention to that huge white flash from a 6" revolver barrel.... tha't wasted energy.

AD

[405]

Both the Lyman and Hornady manuals list non-revolver data for the types of loads your asking about. Lyman uses 10-14" TC Contenders and Hornady uses a 16" Mod 92 Rossi. I think either set of data is what you want to use in the Marlin carbine.

Probably the large differences quoted between potential handgun/revolver and carbine velocities may be comparing the extremes. The more the difference the more the WOW factor. Might really get a wow factor if a high pressure 357 designed for carbine is loaded and shot in a marginal revolver by mistake :roll:

The highest Contender or carbine muzzle velocities listed in either manual with the 125 J bullet is around 2000 fps. May be accurate may be a random pattern- who knows? 35 caliber 2000 + fps velocities are much easier in cartridges so designed like the 358s with added bonus of much higher sectional densities.

[runfiverun]

hodgdons shows the same loads in 44 mag in the rifle and pistol section

i have an older imr phamplet that shows 4895-4831 etc being used in their
rifle loads, the pistol loads in 7.5 bbl were faster than their 20" bbl
and had much higher pressures [ welllll ]

wonder what was behind this? sounds really corporate to me. lol