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koehlerrk
01-02-2015, 11:08 PM
Going to make an order from Powder Inc with a couple buddies, and I'm looking for advice.

I want to try Schutzen powder in my 50 cal TC Hawken. Everyone seems to agree it's very good powder, but here's my quandary.

I caught some flak from people for using FFF Goex in my Hawken... they kept telling me to use FF. Tried it and accuracy was worse, went back to FFF.
No one I shoot with has any experience with Schutzen, but from what I've read, Schutzen runs small on grain size, so FF Schutzen would be roughly equal to FFF Goex. Can anyone here confirm this before we place the order? Am I on the right track with FF Schutzen, or should I be looking at something else?

Thanks in advance,

Rick

fouronesix
01-03-2015, 12:00 AM
I have FFF and FF in both GOEX and Schuetzen. The FFs were handy, so took a look-see.

The FF GOEX kernels are slightly larger than the FF Schuetzen kernels. The GOEX kernels are more angular and have a dull surface finish. The Schuetzen kernels are less angular and have a shiny surface finish. I didn't do a bulk density comparison. For average muzzleloader use, seems like it would be a waste-of-time academic exercise.

I regularly switch from GOEX to Schuetzen to KIK and so on through about 5-10 pound cycles and notice little if any differences among them when used in several different muzzleloaders. All the powders shoot fine.

Some loads and guns seem to favor FFF of whatever brand over FF. Some loads and guns seem to favor FFF of whatever brand over FF. I found a PRB load in one of my 50 cals where FF shoots much cleaner than FFF of the same brand.

The only difference worth mentioning ​is the Schuetzen fouling seems softer/more moist than the others so is a plus when shooting shot strings without swabbing or cleaning- especially when shooting Miniés out of rifle/muskets.

iron mule
01-03-2015, 10:35 AM
here is another option you may want to look at
try graf and sons black powder
my opinion of it is that it is great and cheap i have been using it for more than 10 yrs
as to the size for your hawkin 3f or 2f which ever shoots best in it
i have several smoke poles from 32 cal to 54 cal also have several bpc guns and i use what shoots best and clean in each gun
one 32 likes 2f better than 3f and a 54 prefers 3f over 2f so let the gun tell you which it prefers
good shooting just enjoy the smoke
mule

mooman76
01-03-2015, 11:19 AM
Many BP shooter are now finding out that the old adage of using 2f in 45 or 50 cal and higher has no merit just like you can't get good accuracy with anything but soft lead RBs.

koehlerrk
01-03-2015, 11:55 AM
ironmule, Grafs BP is just re-labeled Schutzen, they even say it's made by Wano in Germany... same company that makes Schutzen.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/5404

Never heard of a 32 liking FF, but my Dad's 54 loves FFF, so yeah, each rifle is an individual.

Sounds like I'm on the right track getting a mix from Powder Inc.

waksupi
01-03-2015, 12:51 PM
I use 3f in everything. I'm on I think my 6th case of Schutzen now, so I must like it!

mainiac
01-03-2015, 05:34 PM
schutzen powder is good stuff!! Alot of my rifles get shot without wiping between shots,,and shutzen is exellent for this,cause as stated above,the fowling seems to remain softer then goex,,the 7-8th shot seats with about the same pressure......

Blackdog
01-03-2015, 08:30 PM
Is it expensive? What's it run/lb?

fouronesix
01-03-2015, 08:56 PM
Is it expensive? What's it run/lb?

Go to Powder Inc or Graf on the net- run the numbers. The Graf Wano powder IS Schuetzen.

