Inconsistent burn using H4227 in 38/40

[andym79]

Hi guys, I have put about 1000 rounds through mu old 38-40 (Winchester 1892), its an accurate rifle and fun to shoot.

I have never had complete burn of the H4227, often unburnt kernels would fall into action on extraction, but the bullets always hit the target and usually very well. I clean it after each match 40 or 50 rounds.

Recently however the burn has become less consistent with some bullets missing the target, a couple hitting the dirt a few yards short of the target, recoil not that there was much has seemed lower. The final straw came on Saturday when I got a squib, it cost me 100 points and when we moved back I changed to my 32-20 (no sight setting at thatr distance).

The powder was from the same can as in previous matches, the load was the same 18 grains of H4227, triple checked, the primers were the same LP federal, brass Starline full sized, the alloys was the same PB 4:1 Lino.

I am thinking of quitting H4227 in the 38-40 as an un noticed squib would have cost me more than 100 points.

How can I improve burn consistency?

1. Use LR primers?
2. Drill lout flash holes a bit?
3. change to a faster powder, I only have Trailboss, but its a bit wimpy at 100 yards and N110 for which there is not load data. I would like some Unique, but can't get hold of it!
4. Use BP?

What do you think?

[d garfield]

Try putting a little crimp on them,it may help.

[shooter93]

Try more crimp...I use Unique in the 38-40 with good results if you want to try another powder.

[fouronesix]

The 92 should be plenty strong but the brass has its limits. I doubt that BP will be any better than light, fast burn rate, smokeless loads at getting to 100 yards. IIRC, 4227 had burn consistency issues in the past so I quite it long ago in favor of 2400 in these type applications.

My favorite light load smokeless powder in the 38-40 is Trailboss. For zippier loads in the 38-40 Win M92, I load 2400 under a fairly soft 180 gr RNFP bullet. Might try 2400 if it's available there. One caution though about the stiffer smokeless 38-40 loads- the possibility of some finding their way into old Colt revolvers- not good.

[andym79]

Try putting a little crimp on them,it may help.

I do crimp it, I should have added that to the load details, its a fairly firm crimp. Alas, if only I could get some unique its listed for so many cartridges!


The 92 should be plenty strong but the brass has its limits. I doubt that BP will be any better than light, fast burn rate, smokeless loads at getting to 100 yards. IIRC, 4227 had burn consistency issues in the past so I quite it long ago in favor of 2400 in these type applications.

My favorite light load smokeless powder in the 38-40 is Trailboss. For zippier loads in the 38-40 Win M92, I load 2400 under a fairly soft 180 gr RNFP bullet. Might try 2400 if it's available there. One caution though about the stiffer smokeless 38-40 loads- the possibility of some finding their way into old Colt revolvers- not good.

That's the bullet I am using, and how many grains of the 2400? That I can get if I want but only in 8lbs jugs.

[claude]

More powder, either (H/IMR)4227 likes a bit more pressure to burn clean. In my 357 mag it is very trashy, and just to slow for that revolver, in my 44 mag rifles at near max it cleans up well, but not so much in the revolver.

[fouronesix]

That's the bullet I am using, and how many grains of the 2400? That I can get if I want but only in 8lbs jugs.

I'd say 8# would last a while!

I load 15 grains 2400 under a 180 gr RNFP flat base bullet of about BHN 9. You'll have to work up the load to see where accuracy and leading might become problematic and of course to look for pressure signs.

The 45th Edition (and earlier editions) of the Lyman Reloading Handbook shows 2400 loads for 180 gr and 172 gr jacketed and cast bullets up to about 24 gr. That seems way too hot to me so I've never approached those levels. I'd start around 15 gr and work up cautiously. The 15 gr load should be close to the standard factory level for that cartridge.

At one time Win offered 38-40 factory ammo for rifles only (namely the Win 92) at about 1900 fps. But folks can't/don't read box labels or cautions and that blew up a few Colt revolvers, so Win quit making the high vel "rifle only" loads. I don't know the powder used for those early high vel rifle only loads. Currently the factory standard load for the 38-40 is around 1100-1200 fps and takes into consideration the possible use in older Win 73s and older Colt revolvers. The Lyman manual lists Unique as the powder to duplicate that factory velocity level. I also don't know the powder used in more recent factory 38-40s loaded to those standardized, moderate vel levels.

