Cast My First Today (with pictures -- feedback desired)

[jklein_1968]

Ok finally got to it and cast for the first time today. Using a Lee Pro bottom pour pot and a Lee 312-155 mold. I think I got about 110 usable bullets and I guess the rest go into the pot for the next casting session. My mold began to stick a little after about 40 casts. The bullets seem to range in weight from 153 grains to 155 grains. Also the diameter is a little smaller than hoped for at .3105 to .312. Below are a few pictures. If you see any obvious things from the pics I should pay attention to please give the feedback. I dropped the bullets in a bucket of water as the came out of the mold. The obvious errors are the bottom picture. Thank

http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/casting/100_8869.jpg

http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/casting/100_8873.jpg

http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/casting/100_8871.jpg

http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/casting/100_8871a.jpg

http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/casting/100_8877.jpg

[Orygun]

The bottom photo show obvious culls, hard to tell on the others. Maybe hotter temps and a little tin for better fillout.

[trickyasafox]

hmmm me thinks the mold needs more de-greasing.

[jklein_1968]

hmmm me thinks the mold needs more de-greasing.

What would be the indication that the mold needs more de-greasing? I cleaned with alcohol. Could it be the mold release spray by Frankford Arsenal from MidwayUSA?

Thanks

[jklein_1968]

The bottom photo show obvious culls, hard to tell on the others. Maybe hotter temps and a little tin for better fillout.

I used wheel weights -- I could add a little tin to the mix and increase the heat. I was running at 7 on the lee pot which is what the Modern Reloading second edition recommended for the pot setting for WW. Do you think all these should go back in the pot with tin? or should I give them a try?

[montana_charlie]

Not to hurt your feelings, but I would remelt them all so they would get the 'second chance' with the extra tin.

Not to be 'harsh', but the whole batch (generally speaking) just lacks 'crispness'...kinda like your mould was suffering from a hangover during the whole session.
CM

[standles]

If your cleaning with Isopropyl Alcholo it leaves a residue. Try denatured or just some brake cleaner from your auto store.

Steven


PS.
Welcome to the addiction

[yeahbub]

HOLY HANNA!!!!! Our problems are solved! We're gonna be casting boolits from CORN!!! I never thought of that before. A brilliant answer to a weighty (ahem) problem. . . . . .

. . . I'm okay now. Sorry. :)

Actually, jklein, they don't look bad at all for a first time effort. Was that the first time ever for casting anything? I think you did well. I notice some of the boolits in the third photo appear a bit frosted. Nothing wrong with that. I usually cast fast enought that they're frosted all over, which makes them hold LLA a little better. Apparently, your mold already casts a boolit small for the caliber. Once they age harden to their final value, you may be able to work up a load that will bump them up on firing to full groove diameter. This is easier with a softer alloy, like air cooled wheel weights or half lead/half WW, but see how these work out. You have good mold detail and sharp corners, so adding tin doesn't seem called for just yet. With practice, you'll get sharper detail yet. Your mold can be broken in just by using it. As others have noted, your best bet for removing residue is brake cleaner (but use that outside) or CRC Electric Motor Cleamer (from the auto parts store) which is non-flammable and leaves no residue.

Good luck with your efforts.

[DLCTEX]

Brake cleaner from Wally World is cheap. when I get the mold to casting good sharp fillout, they generally stick slightly, leementing would probably cure this, just haven't taken the time. A gentle tap or two will shake them loose (tap on rivot or bolt in handles only). If it takes more than this to shake them loose it's time to leement. DALE

[runfiverun]

clean the mould some and give it another run
warm your mould up some before you start that grey almost frosted color is what
you want to see but they look pretty good.
your weight and size variation is from changing your pot temp by adding metal
as you lower your pot try running about half or so down re-fill let pot re-temp
them flux & go again


runfiverun

[Uncle Grinch]

After you think you moulds are clean ( using alcohol or brake cleaner) wash them again in very hot water and Dawn or Joy dish detergent, scrubbing them with an old toothbrush.

While this is going on, have your pot cranked up to max (filled with your corn lead) and let it melt. Set your mould on top and let it heat up also.

After things are good and hot, start casting boolits and after the first dozen trys, thing should start filling out a lot better. I don't worry too much about frosted boolits, other than maybe slowing down my casting rate.

Good Luck... keep trying.

[jklein_1968]

Thanks guys. I did clean with Isopropyl Alcohol and it probably did leave a film. A friend of mine at work does stain glass windows as a hobby and told me he has about 5 pounds of leftover 50/50 lead / tin solder (no resin core) that I can have. He says the pieces get to short and he burns his fingers and throws them in a bucket. I think that I could use this to add a little extra tin to the next batch.

I will clean the mold really good using a dish detergent and hot water (can't hurt the aluminum), then follow it a shower of brake cleaner.

