First Whelen Cast Load

[LAGS]

I decided to start casting for my 35 Whelen, and am pleased I did.
Recoil was very easy to handle compared to the J bullet loads
My first load was with the NOE 358-318 245 gr GC.
The powder was 32 gr of IMR 4198.
100 yard results were two groups hitting 5" low and 1" to the right from where my rifle was sighted in for the 250 gr "J" bullet.
Two groups were right at 3/4" and one at 1"
I sure hope this wasn't the Sweet Spot right off the bat, and might get better with a different load.
Any suggestions ?
I have no idea on how fast the boolits were going, but plan to get with a friend and Crony them soon.

[Tatume]

Either IMR 4895 or H4895 will likely be even better.

[Shuz]

Try some 4064, it's always worked well in my .35 Whelen's.

[LAGS]

What I am looking for guys is Tested Loads.
I have " NO " loading data at all for the 245 gr boolit.
The load I used was something I came up with using a graph I made for the 200 gr and 280 gr boolits, using the same powder with each boolit
I just picked a load that was somewhere in the middle.
I think with this powder I got pretty lucky.
But I have no data for the 200 or 280 for the 4064, 4895 or the 4350.
So I can not use my graph method.

[Yodogsandman]

Cast boolits produce less pressure so, you can use jacketed bullet data for similar bullet weights.

[Maineboy]

Of your 3 powders, I've only used IMR4895 with the 280 grain boolit. I've started at 40 grains and went to 50 grains and found that 44-45 grains worked the best. My Whelen has a 1-12 twist. 42 grains of the same powder and the RCBS 250 grain "special order" boolit is another good load in my rifle. Some day I want to try IMR4064 as suggested by Shuz.

[Tatume]

What I am looking for guys are tested loads.

There are data for IMR4064, IMR4895, and H4895 on the Hodgdon web site:

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com

To test loads start low and work up. How low should you start? Use H4895 and see:

http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Reduced%20Rifle%20Loads.pdf

If your lube and alloy are sufficient for the job, you will find good accuracy from 1400 - 2200 fps. You should be free from leading up to at least 1800 fps.

[LAGS]

I opted for the 245 gr boolit over the 280 gr boolit because my rifle has the slower twist of 14 to 1 and should stabilize the lighter boolits better.
The heavier the boolit, the faster the twist is required in a perticular caliber.
But I find no data for the 245 gr boolit, and I am just giving it a Shot In The Dark so to speak on working up a load without having a Crony.
At least with published data, I have some kind of guidelines as far as velocity and even sometimes pressure.
I will probably be Powder Coating the boolits when I get some kind of base line for different powders.
But using " J " bullet data for Cast Boolits works, but you have no corrisponding velocity or pressures to refferance to.
My best guess at velocity for my first load, using the graphs for the 200 and 280 gr boolits and the 4198 powder should be around 1700 FPS.
Per the Graph, I should hit a sweet spot at 36.0 gr of 4198 at around 1950 FPS

[35 shooter]

As far as the 4350 powder you mentioned accurate powders shows data for aa4350 with 200, 250 and 280 gr boolits. I used the 358009 280 gr. noe boolit in my 1/14" twist and found very good accuracy with 48 gr. imr4350 @ 1950 fps. and again at 54 gr. imr 4350 for 2200 plus fps.
Both loads will shoot into 1 1/2" or less @ 100 yds. for 5 shots consistently.
My 200 gr. noes will do the same with 50 gr. and 54 1/2 gr. of imr 4350 for virtually the same velocitys.
It does seem to pay to try different brands of 4350 as some rifles prefer aa or h 4350 over imr 4350. I know my brothers whelen prefers aa4350.
However i will say i haven't made the new noe 235 gr. boolit shoot with 4350 so far, but i've only tried a couple of times with it before hunting season.

[LAGS]

I would like to explain what I refered to as a "Sweet Spot"
From all my years reloading cast bullets, I found my most accurate loads where loaded at a point where the velocity was just below the point the boolit will not be starting to lead the barrel, and the chamber pressure is just below the pressure the boolit can stand before it starts to deform.

IE,
#2 Lead starts to lead a barrel at around 1800 FPS
#2 lead with a BHN of 15 has a pressure strength at around 21,00 PSI on a plain base bullet.

