Modern Minie or an Old Minie?

[Ironman]

I use a metal detector to look for relics from the past. While detecting an old ghost town from the 1860's I found this 4 ring bullet. Almost everything I found there was mid 1860's to early 1870's.

I have been told recently that it is a modern bullet. Can I get any confirmation from anyone on this forum. I was told that it is probably a Lyman bullet. All the bullets that I have seen from Lyman that were .58 caliber had a flat top.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank You!
Larry

[Ironman]

It has a raised half of a spoke inside of cavity.

Thanks for looking!
Larry

[hydraulic]

.58 calibre mini ball. Civil war era.

[Saint]

The walls are very thick and it has a very deep cavity. This is not really common among modern conicals. I would have to agree with Hydraulic.

[Ironman]

hydraulic - yes I agree the one on the left definitely is a .58 minie I dug in South Carolina. The 4 ringer in question was found in a ghost town in Nevada. Experts on another forum say it is a modern minie. Then again, another expert of sorts disagrees with them because of the patina on the 4 ringer.

How sure are you of it being the real deal? I really hope it is , everything else I found from there was old. I didn't find any other modern items at all.

Ironman

[hydraulic]

Well-ll-ll-ll, now you got me thinking. At first glance the lead oxide on the 4 groove bullet appeared to be aged, but on second look, I don't know. That thick skirt is toublesome, also, and I don't recall a 4 groove bullet among those I have found, and I disposed of mine years ago. Others will chime in here, I am sure. Incidentally, be careful where you use that metal detector, especially out west, because an awfully lot of land in western states belong to the Bureau of Land Management, and they take a dim view of what they call "looting". I worked for the U.S. Forest Service in Wyoming for several years, and have found a great many projectile points (arrowheads) which I turned in to our archeologist along with a description of where they were found. After I retired, last year, one of the guys came to me and said, "All right, Charley, just how many of those arrowheads did you keep for yourself". None. Why keep them? They'll just wind up in a cigar box on someones garage sale, someday, and nobody will know anything about them.

[AllanD]

your "experts" are presuming that it is modern based on the fact that it doesn't match their previous experience with
MILITARY bullets which were standardized for all the obvious reasons.

why presume that people with sporting arms can't drop bullets too?

To me it looks like bullet for an early breechloading percussion sharps.

the "bore riding nose" and the grove diameter skirt
would make it practically impossible to seat square to the bore.
a conventional Minie is a uniform diameter and the act of firing expands the skirt.


hydraulic , yeah you turned them in good for you.
You want to know where the bulk of the ones you
turned in probably wound up?

Those that didn't wind up at home in someone's cigar box
wound up sitting on a piece of cotton in a divided box in a
drawer in the basement of some museaum where it will
likely NEVER see the light of day.
And I'll bet you that if and when they do see the light of day
it'll be when the museum liquidates some of their surplus items.

You could probably pave your choice of any two western states
with a mixture of arrowheads and the proper ammount of tar
if you manage to bring together all the arrowheads ever
found in one place.

Yes, many things should be preserved, but museum people
can get a bit over the top.
And in many cases the difference between looting and conservation
is entirely in the eye of the person that DOES NOT have the item in question, and museum people are just as prone to larceny.

I remember the case of a complete T-rex that was found by one group on PRIVATE property. the government seized it claiming it was recovered from BLM land. It was later sold by the government at auction to the highest bidder BEFORE the court case was settled in FAVOR of the people who originally found it.

they are still fighting to get the money because any hope of getting the T-rex back is laughable.

Frankly if something like that happened to me I'd start a testicle collection, and nobody on the other side would be immune to a visit from my knife.

Liars or thieves, then there's government which is both.


AD

[hydraulic]

Allen: You're going to love this one. I was a guide at Custer Battlefield in the 80's just after the archeological survey was done after the fire of '83. I had a group of visitors down in Deep Ravine and we had stoped by Mitch Boyer's marker when I looked down and saw what I thought was a pebble in the path. I stuck my pocket knife under it and out popped a .45-55 undated Benet inside primed unfired cartridge. My wife was working at the desk in the visitor center when I came in and showed her what I had found. She insisted I turn it in to Niel Mangum, Battlefield Historian at that time. It now resides in the basement archives along with several thousand others that have been found there. I was the first person to touch that cartridge after it was dropped on the 25th of June, in 1876. Mitch Boyer may have been the man who dropped it.

[Saint]

http://www.vision.net.au/~pwood/aug05.htm
It's tough to say. I am by no means anywhere near an expert but i think it is authentic. Here is a link to some examples, there is an image about 3/4 down the page. None of them are four groove however.