Lyman mag25 arrived today

[LynC2]

My first impression: it seems to be a well-made pot, but only time will tell. It evidently had already been tested at the factory as there was a residual lead smear on the bottom of the pot. The only assembly required was to install the spout shutoff lever and plug it in an outlet. Even I can handle these challenging hi-tech requirements.

I put 10 lbs. of COWW in the pot and fired it up from 46 F. in my garage and set the PID @ 710 F. It took 14 minutes to melt and about another 4 minutes to overshoot to 731 F. It then started its tuning and stabilized at 709-710 F. in 19 minutes total (all confirmed with my Tel-Tru thermometer which agreed within a couple of degrees as closely as I could read). The LH side of the housing containing the PID never heated beyond warm to the touch thanks to the cooling fan they installed inside. Good news, but I’ll see how it performs during the hot summer here.
Overall I like it; however I am not happy with the mold guide arrangement. It works fine, but only with the RCBS, Lyman, Saeco 2 and 4 cavity moulds along with the Lee 2 cavity. The NOE 5, Lee 6, NEI 2, BACO and Boomer moulds are too wide. I'll have to make up a new guide for those. It adjusts for height, but not width with just a couple of fixed guide widths. :?
Images at:
http://s659.photobucket.com/user/LynC2/library/MAG%2025

[jmort]

Looks nice. Hope it works out for you and others.

[dragon813gt]

Well the cooling fan answers the question of how they're keeping the PID cool. Unfortunately that's another part to break. And if you don't catch it, bye bye PID. I guess I'm to pessimistic w/ this pot.

[LynC2]

Well the cooling fan answers the question of how they're keeping the PID cool. Unfortunately that's another part to break. And if you don't catch it, bye bye PID. I guess I'm to pessimistic w/ this pot.

True, but my experience with computer fans say it most likely will last a long time. Besides, even I can hear it running and my hearing is pretty well gone after jet engines and helicopters while in the military plus all the shooting I've done for the last 60+ years.

[shooter93]

Turn the mold guide over? I did that with my older Lyman pot.

[dikman]

I tend to be with dragon on this one. Yes, fans are obviously widely used in electronics to keep things cool(er), but I never came across anything that was operating in such close proximity to the temperatures that a lead pot operates at. Heat is the main killer of bearings - hopefully it uses bearings and not cheap bushings in the fan - and running near such high heat doesn't fill me with confidence. The fact that it took so long to release suggests to me that a few problems were encountered along the way. The electronics is simple enough (and PIDs are pretty reliable, at least the way that we all use them) and melting pots are also pretty basic - I suspect that trying to combine them in this way wasn't as easy as it looks.

It does look nice, though.

[dragon813gt]

So is the fan plastic? I'm going to die from laughing if it is.

[wv109323]

If turning the guide does not work due to mold height I took the guide off and flipped it over. I counter bored it and used a pop rivet to reattach.
The temperature to keep most electronics from premature failure is pretty low. Around 150*F, over 200 and your get into trouble.

[GLL]

Lyn:

Thank you for the report and photos ! Please keep us updated over the next few months.

Lyman proved me wrong. I was very dubious we would ever see this pot actually delivered !

Jerry

[LynC2]

The way the mold guide is made doesn't allow it to be easily be turned over due to the channel type construction and the pivot in the back. An adapter could be made to allow it, but it looks like it would be easier to make something to fit on top of the existing guide. Hum, maybe time for some "red neck" engineering. :idea:

As far as the longevity of the fan, I guess we'll all find out one day. I'm going to pull the cover off to get a better look sometime in the future, but I wanted to try it out before doing that. BTW, I wouldn't put it past the Chinese to use a plastic fan either! :evil:

[dikman]

I'm sure you'll figure something out with the support - I didn't like the ones supplied on either the Lee or the RCBS, and changed them both for a shelf. When you remove the cover don't forget to take some photos, I reckon many of us are itching to see what's inside :smile:.

[bobthenailer]

Make and install a filler plate to fit in the mould guide, I made mine from scrap aluminum, then you will have a larger flat surface for wider moulds. drill a hole in the filler plate below the pot spout for drips.

