Gun prices online vs local dealer markup

[Merick]

Comparing prices of several things on line to what local dealers have in stock it seems there is quite a divergence in favor of the local dealers (no surprise). But how much is understandable and at what point is it egregious? I understand a store front has overhead, but to be 8 multiples of transfer fee plus shipping over median online prices it appears some local dealers are begging people to buy from someone else.

Related; how much do you pay for a transfer? ($40 ouch!)

Clarification; current production not short supply items for the sake of discussion.

[Love Life]

I pay $25.00 for a transfer. 90% of the firearms I buy are bought online. It's odd that I can buy a gun online, pay shipping, pay transfer, and still come out under what the local gunstore is asking.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

one of my local dealers charge $35 transfer fee
another one (hardware store)charges $25

If you are talking used guns, many times, online sellers are not dealers, hence the lower pricing.

[Love Life]

New guns coming from brick and mortar stores in other places are cheaper after all said and done compared to my LGS.

[GoodOlBoy]

One of our local shops charges $65 for a transfer, acts like a rear end whenever you are in his store for ANY reason, and on average charges $200 to $300 MORE for the same guns you can get from academy, wal-mart, gander mountain, etc. You even mention reloading stuff around this guy and he will throw you out of his store, and forget about muzzleloaders he won't even order them, buy them, or sell them.

The next shop is over an hour away. They charge $30 for a transfer and are happy to just shoot the bull with you for an hour or two...

GoodOlBoy

[Hannibal]

One of our local shops charges $65 for a transfer, acts like a rear end whenever you are in his store for ANY reason, and on average charges $200 to $300 MORE for the same guns you can get from academy, wal-mart, gander mountain, etc. You even mention reloading stuff around this guy and he will throw you out of his store, and forget about muzzleloaders he won't even order them, buy them, or sell them.

Wow. How does the place stay in business?

I don't have a problem paying a mark-up to the LGS so long as it's not excessive. The issue I run into is finding what I want. I nearly always know what I'm after BEFORE I set out to buy. Tried ordering stuff. Doesn't always work out.

[tomme boy]

One store it is $35 another new store that opened is $15. Guess which one everyone is going to.

[GoodOlBoy]

Wow. How does the place stay in business?

I don't have a problem paying a mark-up to the LGS so long as it's not excessive. The issue I run into is finding what I want. I nearly always know what I'm after BEFORE I set out to buy. Tried ordering stuff. Doesn't always work out.

Because 99% of his business is buying guns and jewelry off of desperate people. I have a sneaking suspicion he is selling them off either online, or through another store in another town. Anyway it's just odd that the guy DOES stay in business considering there are almost never any customers in his store buying anything, just those desperate to sell for a few bucks.

GoodOlBoy

[nagantguy]

Online is almost always cheaper fer the guns I buy, if its even close I try to buy local but buds is always hard to beat fer price, I got a guy will do transfers fer 20 USD. With that and shipping online is still usually cheaper, leaving me with more fer molds and powder.

[DCM]

LGS near me is fairly reasonable on stuff they have in stock. Special orders are a waste of a ton of time, usually months.
I found a FFL that charges a much lower transfer fee with none of the drama.
He does it part time and loves firearms more than $$$.

[pretzelxx]

I don't really like all of the local shops, too many rude people. There's one i like but its probably a 30 minute drive on a good day. I plan to order online and bite the boolit on a local with low fees. Its cheap!

[oldfart1956]

Fortunatly, locally here I have several private individuals with FFL's and transfers are $18/20. But they have little overhead. And of the 5 new handguns I've bought off actual gun shops this year I haven't paid a single transfer fee. (no transfer fee on new guns) I've looked at online purchases but till you tack on all the additional fees I'm not seeing the savings. Four of the handguns I paid less than Buds online price for. Go figger? Audie...the befuddled Oldfart.

[petroid]

My favorite LGS does xfer a for $15. I have had several online purchases done through them. They are happy to do it for less than the other guy. And they sell on consignment for only 10% commission. I buy from them if they have a good deal. If not, they are happy to get my xfer fees.

[kopperl]

You sure you didn't wander in to our local store?
One of our local shops charges $65 for a transfer, acts like a rear end whenever you are in his store for ANY reason, and on average charges $200 to $300 MORE for the same guns you can get from academy, wal-mart, gander mountain, etc. You even mention reloading stuff around this guy and he will throw you out of his store, and forget about muzzleloaders he won't even order them, buy them, or sell them.

The next shop is over an hour away. They charge $30 for a transfer and are happy to just shoot the bull with you for an hour or two...

GoodOlBoy

[dragon813gt]

$20 fee, as long as it's not from Bud's. Closest shop that will perform a transfer from them is about an hour away. I tend to buy old guns online. Saves me lots of money in gas driving all over just to find out no one has what I'm looking for. New guns are a wash. It might be $20 cheaper to buy online. But then it has to be a planned purchase. I like stopping in and being surprised by a lovely new firearm in the case. They usually leave w/ me in that case. Lately the dealer I use for transfers hasn't been answering or returning my calls. I've been trying to order a rifle from him. Looks like I will just buy from Gunbroker and just use him for the transfer.

