help with casting vs powdercoat.

[oopso]

I am new to casting but hesitate as the more I read the more I become cautious. Been reloading for years and literally give away 80% of what I reload. I do this as I want to encourage young people to get into shooting and enjoy the sport/hobby/pastime ect. If I find a young married who wants to shoot I give him/her ammo at my cost as I could not afford shooting for pleasure till I was in my late 30`s.
Thanks to Santa I now have every thing to start casting pistol bullets. I have been chasing COWW for a year and have a good supply. (500lbs) When making ingots I record the date smelted, weight and BHN of the ingot. The majority of what I smelt works out to be 10 to 12 BHN.
I intend to powder coat everything I cast. I have had leading from some commercially produced bullets and we all know its a pain to clean.
Some of what I read here, u-tube online and LASC leads me to believe if I powder coat 12+ will work if properly coated and quenched.
I always load halfway between minimum and max loads. Never more as its field use. Not competition or hunting.
Some say no way.
Some tell me "My great grandpa cast stuff over a campfire"
The charts I find here, LASC, Missouri Bullet and other sites all have some variances and lead me to believe I should be working with something 18+.

1. Should I even be supplying bullets to someone else? (I want to promote shooting and ownership. )
2. is it reasonable to cast bullets at 12-BHN and powder coat?
3. Should I buy some hard cast or antimony and beef up my COWW. I do pistol only and all calibers from32acp to 45 colt.

I would like to keep tis a K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) project so maybe I should stop reading and crank up the pot.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

1. That's your call, many here don't do that for liability reasons.

2. Yes, and I say even softer alloys are fine...lots more to alloys than hardness.

3. I wouldn't.

There is lots more you should read about alloys, The Link at the bottom of this page to LASC's cast bullet notes is some of the best info I know of.

The short answer is, having a boolit that is undersized is the majority of lead fouling problems.


Here is a myth buster thread about cast bullets and Lead fouling.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?116741-If-you-think-so-try-this

[prs]

Commercial boolits are hard because they ship better that way. For mid velocity use your alloy is fine. If you want to add anything to make your casting go better, add about 2% tin by weight. There is a specific forum on this site addressing current knowledge of powder coating boolits, it is easy, efficient, and effective. Visit that forum for latest information about which paints to use and how o apply for your type of shooting.

prs

[bigarm]

I just started casting and powder coating this summer. I find it a lot of fun. I go slow and take care and seem to get pretty decent bullets. Give it a try. Sounds like you have a great start on lead! I bought my first lead (130 lbs.) from someone on here and have scrounged wheel weights since then, but I doubt I have 500 lbs yet. To think when I bought that first order of lead I thought 130 lbs seemed huge. Now I think I need at least 2000 lbs. Good luck and post your bullets.

[tazman]

For the majority of pistol use, 10-12BHN will work just fine, especially when powder coated. The only real need for hard lead is high velocity magnum loads. Even then you have that covered if you water drop/heat treat your boolits after you powder coat them.
Just make sure you size them 1 or 2 thousandths over groove diameter.
You should be good to go.

[MtGun44]

Harder than 12 BHN is not necessary "for magnum (pistol) loads" , this is just baloney.

I know nothing about powder coating, but proper fit to the gun is THE issue, NOT hardness.

Cast loads can be very specific to a particular gun, dramatically more so than jbullets,
So some may work fine in some unknown gun, some will not. Difficult to create cast loads that are well suited to many guns.

Bill

[Walter Laich]

I would say start casting and shooting and make you decisions based on what you see.

I've given bullets away to new shooters but several got huffy when I stopped supplying their USPSA needs. Can't please everyone it seems

[tazman]

Harder than 12 BHN is not necessary "for magnum (pistol) loads" , this is just baloney.

I know nothing about powder coating, but proper fit to the gun is THE issue, NOT hardness.

Cast loads can be very specific to a particular gun, dramatically more so than jbullets,
So some may work fine in some unknown gun, some will not. Difficult to create cast loads that are well suited to many guns.

Bill

It all depends on what you are trying to do. They certainly seem to be more accurate when hard. At least in my handguns.
I will agree that hardness is not necessary to stop leading. Fit does that with the inclusion of gas checks at higher velocities(or powder coating). Top accuracy is a different matter.
I am not going to say it can't be achieved without it as all guns are different. In my experience I get better accuracy results with hard boolits when loading to full power magnum loads.

[oopso]

Thanks for giving me some focus on casting. As soon as weather permits I will start. I am aware there will be a learning curve and mold break in period. The first boolits will not be a loss as I will use them to hone some skills in quenching and powder coating. None of my COWW were free. I found some on Craig`s list and one privately owned tire store who charges $50.00 for a five gallon bucket. From each bucket I average 95-110lbs. After cleaning out zinc and other junk I usually average 65-80lbs per.
I have found reloading a great pastime and have no doubt casting will be as well.

[tazman]

That works out to about 65 cents a pound. That's a good deal. Wheelweights make excellent pistol boolits.
Since you are loading for a number of different guns, powder coating would help remove the possible problems with leading due to a gun's dimensions being a bit different than standard.

[Bigslug]

Your hardness concerns are simple to address - air cooled, your straight wheel weight bullets will be about 12 BHN. Dunk them in water straight out of the mold and they'll be about 23 BHN in a couple of days.

I'd rather have good fitting, hard, and probably more accurate for my own use, but if you're handing out rounds to people shooting who knows what, softer, air-cooled metal in the "standard for caliber" diameters will allow the bullet to "slug up" in a loose tube. Personally, I'd be promoting ownership with .22's.