[LynC2]

I'm sure you'll figure something out with the support - I didn't like the ones supplied on either the Lee or the RCBS, and changed them both for a shelf. When you remove the cover don't forget to take some photos, I reckon many of us are itching to see what's inside :smile:.

When I disassemble it, I will be sure to post some pictures. I have a nice macro lens for my camera that should allow for excellent detailed close-ups.


Make and install a filler plate to fit in the mould guide, I made mine from scrap aluminum, then you will have a larger flat surface for wider moulds. drill a hole in the filler plate below the pot spout for drips.

That is what I was planning to do and that's a good idea on the drip hole (but hopefully it isn't needed). I have a few nice usable pieces of Al that I acquired from when I worked at Intel that they scrapped that should work well.

[LynC2]

OK I added a couple of shots of inside the PID area and yes it does have a cheap plastic fan inside it. It looks like one found on some PC components. I ordered another larger fan to hang on the LH side on the louvered area. I figure this is cheap insurance and should take care of it in advance.

115V AC Cooltron Low Speed Fan with Power Plug and Metal GuardCase Size: 80 x 80 x 38 mm ( 3.2 x 3.2 x 1.5 in )
Airflow: 23 CFM | Noise: 28 dBA | Speed: 2000 RPM | Power: 4 W | Bearings: Dual Ball

[Lars-K]

Looking on the pic's it seems like there is a transformer on the "addon card". My bet is there is 12V DC supply. And it's due to that the fan is 12V DC. Can be since they have both a 110V and 220V version. The board is etched with 220V. A closeup of the trafo and the board will tell.
Is there a SSR as well, or has the PID a relay built in?

[dikman]

Thanks for posting the photos Lyn. I can see a possible problem, though. The fan is fine - as long as it's running. What happens at the end of a session when you turn the power off? If the fan stops, the heat inside will quickly build up from the residual heat in the pot and as it takes a long time for that pot of lead to cool down those components on the PC board would be soaking in temperatures well above their probable ratings. Likewise with your extra fan. Mounting it on the vents is a good idea, but once it stops it will heat up very quickly from the heat in the pot and will soon cook the bearings.

The only answer that I can see is to drain the pot completely before turning it off so it will cool off quickly.

Not trying to be negative here, but I tend to look for flaws in things. By the way, where is the SSR mounted? I didn't see it in the photos. Edit: I just had another look, is it that white block mounted at the back of the pc board? If it is, no heat sinking?

[dragon813gt]

You don't necessarily need a SSR. The wattage is low enough that the PID internal relay can handle the load. Problem is that when that relay fails you are replacing the entire PID. There is a transformer in there. The white block looks to be a heat sink, I think. Not sure why you would need a control board in there. Unless they're using it to send power to everything from one source. But a terminal block could accomplish the same thing. It looks more complicated then it needs to be IMO. I hope it works out for you but I could nitpick it to death. And let me guess, no wiring diagram for the control section?

[Beagle333]

The fan is fine - as long as it's running. What happens at the end of a session when you turn the power off?

That was my first question too. Hmmm.....

[HATCH]

the fan could be on a time delay relay or could even be on a temp controlled switch.
It wouldn't be hard to put in a snap disc switch

like something from here -> http://www.grainger.com/category/ecatalog/N-1z0dmmu

[dragon813gt]

the fan could be on a time delay relay or could even be on a temp controlled switch.
It wouldn't be hard to put in a snap disc switch

More complicated, relative, and another failure point. I replace snap discs all the time at work. Unit turned on, then fan should be on. Having it run after power to PID is shut off would be a good thing. Of course this doesn't help if you unplug the unit.

[LynC2]

Many excellent points have been put forward and I agree there are some problem areas that could develop. The fan I am installing is a stand alone 120V that will be plugged into an external power source. I never leave my casting pot alone until it has cooled off enough to solidify anyway and the external fan should accelerate the cool down also. I can also think of a lot of things that they could have done better; however it does seem to be a good pot at the price point. We will all just have to wait and see how it turns out. Maybe good or maybe not! If worse comes to worse I can re-do the whole thing; electronics and mechanical devices don't faze me in the least after working on them for decades.

