FASTEST method

[snommittj]

Hey guys, I hope this isn't a repeat topic. Did a search, but didn't come up with anything. My question is, how can I cast as many 230gr. LRN bullets as possible in the shortest amt. of time with the smallest amt. of work. I am currently using a RCBS bottom pour pot, with RCBS 2 cavity mold and RCBS sizer/luber press. I am thinking of ordering a Lee 6 cavity which should speed things up considerably, but what about sizing/lubing. I'm not too familiar with all of the other methods that might save me time and keep me on the range more than in the shop. By the way, I am shooting about 500 rds a week from a 1911. I need a 230 gr. bullet going about 775 fps. Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, JT:Fire:

[MT Gianni]

If quality is important to you at all read the sticky on the BruceB speed casting and consider it. Lee Liquid alox is probably the fastest but I have not experienced the same level of accuracy as with other lubes. Gianni

[jcadwell]

A 6 cavity mold will speed things up if you can keep the pot full of hot lead. I usually preheat the lead ingots on my turkey burner and ladle the lead into my bottom pour lee. Then I never have to stop casting. You could easily turn out 500 bullets an hour.

I size my cast with a Lee sizer. I can do 500 bullets in a little over 10 minutes.

A tumble lube mold will make lubing easy, with Lee Liquid Alox. Works well enough for mild loads.

[randyrat]

Run two pots if $$$ is not an object. Start by filling one up full the other about 3/4 full. Drop your sprue into your 3/4 full pot while your pouring out of the other. Now when the first gets low add more and start on the other pot. Rotate and time it just as one is close to empty the other should be ready. Or as previously mentioned have a turkey burner pre heating ingots. You could also have a hot plate to keep your mold hot if you need to stop to fill/take a phone call/bathroom break.... That always slows you down-waiting for your mold to get hot again. Safety first, then keep things on your bench at a comfortable height/in reach/organized. A little planning ahead will make your casting bench safer and easier to put out bullets quicker. That should help you a little.

[leftiye]

Well, ya could get a Master Caster or one a them. Can't tell that I'm totally unconcerned with speed can ya?

[sundog]

If you want speed then get a Lee 6 banger. I do not care for the tumble lube boolits, but that would be the way to go, but if I had to do that I'd thin the LLA and use two coats. Of course, since you want speed, put on one coat not thinned and you're done. At least you would not have to handle all the boolits individually multiple times. I'm not sure I'd even size them.

Lee has two designs that might work, the 230 RN and the 230 TC, both available in tumble lube models. I've shot the standard loob grove version of the RN, and while it feeds and functions VERY well, it is not the most accurate boolit. Would it work for 'practical' pistol courses where targets are cardboard sillywets and steel poppers and plates? Yup.

How else could you be shooting that many rounds?

[runfiverun]

i would look at a mould that would drop a consistent boolit maybe go with the master caster
easy for a new guy to run quickly you will want to contact a foundry to buy yuor lead
then get a star luber.
500 made sized & lubed and maybe loaded if you got a good running 650. in a good day.

[454PB]

A Star sizer is the fastest hand operated means of sizing and lubing boolits.

[KYCaster]

H&G #34 ten cavity mould...40 lb. Magma bottom pour pot...80 lb. Waage pre-melt pot...Star sizer with air option...Oh, and a hot plate to pre heat the mould.

One hour to prep and pre heat...cast 1000+ per hour for 4 hours...size and lube 1500 per hour for 2.75 hours.

If you can stand the pace, you can cast and lube enough boolits in one day to shoot for two months at your 500 per week rate.

It's possible...I have done it, but the wrists and back won't take the abuse any more...I have to let machines do the repetitive work now.

Jerry

BTW...I could never understand how LLA can save any time. The instructions say, place the lubed boolits base down on waxed paper to dry. Seems to me, if you have to handle each boolit individually, then you've lost any advantage of lubing them in bulk.

[Bass Ackward]

I don't know how to answer this from a "true speed" perspective. And I am not trying to be smart here, or criticize one thing over another.

I have never seen a guy that was focused and fanatical on range time, that wasn't dissatisfied with even having to take time necessary to reload. So adding the extra step of casting his own, that is eventually going to be compounded by the search for metal and processing etc, is going to be over worked and dissatisfied with the whole process. Speed is going to lead to fatigue which is eventually going to beat up his equipment. Replacement will eat up the advantages of cost in the first place.

Someone looking at a true speed aspect, should avoid their time altogether. That means either buying their bullets, or investing in a mechanical casting system that lets them do something else while the machine takes it's time and does whats needed.

Some honest soul searching here could save a lot of expense and wasted time.

