PDA

View Full Version : .223 primer pockets, swaged or cut?



bigjake
12-06-2014, 07:25 PM
When reloading LC or FC .223 brass, you have to get rid of the primer pocket crimp. What do you prefer? Cutting it out with a counter sink type bit or a swagger

I use a hornady cutter. I chuck the brass in my little lathe, put the cutter in the tailstock chuck and send the tool quickly in and out. I push it in and pull it out by hand as fast as i can. I leave the tailstock loose on the lathe bed so it self centers. This way too much doesnt get cut out. The primers go in pretty stiff.

waltherboy4040
12-06-2014, 08:05 PM
I'm using a lyman cutter but would like to try the rcbs cutter on a drill. The Dillon swager looks good tho but pricey compared to the other options.

MUSTANG
12-06-2014, 08:22 PM
"Go Blue" Dillion primer swage for large number of cases.

If it's only couple of range pick ups, I'll swage the primer pocket with the RCBS primer Pocket Swage Die.

Outpost75
12-06-2014, 08:26 PM
The swager work-hardens the brass around the pocket, which helps keep it tight. It is also less likely to enlarge the primer pocket than reaming. I use the Dillon.

dragonrider
12-06-2014, 08:35 PM
I use the Dillion or the RCBS swage, they make perfect pockets, can't see cutting it, it is too easy to remove too much.

Bonz
12-06-2014, 08:38 PM
they actually use the brass from around the primer hole to create the crimp. I use a RCBS primer pocket swage tool to move the brass back to where it belongs

David2011
12-06-2014, 08:56 PM
I've tried just about every method of removing the primer crimp. I have a Dillon Super Swage, the RCBS kit, countersinks, Lyman and Hornady cutting reamers. The Dillon is good and will swage hundreds/thousands without tiring you too much. It can be semi-automated; videos are available on YouTube. I made a glass fiber reinforced saddle for mine to help center 5.56 cartridges and reduce the number of damaged primer pockets. PM if interested. IMO the Lyman cutter is the least desirable of the common methods. The Hornady can be run with a drill or Lyman case prep station. It fully cuts the crimp in 3 revolutions and is a machine shop quality cutting tool. Fingers can get pretty tired if doing a lot of cartridges at once but the cutter is about $9. Grippy gloves help a lot but only if using a portable drill. No gloves around a drill press, lathe or anything with a lot of mass and power. It does not have cutting edge on the end and is therefore incapable of over-cutting the pocket unlike a countersink. Should you go to a countersink, they will do OK but are heavily dependent on your touch and feel. Use a GOOD countersink like a Hanson; not something from a "bargain" table or department store.

If you're using a Dillon press, try CCI primers They seem to feed more smoothly than some brands in Dillon presses. The 1911 gunsmith Jimmy Mitchell enlightened me on that and I found him to be 100% correct.

David

Big Boomer
12-06-2014, 09:32 PM
I have both the cutter system (Forster) and the swaging system (RCBS). The typical cutter actually cuts too much of the primer pocket mouth and the side of the primer pocket away and the pocket can loosen more easily because the primer is insufficiently supported at the sides as intended. Too, if you fail to use the cutter just right, it still leaves a tiny ring at the very bottom of the area cut away from the swaged brass and primers tend to hang on that tiny rim. I don't use the cutter any longer because I reload my brass until they begin to fail. Big Boomer

Iowa Fox
12-06-2014, 09:45 PM
I only swage. Pockets stay tighter longer.

jhalcott
12-06-2014, 10:14 PM
I use the chamfer/deburring tool chucked in a battery powered drill. Just a touch to the pocket and your done! I pick up .223/5.56 and .308/7.62 empties all the time at the range so IF I get too deep, it's no great loss.

runfiverun
12-06-2014, 10:48 PM
Dillon swager.
plink, tink, done.

Bzcraig
12-06-2014, 10:56 PM
Dillon on my bench, tried reaming but I wasn't consistent enough and my fingers got a heck of a work out.

lightman
12-07-2014, 11:24 AM
I have dealt with the crimp about every way that there is. I have a RCBS swager, a Dillon swager, used a deburring tool, a 45 degree countersink, a Lyman reamer and now a Wilson reamer. They all work, but I like the Wilson reamer the best.

If I have thousands to do, I set the Dillon up. The RCBS works but it is a pretty good workout. All crimps are not equal, some swage better than others. I really prefer to cut it out rather than to move it to another place, which sometimes causes other problems.

All in all, I try to avoid crimped cases. They mostly get used in my AR and H&K where the loss factor is higher.

lesharris
12-07-2014, 11:57 AM
The Dillion swager makes quick work of a boring chore. It also is pretty uniform from one case to another. Les.

GRUMPA
12-07-2014, 12:25 PM
I always swage the primer pockets with the Dillon Super swager. I've got it down to the point I can do 500pcs in 20min once I get the rhythm down. What's nice about that is once the rod is adjusted to your particular tastes, they're pretty much the same from the first to the last piece..

williamwaco
12-07-2014, 12:29 PM
I am a old Scottish tight wad.