[Huskerguy]

I must be very fortunate. My LGS just changed hands but he promised to do business just like the guy he purchased from. He was always the best price I could find on firearms. Kept his prices very competitive. His inventory was not always what I was looking for and in those cases he helped me find it, actually turned me onto Buds. Charges $20 to do transfers. If the new guy is close to the former (he actually worked for him for several years) then we are good to go.

[Petrol & Powder]

It has a lot to do with the gun itself. Popular guns that sell quickly can often be found at reasonable prices in gun stores. Guns that are not as popular are: A. difficult to find in small gun stores and B. often cheaper online even after transfer fees and shipping costs.
I think it is always wise to get a good idea of the market you're operating in (both local and on-line) before putting money down.

[GhostHawk]

In the last year I have bought 8 guns. All online. Best deal was for the Pair of Mosin's from Cheaperthandirt. FFL fee's total for both was 25$. 20$ for the first and 5 for each additional gun.

I checked the local pawn shops, but everything was either way out of my price range, in calibers that I had no interest in, or both.

I have recently switched to a different FFL, because he would accept from private owners not another FFL. My original FFL dealer was a pawn shop and I started noticing that I was having problems. In one case waited for 3 weeks for the gun only to find that the guy selling it still had not gotten the FFL info.

So I got ticked off, canceled the sale, threatened him with major bad press all over the internet to get him to retract his restocking fee.

Found a new FFL that is easier to deal with, and have continued to buy online.

Still paying 20$ for FFL transfers, but when I give my FFL a Email heads up he contacts me 3 hours later saying handshake is complete and the gun is being shipped. He contacts me again when he gets it and we arrange a time to meet at his office.

I understand that local gun shops, sellers have overhead. But I have also seen those same company's giving low ball offers for used guns, and 3 days later its out for sale not marked up double, but 6 or 8 times what they paid for it. That is highway robbery in my opinion.

Midwayusa gets the majority of my die, mold purchases, Amazon gets some. For ammo or componant's I do tend to shop around a lot. But I have bought several things from Selway Armory over in Montana. And I'm always willing to give them a plug. Good prices, good service, reasonable shipping, fast delivery.

I have also bought both powder and primers from Recob's target shop over in Wisconsin. (Great company)
And most recently from Bass Pro Shops and Cabella's.

I'm holding fire right now on a 300$ or so order, waiting for someone to get in some Promo or Red Dot.
First outfit that does also gets the chance to sell me a bunch of primers. :)

Spreading that 28$ hazmat fee over 4 pounds or more of powder and 4k of primers takes a lot of the sting out of it.

[smoked turkey]

In our area the store prices reflect internet pricing because they use the internet to sell some merchandise. The fact is their selection is pretty small. On the other hand they are always willing to do the transfer for about $25 on internet purchases. As a general rule if they have what you are interested in the prices are not too different than internet and they can be inspected before you buy. I would much rather buy locally than risk shipment and payment of transfer fees. The catch is their selection is small compared to big box stores or an internet site like GB.

[singleshot]

Online is almost always cheaper fer the guns I buy, if its even close I try to buy local but buds is always hard to beat fer price, I got a guy will do transfers fer 20 USD. With that and shipping online is still usually cheaper, leaving me with more fer molds and powder.
At this point, I'd check out impactguns.com and cheaperthandirt.com. The last few I've bought from them beat or matched Budsgunshop without the misleading "buy it now" prices and last minute auctions on high demand items. I pay $15 for transfer fees.

[petroid]

I have found really good prices at CDNN

[A pause for the COZ]

My guy charges $20 but I usually buy a couple boxes of ammo as a thank you. he also got me for a Mosin M38 once too.
So I dont feel bad about paying only 20 bucks.
I suppose it depends on the hook.
The LGS that I usually buy powder, bullets and other reloading supplies. Is busy all the time.
But charges $50 for a transfer. I asked him why so high.
He said dont need it. Its really just a waste of our time. In the 20 minutes I take up for a transfer I can can sell $200 worth of other stuff.
Plus I am not storing some one else s **** in my safe.

So if you have a cheap one. treat them right and keep them going.

[Beagle333]

I can always get it cheaper online. Even with shipping and $30 transfer from the pawn shop. Local guys are all very high.

[snowwolfe]

When I lived in Alaska the majority of my guns were purchased at one LGS since Alaska doesn't have sales tax. But now it doesn't make much sense to be loyal to the local guys. They charge to much and on top of that I have to pay sales tax.
Now I order everything online and have it shipped to a dealer just up the street from me. He charges $25 per call to transfer so if two or more guns come in around the same time its just one $25 fee to call all of them in. Plus no sales tax.

[uncle joe]

I have a friend with a ffl, charges $15 once I bought 2 and he charged $20 for both. He also told me when I asked him what the best price he could get a gun for that I could buy them as cheaply as he could. So now I find what I want online and make sure they have his ffl on file and order it myself and have it delivered to his addy. Did it once riding down the road home from work lol

[MaryB]

My LGS always matches online prices and if I buy from him no transfer fee... his fee is low to $20 for people who do ship stuff in. Worst case was he was $20 more 1 time and couldn't go lower. But he sets aside 22lr for me, always gives me rock bottom ammo prices so paying a bit more is worth it.