[w30wcf]

andym79,
You might try magnum pistol primers. That is what I use with 4227 in my .44-40 '73 Winchester and Marlin Cowboy .44-40. I've burned about 12# of 4227 in that application under 205-215 gr cast bullets.

Large rifle primers are taller than pistol primers and require a deeper primer pocket than what is in your brass.

In my experience with the .44-40, it is pretty tough to beat the consistency and accuracy that b.p. can provide. I would expect the same to be true with the .38-40.

However, it requires a combination of right bullet, b.p. lube and the right b.p. to get these results at a pretty consistent 1,330 f.p.s..........

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/44-40100yards.jpg
What weight bullet are you using?

w30wcf

[Mr Peabody]

I had better luck in my 44-40 using a mag pistol primer instead of the standard ones, too close to max loads are better than starting loads.

[fouronesix]

1. Use LR primers?
2. Drill lout flash holes a bit?
3. change to a faster powder, I only have Trailboss, but its a bit wimpy at 100 yards and N110 for which there is not load data. I would like some Unique, but can't get hold of it!
4. Use BP?

What do you think?

The Win 92 is plenty strong for reasonable smokeless loads. You can use BP if you want and it will likely work well but it will require a whole new work up for extended competitive range sessions and a different cleaning requirement for both the gun and the brass. It will produce about the same velocity as the standard smokeless factory type loads. 32-34 gr BP will give about 1250 fps with your bullet. The velocity SDs for good smokeless loads and good BP loads will be about the same. If you want 1400-1500 fps for better trajectory to 100 yds, smokeless will easily do it but BP cannot do it.

As to the magnum primers?- I wouldn't. They can cause erratic performance in certain loads. The 38-40 is a small, fairly high expansion ratio cartridge and does not require a magnum primer to ignite the types of powder that are useful in the 38-40- including BP. I also see no reason to use LR primers.

As to enlarging the primer flash hole?- I see no reason to do it and have never understood the reason to do it. Although I read about it all the time??? :)

[44man]

Not strange to read this. 4227's were the worst powders I ever tried in the .44 mag too. The only powder for the .357 max though. There seems to be a caliber specific use with the powder.
In a few cases it gets very heat sensitive. I found pressures and velocity increasing more and more with each shot in the .44 revolver.
It was so bad that at 200 meters I would be 16 clicks too high on the sight and still hit the ground 50 meters short. Primers dead flat so I reduced the load with the same results.

[w30wcf]

The Win 92 is plenty strong for reasonable smokeless loads. You can use BP if you want and it will likely work well but it will require a whole new work up for extended competitive range sessions and a different cleaning requirement for both the gun and the brass. It will produce about the same velocity as the standard smokeless factory type loads. 32-34 gr BP will give about 1250 fps with your bullet. The velocity SDs for good smokeless loads and good BP loads will be about the same. If you want 1400-1500 fps for better trajectory to 100 yds, smokeless will easily do it but BP cannot do it.

As to the magnum primers?- I wouldn't. They can cause erratic performance in certain loads. The 38-40 is a small, fairly high expansion ratio cartridge and does not require a magnum primer to ignite the types of powder that are useful in the 38-40- including BP. I also see no reason to use LR primers.

As to enlarging the primer flash hole?- I see no reason to do it and have never understood the reason to do it. Although I read about it all the time??? :)

If accuracy is the most sought after requirement at 100, then velocity becomes secondary. Actually, there is less wind deflection with <1,100 f.p.s. loads than there is with 1,500> ones.

Perhaps magnum pistol primers give erratic performance in some situations, but not this one in my experience. The .38-40 and .44-40 have pretty much the same case capacity and only a slight difference in bore size that I wold consider them almost one in the same. I say that based on working with loads for a friends .38-40 awhile back.


I found that the mag primers work better than the standard because of the lower pressure loads (15,000) with slower burning powder. Now as more powder is being used and the pressures increases (safe in the '92 but not a '73), the need for hotter ignition disappears as the powder reaches its more ideal pressure range. I found that out in testing higher velocity .44-40 loads.

With b.p. I find that the milder the primer the better.

