5010

[David R]

Has anybody used this in cast loads? 30'06 or 308?


Looks like it would be to slow, but I know nothing.

David

[45nut]

Has anybody used this in cast loads? 30'06 or 308?


Looks like it would be to slow, but I know nothing.

David,,,,,,about this powder. [smilie=2:

[Bullshop]

Has anybody used this in cast loads? 30'06 or 308?


Looks like it would be to slow, but I know nothing.

David
I like to duplex it for hunting loads with heavy boolits in just about anything. I have used it as a main charge in everything from 303 Brit to 50/90SS
BIC/BS

[StarMetal]

I've used it in everything from 243 up to 30-06, 8x57 Mauser, 7x57 mauser, 260 Remington, and the 8x56R Steyr Mannlicher.

It's very very slow, but it burns the best in overbore cartridges or cartridges with small bores such as the 243 and 260. With the bigger calibers it leaves alot of unburned powder. I use a duplex load of a fast burning pistol/shotgun powder in the bigger bores. Even when it does burn completely it burns dirty and I would suggest cleaning your barrel after any range use with it.

Now don't take me wrong, I've gotten really really good results with it. Great accuracy and no leading cause it's so darn slow. It starts a cast bullet very gently. In the smaller capacity cases you'd be hard put to overload a round. In fact in some of them you need to trickle tube to get enough in.

For the prices it's a good one not to pass up.

Joe

[Maven]

David, I've been using it with CB's for several years in the 7.5 Swiss, the 8mm Mau. and the .30-06; and yes, it is slow. It performs best with heavier CB's, mag. primers and a case filler, typically Grex or powdered bran aka Bf (Ordinary bran run through a coffee grinder/mill; the idea and abbreviation are Aladin's.). A small amount of filler is used with ~85% -90% loading density in any of the aforementioned cartridges to improve 5010's efficiency as measured by extreme spreads, standard deviations and the amount of unburned powder that falls from the fired case. (Rest assured, there will be plenty of it left in the bbl.!) For the .30-06 and CB's from 170 - 195gr., I start with 47gr. 5010 and 1cc. Bf or Grex and generally don't [need to] exceed 48gr., with mag. primers. If you use Grex, store the loaded rounds with the primers up (facing you) as it tends to migrate if said rounds are shaken. If you have a chronograph, use it since your lot of 5010 may be different than mine. Lastly, given the size of the powder granules (10-13 = 1 grain), you may find it easier to use a Lee Dipper rather than a powder measure (It's too coarse for them.) to throw charges. Btw, I suspect you'll need less filler in the .308, than in the '06, ~.7cc v. 1cc, respectively. Hope this helps!

[David R]

Thanks guys,

I have never used surplus powder before. I figured if its slow, maybe a full case would be close to just right.

So Maven, why the filler, why not just fill the case?

I keep looking at pats pricing. Then I think for the $20.00, I should buy 4 cans to make it most cost effective. Then I am over the $200 mark for powder and I say "forget it" i'll buy it in 1 lb cans instead. SOO the 5010, WC820, 4895 and sumpin else just got cheaper.

More comments welcome.

David

[StarMetal]

David

To give you idea of how slow 5010 is I've read it was used excusively in the 20mm cannon round, but others say it was used in the 50 cal machinegun run too. Either way both those two rounds used very slow powders.

Joe

[lar45]

A full case with a 165 corelokt gives me about 2200fps. I haven't tried any duplex loads. Sounds like fun though.
What is a good fast powder to use over the primer?
I think I've heard about people useing 4195 and 5gns???
I understand that it's all at my own risk, but what has worked for you?
Maybe I should try some in my 475 Linebaugh and start it off with a few grains of RedDot? The BFR is strong and I doubt I could hurt it unless I tried to.
Also I have used it in my 45-70 BFR. don't shoot this across your chronograph!!
I did and now have several grain sized holes in the display cover.

[StarMetal]

Lar,

I use a fast powder like Bullseye, Unique, and Clays....and only like 1-2 grs.

I don't think 5010 would perfort very well in big bore straight wall cartridges, but hey, you can try.