[Love Life]

I've been looking for a better shop here. The gunshop I used in Nevada was the bomb. Great prices on used guns, and not shabby on new ones either.

[cbrick]

I much prefer to deal with a local gun shop but it's not always practical. We have a fairly new LGS here that I don't even bother going into anymore. It's one of those stores that if you don't talk 600 rounds a minute they have no time to talk with you and a good part of their inventory reflects that. One place here that I do like, friendly, knowledgeable and is fairly competitive on guns, scopes & such but forget powder & primers. He seems to think you have to have it and he's the only one that has it. Last week was nearly $40 a brick for primers and a quick look at the price tag on an 8# of powder said nearly $200. His prices on things like die sets & such is competitive but a quite limited selection. I've bought both guns & scopes from him but Powder Valley is where I've been getting powder & primers. I support the local guy until the price difference gets ridiculous.

Rick

[shoot-n-lead]

I do not buy a bunch of guns, but I bought 7 this year and they were all bought online...and the same last year. I just cannot find the guns I want locally and I also will not pay what the local dealers want for their guns. Their shops are more geared to the occasional gun buyer that doesn't really care what they pay.

[wv109323]

The FFL dealer I use charges $20.00 or 25.00 depending on who does the transfer. Most of the LGS do not have in stock what I want to buy. The pawn shops around me usually have nothing I would take home at any price. Single barrel shotguns with the forearm taped on. They pricing is on anything is ridiculous to say the least.

[Frank46]

My dealer charges $25 for a transfer. And I'm happy to give it to him. He's a good friend and welcomes you in his store with a handshake. I know he's been hurting this last few years what with the shortage of ammo, high prices on firearms so when I need something like a new knife I go to him as he usually has a good selection of benchmade knives. Last one I bought had a list price of $205 and I got it for $165. Frank

[TUG]

I only buy online what I can't find local, mostly old 3 screw Rugers, and the like. $35 transfer fer for one or a dozen.
ronnie

[tunnug]

One of our local shops charges $65 for a transfer, acts like a rear end whenever you are in his store for ANY reason, and on average charges $200 to $300 MORE for the same guns you can get from academy, wal-mart, gander mountain, etc. You even mention reloading stuff around this guy and he will throw you out of his store, and forget about muzzleloaders he won't even order them, buy them, or sell them.

The next shop is over an hour away. They charge $30 for a transfer and are happy to just shoot the bull with you for an hour or two...

GoodOlBoy
We had a store here that the owner acted the same way, the few times I was there he'd be nasty and short like you were wasting his time, he must've pissed off the wrong person because he was found knocked out with the snot beat out of him (he was in his 60's) he was taken to the hospital where he lingered for a few days then died, they never found who did it. Nothing was stolen in the shop and I believe he still had his personal gun on him when found.

[bobthenailer]

My small local gun shop charges $15.00 for a transfer ! I have been told most other larger stores charge 35 to 50 dollars in my area.

[trapper9260]

In the past years ago there was one sporting goods store that I done alot of buying there and I had won a hand gun at a trapping convention and needed someone with a FFL and I talk with him about it and ask him how much it would for the fee and he said nothing because of the buying I did there.He not there any more because his health put him out of doing it and then he died.The one I deal with now he is lower then what is list on line and just charge 7% on what he needs to order or sell.if he has it no transfer fee.I just need to make a call to him about what I want and all ,and then pick it up when I am ready.He also runs a gunsmith shop also and is busy on that also.If he can find it for me he can get it.

[georgerkahn]

The sales tax (8% here) is often significant -- where, on a purchase out of state shipped to mine, sales tax is not exacted unless seller has bricks in this state. Eighty dollars on a thousand IS significant, imho, and this alone often makes a transfer fee "a wash" or still a bargain. Further, if one gets a C&R FFL, most all firearms ('cept, in this state hand-guns which need go through a dealer) 50 years old &/or older may be shipped directly to buyer. A HUGE "however" though, imho, is dealing on line gives no assurance re the safety/quality of any firearm so purchased. A friend recently got the deal of the century on an M1 carbine -- to find someone had drilled and tapped the receiver for a scope: IS it safe to shoot? (He is justly afraid...) When it's in the local shop(s) and I have $$$ -- I'll make an offer. Xfers run from $25 to $40. If everyone buys on-line, locals will all go belly-up. On the other hand, if I want (need :) ?) a particular antiquity -- then what's a few extra bucks (again, often a wash vs sales tax) to keep a local dealer afloat -- AND perhaps get him or her to (gratis) check out the new purchase?
Just a few "cents"....
georgerkahn

[buckwheatpaul]

About the only time I buy on-line is when I cant find it locally....but by careful lookin' you can find a gun at a price that is comparable to local including shipping and transfer.....the reason I generally buy locally is kind of like the ammo shortage....if we lose the local gun shops there will be less and less places to get the toys we enjoy.....

