375 JDJ - Rifle/Encore - Cast Loads

[depoloni]

Been reading and reading here for months. I've searched the forum and have found some good threads with a bit of info on this cartridge and people's general experiences, but I'm curious if anyone out there has developed any real data on rifle length barrels. This cartridge is generally most popular in the contender/encore pistol barrel setups.

I've been using the following:
Firearm: 24" Encore BBL, 1:14" twist - chambered from a 375 Win by Mike Bellm
Bullet: RCBS 37-250-FN, lubed with LBT Blue and sized to .376" (gas checked)
Alloy: Presently settled on WW+2% tin, which usually drops (water quenched) at around 13-14 BHN for me - bullets drop at 268.5-269 grains

My barrel cerrosafed at a throat of .376-.3765" MAX, the groove diameter measures at .376" pretty even near as I can tell.
I hand lead-lapped this barrel before starting to shoot cast bullets, started with jacketed initially. Accuracy was pretty good with several jacketed loads, on the order of 1-1.5" MOA (at 100yds, at least) with several including the Sierra 250 BT, the Hornady 300 RN, and the Hornady 270 SP.

I've been getting the following load results since "refining" what I'm doing to this point, at least...
Seems to like H-4895 over benchmark with CB, the only two I've tried yet. Most accurate at 1950fps or so (a 39.0gr load) at approx. 1.5 MOA. Still shoots "minute of dangerous" at 100 yards with velocities kicked all the way up to 2350, but I stopped pushing it because accuracy had dropped off to 3-3.5 MOA at that point. And with that bullet anything approaching 2k fps is dead-deer anyway.

I have a lot to learn on casting, just 5 years in but fell hard.

I started with rooster red before finding out more about lubes. Now only lube the bottom two grooves, and switched to LBT blue for most of my rifles. Didn't start out with the bullet seated to just touch the rifling, even though I had room - thing seats 270 Hdy SP's to the base of the neck only, intentionally.

Anyhow, any ideas, bullet or powder suggestions, personal experiences? Excited to listen, learn.

[depoloni]

Perhaps not a well-tread setup, or caliber with CB's. Figured I'd add a little fodder, in case it's of interest.

I did some media-testing with this (like many others)... regrettably haven't yet tested different CB alloys, bullets, velocities against each other yet - and have plans to do so. But I tested the bullet/alloy that shot best for me against a couple of j-word bullets that also shot accurately, just for the heck of it.

Rifle info is listed above. Bullet info is listed in the pic. Can't say that I see ANY reason to keep buying j-word .375 bullets ($$) based on accuracy/terminals seen so far.

Disclaimer: I realize that saturated, stacked newspaper media is not a deer, or an elk, or "literally" comparable to anything but what it is. But I do like that it gives "apples to apples" results if nothing else, between differing bullets, which gives a sense of relative performance at least. And it's a lot of fun.

127085
Follow-up notes:
- Top bullets are my cast RCBS 37-250, versus a Hornady 300gr DGX (middle) and a hornady 300gr DGS solid (bottom).
- Ignore the bottom (DGS solid) result... we stuck a pure lead muffin ingot in the media about 2" deep to see what would happen. And giggle. Blew that muffin apart, turned the jacket inside out, and STILL the core penetrated quite a ways. Like I said, duh, but you gotta have (SAFE!) fun.
- The cast bullet versus the DGX (soft-nose)... I could probably go with a harder alloy, maybe less meat damage on deer at this velocity.
- I decided to hunt with the milder, more accurate load around 1880 fps - but no luck yet on live game unfortunately.

Below pic shows nose-on (left to right):
Unfired CB --- Recovered CB from media test --- Recovered Hornady DGX from media test --- Recovered DGX from media/ingot "test"...
127086

My experience (so far), YMMV, IMO, all that. Blast away, but be nice please :)

[Tar Heel]

Well, the 375-JDJ was designed for handgun length (14") barrels - that's why. The 375 H&H is a fine rifle cartridge in 375 caliber. It was designed for rifle length barrels of >22".

It's sort of like putting a Class-A Top Fuel dragster on the Daytona Speedway. It will go around the track but nowhere near as fast or efficiently as the NASCAR cars. Put that dragster on a drag strip and watch out!

[depoloni]

I realize that the 375 JDJ was initially chambered in handgun length barrels - thus fewer folks have tried them out in rifle barrels. Understandable that there isn't a lot of rifle-length data or testing out there. That said, I would disagree that the cartridge is "inherently" a pistol cartridge despite it's initial origins or a poor fit/option in the rifle barrels.
It has higher powder capacity than the 375 Win, which is the opposite - a cartridge "designed for rifles" that has become somewhat popular in the contender pistol barrels. And then, the 357 is certainly popular in rifles despite its origins, as with many. Guess this is just one of those projects where I get to turn over some fairly fresh earth - certainly adds an element of fun :)
I do agree that the 375 H&H is an excellent rifle caliber, and is most efficient with longer length barrels, as stated.

[Tar Heel]

Perhaps a call to the progeny of that cartridge will change your mind. J.D. Jones picked the 444 Marlin case for a reason. You can reach him at SSK Industries (740-264-0176). We had many a talk about that cartridge and the 411-JDJ aside a roaring fireplace.