Hang Fire
01-05-2015, 03:16 AM
Graf's and Schuetzen are exactly the same powder, made in the same plant and just labeled different.



here is another option you may want to look at
try graf and sons black powder
my opinion of it is that it is great and cheap i have been using it for more than 10 yrs
as to the size for your hawkin 3f or 2f which ever shoots best in it
i have several smoke poles from 32 cal to 54 cal also have several bpc guns and i use what shoots best and clean in each gun
one 32 likes 2f better than 3f and a 54 prefers 3f over 2f so let the gun tell you which it prefers
good shooting just enjoy the smoke
mule

koehlerrk
01-05-2015, 07:07 AM
Thanks everyone.... Schutzen for me it shall be! :-P

Now I just have to wait for the other two guys to make up their minds, but we should be ordering pretty soon.

Thanks all, I will report back when I try it.

Hickok
01-05-2015, 09:17 AM
I shoot a 1859 Sharps Pedersoli 54 cal, and a couple of .58 cal 1853 Enfield rifle muskets. 3f seems to seems to burn cleaner, less fowling, and gives slightly high velocity than 2f in these large bores.

Use what your rifle shoots best, mine likes 3f.

10 ga
01-09-2015, 03:54 AM
All my 50s liked the FFF better for whatever reason. My 58 liked FF and 1.5F and F with no seeming difference. Your experience may be different. 10

Toymaker
01-15-2015, 05:45 PM
Amazing how some folks make guidelines into laws. FFg for 50 and up; FFFg for 50 and below is a place to start for a newbie. Then you play, you test, you change one component at a time, you become familiar with your rifle and improve your performance. My 54 heavy bench likes FFg as does my 54 CVA Hawkens; the 451 Rigby likes both, but I like FFFg; the 50 Izaak Haynes likes FFg while the 40 Izaak Haynes likes FFFg. Just like the marksman, each rifle is an individual.
BTW - I've used any number of different powders. Some weren't worth the percussion cap. Some were good and burn cleaner. But I've found nothing that beats Goex for cost and performance.

koehlerrk
02-05-2015, 08:27 PM
Well, got the email from PowderInc... Ye Holy Black to be delivered next Tuesday. Got a mixed case of Goex and Schutzen, Goex's prices jumped a LOT after January 1, it's now only 15 cents a pound cheaper than Schutzen! Last year it was almost a buck. Anywho... it will be here soon, and as soon as I can get out to the range I will be letting you know how it does.

OverMax
02-06-2015, 03:03 PM
Stick too. What work for you. 2_FF-G or 3_FF-G perhaps Schutzen no big deal with their change up in a 50 cal. But if your really wanting a change for you and your rifle. A darker path than the usual most other fellows follow. Try your hand at making Black. Now there's where you'll encounter mind-boggling entertainment associated with addiction partner.

Hanshi
02-06-2015, 04:48 PM
An alternative that is definitely worthwhile is Jack's Battle Powder from Jack's Powder Keg. It's made by Goex and runs several dollars less then Goex. It only comes in 3F (I use FFF in everything) In most of my guns it gives an increase in velocity over Goex. It appears to be slightly less dense than Goex 3F and will be my go to powder from now on. I've still got plenty from the last case of JBP I ordered.

waksupi
02-06-2015, 08:31 PM
An alternative that is definitely worthwhile is Jack's Battle Powder from Jack's Powder Keg. It's made by Goex and runs several dollars less then Goex. It only comes in 3F (I use FFF in everything) In most of my guns it gives an increase in velocity over Goex. It appears to be slightly less dense than Goex 3F and will be my go to powder from now on. I've still got plenty from the last case of JBP I ordered.

How is the accuracy with that? It is supposedly more or less floor sweepings.

koehlerrk
02-07-2015, 01:18 AM
Stick too. What work for you. 2_FF-G or 3_FF-G perhaps Schutzen no big deal with their change up in a 50 cal. But if your really wanting a change for you and your rifle. A darker path than the usual most other fellows follow. Try your hand at making Black. Now there's where you'll encounter mind-boggling entertainment associated with addiction partner.

Ummm, no, not ready for that... yet. Had a great high school chem teacher, and learned enough to be very careful when dealing with items that could generate a "vigorous exothermic reaction." I'll let others do that for now since I really don't have a good place to be safe while doing such things.