[KCSO]

Remember your small dealer doesn't get the prices you see advertised. Most of the DEALS are buy 3 buy 5 and get this price. A small dealer PAYS for his guns what Wal Mart SELLS for... Then you add overhead and add in some more for a lack of local suppport and it's no wonder the poor local dealer has to charge $40 for a transfer and a hundred more for the gun you buy. Smal business in general takes it in the shorts from the Wal Marts of the world. Everyone would rather drive 50 miles and save a buck or two then complain because the local ???? doesn't stock this or that or overcharges. EG Today I have a flyer from a distributor for Ruger 10-22 rifles at 191.00 dealer cost with a discount for 5 or more. I need one for a customer so I order at dealer and pay $25.00 shipping and get the rifle in at $2.70 MORE that Walmart 50 miles away is selling the gun for and I still haven't added the 30-35 % I have to get to pay the bills.

[starnbar]

Yes you can find cheaper prices on line but I dealt with the same shop for over 35 years and sometimes it was a little higher and sometimes it was lower but if I had an issue with anything I bought they took it back no questions asked and you can't beat that type of service. Like some others have said used gun prices were a place where I could haggle or trade and both of us walked out with a fair deal. Plus there were a lot of retired fellas who used to stop by the shop including some S&W factory armorers and if you knew them they would fix your revolver or pistol right there for whatever the parts cost. You can't do that on line.

[brtelec]

I buy almost all my firearms online unless I stumble across a used treasure at an LGS. The guy that handles my transfers does only transfers and charges $20-. He gave me a copy of his FFL so I never have a problem with getting them to the seller in a reasonable time. This set up works great.

[dakotashooter2]

I like to offer the local guys an opportunity to match or come close to the price. Often they can't come close but don't get huffy about it. I think what many Dealers don't realize is that even though we may want a gun most of us have some sort of budget. Yes the online dealers are competition but if they don't have the gun it doesn't mean we will just go to the dealer and pay what he wants. In many cases we just won't buy that gun ,period' or wait till we have more funds. Often the dealer ends up with a choice of not making anything or making a few bucks off the transfer. The smarter guys are learning that doing transfers can be a business in itself. It's not as much money as a sale BUT the dealer has no money tied up in a transfer so it is pure profit.

What irks me is the dealers like the guy on the show GUNFATHER. He pi$$es and moans to a seller that he can't make a profit on the price the seller wants (which is generally fair even to a dealer) then when a deal is made he turns around and sells it for twice what he paid.

Around here some guys will go cost plus 10-15% on new stuff and will generally give you 75-80% of book when they buy or trade.

[paul h]

I don't have a problem paying an extra $20-30 to buy a gun locally as I get to inspect it before purchasing it, but if I'm going to save $50 or more, I'm going on line. I have a buddy with an FFL so I don't have to pay a transfer fee.

[Outer Rondacker]

Well now this is a good thread. I have had this gripe for a while now. I can go online and find a gun add the shipping if there is any most of the time if the gun is new there is not. Add the FFL transfer and then ask them what they can get it to me for out the door. I ask if they can match my price.(includes FFL and shipping) It has always been NO. They then tell me I cant even buy it for that. So I order it and pay them there FFL fee. Now for the fee. There is one small shop I love to use and he gets 25 dollars. If I go to the other shop its 55 dollars for a used gun. That is correct $55.00. If he can get the gun from his middle man then its 65 bucks. Needless to say I dont like this place and its the largest around.

[MT Gianni]

Gun shop in the town I work in 30 miles from home is $25, pawn shop there is $10 and the local pawn shop is free to local residents if you buy something. He rarely has more than 3-4 guns so I buy a pawned tool or something to keep him going. He says his only cost is 5 minutes of paperwork and a flat plan long distance call. He also has enough other business that I think he knows what he talks about. Last new gun purchase was 2 1/2 years ago several used gund bought and sold since then. Not much interest in a recently manufactured gun.

[freebullet]

I use to frequent a couple lgs but they went a little crazy with their prices years ago when everyone decided to panic. I have only bought a few locally and most of those are private owner sales. With 15$ transfers I save a bundle buying online. I wish some local dealers could sell guns at reasonable prices consistently but during the last panic I was able to get what I wanted and save over 150$ from the lowest price I could find local.

We have some shops around here that want 60$ for a transfer, treat you like a theif, or won't do them and I won't set foot in those joints we let the tactical operators have them. They will learn not to alienate their clients that buy when nobody is in a panic.

[Love Life]

You know, I hear a lot of stories word of mouth and word of type about gunshops with rude owners and poor customer service.

[freebullet]

Yeah it sucks too because I'd rather support a local mom & pop shop but they all got shut down or established panic prices. I'd even pay a little extra but they always want atleast 100$ over my shipped & transfered price.

[dragon813gt]

You know, I hear a lot of stories word of mouth and word of type about gunshops with rude owners and poor customer service.

Unfortunately it's the norm here. Most of the clerks aren't interested in helping you unless it happens to be a firearm they like. Most of the time they are Glock and AR fanboys. The looks I get when I ask if they have any Savage 99s or old Marlins is like a deer in the headlights. Most of them are also my age or younger. When I talk to one of the old guys it's a different story and they mourn the loss of the 99s like I do.