[snommittj]

:-DWell, I agree totally. Even though I do enjoy casting and reloading somewhat, it would be much mo better for me to haul ass down to the local gun shop and buy anywhere from 1500 to 2000 rds a month so I could concentrate on my shooting and not be bothered with anything else. Unfortunately, I am not independently wealthy, so this probably isn' t gonna happen anytime soon, although it would be nice. To be honest, I cast for 1 reason only, necessity. I've got the stuff to do it with(just looking for realistically faster method) and w/w's are free. And I work for the Sheriff's Office, so money is what it ALL boils down to. Your right, I do hate even having to take time from shooting to load mags, but when I win the lottery, I'll buy all my rounds and hire me a midget and a hooker to load em' for me.:mrgreen:

[snommittj]

Hey guys, I really appreciate all of the help and advice that you guys have given me over the last couple of days. I have already won a Lee 6 banger(228gr LRN) on Ebay last night and am looking into the Lee sizer/luber deal. I know there are probably faster and better deals, but this seems to balance speed, practicality and budget. I am gonna give this a try and see if it speeds up the process for me a little w/o sacrificing too much quality. Please feel free to send me more advice. I enjoy learning how to make things easier and better. I think it is pretty interesting to see all of the different perspectives here. Some are here for the "art" of the casting, some are here b/c it is a hobby, some are here b/c they make a living doing these things and then there are some that are here totally out of necissity, b/c they shoot alot and cant afford not to be here. Everybody's perspective is definitely appreciated very much. Thanks alot, JT:drinks::drinks::drinks::drinks::drinks::drinks: :drinks::drinks:

[sundog]

JT, the Lee 6 bangers are a cut above the smaller Lee moulds, but still not the quality of a good SAECO, RCBS, or even most Lymans. But you prolly already know that. When you get that mould, spend a few minutes cleaning it up, loobing it, and watch for galling. Properly cared for that Lee mould can and will last a long, long time, and produce some pretty good boolits. Some of the fellers on this board swear by Bull Plate - it is purdy good stuff. At the very least 'color' your block tops and sprue plate bottom with graphite (carpenter pencil).

Don't forget, you need a set of handles. The 6 cav mould do not come with handles.

Have you done the math? If you average 2 throws a minute, that's 720 boolits an hour. When you get a good rhythm going, have preheated ingots standing by, and everything is going your way, it can be much faster. So, let's say you hit 1K per hour. In a couple hours you have a month supply. Tumble loob only takes a few minutes. It that fast enough? Since you already have casting stuff, all you're out is what you paid for that mould on ebay. Thirty of forty bucks, plus some handles. Paid for on the first casting session. That's cheap enough, eh?

Let us all know how it works out.

[38 Super Auto]

I agree with BassA's comment. I believe most of us here reload and cast as part of a larger, all encompassing (all consuming?) gun hobby. I started reloading 20 years ago as a way to shoot more without going broke. A friend got me interested in casting many years ago.

What I have found along the way is that I like the process of manufacturing boolits and ammunition for my small collection of rigs.

With ammunition and bullet costs increasing faster than Teddy Kennedy's daily alcohol intake, I can't ever see going back to buying centerfire ammunition, but if I didn't like the process of casting and reloading, I would probably shoot less and spend time with other hobbies.

That being said, I have some suggestions, that I have picked up over the years and from various forums:

1) Use a Lee 6-cav - do the Lee-menting techniques if you have difficult bullet drop or wrinkled noses, or incomplete base fillout. Finishing out the cavities by lapping and improving venting will make big difference in your quality and will reduce frustration level

2) Ingot out your WWs in 100-200 lb batches for uniformity

3) Use a hot plate to preheat and stage your ingots and pre-heat your mold

4) Run your pot hot enough so that you can replenish every 60 boolits or so (assume 2# ingots)

5) Water drop your bullets in a large SS bowl or bucket, so you don't have to mess around - you'll get less damage

6) Place a damp sponge on your casting table - after the srpue hardens (changes contrast) place mold, sprue plate down on sponge for 1-2 sec. This will flash cool it and allow you to increase # of casting cycles/minute

7) Cut the sprue and drop it in the pot or cut sprue and refill mold - while next sprue is solidifying place last sprue in pot.

8) Organize your casting table, so that you don't have to get up or move around alot.

I think the key is keeping the process as close as possible to continuous flow. You'll find a rhythm. Always be thinking about ways to improve your quality and throughput.

If you can afford it, buy a Star sizer, either used or from Magma Eng.

If you buy quality equipment and take care of it, you'll be able to sell it if need be and upgrade to something nicer.

[BruceB]

At the considerable risk of being seen as "blowing my own horn", let me refer y'all to an article I wrote on "Speedcasting".

Go click on "Homepage" in the toolbar at the top of this page, and then click on "Member's Articles" over on the left side. You'll find the article there.

The process, as described, works exceedingly well for me.

STANDARD two-cavity moulds, RCBS, Lyman, Lee, whatever...will yield 400-500 bullets per hour, and four-cavity Lymans will push or exceed 800 per hour. It's not difficult, nor is it particularly tiring (at least to me, now almost 65 years of age). As noted in the article, quality is just fine, as well. Quite a few members of this Board have witnessed the whole routine in action.

Note that the process includes many, if not most, of the methods already described on this thread.

