Sizing for 38 special

[tomme boy]

I know slug my gun. Problem is, Ruger has it. I need to order a few dies for the RCBS LAMII. So, what does everyone use as to size?

[MT Chambers]

If in doubt...359"

[Tatume]

The 0.358" die works fine for me.

[farmerjim]

+1
If in doubt...359"

[dragon813gt]

.359 because it works in everything. But I do have the full range of sizing dies from .355 to .360.

[Ben]

I'd wager that .358" sizing dies outsell all others for 38/357 Mag.

[DeadWoodDan]

I'm assuming for a revolver, you would need to check your cyl. throat also; would do no good to size to barrel if they are going to get sized before they hit that surface. I think that is why as Ben stated most size to .358.

[leeggen]

Sizing die of .358, if needed the die can be lapped to .359.
CD

[dubber123]

I'd wager that .358" sizing dies outsell all others for 38/357 Mag.

That would be a winning bet. I don't have any Ruger .38's or .357's, but I have a good pile of S&W's, and .358" works well in all of them.

[trapper9260]

I used a .358 sizen die for my 357

[yancey]

I use .358 also

[MtGun44]

I'm with Ben on this one. .358 will work for the overwhelming majority.

Bill

[tazman]

Another vote for .358.

[Loudenboomer]

Just remember 1 thou. to big is usually better than 1 thou. to small.

[mac266]

I think .358 is the place to start.

[lwknight]

I second the .358 as a starting place. You might have a .356 bore and find .357 to be even more accurate. You can always lap it out but cannot lap it back in.

[Ed_Shot]

++ for .358 works fine for 38/357 and 9MM

[glockky]

My smiths like a .359 bullet

[Guesser]

.358 works for me for over 50 years in Ruger, S&W, Colt, Taurus, Rossi, Great Western, Llama, and some others long gone and forgotten.

[Petrol & Powder]

.358" works in all of my Ruger and S&W's

[plainsman456]

That Ben fella sure is smart.

Go with 358.

[Shiloh]

Mine are run through a .358 sizer and the end result is about .3584. They work fine.

Shiloh

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Most of my Lyman dies are the OLD style with no O-ring,
BUT,
I bought a NEW .358 Lyman die about two years ago.
it sizes boolits to .3595
I didn't lap it either.

[Screwbolts]

I use .360 in all 38 & 357 chambers.

[Ben]

That Ben fella sure is smart.

Go with 358.

My wife has completely different views on that......... ! !

[Gofaaast]

.358 for my 38 special smiths

[rintinglen]

.358 works for me for over 50 years in Ruger, S&W, Colt, Taurus, Rossi, Great Western, Llama, and some others long gone and forgotten.
What he said. Off hand, I can only recall one old S&W M&P 38 that required a larger boolit to shoot well out of fifty plus guns that I have owned over the years. If your gun was made by anybody since WWII, chances are way long in favor of the .358 being the right choice..

[Down South]

Get a .358 die. If you need you can lap it out to .359 real easy. I shoot .359 in my GP-100.

[trys357]

.358 works in my 686

[jeepyj]

I shoot a fairly hefty amount of 38s and sized to 358 also. I do have a couple moulds though that really don't cast much over 358 and a couple moulds that I could squeeze 359-360 out of.
Jeepyj

[btroj]

I use a 359 die in the Star. It is what I bp get and it worked so I never tried anything else. My GP100 and Blackhawk both seem happy.

[lwknight]

I guess I got lucky in that my GP100 shoots best with .357 bullets. That way just about any and every mold will cast what can be sized down to what I want. Every gun that you buy is a **** shoot( roll of the dice). I think that mass produced barrels start out with over sized tools that are expected to wear down till they are just totally out of specs.

[quickshot]

I have a .358 lee push through and 450 die. Works for me

[mizzouri1]

my Blackhawk ss likes the .358

[GabbyM]

I've a Colt Trooper III in 357 mag here that needs .358" in four cylinders and .359" in two others.
With the 38 Special loads I tried in it's 357 mag chambers. The two fat throats leaded pretty bad ahead of the cylinder throats in the area between end of short 38 Sp case and throat. Not tried any 357 mag brass yet. Do have a precious stash of 100 Star 357 Magnum cases. Plus some 170 grain .359" gas checked boolits.

[rsrocket1]

I don't size my 358-158-RF at all. I try all my boolits unsized at first to see if I'm lucky. So far my Service Six and 1911 were happy with unsized boolits right out of the mold. Just a quick tumble in 45/45/10 and zeroleading with good accuracy.

[lwknight]

Just a quick tumble in 45/45/10 and zeroleading with good accuracy.
Maybe sizing would get you excellant accuracy

[tazman]

I don't size my 358-158-RF at all. I try all my boolits unsized at first to see if I'm lucky. So far my Service Six and 1911 were happy with unsized boolits right out of the mold. Just a quick tumble in 45/45/10 and zeroleading with good accuracy.

Sweet. That would be an ideal situation.
My revolvers and pistols will accept unsized boolits within limits but my accuracy improves if I size them to fit the throats.

[Down South]

I like mine to just start into the throat of the cylinders when chambered. It takes a slight push to chamber all 6 rounds.

[Char-Gar]

Your first sizing dies should be .358. Your second sizing die should be .357 and your third .359. .358 will do for all until you figure out what your are doing.

