Trouble getting the last of the lead out of revolver

[Landshark9025]

S&W 66 - 4" BBL, slugged to .358
Boolit - Lee TL 158g and regular 140g SWC, sized to .359 w/ Lee push through after coating. COWW. Casting temp about 700-750, aged over a month.
Case - Winchester 38 SPL
Primer - CCI 500
Powder - Bullseye 3.3 - 3.9g
Lube - Hitek Gold, (two coats)

So, I am experiencing some leading after about 50-100 rounds. Whether or not it is significant, I can't tell. No frame of reference. What I do to remove it is:
Run several patches through the bore soaked in Hoppes
Put a generous squirt of Hoppes in the bore so it is all soaked
Run a brush with choreboy wrapped around it(also with some Hoppes) on it back and forth. After about every 30 strokes I will run a patch through and clean it out.

I can't seem to get all of it off the forcing cone- which makes me think I might be more susceptible to leading the next time. Which in turn makes it harder to figure out what is causing the leading. If you could take a look at the images below and let me know if this could be a problem and result in more leading next time, that would be great. These pics are after I ran it back and forth about 200 times. I have tried it with just one two foot strand wrapped around the brush and with a whole bunch wrapped around as well.

Since my sizing die is .359, I may not size the next batch (provided they are no larger than .361) and see if that helps with the leading but I figure I need to get this all out first.

Thanks,

125033

125032

125034

[PbHurler]

I occasionally will get the leading at the forcing cones when developing loads & tinkering with alloys.

The Lewis Lead Remover tool includes a Cone that you can place a screen over to remove the leading in the forcing cone area, and I'll say that they do work.

Brownells carries the entire tool, or the cones & screens individually

125036


I'll let the experts here critique your alloy / load combination

[Blackwater]

PBhunter nailed it. One other helpful thing is those lead remover cloths, or "Miracle Cloths." Cut square patches out of it, use a slightly undersized brass brush, and they'll clean your bore better than brand new. They also remove any grunge that may also be present. It's good to clean a gun to pristine condition occasionally, and these two things help make it quick and less onerous.

[runfiverun]

that's a mechanical gun problem not a load issue.
try to capture a boolit and look at how it's being engraved.
the gun may need to have the forcing cone cut.

[Landshark9025]

Correction- if it makes any difference. Got home and dug out the slugs and checked the records. Barrel slugged at .356 and the cyclinder throats were .357-.3575.

Run: would a bucket of sand work or would that distort it too much?

Looks like an order to Brownell's is the first stop.

[runfiverun]

if that's what you got.
snow is the best thing I have ever seen for capturing boolits in good shape.
the sand would work to show if you are hitting the cone at a crooked angle, and might be enough to show if you are swaging the boolit down somewhere in the loading or shooting process.
I don't know if your whole barrel is getting leading or just the forcing cone, but it's certainly where your problem is starting. [unless it's in the loading process]
you are doing everything right in the casting and sizing department.
the only thing you really can look at is your lube, an fcd type thing, or the gun.

[lwknight]

I used a old bore brush with some 0000 steel wool wrapped around it on a cleaning rod connected to a drill motor. I first spun the brush on a jewelers rouge block then inserted it all the way into the barrel and pulled it back against the forcing cone and polished it to a mirror like finish. Vioal! no more leading.
Most SW forcing cones could use some opening up anyway. I had a Ruger cone bored to my 29 and made a super fine shooter out of it.

I'm betting that your cone is just rough and clinging on to the lead.

[kungfustyle]

Montana Cowboy works well, but takes time. Jb's bore paste works too. Looks like you could hit it with a brass brush if its just on the rim.
There is a reamer for a 357 that you can borrow on this web site too, just do a search for chamber reamer. lwknights suggestion looks promising as well.

[Petrol & Powder]

The Lewis Lead Remover would be my first choice.
If you don't have one-
A larger bronze bore brush, like say .40 cal. screwed into a non-rotating cleaning rod works well to clean the forcing cone. You insert the rod from the muzzle without the brush attached. When the rod protrudes from the forcing cone, you screw the brush on and then pull the brush against the forcing cone and rotate the rod to clean the forcing cone. You have to turn it in the direction that keeps the brush tight so that you don't just unscrew the brush. A little chore boy on the brush will also help. When done, unscrew the brush and remove the rod. Works pretty well.
A tapered lap with JB bore paste can help clean up machining marks on in the forcing cone.
Before you attempt to re-cut a forcing cone make certain you: 1. need to & 2. know what you're doing. It's not hard to take metal off but it's really difficult (and expensive) to put metal back on.

