How hot do you want your lead?

[Clinton]

I've been complaining about a Lee mold I have that casts too small. Its a C309-170. The nose of the bullet is usually around .299-.300 and the driving bands barely make .308. After skimming different threads here I believe I may have my lead too cold. I have a Lyman lead thermometer and I usually keep the temp right about in the middle of where it says "wheel weights" at 650-675 degrees. Is this too cold? Is this what's causing my molds to drop bullets too small?

[geargnasher]

What's your alloy? That determines what general range your alloy temperature should be in, and tune to the top or bottom of that range and adjust casting pace for optimum mould temperature to manipulate final size.

WW usually cast the fattest at around 725F with the mould cool enough to drop shiny bullets. I've never been able to get good fillout from a Lee mould with it cool enough to cast WW shiny, though, usually have to run it faster and into the "light frost" stage, which takes off a couple of ten-thousandths from the final diameter. A tiny bit of tin, half to one percent, can make a big difference in as-cast size.

Gear

[Clinton]

It's straight COWW. I suppose I should turn up the heat and add some tin. Whats the best source of tin to add to the mix?

[geargnasher]

Lead-free, solid-core plumber's solder is a good source of tin if you look for it locally. Don't overdo it. I'd shoot for for 725F and see how it goes.

Gear

[Clinton]

Ok will do thanks.

[Beagle333]

Definitely warm it up a little. I leave my PID on 730° for my rifle boolits. 8-)

[Clinton]

Yeah I guess I should have thought of this earlier. I guess the temp range for wheel weights on the lyman thermometer is a bit misleading.

[RED333]

Yeah I guess I should have thought of this earlier. I guess the temp range for wheel weights on the lyman thermometer is a bit misleading.
Yep, the temps shown on the gauge face are for the temp the alloy melts at.
Give you an idea of what alloy you have, not for casting temp.

[Yodogsandman]

I cast up a bunch of Lee 309-170F's two weeks ago. I used 9 3/4lb COWW and 1/4lb of 50/50 lead/tin plumbers bar solder. Ran my casting pot at 725F (PID). My boolits were just shy of .309" and I sized and gas checked them with a .309" sizing die. I always wait at least 3 weeks to shoot air cooled boolits and have not shot any of these, yet. Other batches have shot fine in my 30-30.

Clinton, have you shot any of those, yet?

[Clinton]

Yeah I couldn't get them to hit worth a damn. But they were undersized and I knew that.

[Clinton]

So any solder that says "lead free" is what I want? I know nothing about solder.

[prs]

Clinton, the solder package will tell you the composition, but it will be essentially "pure" tin. It is expensive. Search for threads here about seeking pewter at yard sales and such too.

prs

[John Boy]

Regardless of the alloy be cast with:
* Warm the mold
* Heat the pot melt to the temperature so with a 5 second pour into the mold, the sprue puddle frosts in 5 seconds. Hold the pot melt at that temperature
All molds are like women - they're different and require a specific temperature for the 5 second frost

[44man]

Gear has it, just the right temps are best for fill out. Too hot will make boolits smaller. Once you see frost, they are smaller.
I run about 730* to 750* and pre heat my mold to 500*.
If that boolit is for a Marlin 30-30, it is still too small. I made my molds to cast a .311" drive and a .301" bore ride.

[Foto Joe]

If you're gonna use solder try to avoid blends with silver or copper. You're pretty much looking for 97/3 which would be 97% tin and 3% antimony I "think". It's been a while since I've used solder since adding tin that way will cost you around $40 per pound but it's a good way to get to know the attributes of adding Sn.

A wise sage on this forum once told me, "You can cast good boolits with straight COWW's but add 2% tin to the mix and you can cast GREAT boolits."

I think that your size problem has more to do with the lack of tin in the alloy than it does the Lee mold.

[runfiverun]

Regardless of the alloy be cast with:
* Warm the mold
* Heat the pot melt to the temperature so with a 5 second pour into the mold, the sprue puddle frosts in 5 seconds. Hold the pot melt at that temperature
All molds are like women - they're different and require a specific temperature for the 5 second frost

5 second frost..... phhhht you obviously don't know my wife.. more like 2..

I use a 5 count after filling too, and sometimes the frost hasn't come yet when I open the mold.
each mold being just a bit different is right on though, once you figure one out,,,, write it down in a note-book.

[44man]

Naww, I have a drawer full of molds, hundreds and all work the same. I have no notebook. It is feel as you cast. It is experience, nothing measured by time. It is like Star Wars, feel the dark side!
Getting it right is instant. It is the flow of nature.
Best to buy pure tin or find some old 50-50 body solder. Solder is way too costly. I used to get 1# bars of tin for $4 but it has gone up. Midway usually has it even though I hate to buy from them.
Go online and you can find it much cheaper.