Joe

[Buckshot]

[QUOTE=lar45]
What is a good fast powder to use over the primer?
I think I've heard about people useing 4195 and 5gns???
I understand that it's all at my own risk, but what has worked for you?
QUOTE]

.............Check castpics.net load data for the 45-70. There is full load WC872 data, and then with 1-5grs 4198 as an igniter. Other people have used other powder against the primer. Ammohead used 3031. My thinking for using 4198 was that it wasn't so energetic as to cause a useless 'Pressure Bubble" between the casehead and main charge.

I found 3.0grs to do what I wanted. That was to clean up the WC872, but it also added a 100 fps or so. A friend has a 35 Whelen built on a Turk and was very happy with a casefull and the Ly 358009 at about 1800 fps. Accuracy at 100 yards was about 2" (scoped). He duplexed it with 4198 and got 2050 fps with about the same accuracy.

RE: Pressure Bubble. I never did experience it in the 45-70, but I did in the 45-90. I suppose the heavier charge of WC872 was just too much resistance for the igniter to get started and moving. It must have acted like a plug of sorts. I used it in a Bertram case which were all a bit small for the chamber. They all had developed a modest bulge ahead of the solid head. Nothing to be overly concerned about, as it was only a couple thou evenly around the case. They'd been fired many times. This one instance of the first try with the duplex had that bulge about straight out. Plus the primer was FLAT!

...............Buckshot

[John F. Lang]

Many of us on this site use Mil Surp powders for shooting everything from 30/30 to the really big bangers.
What you may want to do if you are going to shoot these powders is obtain a copy of TM 43-0001-27 from Hi-Tech Ammunition at www.HI-TECHAMMO.com for the price of $15.00.
This manual has all the ammo specs and MOST IMPORTANT it lists all the powders for the ammo.
5010 was never used in the 20 MM cannon, at least not in the copy of the manual I have. WC872 was the primary powder for the 20MM cannon ammo and is a great powder for belted mags and for cast bullets. I know, I have 8 8lb jugs of it.
SR4759 is great for cast loads and has been unavailable until just recently. Bartlett Reloaders(my place to order) is listing this powder again. It was used in 30/06 frangabile ammo for training and eventhough it is pull down powder, works great for cast bullets.
Gibrass.com will get you to Bartlett reloaders site.
OR IF YOU OR ANYONE ELSE is intrested, type in FM50G and you will go to a site called Pentagon Publishing and you will see the 50,count'em, 50(actually I counted 52) manuals will be displayed on the screen for you. The second on the list is the TM 43-0001-27 data sheet file that I was just talking about.
This CD-Rom only costs $17.00 and has so many good manuals on it for guns we all have and use that I ordered a copy for myself even though I have a hard copy of the TM with my reloading books.
If you are new to this site you will love it. You will find people here that can answer just about any question that you have, however, when it comes to data being available in hard form, get a copy if you can so YOU can also look at how the mil surp powders were used in the first place and this will start you down the right path to the proper use of this product.
Many mil surp powders have never been released, as you will see if you get a copy of the manual but there are enough to keep us shooters happy just about forever. The WC on the powder designation means that the powder was made by Winchester.
Incidently, I will never use a duplex load as I have seen two destroyed by duplex loads. I stay away from that type of loading. You must decide for yourself.

John

[Bass Ackward]

Incidently, I will never use a duplex load as I have seen two destroyed by duplex loads. I stay away from that type of loading. You must decide for yourself.

John

John,

Thanks. Good information.

Yep. Duplex loading seperates the advanced reloaders. The idea is to get the pressure up fast enough so the powder will burn evenly. Same theory as a magnum primer or drilling out flash holes.

But I am bass ackwards again. In the few instances that I duplexed, I reversed the order. I use the slow stuff to start the bullet off as slow as possible and take up case space. Then follow that up by filling the case full of something faster. This provides no accuracy edge what so ever over the "correct" powder selection and has no use in 95% of case designs. Where it does work after lots of trial and error (PIA) is in over bore cartridges with lead. This was the only way I could get a 30-378 to shoot lead at higher velocities.

I sometimes wonder if this would be the answer to the fast twist blues, even if the case is not really over bore?

[gutshot_again]

Or download a free copy of TM 43-0001-27 in pdf at http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/

[John F. Lang]

Thanks for the heads up on the web site.
I wasn't aware of that one.
That manual is right up to date.
John