This is my first casting experience with anything. I read a good bit here and in both the Lyman and Lee reloading manuals on casting before jumping in. I think I'm still going to make newbie mistakes and am glad you guys are here to steer my in the right direction.

[jklein_1968]

Brake cleaner from Wally World is cheap. when I get the mold to casting good sharp fillout, they generally stick slightly, leementing would probably cure this, just haven't taken the time. A gentle tap or two will shake them loose (tap on rivot or bolt in handles only). If it takes more than this to shake them loose it's time to leement. DALE

Ok new term for me, what is leementing?

Thanks

[mroliver77]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=654
Try this page
I think your boolits look pretty good. Go ahead and cull the obvious bad ones, be criticle and shoot the rest. Have fun.
J

[mroliver77]

Oh ya,
Thank you sir for serving our country!
J

[jklein_1968]

Oh ya,
Thank you sir for serving our country!
J


Thank you. I still have the pleasure of working with our young Marines and Sailors and count it a blessing. I thank each and everyone who has served our nation and pray for those who are still standing the watch for us.

[GrizzLeeBear]

... wash them again in very hot water and Dawn or Joy dish detergent, scrubbing them with an old toothbrush.

I have had good luck with this cleaning technique, even without cleaning with brake cleaner, etc. I get the mold hot enough that I can't pick it up, put some dish soap on it an scrub it real well, then rinse in same hot water.
I also smoke the cavities real good with a fireplace lighter (the real long ones). I start out with the pot at 8. When the bullets start to get a little frosty is when the bullets start coming out consistently filled out with crisp edges. Then I turn the pot down to 7 or 7 1/2 and adjust my casting rate to keep them where the are lightly frosted. If the surface of the boolits start to look coarse (to much frost) I slow down to let the mold cool a little more between pours. If I try to keep them coming out shiny I start getting a few wrinkles and poorly filled out bullets. Keeping them right at the bottom edge of frosty (temperature wise) seems to be the key with the Lee aluminum molds.

[montana_charlie]

HOLY HANNA!!!!! Our problems are solved! We're gonna be casting boolits from CORN!!! .
Just don't use the popcorn varieties...

[Marlin Junky]

Your mold cavities and/or sprue plate are contaminated. Metal is not up to temp either. Get a thermometer and run your melt at 750 to 780F. Also, pick up an inexpensive electric hot plate at Wal-Mart to preheat molds on. If your still having problems with mold fill-out using aluminum molds, lightly coat the cavities with the soot from a butane lighter... just the cavities, keep the soot out of the vent lines.

MJ

[trickyasafox]

In my experience, if a mold isn't filling out well its either not clean or not hot. This forum taught me that.

for me, its usually not clean. I boil them and add some detergent (powder and scrub em after with a tooth brush :)

[Adam10mm]

Get a hot plate from WalMart for $20. When you turn on the pot to melt the lead, put the mold on half to high heat on the hot plate.

I crank the pot (20# Lee melter) up all the way and run the temp to 800° (get a thermo-Lyman is good). I let it sit at this temp for 5 minutes then turn the heat down to 5. When the temp hits 675° I start casting. If it drops below 625° I stop and heat it back up.

My mold is either being filled, emptied, or on the hot plate.

You get boolits like this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freakshow10mm/Boolit%20Casting/DSC02750.jpg

[Adam10mm]

If boolits are wrinkled, I'll shoot them as plinkers. For gas check boolits, I'd make sure at least the base is square.

Those boolits in the last pic should be remelted. The rest look like keepers.

Best thing about boolit casting is you get unlimited mulligans.

[Newtire]

I have had my share of new Lee Moulds and they all seemed to start casting good after a good boil in dishsoapy water. Even then, it still took a couple of treatments of brake-kleen and then they just seem to start casting like a champ after a few sessions.

[jklein_1968]

I would like to thank everyone for there great input. I've learned a few new things tonight.

[garandsrus]

jklein_1968,

What are you going to be shooting these out of? If it's a 30 cal, the size is fine. If it's something bigger, they are probably too small as you thought.

Check the size on the next batch and see if it's different...

You wouldn't think that theres much of a learning curve to pouring hot metal into a mold, but there is!

Good luck,
John

[DLCTEX]

Oh yeah, I forgot one very important tip for aluminum molds, get some Bullplate Lube for the sprueplate and alignment pins. It will eliminate galling of the mold and save you a lot of headaches on mold alignment wear. DALE Also the sprue cuts will be cleaner and easier.

[jklein_1968]

I'm shooting out of a Chinese T53 (Mosin Nagant) carbine. Nominally the bores run .311 but I'm sure this one is a bit fatter due to age and use.