Now with a Gas Check, you can go a little faster and not "start" to have leading Like 2000 FPS
And a Gas Check protects the base of the boolit a little so it can take a little more pressure but not more than 10.000 PSI more.

So in theory a good Sweet Spot would be using a powder that pushes a Gas Checked boolit made from #2 Lyman lead 2,000 FPS and not generate more than 31,000 PSI.
I have had very good sucess with this formula in the past.

I did work down a load for the 250 gr J bullet using IMR-4064.
To get 2,000 FPS I would use around 44.0 gr of 4064
But the Pressure for that load is a Wopping 42,000 PSI.
To get the pressure down to 31,000 PSI, I would have to reduce the load to 34.0 gr of 4064.
Then you get into having to use a filler of some type, and the pressure starts sneaking up also.
And my velocity would only be around 1650 FPS

Higher Pressures then what the boolit can withstand, will also cause leading.

[scottfire1957]

Those groups are great. If the velocity is good, what more could you want? 35 Whelen is not often thought of as as target/precision round.

[35 shooter]

Guess i should have mentioned my alloy is straight ww and also heat treated to 465* for 1 hr. then dunked in cold water. No leading to 2500 fps. I had to ht to get much over 1900 fps with the kind of accuracy i wanted in the whelen. I didn't get leading without ht, just no accuracy over 1900 fps...i've never tried #2 alloy so far in mine, but have been meaning to try a 50/50 mix.

[LAGS]

They say that HT the WW like you did , raises the BHN to almost a 27 and that would have a pressure factor of 38,000 PSI.
When you say a 50/50 mix ?
are you talking about 50% lino and 50% lead ?
That just makes a Lyman #2 mix.
I smelt my own , and am shooting mostly a 92/2/6 blend I bought from a smelter.
But I also have lino that I made up to an 84/4/12 blend.
I recently made a Lead hardness tester out of a Bathroom scale, my drill press a 3/8' steel plate , a 10/32 allen head set screw with a 5/32 steel ball soldered onto the set screw.
It is a slick little set up and so far is accurate as all get out.

Next time I get to the range with Armoredmaan, I will see if he can bring the Crony, and post pictures for me.

[35 shooter]

They say that HT the WW like you did , raises the BHN to almost a 27 and that would have a pressure factor of 38,000 PSI.
When you say a 50/50 mix ?
are you talking about 50% lino and 50% lead ?
That just makes a Lyman #2 mix.
I smelt my own , and am shooting mostly a 92/2/6 blend I bought from a smelter.
But I also have lino that I made up to an 84/4/12 blend.
I recently made a Lead hardness tester out of a Bathroom scale, my drill press a 3/8' steel plate , a 10/32 allen head set screw with a 5/32 steel ball soldered onto the set screw.
It is a slick little set up and so far is accurate as all get out.

Next time I get to the range with Armoredmaan, I will see if he can bring the Crony, and post pictures for me.
LAGS no i was talking about just a 50/50 mix of clip on ww and stick on ww or maybe just range scrap and ww just to try and save on my ww supply.
You are dead on the bhn thing. 27 bhn is exactly what my ht ww measured. I didn't have a way to check it, but another member here did it for me.
I was concerned they would be too hard for hunting, but Shuz uses that same boolit and i believe he ht's his 358009's if i remember right, and he's killed more big game animals than i probably ever will with mine. So i guess i'm good to go.
Sounds like your off to a great start with yours and i'll be looking forward to more reports on it. I love hearing about all the .358's and whelens out there!!!

[RobS]

Similar in burn rate as some of the powders mentioned above such as 4064 and 4895 is Varget. My dad shoots the NOE 200 grain boolit http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=356&osCsid=of8uogul5tvfht5a7op2fjbea4 (water quenched from the mold) with 45 grains of Varget and is running MOA or less. He also adds a tuft of dacron/polyester filler over the powder to keep it from moving in the case and lubes his boolits with White Label 50/50. His rifle has a 1:12" twist.

I also shoot Varget in my 375 H&H and push water quenched 270 grain boolits http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=52&products_id=561&osCsid=of8uogul5tvfht5a7op2fjbea4 out to 2300 fps running MOA. I too use dacron/polyester filler with my loads and have a twist of 1:12" barrel.

