Troubles with my first NOE HP mould.

[mattw]

I have a brand new 360-160 2 cavity mould with the RG pins. When I got it, I cleaned it with dish soap and hot water, then I heat cycled them in the oven for 3 cycles from room temp to 400 for 30 minutes and back to room temp. I got to try it out today, I filled the cavities and lubed the sprue plate and mopped up any excess lube. Finally ready to go! Lead at 720F, mould has been sitting on top of the edge of the lead pot during warm up... Started casting bullets, none would come off the center pins... Had to use pliers to pull them from the pin! Not working so well, cast about 20 sets and it did not get any better. So, I polished the pins some, still no better.

I did get 5 good bullets, after I switched to the cup point pins. Any idea what is wrong?

Really need help...

Thanks Matt

[Love Life]

Cast faster.

[Beagle333]

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,185.0.html

LL has it down. Here is a more expanded version, saying basically the same thing. 8-)

[Wolfer]

Just got my NOE mold a couple weeks ago. I didn't heat cycle per say. I cleaned it up and cast a small handful of boolits with it. Yes the deep HP pins did not want to turn loose. I had to pull several off with pliers.
Next day I repeated and as soon as I started getting frosty boolits the pins started releasing.
While I believe heat cycling in the oven is better than nothing I feel there is no substitute for casting sessions.

This is my first NOE mold. It won't be my last. I'm duly impressed.

[MarkP]

I keep a propane torch handy and will feather it over the pins even after I preheat my NOE 360-180 WFN brass mold. I have mine drilled for the temp probe I preheat to around 300 F. This mold had a learning curve of a few casting sessions.

[RED333]

Yep, them pins got to be HOT!

[pretzelxx]

Get some 1000 grit and polish?

Of course after proper temperatures have been reached!

[Bzcraig]

Everyone is right more heat and don't stop to check out your boolits. There is a significant learning curve with hollowpoint molds. I too use a propane torch to heat the pins and I run my pot up to 750.

[mattw]

I have always used the Lyman and Ideal single cavity hollow point moulds. They are fairly easy to get hot and keep hot. I think I am going to have to get a real hot plate, one of those little cheap single element ones. I am sure that it was heat on the pins..

[Dale53]

One thing that I found helpful is to put a coat of mould release on the pins. The bullets just all off the pins, even rather rough ones.

FWIW
Dale53

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Ask your questions, read the comments you get back, then read the threads and sticky's...that is the reverse of how to use the site, but what ever works for you , I'm sure you will have more questions , so ask away , none of us knows all the answers or what will work for others, Welcome and heat them pins[smilie=w:

[harley45]

I run my pot at 750 and preheat my hp molds on a hot plate, then I cast as fast as I can and sort later. Works with my brass NOE molds.

[44man]

A great fellow sent me his to try out and I got it working but it seems brass gives up heat fast and the large blocks need more heat. Once I had it working I got beautiful boolits.
Just a learning curve.

[mattw]

I did read the threads and stickys, I was afraid the problem was cold pins... but I just could not see that being the case with 730F alloy and 20 or so filled moulds. I have several Lyman HP moulds and have never stuck a pin in them, granted they are not aluminium and the pins do come out. I will crank up the pot temp Wednesday when I go back to my casting room. I am going to pick up one of the little Aroma hot plates as well, they are cheap and reported to work well.

Thanks for the input, Matt


Ask your questions, read the comments you get back, then read the threads and sticky's...that is the reverse of how to use the site, but what ever works for you , I'm sure you will have more questions , so ask away , none of us knows all the answers or what will work for others, Welcome and heat them pins[smilie=w:

[tomme boy]

If you do not have a hot plate, it is going to take more than 20 pours to get it hot. Does not matter if you had it sitting on top of the pot or not. I let my HP moulds sit for 45 minutes or longer on a hot plate to make sure for the heat to be transferred into the pins. The heating is the hardest part of the learning curve of these moulds.

[Boolit_Head]

750 would not work for me with my new NOE 452-230 HP mold. I had to get the heat up a lot more but started turning out perfect bullets. Once they really heat up they drop off the pins better as well.

[Love Life]

NOE moulds, both HP and regular, like to run hot. I run them hard until I start getting lead smears, and then slow down to a comfortable cadence.

[DHC]

NOE moulds, both HP and regular, like to run hot. I run them hard until I start getting lead smears, and then slow down to a comfortable cadence.

Likewise. I use lead smears as indication that the mold is VERY slightly hotter than it needs to be - then just slow down the casting cadence slightly.

I also tend to run the melt a bit hotter than many here - almost at the 800 mark on my RCBS pot. I've wondered if my elevation (approximately 6,000 feet) might have an effect on melt temp - but in any case, I get better results with hotter melt.

FWIW

[mattw]

Wow, I will crank the heat up, just built a PID for the RCBS so I can do it accurately and see where it begins to work. I have 40 or so Lyman/Ideal and RCBS moulds only a couple of LBT aluminum and a couple of Lee aluminum moulds. So, I am not super experienced with aluminum moulds and then throw in the pins... I really did not think it would need to be that hot. I will learn to use them, I have 2 more on the way! The few I did get with the cup point pins are very smooth and look great. I was pleased with the bullet over all, it was dropping .3612 with my alloy. I normally cast at about 710-720, my LBT's like about 750 to really smooth out.