[Toymaker]

Plug the muzzle and set the pistol in a clamp or something so it is firmly and positively in an upright position and won't tip over. Fill the bore with mercury and let sit overnight. Pour the mercury back in the jar. Clean the bore as normal. The lead is all gone. ALL the lead is gone. - - - go ahead, fuss, carry on, talk about how dangerous mercury is, but you know what???? It works.

[kevtherev]

I think you need to start over. Clean the barrel and forcing cone using a Lewis Lead Remover. Nothing home brewed works as well as easily. Then slug your barrel AND cylinder. Measure using not calipers but a micrometer to .0001 not a typo. Hopefully cylinders are around .001 to .002 larger than groove diameter. I would then use boolits matching cylinder diameter. Do not deform or resize the bullet while loading. My $.02. Maft Dardas and this forum taught me.

Kevin

[kevtherev]

I will add if there is a shoulder or edge where the lands starts that needs to be addressed too. Also, it is Matt Dardas from Dardas Bullets. Good luck and enjoy the process; you'll get it.

[Landshark9025]

Thanks, all. I ordered the Lewis Lead Remover. I'll start there. Once we are all clean, then will see if leading returns.

[MtGun44]

Put a patch with fine grinding compound on the Lewis forcing cone
cleaner and polish out the tooling marks that are common on the
forcing cone, or have a gunsmith recut and get it smooth in the
cutting.

Bill

[tazman]

With a groove diameter of .356 and cylinder throats of .357-.3575 you are not doing yourself any favors by sizing to .359 or larger. You cylinder throats will be swaging down the boolit as they leave the cylinder which both increases pressure and runs the risk of distorting the boolit before it ever gets to the barrel. It may also be wiping a lot of the lube off the boolit. If this is happening, the part of the boolit being swaged is most likely being pushed to the rear of the boolit in the form of a small skirt and being blown into the forcing cone by escaping gases as the boolit enters the barrel.
I would try sizing the boolit to .357 or .358 and lubing after sizing to make sure it is lubed properly. If the grove diameter is truly .356, a boolit sized at .357-.358 and properly lubed should not lead the barrel. This is something that will probably need to be done whether you do the other suggested modifications or not and will almost certainly be the least expensive.

[gpidaho]

Birchwood Casey Lead and carbon removing polishing cloth is hard to beat getting that last bit of lead out. As above, just cut to patch size and use on an under-sized jag. GP

[Shiloh]

Another vote for the Lewis Lead Remover.
After you get it cleaned, I'd be curious to know what the forcing come looks like. Is it rough with tool marks in it??

Shiloh

[tward]

See that you are in FL so if you go to a marine store they have bronze wool, like steel wool but softer bronze. Boaters like it because the particles don't rust. It's plenty hard enough to remove lead and soft enough not to damage the forcing cone or rifling. I wrap it around a bronze brush and use a scrubbing motion, works great! Good luck, Tim

[Landshark9025]

Is there an advantage to the bronze wool over Chore Boy? I'd be happy to search that out if so.

Thanks for the feedback all. As soon as the LLR comes in and I get it all clean, I'll post some new pics. Then we can see if it should be polished or not. Maybe once it gets cleaned once and for all, it won't happen again. Maybe.


See that you are in FL so if you go to a marine store they have bronze wool, like steel wool but softer bronze. Boaters like it because the particles don't rust. It's plenty hard enough to remove lead and soft enough not to damage the forcing cone or rifling. I wrap it around a bronze brush and use a scrubbing motion, works great! Good luck, Tim

[warboar_21]

In a 3oz. bottle add 1.5oz of peroxide and 1.5oz Vinegar and shake it up. Plug the barrel and then stand it on end of that is plugged. Fill up the barrel with the mixture and let it sit for 3-5 mins. When you see that the bubbling has stopped you can dump out the mixture. The lead will be dissolved. Then run a few wet patches or rinse with water and then dry the gun and oil it. The mixture is perotic acid and used to clean commercial kitchens and equipment.
I have used this on my Model 66, several Blackhawks, my Rossi M-92, and an Enfield. It has worked well to remove lead faster than any other method listed. My model 66 is the worst offender when it comes to leading with commercial wadcutters. They worked fine out of my J frame but not worth a darn out of the 66. This method has helped me clean the lead out of the barrel so I can keep shooting them instead of throwing out the ammo.