If you are going to push boolit speed your pressures are associated with velocity of course however pressures are not the only factor when considering accuracy and cast boolits. The velocity increases so does the RPM's of the boolit as it travels down the barrel. Not only pressure but also the RPMs should be a determining factor to boolit hardness and accuracy. A gas check does help with boolit skid or stripping of the rifling and provides some wiggle room to use softer alloy but there will be a limit to what a GC can overcome.

[LAGS]

You guys need to make yourself one of my " Billy Bob " hardness checkers.
I will forward pictures to Armoredman to post for me.

A mix of 50% ww and 50% stick on wont heat treat as well with out adding some Tin.
Add a roll of 95/5 plumbers solder to 10 lb of your 50/50 mix and you should be ok.

I have Armoredman pick me up the 92/2/6 lead in 62 lb ingots and he recently picked me up two of them.
I also had him get me some Pure Tin.
So far he picked me up 10 lb, but I need him to pick me up 14 lb more in the next week or so.
I also got 40 lb of roof flashings from a subcontractor on one of my construction jobs, that is why I need the tin.
I order the Antimony from California in 20 lb chunks of raw crystals

[RobS]

You guys need to make yourself one of my " Billy Bob " hardness checkers.
I will forward pictures to Armoredman to post for me.

A mix of 50% ww and 50% stick on wont heat treat as well with out adding some Tin.
Add a roll of 95/5 plumbers solder to 10 lb of your 50/50 mix and you should be ok.

I have Armoredman pick me up the 92/2/6 lead in 62 lb ingots and he recently picked me up two of them.
I also had him get me some Pure Tin.
So far he picked me up 10 lb, but I need him to pick me up 14 lb more in the next week or so.
I also got 40 lb of roof flashings from a subcontractor on one of my construction jobs, that is why I need the tin.
I order the Antimony from California in 20 lb chunks of raw crystals

I made a lead BHN tester too:

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/RobS01/3.jpg (http://s612.photobucket.com/user/RobS01/media/3.jpg.html)

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/RobS01/2.jpg (http://s612.photobucket.com/user/RobS01/media/2.jpg.html)

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/RobS01/4-1.jpg (http://s612.photobucket.com/user/RobS01/media/4-1.jpg.html)

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/RobS01/5.jpg (http://s612.photobucket.com/user/RobS01/media/5.jpg.html)

[RobS]

Regards to heat treated alloys and as it ages the more tin in the alloy can make the alloy come down in hardness vs an alloy that has less.

"Add a roll of 95/5 plumbers solder to 10 lb of your 50/50 mix and you should be ok."

Quite a bit of tin for 10 lbs of alloy

[LAGS]

@ RobS
He will be making a 10 to 1 mix With 2% antimony.
He could use a little less solder, or just come up on the stick on WW a bit to ballance it out.
WW are .005 % tin and .04% antimony.
If you figure out what that is by "weight" PER POUND, then you have a base to add other materials to get the ratio
you want.
I generally figure it in grains.
7,000 grains per pound x.005 gives you the tin weight in that pound of WW.
7,000 gr x .04 gives you the Antimony per pound of WW.

[LAGS]

OK,
Since I cant find data for the 245 gr boolit, I just Ordered a NOE 358009 280 gr RN GC.
Load problem solved.
I just hope it shoots as good in my slower 1/14 barrel.

[RobS]

Yes I understood it to be 10:1 similar alloy with antimony but am wondering why if it's going to be a heat treated alloy.... if it is to be such.


@ RobS
He will be making a 10 to 1 mix With 2% antimony.
He could use a little less solder, or just come up on the stick on WW a bit to ballance it out.
WW are .005 % tin and .04% antimony.
If you figure out what that is by "weight" PER POUND, then you have a base to add other materials to get the ratio
you want.
I generally figure it in grains.
7,000 grains per pound x.005 gives you the tin weight in that pound of WW.
7,000 gr x .04 gives you the Antimony per pound of WW.

[35 shooter]

LAGS i think you'll be fine with that boolit. My 1/14" twist loves it. If you happen to have any unique on hand, 12 gr. with no filler shoots into an inch or less @ 100 yds. from my rifle....too much fun!!! This is with the plain base version and haven't tried it with the gc version yet, but don't see why it would'nt do as well or better.
I haven't chronoed that load yet, but have seen 10 gr. chronoed at 1250 fps. so i figure it's around 1350 fps. with the 12 gr. load.
When sighted in at 2.5'' high at 100 yds. with my 2200 fps. load, i can turn my 3x9 scope down to 3 power and use the tip of the bottom post dead on at 50 yds. with the light load for small game hunting.
When i got this mould from noe, i got it in 2 cavity with one plain base and one gc in the same mould and have never regretted it.