Speaking of b.p., if one uses a duplex load, say 4 to 6 grs. of 4227 under a compressed load of b.p. and a bullet lubed with b.p. lube like SPG, accuracy should be pretty good and the barrel can be cleaned like smokeless. The cases may still need to be washed in soap and water but if enough 4227 (probably 6 grs) is used, one likely will not need to.

w30wcf

[45-70 Chevroner]

If you can stretch the budget I would get the 8# jug of Unique. I have a lot of Unique and use it a lot. IMHO it is the best all around powder made. I'll get some flack for that.

[w30wcf]

Not strange to read this. 4227's were the worst powders I ever tried in the .44 mag too. The only powder for the .357 max though. There seems to be a caliber specific use with the powder.
In a few cases it gets very heat sensitive. I found pressures and velocity increasing more and more with each shot in the .44 revolver.
It was so bad that at 200 meters I would be 16 clicks too high on the sight and still hit the ground 50 meters short. Primers dead flat so I reduced the load with the same results.

I wonder if you had a bad lot of 4227(?). David Bradshaw, holder of the The IHMSA World Revolver Aggregate IHMSA (early1990’s), used 23/4227 in his Freedom Arms Casull .44 Magnum and was pictured beside the 150M turkey swinger with 5 shots averaging not too far from deadcenter.

I find 4227 to be the ideal powder in .45 Colt Ruger type loads with a capacity load under a 250 gr. bullet giving good accuracy and consistency. With 300+ gr bullets, H110 / W296 gets the nod.

w30wcf

[fouronesix]

I wonder if you had a bad lot of 4227(?).

w30wcf
The same thought crossed my mind. Maybe that can went bad? Maybe some lube migrated into some of the loaded rounds?

Hard to account for some rounds doing fine and some being semi-squibs. 4227 and 2400 are very similar powders and I've had no ignition problems with either powder. But, I began noticing some irregularities with 4227 in certain loads a long time ago and have used 2400 since. Sometimes cartridges in that class of volume and design have ignition problems with the some of the high performance ball powders in really cold weather. A few years ago 44 Mag gunners starting reporting problems with delayed ignition with certain ball powders in really cold weather- like zero deg F. I can't imagine that happening with normal use of 2400 or in warmer weather. And I certainly don't think that would be happening in Aus.

[Mugs]

Try a filler for better powder position. Would also keep any possible lube away from powder.

Mugs

[rsrocket1]

Trail Boss is a little too fast of a burning powder for your application and 4227 is a little too slow. Since you are in Australia, I would assume ADI powders would be easier to obtain and rumor has it that they had started production again and may even be shipping some out this way :). Try ADI AP100 or AP70N, AP70N is what we buy here (when it was last available) as Hodgdon Universal "Clays". It is their competition to Alliant's Unique. AP100 is slower and should get you higher velocities than AP70N and better burn than 4227, although something like about 5 grains of AP70N may be all you need.

If you are anywhere near a store that sells ADI powders, let us know if they are available. AS30N, AS50N and AP70N (Clays, International and Universal) have been non-existent here for a very long time since the drying room fire at ADI.

[44man]

I wonder if you had a bad lot of 4227(?). David Bradshaw, holder of the The IHMSA World Revolver Aggregate IHMSA (early1990’s), used 23/4227 in his Freedom Arms Casull .44 Magnum and was pictured beside the 150M turkey swinger with 5 shots averaging not too far from deadcenter.

I find 4227 to be the ideal powder in .45 Colt Ruger type loads with a capacity load under a 250 gr. bullet giving good accuracy and consistency. With 300+ gr bullets, H110 / W296 gets the nod.

w30wcf
No, used both IMR and Hodgdon. I used the same load as David too.
Actually my smallest group at 200 meters was with 4227 but it was cold out and I shot very slow.
I thought I had it made in the shade until on the line.
I had to turn my gun to see if it was bent.
The guys cussing up a storm all were using 4227.

[d garfield]

i find that if you use a little crimp it is more consistent, I know they tell you don,t have to crimp but I always use some.

[rbertalotto]

Squib? Bullet not reaching the target? Unburnt powder getting into the action?......And you are 110% positive you had a proper load?......Then you have a can of bad powder.

Can't think of anything else it could be.

[44man]

Squib--- No, not ever. just more velocity with heat. Only a boolit pushed out with the primer before ignition can squib. Case tension or a too strong primer.

[foxtrapper]

4227= magnum primers

[Mugs]

Like 44man said it was always the powder of choice for the 357Max. I used IMR instead H. It was also my favorite for 357. Lots of 40X 40 in my FA. I also used it at 17 grs. in the 7BR with a Rem. 7 1/2 with no burn problems.

