CB for 454

[h8dirt]

I have an ordered a 454 from Freedom Arms. While I cast my own "boolits" for a number of handgun calibers (including 45 Colt), I have no experience with lead bullets (or the associated loads) for the 454 Casull. And, none of my shooting buddies do, either.

I am interested in any experience or advice you may be willing to share.

Thanks in advance!

[tygar]

I used to talk with Dick Casull & his son fairly often back in the 80s about my various FAs. They were adamant about shooting 260s for "light" & 300s for "heavy" hunting etc. The exact loads for both were:
all the H110 you could put in the case & still crimp the bullet. They said you can't put enough powder in it to hurt their gun. He was able to do 2k+ with the 300.

I have a lot of molds from 255 - 335 that I have used but Dick was right as far as I'm concerned, 260 for deer etc, 300 for moose, griz etc.

Just start at 28gr & work up until you have what you want.

[44man]

Yes, hard cast works. even drove PB to super groups at 50 yards at max pressures.

[Tatume]

The biggest problem with loading for the 454 Casull is loading too little powder. With the slow burners like H110, W296, and Accurate No. 9, you need to stuff enough in there to get reliable ignition. Many of the reloading manuals have starting loads that are too low, and will not work. The recoil from the previous shot will pack the powder against the base of the bullet. When this shot is fired, the primer will not ignite the powder, but will fuse it into a lump, and force the lump of powder and the bullet into the barrel. You must then remove the obstruction or the next shot will destroy the gun (and yes, that applies to Freedom Arms guns too).

If you must use light loads, use an appropriate powder. Unique works well at around 1100 fps. Do not attempt to use the powders above for less than about 1400 fps.

[RobS]

I shoot either a 310 grain or 345 grain LFN style design I put together. I mostly shoot the 345 out of the Casull and then the 310 out of my Ruger Bisley 45 Colt. I do have a 260 grain 454640 mold however I don't shoot it very often.

If you are looking at a non custom mold then the Lee 452-300RF gas check mold works well and comes in lubed, checked and ready around 325 grains. The Lyman mold 452651 GC mold has also been a good one and NOE molds has the copy that you can have gas checked or plain based IIRC. He also has a pretty nice 350 grain double crimp groove design that looks interesting.

[454PB]

If you are looking at a non custom mold then the Lee 452-300RF gas check mold works well and comes in lubed, checked and ready around 325 grains. The Lyman mold 452651 GC mold has also been a good one and NOE molds has the copy that you can have gas checked or plain based IIRC. He also has a pretty nice 350 grain double crimp groove design that looks interesting.

These are the two moulds I use the most, and for lighter loads, I like the RCBS 270 SAA.

[gpidaho]

I can't say if its fact or rumor on the FA revolvers but I have read that boolits for them need to be sized to .451 as they are tight chambered. My 454 is a 15" T/C Encore and it chambers .452 just fine. I use the Lee C452-300-RF with full case of H-110 This boolit has a wide meplat and is gas checked. GP

[wlc]

I'm also using the Lee 452-300RF. Right now loading it over 4227. I also have the MiHec 462 hammer that I plan on sizing down to try as well. For a less punishing load for plinking or whatever try about 8 or 9 grains of Titegroup under the Lee 300RF bullet. This load was suggested to me by Bobthenailer and works well. I've gone up to 10gr in MY 454 with no ill effects.

[454PB]

I can't say if its fact or rumor on the FA revolvers but I have read that boolits for them need to be sized to .451 as they are tight chambered. My 454 is a 15" T/C Encore and it chambers .452 just fine. I use the Lee C452-300-RF with full case of H-110 This boolit has a wide meplat and is gas checked. GP

My FA 83 uses boolits sized .452", but will not accept anything over that.....they won't fully chamber. But, my Taurus Raging Bull and Ruger SRH are the same.....nothing over .452" will fit the chambers without forcing them in.

[gpidaho]

wic: And I thought using tightgroup was an original idea. LOL I've been using 8.5gr. in my Encore with Casull brass or just some 45 Colt brass for a couple of years now. That way my middle finger on the right hand might last me on out. That 15" Encore will bite pretty hard with full bore loads. GP

[vernb]

23 grains of 2400 with a Lee 300 is my accurate load in my raging bull. At 452 they don't fit in a freedom arms

[h8dirt]

I can't say if its fact or rumor on the FA revolvers but I have read that boolits for them need to be sized to .451 as they are tight chambered.

Freedom Arms own load data says, "Bullet size: .451"/.452".

[MT Chambers]

I size all my bullets for the FA .454 to .452" and no problem chambering them, same thing for my extra .45 Colt's cylinder, in the same gun.
For light loads I use Trail Boss as it tends to fill the case.

[Kansas Ed]

I built guns for FA from 1989-1997. Cylinder throats are .4520-.4525 IIRC. I believe that towards the end of my time there, we may have allowed .4525-.4530 provided there was no more than .0005 variation in any given cylinder. I do remember extensive testing to prove there was no degradation in accuracy, and there wasn't.