I use a 3/8 inch drill bit.

Very easy. Very quick. Very effective, and very economical.

GabbyM
12-07-2014, 01:09 PM
As lightman says. All crimps are not equal.
Have a lucky batch of LC 94 brass here that all I need do is run a case neck chamfer tool in the pocket and they are good. Don't even have to cut deep. Other LC brass I chamfer them then use an RCBS swag tool then a Sinclair carbide uniformer and a Hornady pocket chamfer tool. Then they are still hard to seat a primer.

I always use a flash hole deburr tool (#1 C-Drill) before de capping. This nearly eliminated broken de cap pins. Which I found usually broke from a flash hole burr inside the case deflecting the pin over to the case head or being pushed into flash hole along with pin to jam it up. I ground most of the point off the #1 C-Drill so I could get a little chamfer with primer still in. Also always use a Sinclair carbide primer pocket uniformer to set depth for the primer pockets.

Just recently I've adopted a plan to anneal all my mil surplus case necks. After pulling out a 30 caliber ammo can full of 5.56mm with shelf life issue. I'd loaded them up in 1984. Cases had been loaded a few times which certainly made it worse. But about one in five case necks had split while in storage. Then of the rest about one in three would split upon firing. I stopped shooting it and will just pull the bullets. Found out this is age hardening and will happen. I've also found that annealing case necks noticeably improves accuracy. This military stuff takes a lot of sizing to bring it back down to spec. Some a lot more than others. Work hardening the brass first time around IMHO. So annealing uniforms the case neck tension. When I loaded that batch up in 1984 I never imagined it would sit on a shelf for thirty years. To anneal I just set a propane torch on my bench. With a coffee can with water under the flame. Hold the case between fingers and twist roll three times slowly then drop. Necks just start to color about the time case head gets hot to hold. No issue with softening heads as you can't hold on to them long enough for that. Consistent timing of each case keeps uniform results. I size them with no neck expander button installed then set a neck expander die in station one of my Dillon 550 When loading. Not sure if that's the best way. Just seams the little bit of brass work after annealing would help uniform tension. I trim length before annealing since they cut much easier when brittle.

That was pretty windy but I hope that helps someone.

snuffy
12-07-2014, 02:19 PM
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/804809/hornady-primer-pocket-reamer-package?cm_vc=ProductFinding

^^^ That's the one I use. It's quick, takes only the crimp, can be mounted in the RCBS case prep machine,(just the cutter head is 8/32 thread).

My case prep for .223 LC crimped brass, is to FL resize, trim to length using the lee case trimmer/spinner, then a wipe with a rag to remove lube while it's spinning. Those then go to the RCBS case prep to chamfer and have the primer crimp removed.

Any kind of drill, chamfer tool, or countersink can and will remove too much brass from the edge of the pocket. It's darn near impossible to accurately and repeatedly remove the same amount in a hand held scenario. OR keep it exactly lined up straight.

I tried the RCBS swager, it would NOT remove enough of the crimp to allow a new primer to be inserted. The "nub" was just plain too small to push the crimp back where the brass came from to start with. I called RCBS about it, they sent me another one, dimensioned the same, it still didn't work! SOOOO it sits on a shelf, one more failed reloading tool!:evil:

zuke
12-07-2014, 03:18 PM
Counter sink in a drill press

wcp4570
12-07-2014, 04:20 PM
I've used chamfering tool and RCBS swaging tool and both are effective but slow. I currently have a Dillon 1050 on my bench that is on loan to me for the time being and it has the swaging station built in and it works like a dream. I will really miss this press when it has to go back to the owner, but for right now, I'm a happy camper.

wcp

Geezer in NH
12-07-2014, 08:39 PM
Swage for longer brass life IMHO. Found that out with 1950's 45 acp brass.

nighthunter
12-07-2014, 10:04 PM
One more vote for the Dillon primer pocket swager. You can do a lot of cases in a relatively short period of time.

Nighthunter

fredj338
12-07-2014, 10:34 PM
RCBS bench swager or Hornady reamer, both work fine.

dudel
12-08-2014, 09:19 AM
I prefer to swage than remove metal. I found a longer life if I swaged (primer pockets stayed tighter longer). I use the RCBS swager die set. Not as expensive as other options; but it does a good job. The RCBS rod can bend if you don't set it up correctly; but there are replacement rods on ebay that have a smaller diameter that makes it easier on .223 brass. Of course RCBS will likely send you a replacement rod at not charge. They are good folks.

I have used a hand powered countersink, when time was short; but results were inconsistent. Very easy to remove too much metal from a pocket, unless you have some kind of jig. I think the RDBS and Hornady pocket prep tools have a shoulder which keeps you from removing too much metal.

Fortunately, crimps only have to be fixed once. So to me, cutting meant less brass life, and more crimp fixing. Swaging gave me longer life and less fixing.

In the end, it was easier to get once fired non military brass. No crimp to deal with. I like the Federal brass.