[rsrocket1]

Maybe sizing would get you excellant accuracy
Agreed. When I can shoot better than 1" groups at 10 yards with one hand, I'll start sizing to get excellant accuracy sic

I've got a long ways to go before I get there so I think I'm safe for now :)

[tomme boy]

Well I had a 0.357" and picked up a 0.358" yesterday. Ran a few of the NOE 360477's through the die and they are coming out at 0.3583" So I think these will work.

Now, just waiting till I get the gun back from Ruger. I really hope they clean up the forcing cone.

[psweigle]

My blackhawk prefers .358.

[N4AUD]

I don't size my 358-158-RF at all. I try all my boolits unsized at first to see if I'm lucky. So far my Service Six and 1911 were happy with unsized boolits right out of the mold. Just a quick tumble in 45/45/10 and zeroleading with good accuracy.
Same here, except I cast the semiwadcutter. Works great, no sizing.

[Char-Gar]

Just a word or two about cast bullet sizing in the 38/357;

My experience with Ruger revolvers is limited to just one, an OM Blackhawk that I had Ruger recylinder in 1995. The charge hole throats run a fairly uniform .3583 +- the usual .0001. .358 Bullets work just fine in this revolver.

My experience with Smith and Wesson and Colt is much deeper running over 50 years and scores of individual revolvers. Smith and Wesson, not matter what the vintage will run about .3575 in the throats plus or minus the regular slip and slide. In all the Smiths I have owned, I only found one that ran outside this number. It was a late 50's vintage Chief Special with .356 throats.

OM Colts will run a pretty uniform .359 in the throats.

A cast bullet of .358 will do well in all of these revolvers, but may not be the best in any individual specimen. But, if you have to pull one number out of the hat that will deliver good accuracy in just about any 38/357 revolver, this is it.

However, Glen Fryxell tells me he gets a smidge better accuracy out of Smiths with .357 bullets and my experience validates his experience.

A .359 throat Colt will do a smidge better with .359 bullets.

I understand the desire to use an oversized bullet for everything and I have done that as well. It makes life much simpler. However sizing the bullet in the cylinder throat will degrade accuracy. The accuracy degrade may or may not be significant depending one's needs and desires. For most folks it doesn't matter.

I am temped to talk a little about alloys, but that is another topic. I will just say, don't water quench and stay away from alloys much over Bhn 12 or so.

[tomme boy]

I'm going to be shooting a bunch of 357 mags as well. I have a strange alloy I have been using for my 45 acp before I got rid of it. It is all made out of the cores from .40 cal pistols. It was recovered from a police range that used the rubber chunks. So all of the bullets were intact.

Well this stuff acts almost like pure lead for the temps. It goes full liquid about 610* with no slush. I can run it up to 785* before I have to wait more than an 5 count for it to be able to drop them. About 800* it will start to leave a lead smear on the top plate unless you go to a 12 count. But, NONE of the bullets are frosted??? Fill out is perfect no matter what temp I run it at. But it releases from the mould best at around 760*. Water dropped they are about 19 for hardness after about 3 hours. after a week they are about 21 now. And they are nice and shiny. This is the first time I have ever had shiny bullets. I know the lead is not contaminated as I cut each and every piece of the jacketed bullets and melted them down. Nothing else was mixed in other than candle way to clean up the mix.

[Char-Gar]

I do not predict happiness with 19 to 21 Bhn hardness. It would take pressures higher than I like to run to make that stuff mind it's manners.

[tomme boy]

I know. I thought this would be good as I was always told that the cores were almost pure. It is acting like it is a little harder than COWW's. The ones I have anyway.

[tazman]

I do not predict happiness with 19 to 21 Bhn hardness. It would take pressures higher than I like to run to make that stuff mind it's manners.

Just out of curiosity, assuming the boolits are a proper fit for the throats and barrel, why would having them hard be a problem? I would think they would grip the rifling better.

[Char-Gar]

Just out of curiosity, assuming the boolits are a proper fit for the throats and barrel, why would having them hard be a problem? I would think they would grip the rifling better.

Load 100 rounds of 38 Special at 800 to 900 fps, with 20 BHN bullets using your powder of choice. Now try and figure out why your barrel is leaded so badly. Report your findings back. There is no substitute for learning the hard way. That is how I did it. It is the best way to learn and the only way some will learn.

It does seem counter intuitive for sure. I don't try and talk theory and explanations here, just reporting experience. I have found on this board any assertion of why something does something declares open season for the challengers. I am done with that. Folks can lead their barrels for all I care. If a fellow wants the benefit of my experience, I will give it freely, but if he want to be schooled, I am not up to that anymore.

[Char-Gar]

I know. I thought this would be good as I was always told that the cores were almost pure. It is acting like it is a little harder than COWW's. The ones I have anyway.

19 to 21 Bhn is not a little harder than clip on wheel weight, it is ALLOT harder.

[tomme boy]

Thats what don't make sense. It's all the cores out of FMJ rounds. You would figure that would be soft lead. I know what you mean about using softer lead. I had a 45 colt that wanted a softer alloy. I was running them at 1500-1600 fps and it still wanted a softer alloy to stop the leading. I am still going to try it as I have some made up already to test.

I am going to cast a few tonight and air cool them to see what they do. I really like to water drop all of my bullets. I may have to find some pure or just air cool them.

[JimP.]

.358 for 9mm, .359 for 38/357....if i cast them, shoot as cast tumble lubed...JimP.

[Outpost75]

A .358 die will fit most, as that is the Mean Assembly Tolerance dimension. The drawing tolerance was .3575" + 0.0015/-0.0000, or at least it was back in the day Feds still bought revolvers and I was a QAR inspecting for contract orders the government.