Mugs

[andym79]

The load was right; whether the powder was bad or contaminated or could not say for sure.


So there are known burn issues with H4227 then?

I will do the ring around, but 3 months ago I couldn't get unique for love or money!

Not that I will try it, but I wonder if VV N110 would behave the same as H4227, I think it may burn a bit cleaner (I have 1 1/2 lbs).

[cbrick]

Andy, how old is the brass? If it's starting to age harden it's loosing grip and will shoot like a reduced load. Additional crimp won't help much for this, crimp is mostly to hold the bullet under recoil not for getting a good burn. Try annealing or new brass to see if the problem goes away. Since the load was working and now not so much and everything else being the same I would start by taking a good look at the brass.

Rick

[andym79]

Andy, how old is the brass? If it's starting to age harden it's loosing grip and will shoot like a reduced load. Additional crimp won't help much for this, crimp is mostly to hold the bullet under recoil not for getting a good burn. Try annealing or new brass to see if the problem goes away. Since the load was working and now not so much and everything else being the same I would start by taking a good look at the brass.

Rick

Perhaps I should try and anneal it, its been reloaded about a dozen times. Annealing is something I usually leave too long, though I normally get told that by some brass splitting at the neck.

Just as an extra, I checked the whole batch of brass for length and its all right and consistent.

[singleshot]

I'm baffled by all the reported problems with 4227. It's my most accurate powder with 44 mag 310 grain boolits and does fine with 240 grain loads for me in any weather condition. I've burned through about 10# in that capacity thus far.

[andym79]

I'm baffled by all the reported problems with 4227. It's my most accurate powder with 44 mag 310 grain boolits and does fine with 240 grain loads for me in any weather condition. I've burned through about 10# in that capacity thus far.

Why all this talk of 44 mag, we are talking about cartridges like 38-40, 44-40 and 40 S&W. H4227, H110 N110 are probably the best powders for the 44 MAG.

I use a lot of 4227 in the 30-30 and 38-55 and have never had this problem! It was accurate but has never burnt like I would like it to in the 38-40. I think the potential of bad powder or contaminated powder aside, the best options are
1) To increase the load from 18 up to the max of 24 and see if combustion improves with an increased charge.
2) To try a faster powder AP70 or unique if I can get hold of either!

[303Guy]

How is the hammer spring tension? It used to work and now it doesn't. It could be a weak spring - it is after all an old gun. You might also try Federal primers. They are supposed to be more sensitive and have a lower power (which would reduce boolit pushout before ignition - not sure that would apply though). But do check that hammer spring. It may have nothing to do with it but then it might not be giving the primer enough of a strike for a hot flame. Just to eliminate that as a possible cause.

[andym79]

"The powder was from the same can as in previous matches, the load was the same 18 grains of H4227, triple checked, the primers were the same LP federal, brass Starline full sized, the alloys was the same PB 4:1 Lino."

I am using Federal primers, I prefer CCI (that is what I use for all my SR and LR applications, they just didn't have LP CCI in the gun shops around me, so I have been running with LP Federal for the last year).

I will have a closer look at the hammer spring, but the hammer does seem to fall with a fair bit of force when I dry fire it.

On a similar note, whilst looking for other powders to fill the void:

I have been looking through my Lyman cast bullet manual and quite a lot of good loads seem to ask for Green Dot, Unique and SR4756.

To what extent can AS50 (International), AP70 (Universal) and AP100 be substituted for Green Dot, Unique and SR4756 and vice versa?

I know they are equivalents, but some times that means no more than there burn rates not other characteristics!

What are your experiences of substituting any of these powders?

[rsrocket1]

AP70 (Universal) is Hodgdon's direct competitor to Alliant Unique. So close that it is alleged that an Alliant engineer "gave away" the formula to the competition. I don't know about that, but you should look at your reloading books as well as Alliant's load data for Unique and the same application on Hodgdon's site for Universal. Look at cartridges other than just 38-40. You will see that they are so close that you can rest assured that a cartridge that works with Unique will certainly work with Universal. I would of course work up loads, but most likely you'd end up with the same charge weight in both cases. On the plus side, I've found that the ADI "Clays" powders tend to burn more completely even when "under pressured" and leave a cleaner barrel. The under pressure loads are still smokey and off sounding, but with the Alliant powders (Unique, Red Dot, Green Dot, Bullseye), there are a lot more unburned flakes that spew out in all directions. When I first started to load, I wanted to "be safe" and load with a double margin of safety. 4g Unique under a 230g 45ACP bullet certainly went bang and put nice holes in the target, but after a hundred+ rounds, there was so much unburned flakes in front of the shooting bench, I swept up a pile that could have loaded quite a few more rounds.