[gunoil]

Toynaker!
Mercury is the way iam headed. All the lead paint and mercury we were around when we were young. Nowdays we have gloves. l can blame lead paint on anything l do wrong and mercury.

[btroj]

Put a patch with fine grinding compound on the Lewis forcing cone
cleaner and polish out the tooling marks that are common on the
forcing cone, or have a gunsmith recut and get it smooth in the
cutting.

Bill

This is precisely what I did with my GP100. Lead doesn't stick in that area at all.

[Petrol & Powder]

Lewis Lead Remover first and go from there. Hold the revolver by the barrel, it requires some force to pull that brass screen through the bore!

[Petrol & Powder]

And if that doesn't do the trick, btroj is correct on the next step.

[btroj]

Let me clarify, I used abrasive paste and the Lewis lead remover. Use a muzzle guide to keep the rod centered, add some abrasive, and spin with a drill. Doesn't take long to polish those marks away.

[lwknight]

Let me clarify, I used abrasive paste and the Lewis lead remover. Use a muzzle guide to keep the rod centered, add some abrasive, and spin with a drill. Doesn't take long to polish those marks away.
Yes, do use the drill motor. Not only on the forcing cone but the cylinders as well. I polished my cylinders and now when I shoot 38s, the ring of residue cleans off easily.

[TXGunNut]

Until you address the cause you're only treating the symptom and will have to continue to do so. A rough forcing cone will collect lead every time you shoot lead bullets. A proper forcing cone and proper boolits reduce leading, a nice slick bore helps too. My PPC revolvers shot thousands of swaged lead rounds with no cleaning of the bore other than an occasional dry brush and patch. I'd clean the cylinder and the face of the forcing cone after every match but the revolver shot best if it was seldom, if ever, cleaned. The theory was that lead accumulated up to a point and stopped. I don't know if PPC shooters are still doing it that way but when I was shooting many of the top shooters seldom, if ever, cleaned the bores of their match guns. My open gun had custom Douglas barrels but my stock guns were touched up here and there, one area was the forcing cone.

[Landshark9025]

Hey Btroj and LWKnight: What type of abrasive paste are you referring to? Are we talking valve lapping compound or something else? Once I get it all out of the forcing cone and barrel, I am def. keen on stopping it...just don't want to ruin anything in the process and spinning an abrasive paste on the forcing cone and cylinders seems fraught with danger so will want the right kind.

TxGunNut - agree 100%. Once I get it out, I think it has to be either(in no particular order):
1. Bad application of coating
2. Roughness of cyl. and forcing cones
3. Fit
4. Gun flat doesn't like these types of boolits
5. Gun flat doesn't like Hi-tek coating

Alloy is COWW so that should be ok.

Thanks,

[tward]

Advantage of bronze wool is that it comes in several grades like steel wool and all are finer than chore girl. Tim

[TXGunNut]

One possibility you left off your list is timing issues. I don't see any indication of it in your pics but it will show up as lead deposits on the rear face of the barrel, usually to the right or left of the bore. Never seen an issue with roughness inside the cylinder but I haven't looked many of the newer guns over that closely.
I've heard that today's revolvers are built to accommodate J-words, not boolits. That may help explain a rough forcing cone, copper may not be as fussy about finish in this area.

[btroj]

Hey Btroj and LWKnight: What type of abrasive paste are you referring to? Are we talking valve lapping compound or something else? Once I get it all out of the forcing cone and barrel, I am def. keen on stopping it...just don't want to ruin anything in the process and spinning an abrasive paste on the forcing cone and cylinders seems fraught with danger so will want the right kind.

TxGunNut - agree 100%. Once I get it out, I think it has to be either(in no particular order):
1. Bad application of coating
2. Roughness of cyl. and forcing cones
3. Fit
4. Gun flat doesn't like these types of boolits
5. Gun flat doesn't like Hi-tek coating

Alloy is COWW so that should be ok.

Thanks,

I used 320 grit silicon carbide in grease by Clover. Don't go coarser than that. Go slow, clean, and check your progress often. Much easier to remove more, damn hard to add it back.