I really miss the shop by my cabin. Shop is still there but the guy that ran it passed away about five years ago. His prices were always high but we would talk for awhile every time I was in there. Which was practically every weekend. I did make some purchases when the price was right. The wife took over and is rude. Gets mad when you ask questions about the guns. The tags are to small and you can't read them from in front of the counter. Haven't spent a dime in there since. Well on firearms I haven't but it's a small convenience store so I buy some candy bars and such.

Hard to believe but after taking a number and waiting in line, like you're at a deli, Cabela's clerks are always friendly and helpful. But I've derailed the thread enough.

[Love Life]

The absolute most terrible gunstore I have ever graced with my presence is Flatwoods in North Carolina. It's a little way up the road from Camp Lejeune.

[MarkP]

I buy powder, wads, and primers at LGS as they sell at or below online prices and NO haz-mat fees. New guns are priced comparably to online. My transfer guy is $20 / 1, and $30 / 2, $40 / 3. He is retired and works from his home, great communication can pick up after normal business hours. I was paying $35 per transfer at a store near my work.

[Petrol & Powder]

As I understand the law, a FFL holder must have a place of business & pay a $200 fee for a dealer's class FFL. After 3 years it's a $90 fee per year? Or maybe 3 years, I can't remember the law.
So at $20/transfer you only need to transfer 5 guns a year to cover the cost of your license. Assuming you're running some type of business to cover the overhead for your "bricks & mortar" storefront (which doesn't even have to be firearms related) after those five transfers everything is profit. If you did 1 transfer a week you would bring in $1040.00 per year just for doing some minor paperwork and keeping a logbook.
You could run just about any type of business and transfer guns on the side for extra cash. You couldn't run a gun shop that way because your overhead would kill you but you could add gun transfers to an existing business. I know people that do just that.
An existing gun store that charges more than $20 for a transfer is over charging. They are making money by virtue of their possession of a FFL. I'm OK with the gun shop exploiting the law to use their FFL to make money but when someone attempts to extract $30+ just to do some minor paperwork (that they routinely do anyway) you should tell them that someone else will do the same thing for less. Competition is a good thing! Free markets work best when they are free.

[Merick]

I agree with p&p, it is not like a bank charges $40 to process a check (yet). Even at $100/hr wages it shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to complete the paperwork.

[paul h]

Running a business requires overhead (it's expensive!!!), and a transfer is direct competition against the guns they are selling in their store. So that puts the owner in a quandry, if he doesn't have any inventory, nobody will come to his store. If he puts 10's of thousands of dollars into inventory, and undersells himself with transfers, he's loosing money!

It has nothing to do with exploiting the law, a transfer is a service a business offers and there is nothing wrong with them profiting from their service. If their fee is too high, no one will use them. If there fee is too low, they might put themselves out of business.

And while it seems like just a few minutes of paperwork, he's also storing your gun for you from the time he receives it and you pick it up, and is responsible for it between the time he receives it and you pick it up. Not to mention he has the potential headache of you being unhappy with the condition the gun when you receive it, and the seller blaming the FFl who receives it for the damage.

[Merick]

I'm looking at a $700 gun. If a local shop was within $100 of internet (2-3x transfer+ship costs, and still $50-75 over invoice) I'd go with them, but $300 over? Sorry pal, I had to face my own risks and headaches for that dough. There is trade for value and there is standing on my back. Maybe they will get it, and I hope they do, but they won't get it from me.

[starmac]

Paul H your point is hard to make these days. There are a lot of ffl's that price them the way they do to keep from having to do outside transfers at all. They already have a business, and don't want a lower paid side business.

There will come a time when when there are no more lgs's to speak of. Everything will have to be done over the internet, and I hate to see that day come, as it will be the beginning of the end for our hobby.

[fouronesix]

After the short lived AR boom-bust some of the LGSs around here are struggling to keep enough business volume to stay in business. Of course those same businesses were/are the ones charging the extortion prices for simple FFL transfers. Many wouldn't have clue what a loss leader is and are still living 30 years ago when they were the only game in town. They still want to charge the extortion fee for a transfer and can't figure why customers go elsewhere and are still bitter and still getting closer to going out of business.

[starmac]

I worked with a guy that had a lgs here for a while, him and his employees were complete tactical nuts, and didn't know or care about anything else. I liked this as they would take in trade ins on tacticool toys and give nearly nothing for them. He would also pass them on cheap to move them, because his customers were all hung up on ar's ak's and the like. He had the idea that I would buy every cheap lever he took in on trade, which was fine as I usually got first crack. He took a ranch hand in and just couldn't belive I was not interested in it. lol

[Petrol & Powder]

Running a business requires overhead (it's expensive!!!), and a transfer is direct competition against the guns they are selling in their store. So that puts the owner in a quandry, if he doesn't have any inventory, nobody will come to his store. If he puts 10's of thousands of dollars into inventory, and undersells himself with transfers, he's loosing money!

It has nothing to do with exploiting the law, a transfer is a service a business offers and there is nothing wrong with them profiting from their service. If their fee is too high, no one will use them. If there fee is too low, they might put themselves out of business.