The cure of course is to avoid under pressured loads and get the peak pressure up to or over 9,000 psi where the powder likes to burn. Unfortunately for your 38-40, you don't have a lot of margin with the SAAMI spec being only 14,000 psi unlike a lot of modern handguns which can go to 35k or rifles that can go to 50k+.

I've tried Clays (AS30N) in equivalent weight charges which called for Trail Boss and the performance was very close. In the US, Hodgdon sells Titewad and that powder is also nearly an exact duplicate of Clays by weight (not volume). It is also a bit less expensive than Clays. Both Clays and Titewad are excellent powders for building up full pressure without driving the bullet too fast. That makes for an excellent low velocity/low recoil load and a clean burn.

I think you will be pleased with the AS50N and AP70N powders. You'll be able to shoot with a lot less powder than 4227 and get consistent performance. As always, start low and work your way up.

Good luck.

[w30wcf]

Why all this talk of 44 mag, we are talking about cartridges like 38-40, 44-40 and 40 S&W. H4227, H110 N110 are probably the best powders for the 44 MAG.

I use a lot of 4227 in the 30-30 and 38-55 and have never had this problem! It was accurate but has never burnt like I would like it to in the 38-40. I think the potential of bad powder or contaminated powder aside, the best options are
1) To increase the load from 18 up to the max of 24 and see if combustion improves with an increased charge.
2) To try a faster powder AP70 or unique if I can get hold of either!

At 24 grs you are likely to lead the bore since your bullet does not wear a gas check. You might try 20 grs first. The issue with the squib could have been a bad primer.

w30wcf

[andym79]

At 24 grs you are likely to lead the bore since your bullet does not wear a gas check. You might try 20 grs first. The issue with the squib could have been a bad primer.

w30wcf

I believe you are right, I think 20-21 is the upper limit with a GC.
I ran the load though quickload as a matter of interest at 17.5 grains of the powder it estimate that 73% is burnt, that is consistent with my continuous observation of unburnt powder. Raising the load to 20 only burns 80%, infact even 24 grains only consumes 88%; conclusion from the model, its the wrong powder.

AP70/Unique 7 grains looks like a good place to start 1300 fps 100% burn, in theory anyway!

[44man]

Why a .44? Well you could have the same problems. I figured as the gun got hotter, the more percentage of powder was burning. Heat soak rounds in the cylinder or chamber and more can burn.
I did notice with a cold gun I had more unburned powder. Then with each shot, velocity increased. each and every shot hit lower and lower. Anyway 4227 never goes in my .44 again.
Now in the max, it was supreme. I bought a Ruger .357 max and only had a 50 meter setting. Went to Youngstown Ohio to get settings at a shoot. I shot 39 out of 40 just sighting the gun.
Learning a gun means you need to interprate what each component is doing, from primer to lube.
It takes me 3 to 5 shots to see what is going on. Over 61 years shooting has taught me much because I don't read, I do the work. Bring your .44 loads here to shoot and I can tell you what primer you used.
ken waters states magnum loads of 2400 and 4227 loads should have never been listed but reduced loads are OK. He lists Unique, Herco and 4759. Brass does not last long and can get head separations. I would not push a 38-40 by adding more powder.
He stated a CCI LP mag primer worked better with 2400 and 4227 but I would dispute that in a revolver.

[andym79]

44 man sorry I mis understood what you were saying. So in the 44 mag H4227 was a questionable powder!

7 grains of Unique would be a better choice than hot rodding it with H4227 just to try and burn the powder, it is a 111 year old rifle, even though the 1892 was built strong. Now just to get a hold of some. If I can't it will be 9 grains of AP100 (closest powder SR4756).

[andym79]

Well I have search high and low for Unique and ADI AP70 to no avail, AP70 (Universal) should be available late February.

Trail boss works well but I am looking to get a bit more velocity for further out. Some suggested loads, using Clays and International make me a little uneasy as the fill only about 1/3 of the case.