If i could use only one boolit in the whelen for target and hunting the 358009 would be it!
Hope yours works out as well for you.

[GBertolet]

My Greenhill's formula chart shows a 35 caliber with 1-14 twist rifling will stabilize a bullet of 322 gr. or a bullet up to 1.37" of length.

[LAGS]

@ 35 shooter
Yes I have Unique, and just about every other powder that you would want to use for cast boolits.
( Dang Low on 2400 though )
But I prefer a load that fills the case a little more, and only use fillers when I have to.
I prefer a slower powder that burns and progressivly raises the chamber pressure, rather than a Fast Powder that does off like a firecracker in the chamber and has a Instant Pressure spike.
It is just a personnel prefferance, and not some kind of rocket science that I can spout as to which powder is better.

I opted for the 2 cavity GC on both design because I intend to use this rifle for hunting and long range shooting only.
I have plenty of other rifles and calibers that work better for Mouse Fart loads, and close range shooting like at 100 yards.

If you are HT'ing your boolits, you need to raise the Antimony percentage.
But you probably do not have access to Antimony except the 5% you will find in the plumbing solder.
So adding more Tin and raising the BHN is your best option.

[RobS]

If you haven't already:
http://www.lasc.us/HeatTreat.htm

This is a good read.

[LAGS]

I received my NOE 280 gr .360009 mold today.
That is one BIG boolit.
I tried to order the .360365 - 280 gr Spire Point GC but they were out of stock.
I will keep you posted on how they shoot, both Hard Lubed and Powder Coated.
I think I am going to start off using IMR 3031 @ about 44.0 gr.
That should give me the velocity, and not too high of pressure level to start.

[35 shooter]

Hope it works as well for you as mine has for me. I have a gc and pb version of this boolit and have been considering powder coating the pb version just to see how hard i can push it. Haven't tried coating with powder yet and don't know how well it will work with a bore rider, but should be fun to try. Also want to try Ben's new LIQUID LUBE tumbled over regular lube on the pb.
Be looking forward to your results with 3031 as i have some on hand,but have had such good results with imr4350 with this boolit i just haven't tried anything else with it other than unique for a light load.

[LAGS]

One thing I wanted to mention was,
with the 245 RN I have some feeding problems out of the magazine.
This is my fault, because when I barreled this action, I did not put a bevel on the rear of the chamber, and left the rear opening to the chamber sharp. My decision, not something I forgot to do.
It does not cause issues with Spire pointed or " J " bullets.
But the sharp edge can catch on the lead boolit and sometimes hang up.
First round out of the magazine single loaded isn't an issue.
I will try another magazine follower and see if I can modify it so the cartridges will feed a little more towards center of the action, or if needed, pull the barrel off again and bevel the opening to the chamber like it is supposed to be done.
I will be trying other powders like IMR 4064 and maybe IMR 4350, but that is a while down the line.
I dont think that PC will adversly effect the accuracy on a Bore Riding style of boolit.
I will have to find someone who lives out in the boonies that has a swimming pool , so I can recover the fired boolits and check them out to see the effects on the undamaged slugs.

Just for giggles,
I will try taking the 360009 and put the nose in an old casing, then ESPC the shank and back of the boolit.
It will look like a half jacketed boolit, and the Bore Riding section will then be uncoated.
Kind of , the best of both worlds.

[35 shooter]

I know of another member here who had the same feed problems in his bolt rifle with that very same boolit. I've been wondering if the rg type mould of that same boolit that noe makes with a flat point would feed better?
One advantage to my single shot is no feed problems, but lol it's a bit slow when it comes to rapid fire. I've become very fond of it all the same though and it's a shooter!
For a midrange weight boolit i went with the new 360230 noe came out with but haven't worked with it much yet...good looking boolit though. I'm hoping it will be as accurate as i think it will be. Got it in a rg mould , so lots of testing to do with the flat, hollow point, and cup point versions of it. I like the rg moulds now that i've tried one, although it's a bit of a learning curve.
I hope the 358009 rn doesn't give a feed problem for you although it's pretty blunt on the end...should pop right in.

