223 reduced loads and IMR4227, Advice needed

[cold1]

I picked up a Handi rifle in 223. I want to see if I can do reduced loads using 4227. Why 4227, well all the other pistol powders are not available to me. Unique, 296, Red dot, green dot, blue dot are all missing from the shelves around here. 4227 works in everything else I have and I did find some standard loads for the 223 with 4227, max charge is 17 grains. I have read several published articles on using the fast pistol powders but none for the 4227.

I would like to make reduced loads, aka cat sneeze, that duplicate 22LR or subsonic. I will be using a Bator bullet cast with soft lead and tumble lubed.

There was great article written about developing reduced loads using the fast powders. I read it several times. What I took away from it was to reduce the powder charge until you stick a bullet in the bore. Remove the stuck bullet then go back to the load before the stick and call that your minimum. From there you adjust the load to get what you are after, usually a compromise between desired velocity and accuracy.

Anybody used 4227 for reduced loads?

Any reason that 4227 shouldnt be used reduced?

Anybody got advice on developing a reduced load?

[RickinTN]

I use IMR 4227 for reduced loads in 223 but with jacketed bullets, not cast. I load 15.5 grains with a Sierra 55 grain "blitz" bullet and get great accuracy. I'll estimate this produces somewhere in the 2,600 to 2,700 fps range. I have not used IMR 4227 reduced as much as you would probably need for cast in the velocity range you are mentioning so I'm not much help there.
Rick

[Mr opinionated]

I am doing the same thing you are, i pick up a bull barreled Rossi 223 1/12 twist about 2 month ago so i can shot on the cheap, i have a good load using the Bater mold that drops at 50 GR not 55GR like advertised sized to 225 and Imr 4227@ 12.5 good accuracy after shot 50 rounds are so, on paper its about 2100 FPS will check that at a later date also using Titegroup with some success. Have a cabinet full of powders to work on to wet and cold for me right now sun needs to be shining.
you need to start here reading Beagles article on what he has done with the 223 and cast, it is very informative and will give you a little head start. i will post my finding as they happen There's a lot of info here so start reading.

Link to beagles articles

http://castpics.net/dpl/index.php/the-library/cartridge-specific-articles


MR O

[woody1]

FWIW It is my considered opinion that you will not be happy with 4227 for anything near subsonic loads in your 223's. It is too slow. I predict ignition and burn will be erratic thus velocities will be also. That said, I've never tried it. I have used Dupont/IMR PB with success in very light loads for the 223. It lights easily and burns fast. I don't have the load data at hand but it was less than listed in any books and the velocity was marginally subsonic. No reason any of the other faster burning shotgun powders shouldn't do about as well. Regards, Woody

[Larry Gibson]

FWIW It is my considered opinion that you will not be happy with 4227 for anything near subsonic loads in your 223's. It is too slow. I predict ignition and burn will be erratic thus velocities will be also. That said, I've never tried it. I have used Dupont/IMR PB with success in very light loads for the 223. It lights easily and burns fast. I don't have the load data at hand but it was less than listed in any books and the velocity was marginally subsonic. No reason any of the other faster burning shotgun powders shouldn't do about as well. Regards, Woody

+1.

Larry Gibson

[cold1]

Yall were right, The 4227 did not give me what I was looking for. It was all I had at the time. I was able to pick up some red dot at a gun show and I was able to get what I was looking for in this round. I managed to drop the speed down to 650FPS with the reddot. That was as low as I wanted to go and that was to see if I could get there. It gave great accuracy at that speed, about .60 inches at 25 yards. I settled for a 1200-1300fps load for my plinking rounds.

With the 4227, the first round I tried was at 9 grains. It gave me a hang fire. After that I started tilting the cartridge up before firing. I had 5 rounds of each loading starting at 9 grains and increased powder charges by 0.5g for each 5 rounds. I maxed out at 13g. This was my first time using cast boolits in a rifle. I found out I did not use enough lube, Alox. The last 6 inches of bore had huge chunks of lead in it. It took a while but I got it all out. The boolits did not have GCs on them either and was cast from pure lead. Then I found the reddot.

Now th Bators are wearing GCs, and pan lubed with a close approximation of 45/45/10 lube and a coating of Alox. Belt and suspenders for me until I get more experience with cast boolits in rifles.

[RickinTN]

The pure lead could lead to many of your problems. I think no doubt there is a need for a harder alloy.
Rick

[.22-10-45]

In a Ruger No.1 .222Rem, I am using 10grs. H4227 under either a Saeco 55gr. or Eagan MX3 .55gr. bullet. What I have done lately is run either bullet into a Corbin reloading-press type swage die ot repform nose shape..but more important..to square up G.C. with bullet base & body. using these swaged bullets, I can duplicate best match jacketed loads as far as accuracy at 100yds. (7/16").

[tsubaki]

Have you looked to see if Trail Boss is available in your area?
Their reputed load with a 55gr FMJ is 1074fps.
I began experimenting some but have yet to conclude anything. At the low velocities the 55gr Ballistic Tips keyholed but the 55gr PSP did fine in my 1:12" twist.
It will probably be a while before I cast any but I got a Bator mould the other day and am considering the same thing.