[clearcut]

I say just start casting the learning curve will improve with hands on practice,use a lighter or stick match to blacken your mold it helps with break in,the Lee modern reloading book has some good info on pressures and lead hardness.Good luck! Be safe!!!
CC

[clearcut]

By the way powder coat is not that hard to do with the DTAS method look at the threads lots of info there too.
CC

[flyingmonkey35]

I think you may run into a issue.

I only cast bullets for a select few people at my private club.

But only the boolit it's self. I will let other shoot my reloads if I'm there.

Do PC cast/size/PC/ size. Reload and shoot.

The first sizing for me us also my culling step.

[gunoil]

I would buy rcbs pro melt, "oopso". l use hardline & lyman molds. Yep, spend the extra money.

I buy hitek supercoat from jerry and donnie miculek @ bayoubullets.net

There us no mold breakin period w/above & no break-in with rcbs pro melt, just load and go.

Above equipment will save you alot of trouble and money, why? Cause that is where u will end up anyway after you have sold the first stuff you bought.

[oopso]

I like to encourage shooting as a pastime and show folks we are not a bunch of loonies running around with guns shooting everything in sight. Perhaps once or twice a year someone will ask about shooting and/or reloading and I seize the opportunity to invite them to my garage and walk them through reloading and what it involves. I sometimes have them use the equipment and make a boolit.
I am careful in my loading. I see some guys on U-tube showing how they can pump out 2,755 bullets in an evening. I admit I started to buy into mass production but the first thing out the window is quality, second is safety, third is enjoyment and the last is pride in what you accomplish.
I intend to approach casting as I do reloading. I want all four factors when done weather I do 100 or 400 in an evening. Most of the folks I give boolits to have shown they are the kind of people I would shoot with. I have met a few I wouldn't want at the same range.

[flylot]

I'm on the same page as bigslug. When I invite someone who is new to shooting, I bring my 22/45 Ruger. Reloading and casting boolits may be "over the top" to someone who knows nothing of firearms in general and handguns in particular. It's like a pig looking at a wrist watch.

Usually a 22 rimfire is much less intimidating: low recoil, less noise than even a .38spl load or higher. However, I do commend your efforts. I too am new to casting and I often get "data overload" just reading the stickies....... my $.02

[Blackwater]

1. Should I even be supplying bullets to someone else? (I want to promote shooting and ownership. )

This is a controversial issue, and we're not going to settle it here, because the answer is really just an opinion, and NOT based on clearly known facts - just speculation. However, in our litigious world, I may do it (give to others) IF I know them, but I don't shoot other people's loads myself. Maybe I'm taking some slight risk, but I very sincerely doubt it.

2. is it reasonable to cast bullets at 12-BHN and powder coat?

I haven't powder coated yet, so have no experience with that part, but I've used literally tons of plain WW's with very good to excellent results, and without water dropping them. I rather like the softer bullets since if I shoot something big with them, like a deer, they'll expand significantly with magnum loads and velocities. A harder bullet certainly doesn't bounce off them, but expansion seems to put them down quicker. The deer in my SE Ga. area aren't typically very large, and a 180 pounder is a big one, so you can guage a little by that.

3. Should I buy some hard cast or antimony and beef up my COWW. I do pistol only and all calibers from32acp to 45 colt.

I don't and in all probability won't. What I DO buy is sources of tin. Tin increases the fluidity of lead alloys and helps keep the bases sharp and crisp, and in the case of hollow point moulds, helps the bullets hold together because it also seems to increase their malleability, and decrease their (usually rare) tendency to fracture parts off, especially with HP's. HP's generally have done best for me at about 4% tin in the mix, and I've used up to 6% but didn't find in my own personal tests that the extra 2% above the 4% mix really added much, and being of old Scots descent, my ancestors would send a banshee to haunt me if I spent without good reason, and tin is kind'a spendy, so I use as little of it as I can get by with and get the results I'm looking for - usually forego it altogether. Alloy and mould temp are the cheif and by far most important factors in the kind of bullets you get, at least in their form and appearance. If they're frosted looking, something's too hot (likely the mix). If the corners aren't nice and sharp, the mould's likely not hot enough yet.

It's obvious from your post that you're a very observant and thoughtful person, so you'll do very well, I'm sure. We all go through a learning curve, as with anything else we undertake, but I suspect it won't take very long at all for you to feel perfectly comfortable with your activities. It's a very nice feeling to know that I could, if it ever became necessary, keep shooting for quite some time just with the stuff I have on hand. I know of no other substitute for that feeling, and the ability to KNOW I've got the exact same load my guns are sighted for at will, and don't have to depend on finding the same brand and bullet weight at the big box stores, that seem to not care much about anything other than their ammo is the right caliber for your gun, and even THAT little detail seems to escape them sometimes, though not terribly regularly.

[popper]

I started PC for 40 & 30 rifle, changed to HiTek for 40 & 9 (much faster, about the same cost), PC for rifle only now. I H.T. everything but they are high pressure loads, 45ACP is low pressure. Recent tests in rifle indicate accuracy MAY be better hard & sized to bore, not oversized. My alloy is close to COWW. Only my daughter's family shoots my reloads and that's hard to keep up with. I've sent some unsized coated boolits to others for testing.
I'm retired, shooting is my hobby and I thought casting would be cheaper. :killingpc
At my age, 200# of lead is my lifetime supply.

[oopso]

The Hitek super coat sounds interesting. Is there a post showing the finished product? Also went to the site debunking some of the myths as to leading. Very informative and well written. I too am retired. I gave up deer hunting as the Michigan winters are too much. I enjoy shooting and casting is a natural step. I keep collecting coww as both of my sons shoot and hopefully will use all this stuff. I wish I would have found this site sometime ago.