[skeettx]

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu312/LynC2/MAG%2025/2014-12-09LYMANMAG25007_zps3eec5bd3.jpg (http://s659.photobucket.com/user/LynC2/media/MAG%2025/2014-12-09LYMANMAG25007_zps3eec5bd3.jpg.html)

[Beagle333]

Well, congrats on your new pot anyway. I'll be watching to see how it works out. It looks pretty nice and neat. I see another pot of some sort in my future sometime next year..... mebbe one of these? :grin:
Happy Casting!

[dragon813gt]

It it was a Mag40 I would buy one and rewire it to make it simple. It's not like you get any warranty support from Lyman. And I want a larger pot.

[dikman]

This gets more and more intriguing :smile:. You're right about the white block, when I looked really close it looks like a heatsink (wonder what it's heatsinking?). The transformer looks like it gets its power from the PC board, so mains power must be running along a couple of copper tracks, from one end to the other. The black block on the right looks like a relay? Considering it's next to the incoming mains, and the feed to the pot disappears from the back of the block, it makes sense that it does run a relay, rather than an SSR. Nor do I see an on/off switch? The IC on the board could be a timer, but then how do you tell it to switch off the power to the pot but keep the fan running? If it's not a timer, I wonder what it does?

Construction-wise, it doesn't look too bad, and at least they used screws instead of bloody pop rivets!!!

Lyn, does the operators manual (?) give any help on how it operates?

A couple of hours later, and I just had a thought (!) - it would be nice to have some sort of thermometer in that cavity with the electronics, that would tell us once and for all if there's likely to be a heat problem.

[BigDanS]

Congrats on the new pot. One question you have not answered, how did it pour and perform? Have you cast anything and how did they come out? Did you use the mould pre heater? Were your bullets filled out well? Any production issues?

I own nothing yet. I just bought a smelting setup and now I need a pot and moulds... This is on the top of my list.

D

[LynC2]

This gets more and more intriguing :smile:. You're right about the white block, when I looked really close it looks like a heatsink (wonder what it's heatsinking?). The transformer looks like it gets its power from the PC board, so mains power must be running along a couple of copper tracks, from one end to the other. The black block on the right looks like a relay? Considering it's next to the incoming mains, and the feed to the pot disappears from the back of the block, it makes sense that it does run a relay, rather than an SSR. Nor do I see an on/off switch? The IC on the board could be a timer, but then how do you tell it to switch off the power to the pot but keep the fan running? If it's not a timer, I wonder what it does?
Construction-wise, it doesn't look too bad, and at least they used screws instead of bloody pop rivets!!!
Lyn, does the operators manual (?) give any help on how it operates?

A couple of hours later, and I just had a thought (!) - it would be nice to have some sort of thermometer in that cavity with the electronics, that would tell us once and for all if there's likely to be a heat problem.

1) Yes, the white block is a heat sink. It looks like a chip attached to the bottom, but I didn't remove the board to check it out.
2) The black box on the right is a fuse box.
3) No on/off switch. Plug it in for power or unplug it.
4) Operators manual, yes there is one if one wishes to call it that. Just bare operating essentials, no schematic. :sad:
It does utilize a 110V, 250mA transformer for the fan and ? Without pulling the board and checking it, I can't say how they have it laid out. Personally I would have just used a 110V fan, a SSR with the PID and forgot about the transformer, board and all of the other Cr*p. Well, a good example of Chinese engineering I guess.
5) I haven't used it for casting yet, but will report on it's performance in the future. I only ran up the temp to the desired point and ran a bit through the nozzle to check for flow and shut off which was fine.
6) I will also stick one of my AC thermometers inside the cabinet to monitor the temps run during normal operation.
7) Unless there are some major issues, at this time I am happy with my purchase at this price point. I'll give more feedback in a few days, meanwhile I have a cast bullet match to shoot tomorrow with Nobade (if the weather permits), a barrel to chamber and crown, a stock to bed and Christmas decorations to put up (or I might be sleeping with the dogs! :shock: ).

[dikman]

That means it must be using a relay inside the PID to switch the mains feed to the pot. From a manufacturing point-of-view it makes sense as it keeps parts to a minimum. Probably not the best from a longevity viewpoint, but then they wouldn't care about that as long as it outlasts the warranty period. I must admit I'm at a complete loss to understand why it has a PC board with a couple of IC's and a transistor on it (although the device with the heatsink could be a 12v regulator for the fan, I guess).