If you read FA's notes on bullet selection there is a staunch warning about using hard bullets regarding forcing cone wear. That warning is not just lawyer speak. When you push the pressures of the .454FA cartridge into the higher ranges, soft core bullets will quickly erode the forcing cone. I was never completely sure of the mechanism which did this, but had my theories. I've seen it happen with very little exposure to soft core bullets. But this is only when you push pressures to the top end. Keep the velocities/pressure down and you shouldn't have an issue. That doesn't mean that you are relegated to 45LC loads with normal bullets, just keep them out of the 454 operating norm. I know that it was sure an easy spot when doing the reworks. if people were using soft core bullets at heavy velocities.

A lot of boolit shooters used to send their guns back to get new cylinders fit, and we saw where someone had opened up throats substantially in order to chamber larger diameters. There is no need to do this with the FA 83. I've shot hard cast boolits with remarkable accuracy at .451-452 diameter.

I still have a healthy stock of the old FA built bullets, so don't know what is out there currently for cup and core. But choose your projectiles wisely.

I would be interested in the forcing cone area of some other brands of handguns chambered in that cartridge, if anyone has any insights.

Ed

[454PB]

I keep an eye on erosion in all my .454 revolvers (as well as my other magnums). I used H-110/WW296 and AA #9 for all my high pressure loads for many years. More recently I've been using Hodgdon Lil'Gun, which has an internet reputation for burning hot and causing increased forcing cone and top strap erosion. I see no difference in erosion progression with Lil'Gun. All magnum handguns are subject to erosion, it's the nature of the beast when pressures are run at or near maximum for thousands of rounds.

My Ruger SRH and Taurus RB show a little more than my FA, but that is because they have fired more rounds. What I notice most is top strap cutting.

Many years ago my first .357 magnum was a S&W model 28, which I abused with over 30K rounds of heavily loaded cast boolit loads utilizing H-110/WW296. When I finally traded it off, the top strap was cut quite deeply.....nearly 1/3 of it's thickness. However, the gun never lost it's accuracy, and both the top strap cutting and forcing cone erosion seemed to stop after about 25K rounds.

[h8dirt]

These are the two moulds I use the most, and for lighter loads, I like the RCBS 270 SAA.

Thanks, 454PB (a quite appropriate handle BTW). I have a NOE version of the RCBS 270 SAA that I am beginning use in my 45 Colts -- primarily the NMBH S/S Bisley. I bought this revolver with plans to immediately send it off for a 5-hole conversion. I opted to keep it as-is and order a 6" Freedom Arms M83 Premier 454 w/45 Colt cylinder instead. That way, the wait is about the same, the cost is about the same and I get to end up with both guns in two calibers. That's how I ended up in the 454 Club.

When using the 270 SAA in the 454, can you describe/characterize the load you use and the results you get?

[454PB]

I like BlueDot for reduced velocity loads, and 16 grains behind the 270 SAA (which actually weighs 275 grains in my alloy of wheel weighs + 2% tin) chronographs at 1195 fps. from my 7 1/2" RSRH. I get good accuracy and zero leading.

[h8dirt]

I like BlueDot for reduced velocity loads, and 16 grains behind the 270 SAA (which actually weighs 275 grains in my alloy of wheel weighs + 2% tin) chronographs at 1195 fps. from my 7 1/2" RSRH. I get good accuracy and zero leading.
Excellent!

I had the good fortune of finding a half ton of foundry type, have about an equal amount of pure lead on hand (and growing) and an ample supply of 50/50 solder. So, I am able to mix a nice, consistent alloy. I have settled in on a blend that works out to roughly 2/8/90 (Sn/Sb/Pb) with a Bhn of ~16. Using this alloy and my NOE mold, I get 282 grains (unlubed) with the 270 SAA design. I have been using a mix of 50/50 Carnuaba Red and BAC from White's Lube and having good luck in a variety of mid-velocity 38 thru 45 caliber loads.

Which lube do you prefer in the 454 loads?

[454PB]

I always made my own lubes until it became hard to find Alox. I then ordered a big box of BAC and found it cheaper than making my own. Over the last 40 years I've experimented with various home brew lubes, but none worked better than the BAC.

I, too, was lucky enough to be given a pick up load of foundry type, monotype, and linotype many years ago. I mix it with pure and/or COWW as needed for various boolits, since I cast for all my handguns and rifles.

[44man]

The biggest problem with loading for the 454 Casull is loading too little powder. With the slow burners like H110, W296, and Accurate No. 9, you need to stuff enough in there to get reliable ignition. Many of the reloading manuals have starting loads that are too low, and will not work. The recoil from the previous shot will pack the powder against the base of the bullet. When this shot is fired, the primer will not ignite the powder, but will fuse it into a lump, and force the lump of powder and the bullet into the barrel. You must then remove the obstruction or the next shot will destroy the gun (and yes, that applies to Freedom Arms guns too).

If you must use light loads, use an appropriate powder. Unique works well at around 1100 fps. Do not attempt to use the powders above for less than about 1400 fps.
Exactly correct. Stay away from book starting loads with H110 or 296.
I cured the problem by cutting down .460 brass and using a LP mag primer. I opened primer pockets with a tool I made but it is tricky, tricky to get good primer fit, gave that up.
The wear factor at the cone is real, friend shot only magnum factory loads and not only wore the cone and a portion of rifling but also made the throats oblong in around 300 shots. Seems the cylinder was not in alignment and too tight. I could plainly see the edge of each throat through the barrel.