And while it seems like just a few minutes of paperwork, he's also storing your gun for you from the time he receives it and you pick it up, and is responsible for it between the time he receives it and you pick it up. Not to mention he has the potential headache of you being unhappy with the condition the gun when you receive it, and the seller blaming the FFl who receives it for the damage.


All businesses have overhead. No special burden for gun shops there.

IF you are collecting the fee for the transfer, you are not competing against yourself. In that situation you don't have any cost other than your time. You didn't buy the gun, you didn't pay to ship the gun and you don't need to display the gun; you just accepted a package and did the same paperwork as always.

You make MORE money on the inventory you own and actually sell - you get to mark up those items and you can make that profit whatever the buyer is willing to pay. When I purchased the gun and the FFL just handles the transfer; I assumed ALL of the risk. The FFL will make money on the transfer regardless of the cost of the gun because the FFL will bare none of that cost.

I don't have to have a federal license to buy a book (or just about anything else) from another state but because of the 1968 Gun Control Act, I must have a FFL to buy a gun from another state. A FFL provides the holder of that FFL with an advantage that a non-FFL cannot legally exploit.

Storing a gun costs the dealer nothing! It is a function that he already performs. One more gun in the safe for two days does NOT increase his overhead. The safe and store are already constant expenses.

There's no headache for transferring a gun, the transfer FFL has no responsibility for the gun, it is not his property.

I don't have a problem with a FFL using his license to make money. I think they should be able to use that legal advantage to make money. I do have a problem with license holders that think they have NO competition for that empty line in their log book. They are entitled to use their position and license to make SOME money but I'm entitled to use the free market to keep my costs in check.

[MaryB]

My LGS is full service, sells via the internet, customizes guns, builds custom guns from scratch(Want a John Deer AR-15?), he repairs, he is more than willing to transfer anything I find on the internet if he cannot get it at a reasonable to both of us price, carries reloading supplies, carries bows and assorted accessories...

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/458700000/458700481/pix046960100.jpg


After the short lived AR boom-bust some of the LGSs around here are struggling to keep enough business volume to stay in business. Of course those same businesses were/are the ones charging the extortion prices for simple FFL transfers. Many wouldn't have clue what a loss leader is and are still living 30 years ago when they were the only game in town. They still want to charge the extortion fee for a transfer and can't figure why customers go elsewhere and are still bitter and still getting closer to going out of business.

[bnelson06]

Where's that one at Mary, I get over that way quite often

[MaryB]

About 3 miles north of Marshall on 59

[MtGun44]

Recently was involved in assisting an online sale. Price online, plus shipping, plus
transfer fee was substantially lower than MSRP + sales tax at LGSs in area.

Took a week, total. Since particular gun was not in stock at any nearby stores,
special order, likely longer than a week (depends on distributor stock, can be
months for some models) and MSRP + tax would have been the
alternative.

Bill

[David2011]

One LGS where I lived a few years ago would transfer for $25 unless it was something they stocked and then the transfer fee was $75. A LGS where I live now charges $100 to transfer AR-15s on any make/model because they sell AR-15s that you could have bought, regardless of how unsuitable they were for your purposes. They also charge $5.50/hundred for primers.

David

[Outer Rondacker]

Not to derail here but my LGS charges 5.99 for primers. There also getting 12.99 a box of 50 no name brand 22s. 33.99 a pound for Unique. They want 179.96 for Barns plated 230g RN a box of 250 for .451. Glocks are 699 new and there is around 500-800 guns showing at one time. Place is packed all day long. They ack like jurks. What ever they have in stock is the best. Wanted a ruger SR1911 they did not have any so they told me the remington R1911 or what ever it was is better and they have 5 in stock. You couldnt give me that ruger they tell me. Its not rite. I returned a week later and there was my ruger. May I see it please. My buddy asks how are the new remington 1911s. Same story. There junk you couldnt pay me to take one. The ruger on the other hand. I set it down and said sorry I just dont have the 899 for a new gun.

Now that I have messed up the thread I will say I am sorry. But if you read this you got to see some prices of my LGS and why I can not shop there. I drive over an hour and a half around the mountains I am in to the small shops in the woods.

[MtGun44]

I believe I would stop going to that gun store in the Adirondacks.

Bill

[Garyshome]

Usually best deals are FTF with people In State.

[Outer Rondacker]

Usually best deals are FTF with people In State.

I feel the same way. Oh wait I live in NY so I need to pay to have a gun transfer done any time I buy FTF. I dont mind them running a back round check. Have at it. I just wont pay 65 dollars a gun to have it done. NY state law is no more then 10 dollars. No one enforces it, but let me be found with a ruger 10/22 with a thumb hole stock on it and look out.

Bill I try really hard not to go there but when I am down that way I cant help but swing in. They dont get much money from me but when they do its one heck of a deal on my end.

[762 shooter]

Most of my purchases are new guns online. Availability and price are usually the reason.

Transfers run about $25.