[LAGS]

Wher the boolit catches on the rear of the chamber wouldn't be effected if it was a FN.
If I force the round into the chamber , then eject it, it has a shaved spot on the side of the boolit.
The chamber edge is so sharp that it digs into the boolit.
I hope the 280 doesnt have the same issue, but I have the skills to fix if , whatever the problem.

[smoked turkey]

LAGS you mentioned working with 44 gr of IMR 3031 with your 360009 in your above post #26. I thought I'd jump in here to let you know what some of my results were with my Ruger M77 using the Lyman 3589 boolit of ww sized .360, weighing in at 293 gr ready to load. I used CCI 200 primers for the first loading. I started off with a 35 gr load of IMR3031 and velocity was clocked at 1791'/s ave. My second loading was using Rem 9.5 primer and 38 gr of IMR3031 and velocity was 1946'/s. 100 yard accuracy was about 2.5" and 3.0" respectively. I believe I have shot some better groups than those but can't find those targets at the moment. I believe the twist for my Ruger is 1 turn in 16" which is not the best for that big boolit. I did kill a doe and a buck with the Whelen this deer season and the 3589 boolit so I can honestly say it is "minute of deer" accurate! :smile: Hope some of this information is helpful to you in load development for your particular rifle.

[LAGS]

Thank you.
You have me thinking now.
My Lyman manual starts at 39 gr for 3031 at 1901 FPS with a pressure of 24,000 CUP.
I want to stay around 2200 FPS and a pressure level around 32,000 CUP
But maybe I will start lower like 38.0 gr for now.
I am not a good rifle shooter, so minute of Moose is fine by me.

[TXGunNut]

LAGS, 35 shooter mentioned I had feeding problems with a boolit with a long nose and large meplat. I feel like it's a different issue, tho. My rifle is a rebore Winchester 670. My issue was the edge of the meplat would hit the ramp a bit soon an force it out of the magazine before if was ready to start into the chamber. Before I figured that out I tried massaging the magazine feed lips, replacing the magazine spring and follower and polishing the feed ramp. Those measures helped a bit but it would still allow a round to jump out of the magazine and misfeed. Usually an issue only with cartridges on the left side of the magazine.
I don't think we have the same issue, didn't catch which action your rifle is built on.
My rifle seems to prefer a fairly hard boolit as well, even at lower (1950) velocities.

[35 shooter]

LAGS, 35 shooter mentioned I had feeding problems with a boolit with a long nose and large meplat. I feel like it's a different issue, tho. My rifle is a rebore Winchester 670. My issue was the edge of the meplat would hit the ramp a bit soon an force it out of the magazine before if was ready to start into the chamber. Before I figured that out I tried massaging the magazine feed lips, replacing the magazine spring and follower and polishing the feed ramp. Those measures helped a bit but it would still allow a round to jump out of the magazine and misfeed. Usually an issue only with cartridges on the left side of the magazine.
I don't think we have the same issue, didn't catch which action your rifle is built on.
My rifle seems to prefer a fairly hard boolit as well, even at lower (1950) velocities.
My bad...that's right, it was another boolit . And your rifle is the one i was thinking about.

[LAGS]

My Whelen is built on a 1923 Mauser 98/22 Czech action.
It is full custom, as are a lot of my rifles.
That is New hand made stock, Glass bedded, Slow rust Blued, Timney trigger,recoil pad and a Leupold scope mount with Leupold scope.
The barrel is an Adams Bennett Pre fit, but it shoots very well.
I did not lenghten the magazine box on this one or convert the original magazine to a hinged floorplate . ( Yet )
But the trigger guard has been re- sculptured.
I wish I could post pictures on the site, but maybe I will have a friend do some next time I take it out.

[LAGS]

I was able to get off work early today and do some casting with the new 360009 mold and the 245 gr NOE molds.
I used Linotype for this first round, and loaded the 280's with 40,0 gr of IMR 3031 seated to a OAL of 3.040
I was going to try and PC some of the boolits, but it is raining.
But I did check out my idea of Half coating the 280's.
If I JB weld some old 38 spl cases to my tray, I can set the nose of the boolit in them and spray the shank then bake them.
i will try some this weekend if it stops raining.