[runfiverun]

use the bullplate and follow the directions
this makes lee life soooo much better

[jklein_1968]

use the bullplate and follow the directions
this makes lee life soooo much better


Another new term for me, what is the bullplate?

[2muchstuf]

Scrole to the bottom of this page to Shootin Links , click on Bull Shop.

[GP100man]

+1 for bullshops sprue plate lube!!!!!!!!!
use it sparingly ,itll migrate on ya.
excellent product,price & people to deal with!!!!!!
oh yeah: mite want to experiment with rate of flow to fill mold & pourin on the side of the sprue plate to create a swirl is permitted too!!
i agree with most ,turn up the heat & stop inspectin between each pour!!!!
i use mean green to degrease with & a stiff plastic brush.
i releementted a mold today & now i have em jumpin out when the mold is cracked!!!!!

GP100man:cbpour:

[lead_her_fly]

jklein,
The thing no one has dealt with is the size question you had about your bullets. While pure lead boolits will be heavier from a mold they will also be smaller in diameter. If you remelt with the added tin or lynotype the bullet will get lighter but be bigger in diameter.

If it were me I would be gas checking some of those babys and sending them downrange, FAST! I always have been impatient though!

At any rate, your mold has to be hotter and so does your melt. I have trouble with a Lee TL mold of 45 ACP RN when both get cold. I quench too and get great boolits after about 3 to 5 pours. What I have found that helps also are these two things: increase the flow to the mold so it fills faster and hold the mold as close to the spout as possible. I have even used the spout as a kind of ladle. I mean my mold actually touches it at times.
I use LPS Electroclean, I'm an electrician, to give my mold the final cleaning before use. I live in Northern Indiana and the temperatures are extreme during the winter and very humid. When I am done casting I always spray my steel molds down with WD40 before I put them away. Did you get instructions with the mold or did you get it used? I think what others have been talking about is doing what the manuals says about the flame from a candle and yada yada.

Hang in there you are doing fine. Let us know how they shoot!

[yeahbub]

jklein, I may have a fix for your diameter problem - if you use a Lyman lubrisizer. Mine allows me to set the stop screw under the size die at a height a few thousandths short of the ram touching the top of the sizer retainer nut. When applying the gas check/sizing/lubing, I run the boolit down until it stops and that few thousandths more which slightly shortens it and makes it swell to the sizer diameter. This is known as "bumping" a boolit up and might be a separate operation from sizing/lubing if the boolit is a long one. It's best done the same day they're cast, as they'll still be soft and easy to bump. BTW, I don't know if you shoot an 8x57, but that boolit you've posted photos of is excellent when paper patched to the proper diameter, but that may be another conversation.

lead her fly, have you ever used LPS-3 Corrosion Preventive? I bring it up because you mentioned LPS Electroclean and you wrote you use WD-40 on your iron molds, but when I used that, it dried off and went away in a month or so. The LPS-3 leaves a soft petroleum wax after the carrier evaporates, prevents rust as advertised and is good for a couple of years per application. I keep it in all my barrels/gas systems/chambers/automotive battery terminals, especially muzzleloaders and haven't had any rust since I started using it. A few minutes soak in mineral spirits or a shot of Electroclean/brake cleaner/carb cleaner will remove the LPS-3 and a mold will be ready.

[1Shirt]

On new or oiled molds, I just wipe out the cavs with q-tips, turn up furnace to max, stick the majority of the mold in the hot lead for a couple of minutes and start casting. Takes very little time to start getting frosty ones, and there is usually some smoke from the mold. Usually have burnout of what ever is in the cavs in less than 30 blts, and by this time I have established a rythn, been able to apply bullplate and am ready to start casting for serious. Been doing it that way for many years and seems to work for me with both alum and iron molds. Realize that there will be a number of folks who wouldnt be caught dead doing it my way, but thats what makes a horserace like they say.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[jklein_1968]

lead_her_fly

The mold I used was a brand new Lee mold that I cleaned the cavity with q-tips and alcohol. I think the next time I get to cast I will add some extra tin to the ww lead. I also am going to try and clean the mold really good before I start. I had some good tips given to me. If the mold does not drop the diameter I want then I will try some of the other tips such as leementing the mold.

I had a good time and expected to have a learning process -- would not be any fun otherwise. I am going to LLA lube and fire some of the rounds from my Mosin Nagant. The maybe a hair undersized but we will see how they perform.

[jklein_1968]

Yeahbub,

I have read about bumping and need to get a lubrsizer to attempt that. I was considering the lee sizer for cost reasons. I never thought that as a husband and father I would have an allowance and have to live with in it. :) I thought allowances were for kids only.

I am interested in paper patching but not sure of the pros and cons. As I've mentioned the Mosin Nagant is my target rifle for my introduction to casting. I have a Marlin lever 30/30 with the "micro groove" rifling. I hear that these rifles despise cast bullets.