762

[pull the trigger]

My LGS is the only place I use for everything. He is a tiny shop and gets whatever I want. Always at a very good price. I have bought several old Marlins from him and he is always way cheaper than the internet. And he is the third generation of his family running it

[Lance Boyle]

Not to derail here but my LGS charges 5.99 for primers. There also getting 12.99 a box of 50 no name brand 22s. 33.99 a pound for Unique. They want 179.96 for Barns plated 230g RN a box of 250 for .451. Glocks are 699 new and there is around 500-800 guns showing at one time. Place is packed all day long. They ack like jurks. What ever they have in stock is the best. Wanted a ruger SR1911 they did not have any so they told me the remington R1911 or what ever it was is better and they have 5 in stock. You couldnt give me that ruger they tell me. Its not rite. I returned a week later and there was my ruger. May I see it please. My buddy asks how are the new remington 1911s. Same story. There junk you couldnt pay me to take one. The ruger on the other hand. I set it down and said sorry I just dont have the 899 for a new gun.

Now that I have messed up the thread I will say I am sorry. But if you read this you got to see some prices of my LGS and why I can not shop there. I drive over an hour and a half around the mountains I am in to the small shops in the woods.

O/R,

I get around somewhat in parts of the ADK's, not sure what shop that is.

Only one I can think of that might be size and that I haven't been to in years is in Warrensburg.

[Outer Rondacker]

I do not wish to name a shop on a forum. Just dont feel it is a good thing to do. But I will give you a ruff location. Fulton county. After rereading my post in your quote I feel I might have been off on the number of guns shown at once. 300-400 is a better number after talking it over with a friend who stops in there with me.

Pull the trigger, I have a shop about an hour from me in the off tourist season that I just love. The owner is a reloader by trade and also runs his own little shop. I consider the owner a friend and he has helped me out more times then I can say. Prices are great. But he can not order a new gun at his cost and get it there for what I can find online and pay his FFL with shipping. I do not buy a lot of new guns. I prefer older items. I should add he does not stock new guns just used unless asked to get something. Lance Boyle you might have seen him at gun shows selling ammo in white boxes.

I guess my issue is if I see a gun shop I have to go in and shop. You never know when that AWWWWWA effect might happen. I just cant stand the fact that the shops hate the new law and know what the gun owners are going though and still rape us on transfers. Even with a state law in effect.

[gew98]

Don't get me started with LGS's within 50 miles of me. Most I have found to be retail bags of you know what. They almost don't care to be the middle man on deals to receive for an individual. They charge hefty 'transfer' fees and act like their businesses are being hurt by such . Same guys sell for a wad higher than deals elswhere and won't work on meeting or beating such prices. To hell with them.

[StolzerandSons]

I'm curious how many of you guys have actually run a small business in a retail industry...any small business, then I'd be curious to know how many of you have actually run a gun business, retail or otherwise? Ever dealt with the BATFE? Ever paid a lawyer to set-up an LLC? Ever dealt with the IRS on a corporate level? Ever priced insurance for a firearms related business? Ever had to deal with County Commissioners or City Council? How about compliance for storage of Black Powder, do you know what is involved in that? And the list goes on and on...

I'm just curious how many of you actually understand the costs of/have experience running a small business or more specifically a LGS?

[beezapilot]

I have a BIG LGS / pawnshop in town- over 6000 guns on display, well over 20% higher than on line and charges $75 for a transfer. There are NO bargains in that store. His ammo shelves are pretty much filled to capacity all the time. More like a museum as anything, interesting to walk through tho...

Another LGS down town is a combination Jewlery store/ Engraving shop/ Gun shop. $25 for transfers and is happy to do so. He is a big IDPA guy and carries mostly that sort of thing. He will special order most anything and come in under MSRP.

SO- I've not bought a gun over the counter in years, usually from forums and on line- with a friendly $25 shop to do transfers.

[Outer Rondacker]

OH boy S&S really. Yes.

[Love Life]

Pawnshops are about the only place I buy over the counter these days. They have really good deals on rifles to use as donors for other builds and other cool stuff.

[dragon813gt]

Pawnshops are about the only place I buy over the counter these days. They have really good deals on rifles to use as donors for other builds and other cool stuff.

Wish there were some around here. None of them have FFLs. They seem to only deal in stolen jewelry and power tools.

[MaryB]

Very aware, wasn't a gun shop but I had a TV repair shop of my own for a few years. Even working out of my house the expenses rack up fast. People complained when I charged $20 up front to repair a TV until I told them that people abandon stuff that is to expensive to repair then I have to pay the disposal fee... so $20 or take it elsewhere. Some went down the street to a guy who didn't charge up front. When he died they had to bring in 4 dump trucks to get rid of the garbage... and I am not talking old antique electronics, he had one truck load of old VCR's, another of late 80's TV's that have picture tubes that require special handling to dispose of now... he didn't pay to dispose of it but his brother got hung with a $500 bill + the cost of trucks


I'm curious how many of you guys have actually run a small business in a retail industry...any small business, then I'd be curious to know how many of you have actually run a gun business, retail or otherwise? Ever dealt with the BATFE? Ever paid a lawyer to set-up an LLC? Ever dealt with the IRS on a corporate level? Ever priced insurance for a firearms related business? Ever had to deal with County Commissioners or City Council? How about compliance for storage of Black Powder, do you know what is involved in that? And the list goes on and on...

I'm just curious how many of you actually understand the costs of/have experience running a small business or more specifically a LGS?