[LAGS]

I do not have any loading data for the NOE 358318 -245 gr GC.
I want to use the IMR 3031 like I did for the 280 gr boolit.
So, Again, I made a graph using the loading data for the 280 gr boolit, and the 200 gr boolit for the known loads using IMR 3031.
If I draw a line right between the two boolit graphs it is easy to ESTIMATE what load to use, and about how fast it will be going.
With the 245 gr boolit, I am going to start with 44.0 gr of IMR 3031.
Per the graph, It should be right around 2200 FPS.
The 280 gr boolit with 40.0 gr of IMR 3031 will be shooting around 1950 FPS per the graph.
I chose to use Linotype lead for this first go round, because I have no idea if leading will be a possibility at these speeds.
I dont think it will be, but better safe than sorry.

[35 shooter]

LAGS provided good fit i don't think leading will be a problem. I've run the 200 gr. past 2500 fps. according to a lyman manual with 3031. I haven't tried the heavier weights with 3031, but am running the 358009 at 2200fps chronoed and have run it even faster with absolutely no leading with a gc. On the other hand i can't seem to get past 1400 fps with my plain base without a bit of leading so far.
Oh well...still working on that . Your starting loads with 3031 sounds fine.

[TXGunNut]

My bad...that's right, it was another boolit . And your rifle is the one i was thinking about.

Actually had the same issue with two boolits, I was thinking of one and you the other but both had the same issues. Need to read my notes and get back to this project.

[TXGunNut]

I do not have any loading data for the NOE 358318 -245 gr GC.-LAGS

Nothing solid but I dabbled a bit with IMR4895, H4350 and IMR4350, all showed promise. If you'd like I can PM you some starting loads after I study my notes a bit more.

[LAGS]

Thank you, TxgunNut
I do have the Lee Second Edition Manual, and it does show reduction numbers for 4895 and 4064, so I can work down the load from the same weight of J bullets.
Personally, I think that 4350 is Too Slow for this weight of Cast Boolit, and has the potential for just blowing unburned powder out the barrel.
But, I could be wrong.

[Yodogsandman]

I've been shooting the Lyman 358009 with IMR4350. At 56.5gr IMR4350, I have just a couple of burned grains left in the barrel after the shot.

[LAGS]

The question is, ?
How much unburned powder is flying down range ?
I found with 4350, it likes a heavy J loolit and some back pressure or greater resistance than a lead slug provides .

[TXGunNut]

Personally, I think that 4350 is Too Slow for this weight of Cast Boolit, and has the potential for just blowing unburned powder out the barrel.
But, I could be wrong.-LAGS

I agree, 4350 is too slow for the 35 Whelen. My rifle disagrees with both of us.

[JesterGrin_1]

As far as the 4350 powder you mentioned accurate powders shows data for aa4350 with 200, 250 and 280 gr boolits. I used the 358009 280 gr. noe boolit in my 1/14" twist and found very good accuracy with 48 gr. imr4350 @ 1950 fps. and again at 54 gr. imr 4350 for 2200 plus fps.
Both loads will shoot into 1 1/2" or less @ 100 yds. for 5 shots consistently.
My 200 gr. noes will do the same with 50 gr. and 54 1/2 gr. of imr 4350 for virtually the same velocitys.
It does seem to pay to try different brands of 4350 as some rifles prefer aa or h 4350 over imr 4350. I know my brothers whelen prefers aa4350.
However i will say i haven't made the new noe 235 gr. boolit shoot with 4350 so far, but i've only tried a couple of times with it before hunting season.

Well Gang I just have to tag along on this one. :smile:



And yes I may have to decide to actually try and use my 35 Whelen AI with the 358009 with GC and see if it will work with the Shrewd Muzzle Brake?

And I just happen to have a few pounds of IMR-4350 laying around gathering dust I believe.

[35 shooter]

Well Gang I just have to tag along on this one. :smile:



And yes I may have to decide to actually try and use my 35 Whelen AI with the 358009 with GC and see if it will work with the Shrewd Muzzle Brake?

And I just happen to have a few pounds of IMR-4350 laying around gathering dust I believe.
Yep...been waitin on that report lol!![smilie=s: Break that ol AI out, blow the dust off and get crackin! i'll be watching for your results![smilie=w:

[JesterGrin_1]

Yep...been waitin on that report lol!![smilie=s: Break that ol AI out, blow the dust off and get crackin! i'll be watching for your results![smilie=w:

It still might be a bit of time as I still need to purchase and mount a scope on the thing lol.