[rsrocket1]

Did you try beagling the mold as was suggested earlier? There is a Hobby Lobby in Bilox (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hobby+Lobby/@30.5067343,-88.8954895,11z/data=!4m5!1m2!2m1!1shobby+lobby!3m1!1s0x0000000000 000000:0x177f056f3ddd40b4)i that should have the copper tape you need for about $7 (http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/1/4-copper-foiling-tape-182162/). You get 36 yards and you need 2 sections of about 2" on either side of the mold. It's 1.25 mils thick and you can stack layers if you need (at least 2 high successfully).

[bangerjim]

Naww, I have a drawer full of molds, hundreds and all work the same. I have no notebook. It is feel as you cast. It is experience, nothing measured by time. It is like Star Wars, feel the dark side!
Getting it right is instant. It is the flow of nature.
Best to buy pure tin or find some old 50-50 body solder. Solder is way too costly. I used to get 1# bars of tin for $4 but it has gone up. Midway usually has it even though I hate to buy from them.
Go online and you can find it much cheaper.

Sounds like me! I do not use a thermometer or controller and cast perfect boolits. It is all experience, voodoo, patience, and mabe a little luck of the Irish?

Preheat the mold to FULL CASTING TEMP, not 500 or 600F, on an electric hotplate. Works miracles! And you can pre-heat your feed ingots also! Saves melt re-cycle time

As said watch the freeze-over time of the sprue.

I water drop all my boolits to just cool them off. I listen for that sharp sizzle when they hit the water. No or hardly any sizzle and you are too cold. A steam "explosion" and you are too hot. Only time and experience will let you know the sound you are listening for.

I only go buy expereince and setting my 4-20 dial to ~6.5....Works every time. Mabe I just hold my mouth right?!?!?!?!?

Good luck figuring out your casting routine. But 675 is too cold for your pot pour lead.

bangerjim

[geargnasher]

Actually, 675 is NOT too cold at all for an alloy that melts at 575, but it will likely make smaller bullets. Sometimes we NEED to do that, as in getting a fat bore rider to chamber in a certain rifle.

General pot temperature rule for any alloy has been described in books since the invention of cast bullet manuals: 100 degrees above full liquidus. Give or take depending on exactly what you need the alloy and mould to do. Using "the force" is fine if you have an unusual concentration of Midi-Chlorians, but for the rest of us, using a thermometer and the known constants of metal alloys is usually best for getting the same results every time. A notebook IS handy for this.

Bangerjim may not take a very scientific approach to his casting and yet it works for him, HOWEVER he doesn't post much about shooting cast in rifles for competition-grade accuracy or extremely high velocity. Consider the context of the advice given. For most pistol work, it really doesn't matter that much as long as you can cast a bullet with a good base. For other things, bullet quality and repeatable casting techniques matters a great deal. Context is always an important consideration when reading generalized advice.

Gear

[Bohica793]

I have my PID set for 675 and everything I am casting comes out silver and at or .001-.003 over stated mold size. The only time I have bad pours is when my mold gets too hot or cold. The PID has improved my casting consistency immensely.

[jmort]

I have mine set at 680 and if I preheat molds on hot plate it works well. Not too cold here in So Cal so not sure that would work in colder climates.

[prs]

I mostly cast pistol boolits and I go for volume. Perfect, well, they are very good. I have a very low cull rate. I have to adjust my PID depending upon how cool the outside air is as the fan brings it across my casting station, I like 710 on warm days and 730 if pretty cold. I do heat the mold on a hot plate and get it too hot on purpose, then let it cools as I do the preliminary casting before keeping the produce. I pace myself so as to keep the mold at point where the boolits are just slightly and evenly frosted, that seems to give me the best detail without under sizing the produce. With a 6 cavity aluminum mold, my first filled cavity is just freezing as the last pour is finished.


John Boy has me curious; a 5 second pour, on one cavity? Or is it 5 seconds to fill 4 or 6. Or is that a ladel fill of a large rifle boolit where the ladel is kept on for 5 seconds in the quest of casting boolits of perfection?

prs

[bangerjim]

Actually, 675 is NOT too cold at all for an alloy that melts at 575, but it will likely make smaller bullets. Sometimes we NEED to do that, as in getting a fat bore rider to chamber in a certain rifle.

General pot temperature rule for any alloy has been described in books since the invention of cast bullet manuals: 100 degrees above full liquidus. Give or take depending on exactly what you need the alloy and mould to do. Using "the force" is fine if you have an unusual concentration of Midi-Chlorians, but for the rest of us, using a thermometer and the known constants of metal alloys is usually best for getting the same results every time. A notebook IS handy for this.