[starmac]

I am not, have never been and will never be an ffl.
I buy mostly face to face, so an ffl is not needed.
I may have it wrong, but doesn't an ffl have to store the transaction paperwork indefinately, meaning forever. That alone would put me off of doing cheap transfers for non customers right there.

I have seen it mentioned it is just 5 minutes of filling out easy paperwork.
While I have never owned or been involved with any lgs other than to leave them money from time to time, I have been in business for muself a big part of my life. There is no such thing as a five minute job of any kind, period.
I have had people tell me it will only take you 10 minutes, my reply usually was you have already talked about it 10 minutes, and haven't even decided if you are going to do it. I always figured when I stopped and dealt with a customer, that even if I did nothing but talk to them for a few minutes, by the time I resumed what I was doing to start with, I had lost 30 minutes minimum. It doesn't take too many distractions to totally screw up a day.

[dragon813gt]

It's more than five minutes of paperwork here. I'm usually there about 30 minutes. I fill out the form electronically which takes five to ten minutes. Then there is the wait for the background check to clear. And then there is some chit chat. I usually end up looking at some guns he's trying to sell for people. Which are never available to buy on the spot because the owners always want them to go to auction.

The FFL is required to keep the bound book. They are required to store your firearm until you make the transfer. And let's not forget that everyone is not on the up and up. My dealer has told me of straw purchases, theft rings and restricted persons attempting to make the transfer. Do you want to make a few bucks when there is a convicted felon in your store/house and you're told to stall him until the cops arrive? I know I don't.

[Outer Rondacker]

There is not a real pawnshop around me that I know of closer then 2 hours. They do not have guns or an ffl. Gun shops are going the way of the Dodo up here. The only new ones popping up are box stores like Walmart and Runnings, perhaps a Dicks sporting goods.

Try having insurance for an underwater diving crew. Some here may feel like they are better then others but from my outlook I enjoy sharing stories and asking advice from all of you. I do not feel above or below anyone. Lets keep the thread enjoyable.

[Down South]

I don't pay any transfer fee. I've dealt with the same guy for 25 yrs. I buy about as many from him as I have transfered to him so he doesn't charge me a transfer fee.

[MaryB]

Last time that happened at my LGS my gun dealer let all the regs know we had to hold a guy, he had him redo paperwork and while his head was down 7 guns came out and he was told to get on the floor. Cops got there and all they had to do was haul him, the guys zip tied his hands behind his back. He had 7 different sets of ID on him and was wanted for identity theft from local fitness places. There are always 3-4 of the regulars sitting around drinking coffee and BSing


It's more than five minutes of paperwork here. I'm usually there about 30 minutes. I fill out the form electronically which takes five to ten minutes. Then there is the wait for the background check to clear. And then there is some chit chat. I usually end up looking at some guns he's trying to sell for people. Which are never available to buy on the spot because the owners always want them to go to auction.

The FFL is required to keep the bound book. They are required to store your firearm until you make the transfer. And let's not forget that everyone is not on the up and up. My dealer has told me of straw purchases, theft rings and restricted persons attempting to make the transfer. Do you want to make a few bucks when there is a convicted felon in your store/house and you're told to stall him until the cops arrive? I know I don't.

[Handloader109]

I'll stick my 2 cents in. Not a ffl holder or dealer, but like most other businesses, there are a lot of overheads, and unlike a lot of other businesses, the feds are in your business a lot. No way $25 would cover your costs to transfer your gun. Be glad, no ecstatic if you can get it done for that. But buy something from the LGS if you want them to continue to be there for you next time.

[salpal48]

Many people Don't realize that Most on line store and big box store are connected to what is called" FulFillment". Unlike local or Mom & Pop who actually purchase all there items, own them , Finance them and sometime stuck with them. The other Big and Online are directly connected to the manufacture . To move inventory. You can tell a FulFillment when . is says. prices Higher in store. or any problems send back to manufacturer not to us.. it is just a matter of electronics. you click on line The order goes to the online store and to the factory @ the same time. When you pay, your payment goes to the store and the cost of that Item directly to the man. . The commission for the store stays with the order co. No inventory , No overhead , No problem. also major co. in most co subsidize there website. Only the retail price changes. this even goes with special purchases. The bigger on line store the deeper the discounts. . LGS and Other can not Or no longer compete. Unless you have extremely good credit with your distributer it is cash on delivery. also Big store do not deal with Distributers. all factory direct.. I have worked in The printing and FulFillment for 30 Years. Even with supermakets, clothing , auto , everything on line is Factory direct

[searcher4851]

Getting back to the original post, I get the best prices at my two of my local gun shops. One of them does transfers for me at $10.00 a pop. He'll also steer me to the best price online if I'm looking for something in particular the he doesn't have. Granted, I've been dealing with him since he opened, and have helped him get things going right. (I used to be in the gun business many years ago) He's more interested in getting people shooting than he is in the money. He's just good people. I just wish I could get him to branch out into reloading. I've purchased more guns FROM him than I have THROUGH him. I'm rarely looking for anything specific, and he just comes up with some really cool guns that beg to go home with me. When he can get deals on guns, he buys a bunch, and passes the savings on to his customers.