[38 Super Auto]

One thing I see is that you're using a Lee mold. I have some older Lee 6-cavs and they vent just fine. What I have noticed about the last three Lee molds I have acquired in the last year or so is that they need to be worked on.

I have had fill problems that I was able to completely resolve by gently scribing out the vent lines.

Check out this summary: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=654

I have not found a Lee problem that is not addressed in this very fine summary.

Another thing I have learned is I have to run my Lee molds hotter than steel Lyman molds. I have the same pot that you have and I run the pot at full power. I add ingots on the fly, from a hot plate pre-heat stage, to keep the pot pretty full. I like to keep the flow fairly constant.

I second the Wally World brake cleaner. It is tetrachloroethylene - dry cleaning fluid.

Another suggestion is after you apply the mold release to the cavities, brush off the dried residue off the mold faces. This stuff is good for mold release, but it clogs the very fine vent lines on the Lee molds.

If you keep casting boolits from corn, you are going to put pressure on soybean and wheat prices. Not only that, but meat, egg, and milk prices are going to increase. [smilie=1:

[runfiverun]

if you find those boolits are too small
you can do a search on beagling this will get you a couple thousndths also

[HORNET]

jklein,
Actually, Micro-groove Marlins can do very well with cast boolits. More depends on the design and fit. Do some searching on Ranch Dog's work on Marlins. I believe that he's setting up to order a batch of his .30 cal. design before long.

[jklein_1968]

I took 20 of these out to the range today. Shooting from my Mosin Nagant 91/30 with bore slugged measuring .311. The load was a little light using 5.8 grains of Bullseye. It took me 8 shots or so to find a the center of the target using the elevation adjustment (set on 400 meters shooting from the 50 yard bench). I think a bit hotter will bring the grouping in and make a very comfortable plinking load that my 12 year old daughter can enjoy.


http://klein1.us/guns/images/Firearms/Hex_1925RangeReport/finalgrouping1.jpg

[mroliver77]

So was there any leading in the barrel? Yep you can warm them up some if you want. Using the 5.8 load you should not need the gas check. You mentioned a Lee sizer, you should not need to size these at all. Fire as cast as long as they chamber ok wich they should in the rooskie. Keep us informed on progress.
J

[uncle joe]

[QUOTE=jklein_1968;290109] If you see any obvious things from the pics I should pay attention to please give the feedback.

JK
has nothing at all to do with casting, but if your going to do this outdoors. make sure you have the cord plugged into a GFCI outlet. Water and hot lead aren't the only two things that don't mix well. lectricity will kill.
Love the corn ingots:-D

[MtGun44]

Give 10 gr unique a try, if it isn't accurate go up to 12 or so in 1 gr increments
until it is. This works in a VERY high percentage of all 20th century bottleneck
military cartridges. You are likely to need a larger diameter, as most rifles need
about .003" or more oversized to shoot well - should be able to better 2"
at 50 yds with anything that has a decent bore and sights with some tuning of
bullet diam, lube and powder. Another to try is 16 gr 2400, another load which
is commonly successful in 20th century bottleneck mil cartridges. Both are
very mild loads and should be fine for the little girl.

Bill

[jklein_1968]

Give 10 gr unique a try, if it isn't accurate go up to 12 or so in 1 gr increments
until it is. This works in a VERY high percentage of all 20th century bottleneck
military cartridges. You are likely to need a larger diameter, as most rifles need
about .003" or more oversized to shoot well - should be able to better 2"
at 50 yds with anything that has a decent bore and sights with some tuning of
bullet diam, lube and powder. Another to try is 16 gr 2400, another load which
is commonly successful in 20th century bottleneck mil cartridges. Both are
very mild loads and should be fine for the little girl.

Bill

Thank you very much for the load suggestions. I've got a lot to learn. I am going to try and leement the 312-155 and try to get something a bit fatter. as you mentioned .002 to .003 over is normally the sweet spot. The bore slugs out at .3113 so I'm looking for .313 or .314. Got in on a custom .316 that can be sized down.

Right now I'm trying to make all my rookie mistakes with the 2 molds and seem to be finding them all.

[jklein_1968]

So was there any leading in the barrel? Yep you can warm them up some if you want. Using the 5.8 load you should not need the gas check. You mentioned a Lee sizer, you should not need to size these at all. Fire as cast as long as they chamber ok wich they should in the rooskie. Keep us informed on progress.
J

No leading just a very light load. I know better groups can be had the bore on this one is nice. So I will warm it up and try a few of the loads mentioned in the thread.

[RU shooter]

As MtGun44 stated 10 grs of Unique is a good one and I have used it without a gas check with water dropped WW alloy with that 155 gr your trying and worked very well in my M39. much past 10 grs and you'll probably need a gas check on them. keep at it and keep us posted.