Original Bullet for .30-30

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Just what was the original bullet for the .30-30 like? I read somewhere it was 165 gr, but no drawing or photo. I have a mold marked "Winchester 30 W.C.F. S.R.", but have the impression that "S.R." stands for "short range". Please post if you know the answer.

[Scharfschuetze]

I recall reading years ago that it was introduced with a 160 grain bullet (could have been 165), but I've never seen an early round so loaded. I thought when I read the article that a 160 grain bullet seemed like a good compromise between the currently available jacketed bullets of 150 and 170 grains.

[longbow]

Not sure of authenticity but here is an article on .30-30 history:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm

My old Cartridges of the World states that .30-30 was originally introduced with a 165 gr. bullet... so I guess we are no further ahead.

According to the article in the link, S.R. does indeed stand for short range so maybe we are a little further ahead.

Longbow

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Thanks for that link longbow. It was an interesting and detailed article. I sure wish we could find original drawing specs for the bullets.

[RickinTN]

I recently purchased two boxes of Remington/UMC bullets. I kept the un-opened box and gave the opened box to a friend for Christmas. These are 25 round cardboard boxes and although the logo and such is printed on the box the description of the contents is hand written in the blank spaces. They are noted as 30/30 165 grain Winchester Express Mushroom. They are jacketed hollow point bullets. The best he and I can come up with is that these bullets were produced between 1912 and 1915. I'm not sure these would be similar to the "original" bullet for the 30-30 but they certainly are examples of fairly early production.
Rick

[woody1]

I'm sure w30wcf will chime in here. He's the go-to guy for this question. Regards, Woody

OK, here it is: The truth according to John.

http://leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm

[FergusonTO35]

Great article! Makes me eager to take ol' dirty-thirty out for some exercise to celebrate its 120th year.

[JWFilips]

I had this in my archives It is a 30-30 from the 1920's I believe But not sure.
125964

[jrmartin1964]

This is the front label from a c.1896 Winchester box of .30 W.C.F., illustrating the early 160-grain FMP (full metal patch) bullet. This was the original (and for a short time, the only) bullet offered for this cartridge, as illustrated in the November 1895 catalog. In the January 1896 catalog a 160-grain Soft Point, of virtually identical shape, was added. These two bullets continued as standard offerings from Winchester until the March 1903 catalog, when they were both replaced with 170-grain versions. The round-nose shape persisted in Winchester catalogs at least into the early 1930s.

The Ideal No.308291 (aka Lyman No.311291) was originally designed (c.1906) to duplicate this bullet shape.

[w30wcf]

jrmartin1964,
Thank you for the informative post.


Rattlesnake Charlie,
Thankfully, I have a box of original .30 WCF cartridges as illustrated in jrmartin1964's post.
A pulled bullet weighs 160 grs. and measures .94" oal with the crimp groove .45" up from the base.

As was mentioned, the original Ideal 308291 was a cast bullet copy but unfortunately, the current 311291 is not. It is longer and weighs 180-190 grs. depending on the alloy.

Today, the closest matching cast bullet commercially available is the Lee 160 gr.

From the John Witzel collection

http://www.armorypub.com/Witzel/3030/WRACo_1_160_FMJ_RN_Sn_ss.jpg


http://www.armorypub.com/Witzel/3030/3030.htm

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

Rattlesnake Charlie,

Is your SR bullet mold a round nose (100 gr) or a flat point (117 gr)?

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/WinSR1896Cat.jpg

http://www.armorypub.com/Witzel/3030/WRACo_3_117_SR_FN_Pb_ss.jpg

w30wcf

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Rattlesnake Charlie,

Is your SR bullet mold a round nose (100 gr) or a flat point (117 gr)?

Round nose. I cannot state for sure the weight. I cast some a few years ago, probably even weighed them, but cannot remember any more than that.

[Omnivore]

This bullet mold is offered as a copy of the original "Short Range" factory bullet - "1896 to 1924";
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-115K-D.png

I don't know about the velocity to which they were loaded.

[w30wcf]

Round nose. I cannot state for sure the weight. I cast some a few years ago, probably even weighed them, but cannot remember any more than that.

Likely it is the 100 gr. bullet. When Winchester changed to the 117 gr f.n. bullet in 1904 the cartridge boxes I have seen in pics which has the cartridge profile on the box shows a r.n. bullet of 117 grs. So, it is possible that perhaps there was a 117 gr r.n. first before it was converted to the f.n. profile. Or, only the bullet weight was changed with the cartridge pic remaining the same.

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

This bullet mold is offered as a copy of the original "Short Range" factory bullet - "1896 to 1924";
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-115K-D.png

I don't know about the velocity to which they were loaded.

Based on my testing of some original cartridges (primers replaced), 1,100 f.p.s. range.

I had taken the dimensions from a 117 gr. Winchester S.R. bullet I had pulled from an original cartridge and sent the specs to Tom at Accurate Molds. The 31-115K bullet shoots really well at 50 yards with 5 shot groups running less than 1" if I do my part. 6 grs of Unique, Universal, 4756 or Trail Boss produces velocities in the 1,100 f.p.s. range and good accuracy.:smile:

w30wcf

[1Shirt]

Great thread, lots to learn from it!
1Shirt!