Thanks again.

[h8dirt]

I had the same issue with my first NOE HP (and hollow base) molds. I went to the NOE forum for advice. Here's what I learned … as mentioned above, make sure the pins are hot. It's hard to get them fully up to temperature with a hot plate. I heat mine a little extra with a propane torch just before I start to cast. Also, I polished my pins bright and slick with 1000 grit paper and then cold blued them. And, I touch them with just a very, very light coating of sprue plate lube (using care not to touch the bullet cavity) before I start to cast and every 50 cycles (or so). I also discovered that the mold handles will draw off heat much faster than the mold blocks with an aluminum mold. So, I pre-heat my blocks on a hot plate and I pre-heat my mold handles separately with a propane torch. I heat the blocks to 375 F and I heat the handles to 400 F. I use an RCBS Pro-Melt with a PID controller and I use an alloy of 2/8/90 (close to "hard ball") for my 38 thru 45 caliber handgun bullets. I have found that 725 F works fine for me. If you get your melt too hot it will cook off the tin (not good).

I'd bet your issue is cold pins that need a smidgen of lube but I thought I'd share a few additional tips. Good luck and Merry Christmas to all.

[Screwbolts]

Wow, I will crank the heat up, just built a PID for the RCBS so I can do it accurately and see where it begins to work. I have 40 or so Lyman/Ideal and RCBS moulds only a couple of LBT aluminum and a couple of Lee aluminum moulds. So, I am not super experienced with aluminum moulds and then throw in the pins... I really did not think it would need to be that hot. I will learn to use them, I have 2 more on the way! The few I did get with the cup point pins are very smooth and look great. I was pleased with the bullet over all, it was dropping .3612 with my alloy. I normally cast at about 710-720, my LBT's like about 750 to really smooth out.

Thanks again.

PIDs are great, yes they are, I have 3 that I use regularly.

IMHO, unless you bought a certified and calibrated PID, along with the very best certified and calibrated thermocouple, and then had them tested and certified in operation together. You and I have nothing more than a great readout and switch that turns our different heaters on and off. With that being said, I can't say with any certainty that my alloy temp is: X, or my Star needs: Y. My molds tell me what I need to set the PID at, I only hope my PIDs are repeatable.

Your LBT molds are already telling you,, you are, TRYING TO RUN, your NOE RG mold way to cold. Just re read, the last line of your own post.

Once you realize what the mold wants and is telling you, and you start satisfying its need for heat, I believe you smile will last for days on how great they drop beautiful boolitz. I have dropped over 10,000 358-135 RFs from a NOE, RG 4.

Incidentally, my LBTs also like to run hot. And you can often find a thermometer in my PID controlled pots.

I know for a fact my PIDs came from lowest price venders, and I totally understand that they were built from lowest bidder supplied components. It amazes me that they work so well.

Ken

[44man]

I built a PID for my old Lyman pot, only way I got it to work with a bad thermostat, pot too old so can't get a new one. Lady at Lyman laughed at me for how old it is. Fella sent me a thermostat and it did not last long.
Once set I measured the voltage and could set it that way but even with a huge heat sink, it burned up and parts to fix it cost more then a new Lee pot.
Wish I had one that could take the heat.

[mattw]

I do have the luxury of a calibrated within the last year Fluke that was calibrated with it's attached Fluke K-type probe. The PID unit was within 2 degrees F of the Fluke to 400F the jacket on the Fluke TC is only rated for 500F and I did not want to damage my daily user, now it could skew above there. But, 5 or 6 degrees is better than the 65 degree swing I was seeing in the pot with the stock thermostat. With the above stated, the PID I am using is rated at +/- a given percentage and the probe is rated the same way. Worst case add the extremes on each end and the rig should, and I say should, be within that spec. If the aggregate is below 3%, I would be happy, but I expect 4-5% since the imported PID and included TC is rated at .2%. I really do not believe the .2% and there is no spec for the PID and the TC I used. BTW, I still have a mechanical thermometer in the pot, one that I have used for years and trust! I may give that up in time, but it will be because I am comfortable with the PID control.

44man, when I built this one I used a large heat sink on the SSR and I used heat sink compound on the base of the SSR. My RCBS draws 648 watts on my branch circuit that is supplying 108.3V. Way out in the country, so mains are very low. My SSR at this point never gets more than about 10 degrees above ambient. I do tend to over engineer things, larger gauge wire, heat sinks and anything else that will increase the life of a device. I was a little surprised by how little power the RCBS used, I thought that the coils were 800 watt max draw. The most I saw with a stone cold pot was 675 watts.

Thanks again for the input. I will run the blocks warmer, more like my LBT's and see what happens! I have very few blocks that are aluminum and I have been reading that excess heat can damage them, so I tried to start as low as possible and work up. With the pins, it is clear that I am to low. I hope to have a picture of a pile of bullets cast over the next few days with my new NOE moulds... yes my 403-200 arrived yesterday and I am still expecting a 403-180. I could not pass up the sale prices of the 2C blocks over Christmas.

Merry Christmas and all have a great New Year!
Matt