[LAGS]

@ JG1
Pictures would be nice.

[LAGS]

A Question for you 35 Guys ?
Has anyone ever tried IMR 4320 in the Whelen with Cast Boolits ?
It is slower than 4064 but faster than 4350 and has given me good performance with J bullets.
It isnt because it is the only powder that I have, I have some of almost all of them.
I am just trying to see what others have tried.
I have tons of H4831, for the 25-06 but I know that one is way too slow for this big boolit.

[35 shooter]

Never tried 4320 in the whelen so far, but i do feel it's one of those powders that tends to get overlooked. Used to see it on the shelf when they were out of everything else, but haven't found any lately. It is on my "to try" list.
I've seen old posts regarding using 4831 in the whelen too when i was doing a search here.The idea was to fill the case with a slow powder for a "softer" send off with cast boolits.
I've been thinking of trying 4831 behind my pb boolits to maybe get a bit more out of them.
Definitly think 4320 needs looking into imo for the very reasons you put forward.

[LAGS]

4320 is my powder of choice in the .308 and the 7.62x54r with "J" bullets
I want to try it with cast also.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Isn't his groups a little hard to improve on with cast. I would be over whelmed with groups like that from any of my guns. Maybe I'm not to hard to please or impress though.

[35 shooter]

His groups of 3/4 to 1" at an estimated 1700 fps. with the 245 gr. boolit and 4198 if i remember right were great. Don't know how many shots per group that was,and it really doesn't matter...that's good shooting. To get to the 1900 to 2200 fps. range he mentioned and maintain good accuracy however may or may not work with 4198.
I got to that range with 4759 and 200 gr. boolits, but had to use a filler. Also had to heat treat the boolit.
Some of the slower burning powders that have been mentioned here seem to keep pressures down and make it a bit easier to move up in speed and maintain accuracy at least in MY rifle.

As far as that goes there's nothing wrong with 1700 fps. for paper or hunting imho. Only need for more speed would be for flatter trajectory.

[Yodogsandman]

A Question for you 35 Guys ?
Has anyone ever tried IMR 4320 in the Whelen with Cast Boolits ?
It is slower than 4064 but faster than 4350 and has given me good performance with J bullets.
It isnt because it is the only powder that I have, I have some of almost all of them.
I am just trying to see what others have tried.
I have tons of H4831, for the 25-06 but I know that one is way too slow for this big boolit.

I think ol' Paco liked to use WW760 which would also be between the two. I'd certainly be interested in your trials.

[TXGunNut]

Loaded a few for the 360-230 today, SWAG'd 54grs of IMR4350 and 48grs IMR4895. Don't try this at home, kids! I pulled these loads out of my load notes (and somewhere else ;-) ) so of course they won't be safe in your gun!

[35 shooter]

A Question for you 35 Guys ?
Has anyone ever tried IMR 4320 in the Whelen with Cast Boolits ?
It is slower than 4064 but faster than 4350 and has given me good performance with J bullets.
It isnt because it is the only powder that I have, I have some of almost all of them.
I am just trying to see what others have tried.
I have tons of H4831, for the 25-06 but I know that one is way too slow for this big boolit.
Well now. Guess who just happened to find an old metal can of 4320 tucked away about 3/4 full? Also a metal can almost full of 4831. Price tag was old and faded but i think it says $9.95. Unfortunatly the 4831 can has a bit of rust in it. 4320 looks and smells good to go.:)

[TXGunNut]

Well now. Guess who just happened to find an old metal can of 4320 tucked away about 3/4 full? Also a metal can almost full of 4831. Price tag was old and faded but i think it says $9.95. Unfortunatly the 4831 can has a bit of rust in it. 4320 looks and smells good to go.:)

Just checked, no 4320 on the premises but a careful search revealed a can of 4831SC, not sure how it got here but since I haven't seen it on the shelf in awhile it's way down my list of "try" powders. In these trying times the amount of powder on the shelf is second only to it's suitability for the project at hand.

[LAGS]

If I can get free tomorrow, I am planning to get out with the Whelen and try loads with the 280gr NOE 360009, and some loaded with the 245 gr NOE both loaded with IMR 3031.
I did get some boolits cast and PC'ed today, but I am short on empty brass to try them tomorrow.
With the 360009 I did PC some of them and left the GC and Bore Riding section un coated.