[clintsfolly]

also at the range hire a mag stuffing wench!!!!! range time is alot more fun then clint

[sundog]

Just thought of something else to pass along:

http://home.windstream.net/corkyconnell/mould_pics/mouldpic1_35pc.jpg


http://home.windstream.net/corkyconnell/mould_pics/mouldpic4_35pc.jpg

http://home.windstream.net/corkyconnell/mould_pics/mouldpic5_35pc.jpg


The red arrows point to loob points, galling potential, and the retaining screw for the sprue plate hinge hinge screw, which on some of the moulds seems to want to work it way loose.

I clean and lee-ment all of my moulds before the first use.

Also check the area around the handle screw holes real good. Deburr as needed so the blocks don't bind on handles - usually a flat file run in the handle groove takes of that.

Be sure to loob the alignment pins, and sprue plate hinge pin and hold down.

If needed, a light smoking with a wood stick match or butane lighter makes the boolits drop easier. I would not use mould prep on the Lee moulds.

[Bob Krack]

I don't know how to answer this from a "true speed" perspective. And I am not trying to be smart here, or criticize one thing over another.

I have never seen a guy that was focused and fanatical on range time, that wasn't dissatisfied with even having to take time necessary to reload. So adding the extra step of casting his own, that is eventually going to be compounded by the search for metal and processing etc, is going to be over worked and dissatisfied with the whole process. Speed is going to lead to fatigue which is eventually going to beat up his equipment. Replacement will eat up the advantages of cost in the first place.

Someone looking at a true speed aspect, should avoid their time altogether. That means either buying their bullets, or investing in a mechanical casting system that lets them do something else while the machine takes it's time and does whats needed.

Some honest soul searching here could save a lot of expense and wasted time.

Bass - don't take the world so serious.

I am retired, love to shoot, cast, and load. Gotta shoot to cast and load.

I am not about to go out into the woods or into the desert -by myself- and shoot enough to justify the time and "labor" of even cleaning my own guns and equipment - not to mention the time and expense of the travel.

Kinda like playing chess, pool, or cards by yourself.

I love to go shooting with my kids or grandkids and maybe even take along a couple of the great-grandkids. THEN - it is worth all the casting, loading, cleaning, travel, and other "expenses" of shooting.

The casting and loading is a time consuming but interesting hobby. Allows a wandering, wondering mind the time and ability to do other important things the young growing, fighting, struggling man's mind did not have the leisure to do.

I'll keep casting and loading just as long as the young'uns keep helping burn'em up.

Back to the original question though, a six banger mold and spray lube without sizing would be a speed(ier) method of procuring the boolits to allow the shooting as asked by snommittj.

And yes, it certainly looks like he must be shooting combat of some sort rather than bullseye - therefore - tack driving accuracy is not an issue.

Vic

[happy7]

For 45 ACP I also want quantity and fast. The rounds go through my pistol so fast, I don't want to spend too much time creating them. I have the Lee 452-228-1R 6 banger and after I cast them I just tumble lube them and load them unsized. Very quick. You can lube a couple thousand in like five minutes not counting drying time for the lube. I did a little experiment. I sized and lubed some with a 452 sizer in my lyman sizer and bullshop speed green and loaded them along with some unsized and tumble lubed. I loaded them the same and shot separate targets at the range. Both varieties shot about the same which was about 2" at twenty yards, and that is all I am looking for from practice ammo. So, a Lee six banger, tumble lube and a progressive press equals lots of ammo with a minimum of time and effort.

[snommittj]

this has turned into a great thread for those of us who put a whole bunch of rounds down range. You should call this the "IPSC, IDPA, COMBAT Casting thread" I know that most of you "old pros" shudder at the thought of sacrificing any quality at all for the sake of quantity, but to be honest, my personal situation only calls for so much accuracy and a whole lot of friggen bullets. You guys pegged it right off the bat, I am a combat shooter. I require about 2-2 1/2" groups at 25yds., which isn't that hard to achieve with decent loads. But, the big thing is that I require shooting so many bullets so that I can shoot groups like that at warp speed that it is very expensive and time consuming to keep the mags stoked. All of the replies that I have received in the last couple of days has put me on the right path, and I appreciate it very much. Thanks guys and I will keep watching for new and better ideas to keep me shooting good bullets as fast as possible. :Fire:

[mroliver77]

After reading Bruce B's method I adopted it for myself. As Bruce states, it is not hurrying or pushing things just doing it rythmatically
and taking advantage of cooling the mold and dropping in a bucket where one never has to adjust boolits on a towel. I dont abuse my equipment this way as I open and close the mold carefully. I keep tools close and organized and use a preheater.
The most productive I have been is casting with a friend that uses the Bruce B method. One casts while the other feeds the pots. WE take 15-30 min shifts and never stop once we are going. We smoked through aprox 200 lbs of alloy in a few hours one afternoon. We both use the star sizers, fast clean and easy.
It was asked again of those using alox, do you stand each boolit on its base? Wipe each base?
J