On the bright side, you've got a nice looking unit, and if the little PC board and its electronics decide to go belly up it would be pretty easy to rip it out and rewire it to a more conventional configuration, like you said. And it would cost very little to do that.

[sw282]

l saw this review on the Midway site,,

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/267665/lyman-mag-25-digital-melting-furnace-115-volt


not good.. not good

[LynC2]

l saw this review on the Midway site,,

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/267665/lyman-mag-25-digital-melting-furnace-115-volt



not good.. not good

His only complaint was the mold guide wouldn't accommodate some molds, just like I reported in my first post. A minor annoyance to be sure, but not difficult to fix. Yes it would have been better if the guide width were adjustable (it does adjust for vertical and angle) and I would have preferred a different PID relay setup along with a 110V fan. Given enough time and numbers in the field we should have a better idea of its performance and longevity.

[Beagle333]

'Still lookin' good... I don't own any 6-cav Lee's or 4 cav Saeco's. :popcorn:

[georgerkahn]

I'm happy for you to have gotten this tool! I had one on order/back-order for way too long at Buffalo Arms (best price!) until I got tired of waiting, and cancelled the order. (Bought an RCBS Pro-melt in its place (also from Buffalo)). I wish you the best with it; and, share with others my hopes you will post several "reviews" down the road as you use it. From the photos posted here above, it sure appears to be a good looking pot!
BEST!
georgerkahn

[dragon813gt]

l saw this review on the Midway site,,

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/267665/lyman-mag-25-digital-melting-furnace-115-volt


not good.. not good

While I agree that they should not advertise it as Universal if it's not adjustable in some fashion. His overall complaint that he has to ship it back is weak. He can't make a mold guide? I attempted to use the one on the Lee 4-20 once. When it didn't work w/ Cramer molds I didn't write a review and complain I had to ship it back. I cut pieces of plywood to make a fully supported ramp for the molds to sit on. Took longer to set the saw up then it did to cut the pieces. The advertisement of universal is wrong but make it work.

[Love Life]

While I agree that they should not advertise it as Universal if it's not adjustable in some fashion. His overall complaint that he has to ship it back is weak. He can't make a mold guide? I attempted to use the one on the Lee 4-20 once. When it didn't work w/ Cramer molds I didn't write a review and complain I had to ship it back. I cut pieces of plywood to make a fully supported ramp for the molds to sit on. Took longer to set the saw up then it did to cut the pieces. The advertisement of universal is wrong but make it work.

The world is awash with people of low intelligence.

[Digger]

The world is awash with people of low intelligence.

Yeah .... and the scary part is they are voting .
Sorry ... impulsive . . nothing to do with this thread...[smilie=b:

[Fishman]

It appears to be the same mould guide that is on my older Lyman pot. I just move it out of the way but it could be modded pretty easy if one wanted to use it.

[GLL]

The poor mold guide is a non-issue since most mold guides do not work especially well ! I would guess we all modify the guides to fit our own needs anyway.

I look forward to hearing from LynC2 about casting operation and how the PID behaves!

Jerry

[dikman]

Yeah, I agree about that review. If that's all he's got to complain about......

[LynC2]

OK, a little update on the pots performance. I dropped another 10 lbs. of COWW in the pot (20 total), fired it up and set the temp for 710 F. I used my Ideal 311466 4 cavity mold as the test guinea pig. I ran through about 10 or 11 lbs of lead before I decided to shut it down. It was on for over an hour before I quit casting and it maintained +_3 degrees throughout the casting session. The exhaust temp out of the fan never ran over 80 F during the entire operation as verified by a thermometer. When I shut it down I inserted the thermometer into the electronics chamber through the fan and the temp ran up to 122 F before dropping after about 20 minutes when the lead started to solidify. This was done with an ambient of 60 F in the garage I was in for casting. No doubt in the summer time it would run higher.
The shut off valve worked well with no drips except for an occasional drop from the spout that was left hanging after I shut it off.
The guide worked well with the Lyman 4 cavity and my only complaint was about adjusting the guide stop. I had to use a pair of long nose vise grip type pliers to get enough leverage on it to get it tightened. Torx or allen head screws would have been easier to torque it down.
Overall I am still happy with it, but only time will tell.