If I do get out, I will try and get some pictures of my targets for you.

[TXGunNut]

I had to use RP brass today, brings back memories of when trimming and deburring was part of my normal case prep routine. Sure wish Hornady would ship some brass!
Hope you get out tomorrow, will post if I can slip out but weather and obligations are making it look unlikely.

[LAGS]

All I have for the Whelen right now is Remingtom Brass, except for some old Hornady 06 cases that I converted to .35
I had bought 100 R&P empty cases a few years back, but I had sold off 60 of them to a buddy that doesnt shoot his Whelen much.
My cases have 5 reloads on them right now, and dont look like they will last much more than 2 more loadings even shooting cast with them now.

[TXGunNut]

My Hornady cases appear to need annealing or replacing after about five to eight firings. Still reading up on annealing, when I have a nice pile I may give it a try.

[LAGS]

I did make it out to the range for a while today.
I did not have a good day.
It was cold, I forgot my jacket, and there was a stiff wind blowing, and made it hard to change targets.
But the whelen did well with the NOE 360009 and 40 grains of IMR-3031.
It kicked more than I expected for a cast boolit load.
The groups are nothing to write home about, but were consistant.
Three shots together , then the second two walked a bit.
I really think it was because I was getting pounded by the recoil after too many shots in a short time span.
The 245 gr NOE did not do as well with 44.0 gr of 3031, and it will need some more tuning, but the recoil was nice.

[armoredman]

Target pictures of LAGS trip today.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/LAGS/PCing005_zps2c564646.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/armoredman/media/LAGS/PCing005_zps2c564646.jpg.html)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/LAGS/PCing006_zpsf4c47208.jpg (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/armoredman/media/LAGS/PCing006_zpsf4c47208.jpg.html)

[LAGS]

Thank you Armoredman.
Like I said, the groups arent that great.
I need to up the powder on the 245 gr boolit, and take a little more time between shots on the 280 gr boolit.
But still 3 shots in under an inch and the 5 are less than 2"
I estimate the 280 boolit was clocking around 1900 to 1950 FPS.
We will have to Crony that load.
But 40 grains is only one grain above the min load for the 3031 in the Lyman book.

[TXGunNut]

The 360009 does indeed show promise, hope load development continues to progress for you. Barely got into the 40's here today with a stiff wind, passed up a range outing as I don't do well under those conditions.

[LAGS]

I think I will stick with the load I had for the 280 gr ,or maybe go up .5 gr of 3031.
But in looking at the whole target, the 245 wasnt really that bad.
The first three shots were at the center of the target.
Then the scope was adjusted slightly, and two shots fired at the top left corner.
Then the last round was fired at the lower right hand corner.
If you overlaid the two squares from the last three shots I took, the group isnt really too bad.
But I will be doing some tweaking on that bullet and load combination.
Remember, the 245 gr boolit is the one that I have NO loading data for, so that load was just a starting load "guess "

[armoredman]

Gotta start somewhere. :)

[35 shooter]

Nice start with the 009 and 3031. And yes that boolit does get your attention a bit when you touch one off. Accurate and hard hitting though.

[LAGS]

I did expect a Kick, it is a Whelen.
But it almost feels like a J bullet load, and I am at the bottom of the loading curve with this powder.
It wasnt showing any pressure signs.
I want to try the 009 that I E S powder coated only the shank , and left the bore riding section exposed lead.
I did spray some of the 245's also , but I coated them all over.

[Yodogsandman]

I'll be interested in how you do with the PC'd shanks. I started some testing with just my shanks PC'd on the NEI 358 282 (301gr) in the 35 Whelen. I'll go back to it in the spring. So far, accuracy was better with lube.

I wanted to play with the 358009 and it delayed the PC testing. Then the NOE 360 230 came about...

[LAGS]

I have some of the Shank Only PC'ed boolits loaded up with 40 gr of 3031
And I am trying some of the PC'ed 245 gr loads with the 44 gr of 3031 and I am trying 32 gr of H4198 since I ran out of IMR - 4198.
That was the first load that did so well with a lubed boolit.
Now , I just have to get off work to get to the range.
I have been on all night concrete pours for a week, and am running two construction projects right now.