DR Owl Creek
12-08-2014, 01:08 PM
I have the RCBS primer pocket swager. It worked reasonably well with most 5.56 and 7.62 brass military brass, but not with some that was particularly hard. I also then had a problem when trying to seat certain brands of primers, especially Winchester. Because of this, I stopped using it.

After that, I got the primer pocket cutter attachment for my Lyman Universal case trimmer, which I use with an 18 volt cordless drill. With the cutter in the Universal trimmer, I set the cutting depth with the bushing type stops on the cutter shaft, and all the primer pockets are cut to exactly the same depth every time. I also use a small leather pad to hold the cases to keep them from spinning between my fingers. Its probably not the fastest method, but I'm most concerned with precision. It works for me.


Dave

cs86
12-08-2014, 01:21 PM
The Dillon swager is amazing. I had 3k 9mm to do and was able to swage a case every 1-2 sec. I figured I was doing about 500 every 15min. very easy on the hands and very effortless. I haven't gotten into my .223 cases except a few to get it set up, and noticed the case doesn't line up to the pocket as easy as the 9mm did, but will still be far easier then cutting and easier on the fingers.

JASON4X4
12-08-2014, 01:25 PM
I use the Dillon super swage and couldn't imagine using anything else. It is so fast and easy to use my 4 year old did about 100 before he got bored.

gnostic
12-15-2014, 07:42 PM
I've used and loved the Dillon for years. I just changed over, to a Small Base, RCBS AR15 size die. And now, it seems like the pocket is too small. I de primed and swagged before sizing.

Geezer in NH
12-16-2014, 07:25 PM
Swage them in the Dillon, Small base dies do not swage the primer pocket. HUH???

paul h
12-16-2014, 07:51 PM
I guess I'm the odd man out, as I use both. I use the RCBS swager to get the remove the crimp, and use a countersink on the drill press to create a small chamfer to make it easier to get the primer started. I've crumpled a primer or two in a swaged pocket when it didn't get started in just right, but haven't had any problems since added a slight chamfer.

trixter
12-18-2014, 04:59 PM
In the past, I have used the RCBS swage kit for getting rid of the primer crimp, it has been OK, but still some of the primers went in a little hard. While looking at the RCBS catalog, I came across a primer pocket cutter for my RCBS Trim Mate. I ordered and got it installed it and it works great, but some of the primers were still were hard to seat, so right after I cut the military crimp out, then I just move it right to the inside bevel cutter tool and cut a little of the edge off (bevel it a little), Now my primers start very nicely and and I am very happy. Finding the right tool makes the job go so much easier.

BDJ
12-18-2014, 05:47 PM
CH4D priming and swage kit. Works well for me.

https://www.ch4d.com/products/equipment/priming-tools/psk

Lloyd Smale
12-19-2014, 08:51 AM
yup best way ive found by far
Dillon swager.
plink, tink, done.

Shiloh
12-19-2014, 10:47 AM
A #23 round stone setting bur is about 5.4 mm. A SR primer pocket is about 4.45 mm +or-.
I have these things around because of the stone setting I sometimes do.

I put this in the primer pocket and just take the very tiny bite off the ledge. NO MORE!!
One can grab about 20 at a time and do them in less than a minute. Swaging is probably the way to go, but I don't have a swage and do have setting burs. I have taken dull burrs about a 5mm #20, and burnish the crimp away. I can raise e some metal though.

Shiloh

Three44s
12-19-2014, 11:16 AM
I guess I'm the odd man out, as I use both. I use the RCBS swager to get the remove the crimp, and use a countersink on the drill press to create a small chamfer to make it easier to get the primer started. I've crumpled a primer or two in a swaged pocket when it didn't get started in just right, but haven't had any problems since added a slight chamfer.


Less "odd" by one ........... I do the same!

I swage with the RCBS old school unit ......... and then bevel the mouth with two different case mouth debur units.

If I just use the RCBS swager ........ I still have a sharp edge that buggers up new primers I am trying to seat. So I use a RCBS and then a Lyman VLD case mouth chamfering tools.

Easy on the cutting though ...... you can cut it off all you want but it's tough to grow it back on. .......... and that's why I swage first. Save that brass in a most critical area.

GabbyM mentioned inside flash hole deburring ........ I do ALL my metalics with that treatment.

Three 44s

Sticky
12-19-2014, 03:09 PM
Less "odd" by one ........... I do the same!

I swage with the RCBS old school unit ......... and then bevel the mouth with two different case mouth debur units.

If I just use the RCBS swager ........ I still have a sharp edge that buggers up new primers I am trying to seat. So I use a RCBS and then a Lyman VLD case mouth chamfering tools.

Easy on the cutting though ...... you can cut it off all you want but it's tough to grow it back on. .......... and that's why I swage first. Save that brass in a most critical area.

GabbyM mentioned inside flash hole deburring ........ I do ALL my metalics with that treatment.

Three 44s
Less odd by two.. I use an RCBS swager on my press and then a quick pass with a countersink in my cordless drill if needed to break the edge a little. Thank goodness you only have to remove crimps once.. think I have enough brass for a good while now. I also deburr the inside flash holes on all newly obtained brass, rifle and pistol.