[Beagle333]

So the fan doesn't keep running after the pot is turned off. Perhaps they insulated the wall between the pot and the electronics? Great report!!!

[LynC2]

So the fan doesn't keep running after the pot is turned off. Perhaps they insulated the wall between the pot and the electronics? Great report!!!

No there is no power switch, only the power plug. Also there is no insulation on the bulkhead between the pot and electronics which I would have expected. The pot does have an insulation shield around it and about an inch of air space between it and the electronics section. It is also louvered to help dissipate the heat.
Also, I forgot to add that I used the mold pre-heater on the top of the pot. It did warm up the mold, but a hot plate definitely is faster. Edited to add: the good news is the mold pre-warmer is wide enough for all the molds I have including the Lyman 4 cavity, Lee 6 C, MP, BACO and etc. Might be something out there that won't fit, but I don't have it.

[Blanco]

If you figure what most on here have spent to modify their Lee 4/20 pots, then have a look at the Lyman, it's not such a bad deal.
No doubt the Dexters on here will have mods lined up in no time at all for the new Lyman. I want one that uses artificial intelligence that can detect and predict when I am going to do some casting and have the molds warmed up and the lead ready to pour when I get there...:bigsmyl2:

And do you really believe that any product of this type would fill all needs, out of the box? This is the first one I have heard of and you guys are already modifying electronics and guides and relays.... Tool Time Tim Taylor

[dragon813gt]

Well most people modify the guides on their pots because they are always lacking. And no one has modified the pot electronics in anyway. We were speculating on what the weaknesses are, that's all. Time will tell if we're right or wrong. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong.

[dikman]

And no one has modified the pot electronics in anyway.

Mainly because there aren't any in the other pots! :lol: I don't count a mechanical thermostat as "electronic".

I'd still love to know what the IC on the PC board is for :confused:.

Does look nice though......

[LynC2]

Just a short update for those concerned about the electronics overheating upon shutdown on the Mag 25. I fired up the pot and melted the 10 or so lbs. that were in the pot. Then I lowered the PID setting to 300 F. The fan continued to run until I unplugged it after the melt solidified and cooled off. I didn't time it or check the temp in the electronics area since that will vary and be dependent upon the users ambient, melt setting and how low they want it to be until they unplug it. Besides I was kind of busy running my lathe doing a chamber job. [smilie=f:

[dragon813gt]

That's a smart way to go about it. A lot less to worry about w/ the fan staying on.

[dikman]

Still seems a bit of unnecessary messing around. I know if I had one I couldn't leave it like that. I reckon it would be pretty simple to add a 3-position on/off switch - off, power to everything, power off to pot element only. The last position would let it cool while leaving the fan running.

Plus, of course, replace the mold support with a decent shelf, modify the PID to use an SSR, perhaps use a better fan......and who knows what else? :lol:

[Beagle333]

.... I know if I had one I couldn't leave it like that. I reckon it would be pretty simple to add a 3-position on/off switch - off, power to everything, power off to pot element only. The last position would let it cool while leaving the fan running.
Plus, of course, replace the mold support with a decent shelf, modify the PID to use an SSR, perhaps use a better fan......and who knows what else?

Lights. Gotta add lights. Colored ones... blinking ones... maybe even a strobe. ;)

[dikman]

NOW we're talking! :lol:

[Nobade]

A disco ball!

-Nobade

[Blanco]

Laser light show with a fog generator

[pjames32]

I'm hoping this pot works out. I want (not need) another pot. My old Lyman 61 keeps on working, but I'd like to have a second pot so I could dedicate 1 to my pistol bullet mix and 1 for 20-1. I wish I had another Lyman 61!
PJ

[GLL]

Is LynC2 the only member who has one of these new pots ?

Jerry

[Master_Mechanic]

Is LynC2 the only member who has one of these new pots ?

Jerry
I have one aswell

[Smoke4320]

Master Mechanic
Have you used yours yet.. What is you experience with it so far ?
Thanks