It is inherently a cartridge optimized for a 14" barrel. Call J.D. He will talk your ear off about it. :-)

[depoloni]

I understand completely and am fully aware of the history of the cartridge, having gone through the process of having a barrel re-chambered, working loads, finding data, etc. I understand what you mean in that it is "inherently" a pistol cartridge. But it does gain appreciable velocity in a longer barrel and has plenty of capacity to take advantage of the longer tube. Certainly seems like a good "pistol cartridge in a rifle" so to speak :)

What inherent disadvantages do you see, if any, in the caliber as a rifle cartridge?
Or, any other thoughts about the platform as such?

Just looking to see what if anything people had found in their own travails, maybe open a little discussion on the topic and/or caliber.

[Tar Heel]

Here is a good bullet for the rascal from Accurate Molds.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=37-265D-D.png

[Tar Heel]

What inherent disadvantages do you see, if any, in the caliber as a rifle cartridge?
Or, any other thoughts about the platform as such?

Your question is directed to the minions. Why not direct it to J.D. himself? You have an opportunity to address the inventor of the cartridge and pick his brain about the subject. I would jump on that.

I am not blasting you friend.....I am trying to get you connected with the subject matter expert on the 375-JDJ which is the cartridge inventor himself. Call the man. Ask him your questions. Post the answers here and educate us all.

[depoloni]

You know? You are correct. I should do that.
I spoke with JD years ago, once, picked his brain about his 225 JDJ when I was working on a *slightly* different 225 AI. Very knowledgeable, and was extremely forthcoming and helpful.

I still leave the question directed to the minions as well - interested in anyone else's personal experiences/trials/tribulations.
I sincerely appreciate your responding to my thread, and offering up your advice! I apologize for the defensiveness initially, I was mistaken, thought it was a "you shoulda bought an H+H" thing initially.

That stuff happens on the web, naturally, I'm still adjusting to this place. Everyone's extremely kind and helpful... it's weird. :)

[DR Owl Creek]

Depoloni,

I don't have a 375 JDJ, but that's a great test and report!

Dave

[Tar Heel]

Depoloni,

I don't have a 375 JDJ, but that's a great test and report!

Dave

You NEED one you know.....


http://youtu.be/jhCVeeflQ-s

[JohnH]

I worked with an Encore 26" stainless 375 JDJ for a time, you can find stuff I wrote about it here. I never got my barrel to shoot worth two hoots with cast, it would drill silver dollar size holes with Hornady's 200 grainer all day. That said, from a rifle it is a ballistic twin of the 9.3x57 Mauser. I can only think that hits on whitetails would be obvious and unmistakable. For whitetails I don't think the cartridge needs to be driven to full potential, if you can get good accuracy from Lymans 375449 at 1800 to 2000 fps I belive you will find that to be an excellent thumper. I had a 38-55 I drove that same boolit to 1750 fps I took two deer with, as a woods cartridge, either the 38-55 or 375 JDJ driving that boolit at such speeds is as ideal a cartridge as I can imagine. Didn't turn 'em to blood pudding, you could eat right to the hole but the does were DRT. I've no doubt the boolit would transverse a deer stem to stern. I once shot a five gallon bucket of sand hoping to get an idea of something I could use to catch boolits. First shot was through and through (38-55 w/ 375449 @ 1750 fps) Well, that idea didn't work. Idiot me let a guy trade me out of the 38-55 and I traded the 375 JDJ barrel for a 25-06 barrel that has performed very well for me with the RCBS 257120. These days I ish I had hung on to the 375. With jacketed boolits it was very accurate, and I think would have served me very well so loaded. I also think that over time I would have explored the throat dimensions more thoroughly as I believe that any barrel that will shoot jacketed will shoot cast. That barrel is the only barrel I've found that not to be true. Experience or lack thereof I guess. Good luck with your endeavor. I believe you will be well pleased with the rifle. It is a good short range heavy (200 yds) that should kill far better than paper might say. It takes a lot to stop a circa 300 grain boolit with an MV of 2200-2300 fps.

[JohnH]

I worked with an Encore 26" stainless 375 JDJ for a time, you can find stuff I wrote about it here. I never got my barrel to shoot worth two hoots with cast, it would drill silver dollar size holes with Hornady's 200 grainer all day. That said, from a rifle it is a ballistic twin of the 9.3x57 Mauser. I can only think that hits on whitetails would be obvious and unmistakable. For whitetails I don't think the cartridge needs to be driven to full potential, if you can get good accuracy from Lymans 375449 at 1800 to 2000 fps I belive you will find that to be an excellent thumper. I had a 38-55 I drove that same boolit to 1750 fps I took two deer with, as a woods cartridge, either the 38-55 or 375 JDJ driving that boolit at such speeds is as ideal a cartridge as I can imagine. Didn't turn 'em to blood pudding, you could eat right to the hole but the does were DRT. I've no doubt the boolit would transverse a deer stem to stern. I once shot a five gallon bucket of sand hoping to get an idea of something I could use to catch boolits. First shot was through and through (38-55 w/ 375449 @ 1750 fps) Well, that idea didn't work. Idiot me let a guy trade me out of the 38-55 and I traded the 375 JDJ barrel for a 25-06 barrel that has performed very well for me with the RCBS 257120. These days I ish I had hung on to the 375. With jacketed boolits it was very accurate, and I think would have served me very well so loaded. I also think that over time I would have explored the throat dimensions more thoroughly as I believe that any barrel that will shoot jacketed will shoot cast. That barrel is the only barrel I've found that not to be true. Experience or lack thereof I guess. Good luck with your endeavor. I believe you will be well pleased with the rifle. It is a good short range heavy (200 yds) that should kill far better than paper might say. It takes a lot to stop a circa 300 grain boolit with an MV of 2200-2300 fps.