Bangerjim may not take a very scientific approach to his casting and yet it works for him, HOWEVER he doesn't post much about shooting cast in rifles for competition-grade accuracy or extremely high velocity. Consider the context of the advice given. For most pistol work, it really doesn't matter that much as long as you can cast a bullet with a good base. For other things, bullet quality and repeatable casting techniques matters a great deal. Context is always an important consideration when reading generalized advice.

Gear

Exactly right. I do very little casting for uber-velocity/accuracy in rifles. Most of what I do is for paper target and plinking. I do not hunt. All my boolits squeeze thru my dies per the size I need for the barrels. Some go thru firmly, some squeek thru. All end up at the size I want, frosty or not. And I do not worry about weights that much, as I do little competitive shooting. I do my hunting at the meat markets or Outback or Ruth's Chris. Perfect targeting.....every time!!![smilie=w:

All my pills are sized, PC"d, and sized again to the correct dimention.

bangerjim

[44man]

I have no idea what my mold temp is actually. My little mold oven is made from an electrical box with a BBQ thermometer in the top and I heat soak with that at 500* so the mold could be hotter.
My first boolit will be perfect.
Since the mold sits on the bottom of the box on the coils, I have no real idea. I know it works.

[JeffG]

Clinton,

I get my tin ingots from Rotometals, which should be linked at the top of the webpage. If you buy $100 worth, you get free shipping. That amount will last a long time.


So any solder that says "lead free" is what I want? I know nothing about solder.

[10mmShooter]

I agree on the cool off period after filling the mold it can vary based on the alloy temp going into the mold and what temp the mold is at so you have to adjust your cool down time prior to dumping I watch how my sprue puddles cool and how the bases look as I drop them and adjust for more cool time or less you also have to watch the sprue plates they can get to hot as well and cause smears, I use a mix of RCBS, Saeco iron molds and a brass mold or two.

I do like my thermometer, I get best results in the 675 to 705 range, if I'm on the low end, I slow my pace to allow my Lyman Mag20 to recover, and if I'm on the high end , I throw more lead in the pot to cool the temp. So I'm always making subtle adjustments in my cadence or adding lead to the pot. I run the pot with the dial on 9.5 and never move it. Also I never never ever let the pot go below 70% full. Always keeping 15 ish pounds of lead in the pot at temp, helps the temp recover when new lead is added as well as keep the lead flow pressure the same at the spout. Just what I do.... your results may vary

Also I have learned over time casting not to fight a mold, you can try to play with alloy mix and temp to get a 1/1000th here or there but at the end of day the best thing is either have the mold modified or have a custom mold made that will work for you and your alloy.

I require all my molds to drop at least 2/1000ths over the dimension I'm sizing down to too, this allows the sizing die to do its thing and erase any defects in the bullet diameter. In some cases the mold will drop correctly right out of the box, in other cases I had to work on the mold a bit to get it to behave as I wanted it too. In one case my .44 Henry likes .432 sized bullets, so I needed a mold to drop at .433+ no choice here I had to order a custom mold. In other cases I can just enlarge the rear most driving band and the dimension I'm looking for.

[Ken O]

I have sharpie pen marks on my Lyman thermometer face for what where the molds drop right. They change, I think the thermometer has changed over time, because the marks are higher and higher.

My unscientific way to get the right temp, its to get it to frost, then back off just under the frost temp.

[Clinton]

Added 2% tin and took my temp up to 740. It's still dropping small, possibly even smaller. Rear driving bands mic at .308 and the nose is .298-.299. I'm really beginning to think it's just the mold. I was casting two different 312 Lee molds at the same time and they're coming out at .313. I could beagle it but I'm wondering if I'd run into problems seating gas checks then.

[rsrocket1]

I used my beagled C312-185-1R for the first time last night. Out of the box, it was dropping at .313 on the front bands and 0.314 on the rear bands. When I was seating the Hornady 30 cal GC's on them with the Lee push through sizer which was 0.314", the bottom half of the bottom band would come through shiny meaning it was the only part of the boolit that was >0.314".

After beagling with 2 strips of the copper foil tape stacked on top of each other on either side of the mold, the fat dimension of the boolits were 0.3175" and the narrowest diameter of the boolits were 0.315 so even the "non-beagled" dimension grew a bit. Pushing them through the sizer resulted in shiny surfaces on all bands and putting the gas checks on the fatter boolits was still no problem.

I was experimenting with temperatures anywhere from 650 to 750. I also experimented with varying methods of heating up the mold from my usual dipping the corner in the melt until the lead no longer stuck to dipping a big section of the mold for a very long time (until I was convinced the mold was almost the same temperature as the melt. That resulted in some interesting pours. When I cut the sprue and tipped the mold over to drop it into the pot, molten lead poured out of the cavity. I won't be heating the mold that much again.