I have been looking at it and I think ADI AP 100 or Vihtavuori 3N38 could be good powder for the 38-40. Loads using these powders 10 grains and 12 grains respectively should produce loads with clean burn over 1/2 fill and 1450 ish fps. however there is not load data for either of these powders. Has anyone used either powder in the 38-40?

I am reluctant to try these powders without real world trial even though QL predicts nothing untoward.

[Lloyd Smale]

4227 isn't a good powder for what your doing. It works well in magums at magnum pressures or in small rifle cases but is not a good powder to download. 2400 or even unique or herco would be a much better choise for you

[44man]

Powder selection is a hard thing since so many are listed in manuals. Might be 20 or more for your gun. But are all the same?
I fear 4198 too. It shot great with jacketed in my 45-70 revolver but when I went to cast, It started good until I had to pound out brass with a few shots, Not the whole cylinder full, just two.
A lesson learned so I kept testing to find 4759 was the best.
Pay attention as you load and shoot. I tried 3031 in the revolver to see about half the powder not burned but accuracy was good. I could outrun boolits.
Strange the very slow Varget burned all. I found Varget works with light bullets in the 7R and 7BR after hodgdon said NO.
Anyway I want hunting loads and Unique will never be my hunting powder.

[Lloyd Smale]

personally if it were my OLD 92 id be running mild unique or herco loads in it. I know the 92 will take a lot but if im going to hotrod the 3840 im going to use a new (cheaper) 92 like a rossi. Be a dirty crime to hurt that old classic.

[Lloyd Smale]

jim why would you want to force rifle powders into service in the 3840 when theres handgun powders that do much better. I can see them in your 4570 but not a 3840. Sure you can make them go bang but there just not efficient in a handgun sized case.
Powder selection is a hard thing since so many are listed in manuals. Might be 20 or more for your gun. But are all the same?
I fear 4198 too. It shot great with jacketed in my 45-70 revolver but when I went to cast, It started good until I had to pound out brass with a few shots, Not the whole cylinder full, just two.
A lesson learned so I kept testing to find 4759 was the best.
Pay attention as you load and shoot. I tried 3031 in the revolver to see about half the powder not burned but accuracy was good. I could outrun boolits.
Strange the very slow Varget burned all. I found Varget works with light bullets in the 7R and 7BR after hodgdon said NO.
Anyway I want hunting loads and Unique will never be my hunting powder.

[Alan in Vermont]

David Bradshaw, holder of the The IHMSA World Revolver Aggregate IHMSA (early1990’s), used 23/4227 in his Freedom Arms Casull .44 Magnum and was pictured beside the 150M turkey swinger with 5 shots averaging not too far from deadcenter.

I know it's off topic but there's a name I haven't seen mentioned in years. Dave first shot silhouettes here in Vermont, from 1976 to about 1980, before he migrated out west. I was good enough to shoot in close competition to him at that time. He was just about as good a person as one could be privileged to know.

[44man]

It is a small case and does well with fast powders. Not the problem. The problem is how a powder acts.
I see many say 4227 is good in the .44 but a few shots is not like 40 to 80 in a row. i would choose 2400 or other powders over 4227. Unique or 231 even. The variations I have seen with 4227"s is crazy.
I do not know what it does in a 38-40, don't have one or want one.

[andym79]

Problem seems to be solved. Accuracy seems to be good, though it needs to be verified with a 10 shot group rather than a 5 shot group at 100.

This load burned very clean compared to H4227, certainly not 5 grains of unburnt kernels in the action. I don't know if it was a bad batch of powder, I no longer care my Winnie will not be getting any more H4227.

Doctor Alliant prescribes a dose of 15 grains of 2400.

[truckjohn]

I use the same powder in a 7.62x39 load... Had the EXACT same problem...

Switch to hotter primers. Moving to Winchester LR primers solved my issues..

When you do - drop the load about 10% and work back up.

Thanks

[andym79]

I use the same powder in a 7.62x39 load... Had the EXACT same problem...

Switch to hotter primers. Moving to Winchester LR primers solved my issues..

When you do - drop the load about 10% and work back up.

Thanks

I will try hotter primers, 2400 works, but I still have 6lbs of this powder in the cupboard and use it in only one other gun.

[243winxb]

http://stevespages.com/401_1_180.html